Principles of Overlanding: Truck Camper vs. Trailer vs. Expedition Vehicle vs. Van

Guest Bio:

Bryon Dorr

Bryon Dorr, an outdoor and automotive marketing expert, editorial writer, and photographer, has dedicated his career to adventure travel. After spending a decade in the outdoor industry, he lived on the road full-time for nearly eight years, exploring North America in custom expedition vehicles. Following a seven-year stint in Portland, Oregon, Bryon returned to full-time travel in 2025 with his wife and daughter. Today, he manages his personal project, Exploring Elements, while providing consulting, marketing, and photography services for automotive and outdoor brands. With content created for over 50 clients and 34 magazine covers to his name, Bryon is most proud of his extensive international travel, having visited over 30 countries across the globe.

Scott Brady

Scott is the executive publisher and co-founder of Expedition Portal and Overland Journal and is often credited with popularizing overlanding in North America. His travels by 4WD and adventure motorcycle span all seven continents and include three circumnavigations of the globe. His polar expeditions include two vehicle crossings of Antarctica and the first long-axis crossing of Greenland. @scott.a.brady

Year Two of The Big Thing Is On!

Matt Scott

Matt is a leading expert in automotive adventure. He has extensively explored the world’s most remote places by 4WD and is considered an industry authority on overland travel. He is the only American to ever become an editor of a major Australian 4WD publication and has over 15 years of competitive auto racing experience. @mattexplore

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Transcript

Matt: [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to the Overland Journal Podcast. I’m your host, Matt Scott, with my good buddies Scott Brady, co-host, and Bryon Dorr is here. There’s actually not two people that I talk to more in the world than these two, so this should be a good one. Today we are talking about choosing your, home on wheels for overlanding.

So we’re gonna be talking about truck campers, expedition vehicles, vans, trailers, basically everything that you can live inside. We have Bryon here with us, who’s kind of done all of these different things, and we’re really excited to have you here.

Bryon : Yeah, yeah. Let’s do it. Yeah.

Scott: Yeah, thanks for being on the podcast, Bryon.

I I’ve known you a long time, and I remember, you know, you started off with a van. Yep. You moved on to a custom camper that you helped design and bring to market. You know, you’ve, you’ve had, uh, vehicles that you built out with roof tents. You’ve done the whole spectrum. [00:01:00] Um, so I think it-

Bryon : No roof tents in my adventure.

Scott: Never a roof t-

Bryon : never a roof- I have lived in a rooftop tent for a month- I- … in Mexico, but it wasn’t mine, and I’ve never had one- … on any of my vehicles. I just wanna keep that record straight.

Scott: Okay. That’s good to know. That’s good to know. Bryon

Matt: Dorr doesn’t like roof tents.

Scott: Yeah. I mean, there’s- Matt,

Bryon : Matt said it.

Matt: You didn’t deny it.

Bryon : I didn’t.

Scott: Maybe we start off with, uh, the truck camper. It’s, it’s the more common… You know,

Matt: it’s, it’s got- Yeah. I think it’s also a little underrated. Like, I think the van thing has kind of, taken everybody by storm, so to speak, but the truck campers are really… Like, they’re really convenient.

Like, you still get, like, a vehicle that you can use on a day-to-day basis. Yeah. Run into town, you know, move your friend’s couch.

Scott: Mm.

Matt: Um, and then you put the camper in the back. Like, you’ve got the Scout. Which Scout do you have?

Scott: It’s the Yoho pop-up, and I’ve… I had a full-size Scout as well.

Matt: Oh, yeah, on your GMC.

Scott: On the GMC. I like having a pickup. For- Yeah … for North America travel, I prefer a pickup- [00:02:00] Yeah … ’cause I use a pickup every day here in Prescott, and the truck camper allows me to take it off in about 15 minutes. Mm-hmm. Uh, it’s really easy to take on and off if I’ve got someone helping me out. Yeah.

So that’s what I like about it, is the fact that, especially if you start off with a full-size one-ton or three-quarter-ton truck, you got plenty of payload.

Matt: Yeah.

Scott: You can get a lot more capability than you can get out of a Sprinter van, for example. So you can have a much more capable platform and then it’s kind of a jack of all trades.

I can take the camper off the back and haul my motorcycle.

Matt: Yeah, and also just talking about the base vehicle, like I don’t think that there is a vehicle for sale in North America that is more refined than the pickup truck. Like, this is the land of the pickup truck. Like, it is the most competitive segment for the big three.

Scott: Yeah.

Matt: It is the moneymaker for the big three. It is the thing that they have the most uh, you know, initiative and reasoning to put the engineering behind. Um, they’re generally very reliable. They have to be. Mm-hmm. I mean, [00:03:00] people rely on these things, you know- A lot

Scott: of business

Matt: gets done in pickups, yeah

to, to do work, right? I mean, yeah, there’s like the nice version of these things, the, the Lariats, the King Ranches, all of that kinda stuff, but, you know, America is built off the back of a pickup truck, and I think, man, for North America, like- Yeah … it’s a really underrated thing. Like, I’ve been looking at these four-wheel campers- Yeah

has been a, a thing. I, I always like to stress how much more affordable a lot of these options can be when you look used.

Bryon : Yeah.

Matt: And four-wheel campers now, like f- a $15,000 budget for a four-wheel camper, like you can healthily get, it’s gonna be 10 years old, but, you know, you don’t ever wanna buy anything that was advertised by somebody with, “I lived on the road with this,” ’cause there’s like-

8 million ones that sat in a garage somewhere. Mm-hmm, sure.

Scott: And never got used.

Matt: Yeah, buy one of those. You know, but by the time you buy the roof tent that Bryon hates, the roof rack that you have to put on top of it, the fridge, the, everything to, to build out your setup, a lot of that just comes in a, in a, in a four-wheel camper.

[00:04:00] You use it, you do whatever you want, and you sell it, and I don’t know, you probably aren’t gonna lose much money on it.

Bryon : Slide in truck campers have been around for a long time, and they create a massive amount of advantages. The big one being you can have a truck and you can have a expedition vehicle really quick, and you can switch it, like you were saying.

True. 15 minutes, just swap it out. It allows you to have both. I think we were talking about a van. A van is a little less so. When they’re built out, it’s a van you live in, right? Some of them are more configurable than others, but with the truck camper, you have that base truck. Most of trucks in the US market are kinda meant for industrial or wo- doing work, and then they’re tarted up to make it- Yeah

for the consumer with all the fancy electronics and big screens and all the things, and that’s the stuff that goes wrong with them. The drivetrains and the, the, uh, the rest of the trucks generally hold up really well all the way across the board.

Matt: Hmm. Do you… How do I say this? I just completely lost my train of thought.

Bryon : Hmm.

Matt: I’m sorry. What did you put [00:05:00] in your Liquid Death? I didn’t put anything in my Liquid Death.

Bryon : Yeah, I mean, we don’t- Well- We don’t wanna go down the rabbit hole here as to which truck to buy- Yeah … because I’ve owned one of at least each. I know both of you have had a variety of pickup trucks as well, and they all have their pros and cons.

Like, every- Totally … has its own thing. But- Well, well this is an

Matt: area we agree on. Like, I really like- Yeah, sure … the, the RAM stuff. Um, they have ample payload. I think they’re probably the best performers off-road: solid axles front and rear, coil sprung front and rear, availability of Leafs. Like, you have a 3500.

Yeah. I have a 2500. But you have a Quartermaster. And, uh- The

Scott: new Po- the new Power Wagon diesel too. I mean, it’s like- Dual lockers on a full-size truck. I mean, it’s just- And- That’s pretty rad …

Matt: and if you wanna go international with these things, they have now fantastic, petrol gas versions- Mm.

Scott: They do

Matt: Of the vehicle. And they’re cheaper, and they often have more payload as well because the engines are considerably lighter. The diesels in these big trucks- Mm … you know, with the SCR and DPF systems, they do get a little touchy in certain environments if you’re- Oh, yeah, for sure … if you’re just [00:06:00] in Europe and you’re running on, European ultra-low sulfur diesel, you’re fine.

But, um, you know, Bolivian diesel’s not gonna agree with your DPF. I

Bryon : mean, you definitely have to have the vehicle for the environment that you’re gonna go do. There’s on- in my opinion, there’s very few vehicles that are really true worldwide overland vehicles. Like we were talking about, and we both have diesel Rams.

Here in the US, it’s perfectly fine. Yeah. It’s gonna be g- North America in general, like, that truck will just do the job. Sure. Even in Mexico these days, like, it’s really- Totally … not a big deal.

Scott: Totally.

Bryon : So, um, it does everything I need it to do for the adventures I have planned here in North America.

Scott: So this was interesting.

There was that, uh, trip that just went down West Africa where they tried to beat the record of- Oh … of g- doing the west coast of Africa. And they they had ultra-low sulfur diesel Grenadiers. Interesting. And all they needed was 1,000 kilometers of range, and they made it all the way down, going from big city to big city.

Matt: Hmm.

Scott: Oh, interesting. ‘Cause you figure in the cities, all the bureaucrats, they [00:07:00] want the new Beamers, and they want the new Mercedes- Yeah … or whatever that’s got the ultra-low sulfur diesel. So if you’re remote, even in West Africa, you have a problem. But as soon as you can get into a bigger city, you can get ultra-low sulfur diesel.

So it’s less of an issue. Like Sudan, still a problem. Bolivia is still a problem. Sure. But it’s becoming less and less common.

Matt: Yeah, and I c- and I think it’s important to focus on this, I guess, at the start of the podcast because all of the subsequent vehicles that we’re talking about, this does apply to.

Oh, for sure. We’re gonna kinda transition to expedition vehicles and vans and, well, what are you towing a, a trailer with? Most likely a truck.

Scott: Yep.

Matt: You know, um, for people that are listening in, in, you know, in North America. Even overseas, I think you can have a Hilux or something that you wanna tow with.

But, um, I mean, what’s your, what’s your favorite truck camper that’s on the market right now, Bryon?

Bryon : Ooh, favorite truck camper. So, like, slide in or-

Matt: Slide in …

Bryon : pop

Matt: up? Yeah …

Bryon : slide in truck

Matt: camper. Or f- or f- or flatbed

Bryon : Yeah, man, that’s tough. I mean, flatbeds opens it up a little bit. Um, the AT Atterra’s really [00:08:00] rad for, I

They have both, but the flatbed specifically with the amount of volume that has- Mm-hmm … and the layout I really like. Um, the Scout stuff is really good. I mean, it’s built well. It’s a good price point. I think they’re really configurable, I think, which is a great point of those. Um, man, the, uh-

Matt: Did you look at those Supertramps?

Bryon : That’s what I was just gonna say, a Supertramp. So I have experienced one of those for a long weekend. Amazing campers. Like they’re- Yeah … really well-built. Um-

Scott: And huge inside. I was shocked by the space- Massive amount of room. Yeah … the space efficiency of it. They did a good job of, like, not adding too much junk inside- Yeah

that made it feel small. Yeah.

Bryon : And the material choices and everything in those are really, really good. Some of the cabinets are metal, and I don’t know if I love that choice. In some ways they’re a l- like a little bit loud on the, on the … And the touch, like, the feel of it wasn’t as good as maybe composites or some other thing, or wood on the inside.

But everything, uh, else about that camper I really liked. Really liked

Scott: the layout. And then there’s a Canadian one. What’s that? Overland Explorer Vehicles?

Matt: OEV. OE- Yeah. Yeah. Those seem to be, like, just a [00:09:00] I’m not gonna, you know, poo-poo a four-wheel camper, but they seem to be, like, a better four-wheel camper.

They’re considerably more expensive than a four-wheel camper. That’s the downside. They’re

Scott: very expensive.

Matt: They’re very well insulated.

Bryon : Yeah, four-season is better on those than a lot of others.

Matt: Yeah, like, I think if you were, if you were going to be doing some cold weather travel, those and, like, the Supertramp look really fascinating to me.

Scott: Yeah, I think for that real serious international stuff, that seems to be one of the better options. That’s what

Matt: Richard or Ashley have- Yeah,

Scott: and they’ve

Matt: had- … for their trip right now.

Scott: And I’ve, I’ve grilled them on it because I, y- we need to know. Like, we need to be able to express, like, how are th- And they’re like, “We’ve had no troubles with this thing.”

Matt: I, I’ve been talking to my wife, Laura, about a truck camper for a future trip, maybe the Stands, and I think the biggest thing she has against it, and I’m gonna say myself, is they’re just not sexy.

Bryon : Mm.

Matt: I mean, not that it necessarily matters, right? Like- Of course it

Scott: does.

Matt: Yeah. But it, but it does.

Like, you- I know. You want

Bryon : to look back at your vehicle and go- Yeah, of course … “Oh, that one’s mine.” That’s cool, right? A-

Matt: and [00:10:00] it’s like when I look back at, like, a, you know, what I should buy is I should just get a four-wheel camper and throw it on the back and, and, and go because, you know, y- y- you land back in the US, and you could sell it within 24 hours in whatever port city you landed in.

That’s right. Right? That’s right. If you didn’t want to keep it. Like, they’re very dis- I don’t want to say disposable, as in like-

Scott: Transactional.

Matt: Transactional, right. Yeah, for sure. Uh, I just, just move on with it. But the S- the Supertramp is the only one that I’ve seen where I’m like, “Oh, that looks good.”

They do look good. They do some color matching. They have some interesting colors. Automotive quality finishes. Yeah. Yeah.

Bryon : They’re built really well, too. I’ve been in that factory as well, and they’re really interesting the way they do it, and they seem to be really doing it right and doing, uh, process improvement all the time and that kind of thing.

And not all manufacturers are doing that, obviously.

Scott: They’re a neat, small, family-run business. A- And they really care.

Matt: Yeah So… as a company- Mm … I do wanna shout out Supertramp. Like, they are, you know, they just came out with an Expedition vehicle that’s, like, on an F-350- Mm-hmm … which I think is, it’s what everybody’s been asking for, but just I think [00:11:00] margins and price point, no one’s really been able to deliver.

Mm. You know, I, I wish these guys the best. Like, they’re doing some really, really cool stuff, and I think, I think more people should pay attention. A, an interesting… Oh, go on, sorry.

Bryon : Yeah, I think going back to your sexy comment about making it look sexy, I think there’s kind of two ways to do that with a truck camper.

One is to n- uh, the n- the way not to do it is add every accessory known to man hanging off the sides and everywhere else. I think you keep it simple. Which is way too easy to do. But also matching the camper with the truck, not necessarily color. I mean, that’s cool, but a lot of campers just don’t look right on certain trucks.

Like, they have to fit right on the truck. Mm. Be the right height above the bed rails as well as the right height over the cab. Yeah. So it still all functions and you’re not getting rubbing, but it looks right. Some of them just, you’re like, “That camper doesn’t belong with that truck.” And that-

Matt: Like, Prospectors get really weird.

Right. Like, there’s certain flatbeds-

Bryon : Mm

Matt: Like, I mean, I’ll just say it, like the PCOR flatbed when you put a, a four-wheel camper on the back. There’s like three feet that’s [00:12:00] really tall I’m exaggerating, but it’s, it’s, it’s-

Bryon : Foot and a half, it’s a lot … you

Matt: know, there’s a lot that you can do with that space, but I, I do get your point.

I mean, that would be a great setup, right? It’d be- Yeah … like go down the road like a, badada camper. Those

Bryon : are good equipment, but that’s the other angle that I say to make it sexy is do the flatbed.

Matt: Yeah.

Bryon : And not all flatbeds are created equal, obviously. Um, but do a, a proper flatbed that gets your center gravity low and gets that fit properly on whatever platform you’re doing so the cab over kind of goes away with the truck.

Yeah,

Matt: there’s, there’s definitely flatbeds meant for campers- Yeah … and there’s flatbeds meant to be-

Bryon : Sure …

Matt: flatbeds. Ranch trucks. They’re optimized for angles- Yeah. Yeah, that’s a good point … and, and, and departure and things like that.

Scott: You’re, it’s really easy to get over payload with those flatbeds because they give you a lot more storage.

Matt: Yeah.

Scott: So people tend to just like, fill up the available space. I, I would say like from my perspective, since I am a truck camper owner, like for me, I just like the fact that it’s, I can reconfigure the vehicle very quickly. The cost of entry is fairly low. Like, [00:13:00] even a really nice Kenai Scout is about 38,000 bucks.

Bryon : Yeah.

Scott: Whereas you can get… Supertramps get up into the 50s and 60s. Four-wheel campers- Yeah … you can find used in the 10 to 15 range. Four-wheel campers also need to be, part of the discussion ’cause they, they’ve been doing it a very long time. Yeah. They’re a great price point, uh, made in the United States.

They just have only recently been really updating stuff. Yeah. So like they have their new camp out which has a f- a more of a smooth sided finish so it looks a little more modern. It’s a lot more configurable on the inside. Uh, but they’ve got a bunch of different options, so you can even get them just as a shell which- Right

you know, I’ve always thought was cool.

Matt: Yeah. Yeah, and, and it is worth noting kind of the wedge camper thing, but we’re not, we’re not really talking about that. I think the wedge camper is a great roof tent alternative.

Um, my, my problem with them having built one is you end up spending truck camper money [00:14:00] To arguably have less.

Like maybe there’s a little bit of

Scott: a weight savings,

Matt: but then- Oh, I’m sure there’s a weight savings, yeah … but then you, you know, you’re doing, you still have to do the battery systems, and you’re still trying to find a way to mount all of this stuff, and then you can’t take it out. You know, you can, you can easily spend, you know, 7 to $15,000 on the wedge camper, and you don’t have anything inside of your truck yet.

Bryon : I think you can easily make a wedge camper into a truck camper, essentially- Yeah … and spend similar money. But I think a wedge camper, the benefit is you can do it the other way and do a backpacker setup essentially inside- Yeah … at whatever comfort level you want, and really configure it and keep it light and nimble and smaller footprint and shorter height and all- Mm-hmm

those things that allow it to be a more trail-ready vehicle than- Yeah … a really loaded down truck camper. Like- Yeah … you start getting in a situation, especially on the East Coast- Totally agree … where they fit down trails. Yeah. Like, it

Matt: gets- Definitely.

Bryon : I-

Scott: Yeah, don’t, don’t make things something that they’re not.

Matt: Yeah.

Scott: Right. If it’s a wedge camper, keep it as a wedge camper. They’re great. [00:15:00] They’re great when they’re

Matt: simple.

Scott: Don’t, don’t try to make it into a truck camper. Yeah. If you want a truck camper, buy a truck camper.

Bryon : I’d argue, though, there’s, again, it’s, it’s use case. So if you want a small, nimble vehicle that’s super capable off-road, and that’s your goal is to go to those really hard places, and say you’re solo traveling or a couple, a wedge camper with a proper low center of gravity, batteries, water, all the things in the bed, at the same price point, is maybe a better option than a truck camper.

Hmm. As long as you as a couple or your traveling partners are okay with losing some of the luxuries you might get in a truck camper. Yeah. The space to stretch out, the, uh, the nicer toilet that’s separate from the sleeping area. Mm-hmm. That kind of thing.

Matt: Yeah. To transition a little bit into our next thing, those enduro campers-

Bryon : Mm-hmm

Matt: where they actually replace, like, the whole bed, there is no flatbed.

Scott: Oh.

Matt: Those are really interesting. They’re … I think they’re about, they’re a little over 100 grand. Um, but I see those on, like, you know, Ram chassis, and those look super cool.

Bryon : Yeah, [00:16:00] for sure.

Matt: Yeah.

Scott: That’s interesting, though, ’cause if it’s 100 grand and you’re 40 grand into a used truck-

Matt: Yeah

Scott: like lightly used truck, 50 grand into a lightly used- It’s

Matt: definitely like a van alternative.

Scott: Yeah, that’s interesting.

Matt: Um, you know, they’re, they’re nicely finished inside. They’re pop tops. Um, they just, like aesthetically, they kinda match the vehicle. Um, I think that those are, those are definitely worth, you know, a look.

Like, if you’re not quite, if you want a little bit more than a truck camper, but you’re not quite in, like, the expedition vehicle, you know, segment, ’cause they just the price just skyrockets from there, right? Um, I mean, the next things we’re gonna talk about, they go, you know, a million dollars is not like a, an unusual figure to- Yeah

to hear for some of them. Those are definitely worth a look. And people travel in them. Like, I see, there’s a couple, couples that I follow, and Man, they’re beating the crap out of those things, aren’t they?

Scott: Do you guys think it’s worth any of these options if it doesn’t have some of those [00:17:00] luxuries? Like, in my mind, like why spend so much money and have so much weight if it doesn’t have a shower, if it doesn’t have a toilet, if it doesn’t have…

i’d be curious what you guys think. I think I’ve seen some very expensive, very complex builds- Yeah … and they still gotta go poop in the woods. I- Yeah … does it make sense to you guys to have

Matt: I think a lot of influencers prioritize, like, these big, dumb electrical systems that are insanely complicated over everything ’cause they get free stuff from companies, and you don’t need it.

Like the 1,200 amp hours of battery in the back of a, of a wedge camper is useless if you’re in a, you know, at a Guatemalan truck stop and your wife still has to use that toilet.

Scott: Yeah.

Matt: I think you do have to prioritize some of the livability ’cause I think that’s really what you’re getting, like you’re saying.

Like-

Scott: I, yeah, I wouldn’t even… even in my, that tiny little Scout- Yeah … I have a way to take a shower, and I have a composting toilet in there.

Matt: Like, I have a way to- I could hear- … air

Scott: condition it. I have a way to heat it.

Matt: I don’t know if showers are, like, [00:18:00] as essential, ’cause then you have to have, like, a lot of water.

Scott: Mm.

Bryon : Yeah.

Matt: You can kinda clean your pits and your bits-

Scott: Yeah …

Matt: in, in the privacy of the space.

Bryon : So as

Matt: someone that li- I think a toilet’s essential …

Bryon : so as someone that lived in a truck camper and built a custom truck camper for, uh, expedition truck-like thing, truck camper, for a long time, um, I didn’t have a shower.

I had an outside shower- Yeah … built in, and I didn’t have huge volume of water capacity. I think I had 30 gallons or something. It wasn’t- Mm. Which is enough to live on. But again, it j- it just depends on where who you’re traveling with and what your threshold is for luxury what you need. Like, I definitely, even today, like a hot shower that you can just stand under for a long period of time is a huge luxury.

Like, that’s so amazing.

Matt: Mm.

Bryon : Uh, that and Wi-Fi were the two things I always said when I lived on the road full time that, like, are the ultimate luxuries. They’re just- Yeah,

Matt: and Wi-Fi- You don’t always have it … is so easy now.

Bryon : Now it, now it doesn’t matter. We all have- Yeah … Starlink, right? And it just is what it is.

It’s the only player in the, in that space right now. But yeah, I mean, I spent a lot of money on that build, and it [00:19:00] had a cartridge toilet.

Scott: Yeah.

Bryon : And it just, I made a space for that and had planned that into the build. Uh, I think it’s really key to have a toilet in the, in the rig. Like it, like especially if you’re going full time and/or sampling lots of food from all over the world, like you- Yeah,

Scott: you’re gonna get sick

Bryon : you need a toilet.

Scott: Yeah, you’re gonna get sick. And, and yeah. And you’re gonna be so glad you have it. And also, we have a responsibility as travelers. If we can reduce our impact- Yeah … if we can, if there can be one less cat hole that we dig- Sure … outside of Moab, I think that’s a good thing. Because, like,

Matt: there’s a lot of people that go through these places.

Like, you know, New Zealand has the self-contained certification for- Mm-hmm … camper vans. Like, in a lot of places they have to have this self-contained certification, ’cause you just think the volume. 365 days a year somebody’s camping in that spot. Now, normally, maybe you d- you can’t tell that, and that’s good because it’s been, it’s been, you know, good land stewardship.

But- I, I think there’s a … People need to probably start packing out the poo.

Scott: Yeah.

Matt: For [00:20:00] sure.

Scott: Yeah. And it’s super simple now. They got great … Like, I use this little Treleeno toilet that’s- Mm. Like, it’s super tiny. Yeah. And it fits in the Scout. And then there’s a, Wanderful is the name of the company that makes the shower.

It’s a, it’s like a little foldable shower pan and a curtain that hangs from the roof.

Matt: Yeah.

Scott: And I have a Nemo shower that I put- Yeah … some hot water in. You got everything you need. And it’s like, it’s a surprising luxury to, like – Yeah.

Matt: Ren Oosthuik from OK4WD- Mm-hmm … loves those Rap-on toilets. Yeah. Swears by them.

Yeah. He, he has one in his new, his new Grenadier pop-top build. They’re

Bryon : really nice.

Matt: Those look really cool.

Bryon : They’re really nice. They’re- ‘

Matt: Cause you can just throw it in the garbage. Yeah.

Bryon : Yeah, they’re very expensive. They seal each, uh, use in a single seal package, which is great ’cause you have no smells at all.

Matt: Yeah.

Bryon : Which is amazing. But each, uh, like, it’s special plastic, and it, you gotta pay for that. So you’re buying- Yeah … it’s a lot upfront, and it’s a lot each use, is the only problem with those. Otherwise, they’re awesome. Yeah. Like, they’re really good. The other thing I do that’s [00:21:00] similar is I always have a couple Wag Bags around.

Like, I’ve, I’ve done self-support in the Grand Canyon and stuff like that, and you literally have to pack out your poop. So, um, having a Wag Bag in the glove box of the truck and, uh, in the back door card of, uh, like in the cup holder on every vehicle I’ve ever had- Yeah,

Scott: that’s smart. That’s a good

Bryon : idea … you, you just have it ’cause then you can always pack it out no matter s- u- how, what your access is to a toilet.

Like, in my Lexus GX 460 kind of overlanding rig, I can sleep inside, but no toilet in it. Yeah. But I have those Wag Bags always handy so you don’t have to dig a cat hole-

Scott: Yeah …

Bryon : if, especially if you’re sick or whatever. You always have an option. Like-

Matt: Yeah, and I think, like, moving into the expedition vehicle stuff, that’s where those vehicles start to be a little bit more fully featured.

Scott: Oh, yeah. For

Matt: sure. You know? I mean, if you don’t have a bathroom, shower, sink, pretty considerable water storage, you know, you’re, you’re, you’re really starting to blend, like, some of the movability and the portability and maneuverability of a truck camper with the benefits of, like, an RV, right? They sit somewhere in the middle, you know.

Yeah. Usually higher [00:22:00] quality than an RV.

Bryon : Usually …

Matt: usually. That s- that segment’s really expanding right now. I mean- A lot of competition … as we sit here, like a couple days ago, Winnebago-

Bryon : Yep.

Matt: Um, and I’m not gonna poo-poo that, the, the- No … A- Arkra? Arka. Arka.

Bryon : A-R-K-A, I believe.

Matt: A-R-K-A. Yeah. It looks interesting. It’s like

Scott: 300- They sell a lot of Revel vans, too.

Matt: And, and the thing with the Revel is, kind of the, the van hipsters owe at first, “Oh, we don’t, we don’t like it. We don’t like it.” But every generation they just improved that vehicle. So it’s interesting to see. I think Winnebago really is, seems to balance, um- the needs of everyone quite well.

You know? I mean, there’s always gonna be the Earth Roamers, the Truck Houses, the Bliss Mobiles, that kind of stuff. But, you know, those they have these doors that open at the back, so throwing mountain bikes uh, or whatever in the back, even if you’re just storing the vehicle or parking somewhere.

They’re

Bryon : being smart about a few of the innovative features on that new Arca, for [00:23:00] sure. The rear huge, like, kind of ambulance doors or whatever that come off the back, and then the dinette is huge, and you can really adjust, uh, that space. You can take out basically the whole rear dinette area, and that can be storage for motorcycles, bicycles- Oh, wow.

Oh, wow … kayaks, all that.

Matt: Yeah.

Bryon : So that’s pretty cool. They have a couple other things I’m not so sure on. Yeah,

Matt: like we were talking about the bathroom- Yeah … it’s, like, midship.

Scott: Mm.

Matt: But it ha- You know, it’s kind of like the EarthCruisers were, where EarthCruiser, when you walked in the door, your entranceway was the shower pan- Yes

and toilet. Turn, yeah, for sure.

Bryon : Which I think

is

Scott: awesome.

Matt: Yeah. That, that’s interesting. They’ve-

Scott: Clever use of space that has to be there regardless.

Bryon : Right. They’ve- Like mudroom, right? Right

Matt: away. Yeah. They’ve put it in the entrance to the bed. Mm. And there’s like a curtain that you slide to keep your, that’s supposed to keep your sheets and everything from getting wet, and then there’s another curtain on the other side.

And the toilet-

Bryon : And it’s sort of transparent- …

Matt: slides

Bryon : out … the one that comes to the back, which is kind of odd.

Matt: Yeah, like

Bryon : it- So the privacy, like, for people going to the bathroom. It’s

Matt: still a lot of mon- you know, when [00:24:00] you think of, a, a, a Revel, which is gonna effectively be about half the price of this thing, that has a, a, a, an enclosed toilet space, which-

Scott: It’s got

Matt: a full wet bath

like I, I have to say, like, I, like I kinda want that. Like, I think that, I’m, I hope they do well with it, but I would just never consider a pull-out toilet. I mean, I saw when they, in, in their video, as they, like pushed it back in, it’s like wobbling on the, on like the, the sliders. The rails. The rails.

Sure. And I’m like, “Oh man,” like there’s-

Bryon : We’ll, we’ll, we’ll give it to them. That was, that’s probably a prototype. Prototype. And we’re ju- that’s early. But we haven’t seen, touched the thing yet. We’ll touch it at Overland Expo, see

Scott: what it’s all about. Yeah, yeah. Um- But isn’t that, that’s the argument for the expedition camper.

I think, I think there’s two things that people look at. They can buy a, an industrial chassis. Yeah. So they, some people view that as a, as a benefit. And then the other, the other benefit is that you’re getting closer to RV level comfort, um, which is gonna be [00:25:00] a full, uh, dr- dry or hopefully dry bath.

Sometimes a wet bath.

Matt: Yeah.

Scott: Um, but that’s really what people seem to be buying when they get a expedition camper, is that level of comfort. Not a week goes by that someone doesn’t reach out to ask how, uh, they can help support the podcast. Uh, we are, uh, supported entirely by Overland Journal, the magazine.

So when you become a subscriber to the Overland Journal print magazine, you get this beautiful book, uh, that comes in five times a year. It also gives you access to our digital archive. And it’s well over 100 pages of, of gorgeous images and detailed testing and adventures from around the globe. So if you go to overlandjournal.com and you subscribe to the magazine, use the code OVERLANDPODCAST, and that’ll get you 20% off.

It’s only available to our podcast listeners. We don’t advertise it anywhere else. And then you help us to maintain that independent employee-owned [00:26:00] journalism, um, that we have been famous for. So it allows us to conduct those tests without any advertorial. Another way you can help out too, I produced a book, uh, last year with Simon & Schuster called Overlanding 101.

You can find it on Amazon or Barnes & Noble or even your local bookstore. And that encompasses my decades of travel around the world, all of my mistakes and failures and, and the lessons that I’ve learned in traveling around the globe. Um, many of those, um, that you hear on the podcast have been distilled down into print form with great lists and beautiful imagery.

Uh, so you can find that, uh, at your local bookstore. Overlanding 101. And thank you all for listening and for supporting us so much throughout these years.

Matt: I think that-

Scott: You make an important point. I think we- that’s what people need to hear is, like, b- first of all, be honest why you’re buying this thing.

Right. A lot of people buy very expensive expedition vehicles because it says something about them. It’s … What a way to signal wealth-

Matt: Yeah …

Scott: than, like, this giant, [00:27:00] like-

Matt: Ego on wheels …

Scott: ego on wheels, right? But there’s a lots of people who don’t buy it for that reason. Yeah. So I want to acknowledge that too.

There’s lots of … I’ve met many, like n- I mean, I’ve never

Matt: met one.

Scott: Myself included. I’ve met a lot of EarthRoamer owners that loved travel in their truck- Yeah … and they could care less. But they do want to have the comfort. They wanna be able to live in this thing full time.

Matt: Yeah.

Scott: But that’s the advantage.

Matt: Yeah. And then the way you were talking about the truck camper of, like, there’s kind of some basics you need to have in the truck camper I do think when you’re spending that kind of money, there are just some creature comforts and, like- Solidity to those creature comforts- Yeah … that you expect. Like, I personally just want, I want an actual shower room.

Scott: Yeah.

Matt: You know, I want some decent storage, um, some drawers, that kind of thing, because you really can live out of these things comfortably long time. Like, that is the goal. You know, the, you drive to Pan Am, you drive around the world, you drive [00:28:00] a- across Africa, whatever, whatever the dream is. Or maybe you’re just driving to Alaska or doing weekend trips.

I mean, that’s what we… We do weekend trips now. Yep. It’s fine. Yep. You know, not everything is a, is an expedition. But to be remote with the comforts, like Barry Andrus used to say. Yeah, for sure. Right? I said remote, I didn’t say comfortable.

Scott: Oh, he d- he said I said remote, not primitive.”

Matt: Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. But I mean, what’s your… What are the big players, I guess? I mean, you have EarthRoamer that arguably is- Sure … not the- OG … the, the OG- OG … in the space. Yeah, it’s OG. Like, they’re still around.

Bryon : They still make some of the larger, more luxurious ones o- of the class. Um, there’s ADV Mobile, who does kinda custom to the client, usually on F-550s, Ram 5500s- Yeah

um, some in- industrial chassis. Uh, they’re really cool, like- They’re Michigan based? Super insulated. They’re Michigan based,

Matt: yeah. Correct. I’ve looked at them. They’re, they’re a little industrial. Yeah.

Bryon : Um- It’s very, it’s very Euro style, for sure. Yeah. It’s kind of the you take the composite box and then you make it your own, make it what you want.

You can do the cab over or [00:29:00] not, or pop top or not. Most of them are hard sided, I believe, that they do.

Matt: Yeah.

Bryon : We obviously have kind of the new, newer player on the block, which is, uh, Truck House, and they’re killing it right now. I just went through their factory and, um, the AEV platform is amazing under it.

And then they’re just doing it right. They’re building it to another level of engineering that we haven’t really seen in this space in North America, at least. I know Euro Camper and Bliss are, um- trying to think. There’s a couple big ones in Europe that are really high-end, but, uh, Truck House is doing it right.

Like, that’s, they’re super cool.

Scott: And they’re not crazy expensive. They’re not cheap- No … but they’re not crazy expensive.

Bryon : No. Like, I think you could get, like, the nicest thing they sell for under 600.

Scott: Yeah, exactly.

Bryon : Which, which is a lot of money. Don’t get me wrong. Yeah Like, it’s out of my budget at the moment, but th- that’s an amazing value for the- I, I would-

quality of the product …

Scott: I would agree.

Bryon : Yeah.

Scott: Ross Monster does a cool- Yeah,

Bryon : very cool …

Scott: pop top.

Matt: The, yeah, the-

Bryon : Do

Matt: a pop … Baja is the one that I kinda have my eye on right now. It’s a hard-sided camper- Wow. Yeah … but it’s a hard-sided pop top. That’s

Scott: right.

Bryon : It’s the XL, right? The Baja [00:30:00] XL?

Matt: Yeah. Yeah. Well, there’s the XL, and there’s, like, the Trail.

I, I actually like the Trail because- Okay … I’m telling you, these, these big MPT tires just suck. Um- Yep … they’re they just add a lot of driver fatigue and, you know, they’re an, they’re an, they’re a necessity for the weight of a lot of these vehicles. We’ve, you know, we’ve, we’ve talked about this on the podcast before.

But yeah, those things are, like, interesting. They’re, they’re in, like, the mid-350s.

Scott: I think they’re cool.

Matt: I think- I think a lot of people are gonna start going from vans and looking at those.

Scott: And Ross Monster sells quite a few units.

Matt: Yeah.

Scott: Um, and then- They’re on RV lots … you know,

Matt: Adre-

Scott: Financing

Adrenaline’s another small, like, more boutique- Yeah … made, made in Utah. I’ve driven those trucks. Those are really… And, you know, the good family that runs it, they really-

Matt: Oh, Judd and his guys are just

Scott: so awesome. Yeah, they really, they really care about making-

Matt: The only guy that has worse vehicle ADD than me-

is the owner of Adrenaline Campers.

Scott: Yeah, totally. Th-

Matt: they’re really nice though. They super- I mean, honestly … they’re,

Scott: yeah, and they’re, and they’re very, they’re kind of, um, m- that more [00:31:00] industrial where they’re, they’re not gonna be fragile.

Matt: Yeah. Like, you can bring ’em a chassis and they- Yeah … they can build you something.

Mm-hmm. Um, you know, they have an F550. They have a Ram-based one. Yep.

Scott: Yep.

Matt: They’ll put ’em on a Unimog. Yep. Um, kinda similar to, like, the ADV Mobile. Yeah.

Bryon : Yeah, and you gotta bring it back, too, to Supertram, right? I mean, they got the Megatron now, which is- Yeah … a really rad, uh, rig.

Matt: Yeah.

Bryon : Well sorted. Similar price point, I’d say.

But- So

Scott: there’s a lot of options, which in my mind, it, it- Yeah … it’s good to come back to something that’s serialized. I think that you want to avoid We’ve all, all three of us have built some custom stuff- Yeah … and we’ve all paid the price. Fair. It’s just, like, it seems like a great idea.

Matt: Yeah, what, what would Scotty get?

Scott: Of those?

Matt: Of of… If you could have any expedition vehicle. I’m gonna ask everybody this question. I,

Bryon : I think before you, before you answer that, you gotta look at the, the e- expedition truck camper or expedition camper is such a wide range. So we kinda gotta categorize that a little bit is you kinda have, uh, one-ton trucks, right?

You have [00:32:00] the medium duty trucks, so, uh, F-550s, Ram 5500, stuff like that, chassis. And then you go up to bigger stuff like the Global Expedition Vehicle Epic- Yeah … which is on a International

Matt: Kenworth. Yeah. Yeah, you drove that Storyteller thing.

Bryon : This… Yeah. Yeah, Storyteller owns GXV now, so they built that.

It’s huge and awesome. Like, it’s actually way easier to drive than it looks. Yeah. Like, I got to enjoy it off-road. But it’s a mon- It’s a lot of truck. I mean, that thing is huge. Yeah. Like, it’s totally different than driving- This whole segment is blowing up … even an F-550.

Matt: Which I think is

Bryon : really,

Scott: really cool.

It real- it really is blowing up.

Bryon : It is.

Scott: To answer your question just, like, ’cause it’s important for us to be candid with our audience, I don’t think I want any of them.

I’ll take that 1150 BMW off-road. You know?

Bryon : He’s going the other way. I like it.

Scott: Okay. You know, I just, I just I think that a lot of times what ends up happening is, you know, I built the vehicle that was really ideal for me.

Yeah. So the Quartermaster is a pickup truck I can drive every day. It’s not too big. I kind of… It’s super funky, which I’m weird. I just, there’s… I like the payload of it. I like the fact that it’s solid axles. I [00:33:00] like the fact that it looks- Yeah … square and boxy and quirky. Well,

Matt: it’s so maneuverable.

It’s such a Scotty vehicle.

Scott: And then the Scout is simple. The Scout is a pop-up, so I can still put it in a container. I want that truck to be able to go anywhere in the world- Mm-hmm … tomorrow if I wanna stick it in a container. But, you know, the, the t- the pic- the expedition camper thing is absolutely fascinating to me.

Yeah. I love it.

Matt: I just- They’re a, they’re becoming a little RV adjacent, right?

Scott: I just don’t, I just don’t- Big time … I don’t see a need for me. Yeah. For me, it would be very difficult to- Says

Matt: the guy who actually travels.

Bryon : In an RV.

Scott: Well, I, I’m, I-

Bryon : Absolutely. But

Scott: when? Yeah, it would be very difficult for me to wanna travel- Yeah

in something big like that, so.

Matt: I mean, I have noticed-

In planning trips having one of these vehicles, you really have to consider where you’re going. Mm-hmm. I mean, you’re, you’re precluded from a lot of small towns. You’re precluded from anything. Yeah. You know, your risk profile just dr- just skyrockets quite quickly.

Scott: Yeah. Yep.

Matt: Yep. [00:34:00] Um,

Scott: yeah. We, we took one all the way down to, to Panama years ago, a, an EarthRoamer, a big one.

I was driving the small EarthRoamer, but we had a big EarthRoamer with us, and we had to have these lengths of PVC pipe to lift the- Wires, yeah … power lines, the power lines up and over it. It does, it ch- changes travel too much for my taste.

Matt: Yeah.

Scott: Uh, but I can see why people- It

Matt: compromises it, but

Scott: it’s worth it when you’re in camp

I can see why people, I can see why people love them, though, ’cause they’re also super comfortable.

Matt: Yeah.

Scott: And y- I think if you look at a guy like Sinway, Xavier, those that are listening, he, he’s been on the podcast a bunch of times. This guy is very minimalist, and he loves that Truck House.

Matt: Mm.

Scott: Like, he loves it so much I think he’s living in one right now.

Matt: Yeah.

Scott: So, uh, for him, it meets a lot of his needs, so that’s kinda cool. That-

Bryon : You should like them. You have one, right? Does all, do all the readers know exactly, or listeners know exactly what your what are your- I mean,

Matt: yeah. Like, I, I, I have an EarthRoamer. Like, I think if it wasn’t an EarthRoamer it’s gonna be, for me, I’d be looking at either a Bliss Mobile-

[00:35:00] Or I would be looking at the Truck House. Like, the Truck House is the really easy answer for me. Yeah. Like, it, it would be what translates to my life the most right now. Like, I like how simple it is. I like how that team has really analyzed, like, the failure modes of everything because, I mean, I’ve had one of these for almost six years now, and, and you definitely do think, uh, well, I do think that as you use them more, you realize they’re pretty reliable, the EarthRoamer.

We’ve never had anything on the EarthRoamer side really break. Ford side, yeah. You know, and some of that’s not necessarily Ford’s fault. But I like the Truck House. It’s very familiar.

Scott: Yeah.

Matt: But I look at Unimogs like a U500- Or a six … with a Bliss Mobile because you can invest, you can buy the, the camper, right?

And I like that they have a dry bath. I think that that’s pretty nice. I think that the space is used really well.

Scott: Yeah.

Matt: I don’t know if I want a cab over truck- Mm … necessarily, but you can take the asset, and you can put it on different vehicles. Chassis. Right? If you wanted to put it on a Ram 5500 for the US, you could do [00:36:00] that, and then literally put it into a container and have a chassis in Europe.

You know, I mean, that’s a little eccentric, right? But- I

Scott: wonder if anyone’s ever, ever done that. I mean-

Matt: My friend Colin has.

Scott: Okay.

Matt: Genuinely. Genuinely.

Scott: Okay, that’s cool. Yeah. Because I, I, you know, I’ve heard people have made that argument for 30 years of, like, why to get the container style camper, and I’m like, has anyone ev- ever actually done that?

Matt: Yeah, like full disclosure. Like taken it out. Like, I’m, I’m pretty good buddies with Spencer, who runs Bliss Mobile in the US, and he’s constantly doing this for, for people.

Scott: Okay, that’s cool.

Matt: Um- Right … like, it is something that people do.

Scott: Okay.

Matt: Um, it, yeah, like Colin bought his first- My buddy Colin bought his first.

It had a MAN chassis and he did all of Europe with it and then sent it to Canada, um, and- Just the box … just, no, the, the truck and the box. Yeah. And then the truck went back to, you know, traveled around Canada. Couldn’t get it into the US because, uh, US citizen- Yeah, sure … uh, uh, whatever the laws are. But the camper’s fine [00:37:00] so, they brought the camper across the border the right way, and then it went onto another truck.

Um- That’s cool.

Bryon : Yeah.

Matt: That’s cool. Yeah. I

Bryon : mean- And then we gotta talk, is that an expedition camper or is that just a truck camper? ‘Cause it literally bolts up to a flatbed- Oh, that’s an

Matt: ex- That’s an expedition camper. I’m

Bryon : just gonna throw it out there. I

Matt: think, I think the Bliss is, like, the definitive. If

Scott: you spend more than 100 grand on it, it’s an expedition.

Matt: Yeah, yeah. What, what would you have? Okay.

Bryon : Yeah, so for me it’s really tough. So I, if I’m- Like,

Matt: for your current situation with Kate and with sweet little Rose.

Bryon : Oh. I mean, current situation I, I went with a trailer and an RV, which we’ll get to in a little bit and it’s because I have a kid. So with three people, more than two people, I personally don’t think I wanna do an expedition truck.

Matt: It would get tight.

Bryon : It’d just be too tight for full-time, full-time with more than two people. With two people, expedition truck all the way, 100%. I wanna park in one single, like, spot and not have to detach a trailer and do all the stuff that trailers have to do, which we’ll get into. Um, so it’s a tough one for me.

The quick answer is, is [00:38:00] F-350 or a, um, one-ton truck chassis or smaller. I don’t wanna go bigger. I am like you, Scott, I don’t want… I want something I can get around and maneuver and take off-road. So

Matt: one-ton meaning, like, 3500

Bryon : An F-350 or a Ram-

Matt: Eight-foot bed kinda thing …

Bryon : sure, would be the long- Yeah

would be the biggest truck I would do. So- For me, Truck House is the, is the quick answer a million percent. A four-door Truck House, uh, AV on 40s, like that thing is just super capable. It’s maneuverable. I just drove one. It’s like so easy to drive, like highway, uh, back roads, whatever. The only downside to that truck for me and the way that I travel is I require multiple mountain bikes and multiple kayaks.

Where do you put kayaks on that thing? You have to build a custom rack on the back off a hitch or something and have it vertical. Mm-hmm. And I have some longer boats, so that starts limiting and changing how I travel, and that’s where I have a problem. So that’s where I’d start looking at either an ADV Mobile custom rig or a Ross Monster, uh, with the [00:39:00] pop top- Yeah, that makes sense

so I could get it just low enough to put racks on the top and put my long kayaks on stackers on the

Matt: roof.

Scott: Oh, yeah. That’s interesting. Yeah, that’s smart.

Bryon : Again, again, it’s use case. Like for me, travel is an amazing part of life, but I use it as a conduit to go do outdoor adventures. So whatever that is.

Kayaking is my passion, white water, but, um, kiteboarding, surf kayaking, mountain biking, rock climbing, and you gotta… I gotta have that gear with me. And so I gotta ha- whatever rig I have, I have to be able to shit in it. Yeah. I gotta be able to sleep in it comfortably. It has to get me over rough terrain, and it has to carry my gear.

Mm. If it doesn’t carry my gear, there’s no point.

Scott: Hmm.

Bryon : So it’s tough. So expedition vehicles, I don’t currently own one because of that, and my last expedition, the, the last vehicle I built was an E-XP, is what we called it. It was built at the XP Camper factory. I built the molds for the panels to create, uh, a box essentially with a pop top on the back.

So I had it-

Matt: And how, how long was that? It was like eight foot.

Bryon : Uh, the box was eight foot. It was an eight-foot box. Yeah. Yeah, correct. Okay. So it was [00:40:00] eight foot square essentially on the back of it, but had no- Yeah,

Matt: there’s not a

Bryon : lot … no cab over. So I had to build it custom because nobody really did that.

So it was pop top and no cab over. The cab over, I built a custom rack that through bolted through the cab in order to hold my kayaks and mountain bikes. Yeah, I remember

Matt: that.

Bryon : And then the top down. So with that truck, in theory, could fit in a shipping container, and that was the goal was like maybe you gotta air it down a little bit.

It was only on 33s, no lift. Um, and there’s a lot of things I would do differently these days, but that truck, I had to do all that custom stuff because it just doesn’t exist. Nob- most people that travel on this tend to, that buy big expedition trucks tend to be older people that have money and time, right?

Um, and they don’t necessarily carry as many big toys. Yeah, that makes sense. And the big t- the big toys is tough. It, it adds an equation. Yeah, makes sense.

Matt: Not, not to be an ad, but Bliss Mobile does have an eight-foot rising roof box, which is cool. There you go.

Bryon : They do, but it’s still tall. It’s still, it’s still relatively tall.

You wouldn’t want to put a roof rack on top of that and put [00:41:00] kayaks on it.

Matt: Well, I’m just saying, like, it was very similar to what you had. Ish. Hard, hard shell. It’s, it’s just a- Yeah … it’s a rising roof- Yeah … instead of a, a, like, a popped up.

Bryon : Yeah. The, the big difference is that one pretty much you’re not gonna live in unless it’s popped.

Mine, I could fully stealth camp in. The entire thing was designed so the top, you don’t have to pop it, and you could do every function inside the camper-

Matt: Mm …

Bryon : which doesn’t currently exist on the market still. You know, the

Matt: stealth camp thing used to be a real big, like, advantage of the van life. Like, I remember- Yeah

when, like, Foster Huntington, like, started this hashtag of van life, and people were, “Well, what, what the heck is that?” And you could just kinda, like, pull off on Highway 1 and- Yeah … and camp. Um, it’s interesting how it’s, how it’s changed. Like, the vans- Yeah … kinda moving into that world- Yeah … have just blown up.

I mean, they’re the easiest to drive. They’re the most accessible, um-

Bryon : But they’re the OG, right? Like, the van’s the OG. Like, of all these, like-

Matt: The van is the OG, yeah.

Scott: Oh,

Bryon : for sure. You just, you just sleep in it. It doesn’t matter if it’s outfitted or not. But Volkswagen- Since

Scott: the very first van … the Porsche

Matt: [00:42:00] tender.

Yeah. Yeah, basically.

Scott: When van number one was made, it, people were sleeping in it, for sure.

Matt: You know, I mean, vans, I think, are just, like, very accessible for people. Y-

Scott: and the Sprinters drive great.

Matt: Exactly.

Scott: People feel really comfortable driving them. They get reasonable fuel economy.

Matt: You see a lot of people that are new to the space, you know, maybe they’re inspired to hit the road and travel.

They don’t come from a background of four-wheeling or anything like that. You see a lot of these people end up in vans and, and frankly, like, I see why.

Bryon : Yeah, generally vans aren’t as capable, but they’re way more accessible. Anybody can hop in a van and just drive it. It drives generally like a car. That’s one of the benefits- Yeah

of a lot of vans.

Scott: And a lot of them even fit in a standard parking spot. Yep. Like a, if you get a 144, you know, it fits in a regular parking spot.

Bryon : It really depends on what you wanna do with it. I mean, that’s where I started all this before I knew what overlanding

Matt: was and all this Yeah, you had a sports mobile, and that was, like, back in the day, and it was like, it was like, “Oh, my buddy Bryon, he has a sports mobile.”

Bryon : I had a [00:43:00] 4×4 sports mobile. Man. So lift, 33s, like, pop top, extended body E350, which they still make E-series, but their only cutaway is now available new, so it’s really hard to find good condition older ones. But, um, they’re way more capable ’cause it’s basically a truck- Yeah … versus the modern vans that are, they’re vans.

They’re delivery vans. It’s not- Right … built on a truck chassis, which is basically an E3- an E-series is, it’s a truck with a van, like s- Totally … van body squished on the front of it.

Scott: And sports mobiles are cool, or the field vans now. Yep. I mean, I drove all the way through Copper Canyon in one of those things.

It was super awesome. Yeah. They’re so good.

Matt: Like, it was- I look at the field vans, and I just think that those things are super cool.

Scott: Like- They did a good job with those, yeah …

Matt: you know, ’cause they’re slightly wider, right? Like, they take the cutaway body, and then they’re, like a c-

Bryon : I’m talking about the Classic, yeah.

So that’s their new Classic. Yeah. They only do it extended body. It’s three inches wider on each side in the back. Looks like the standard van body from the E-series. They follow the lines perfectly, but it’s all composite. Mm. So it adds a volume, like huge, way more volume [00:44:00] inside, and it has the traditional pop top that they’ve been known for.

Scott: Yep.

Bryon : Uh, that thing is rad in all the ways. It’s got a, you know, a ton-

Scott: What do those sell for, like, if you were kinda turnkey on one of those?

Bryon : I’m gonna misquote this. I wanna say it was around six.

Scott: Okay.

Bryon : They’re, they’re about 18 or two years out, 18 months or two years out on those. Okay. I’ve, I’ve, I, I talked to, uh, Johnny at Field Van quite a bit about those ’cause I still drool on them every time I see them.

I just- Yeah, those are sweet … it’s so cool. It’s just a real… And the, the 4×4 system on them was overbilled. They’re on 35s, I think, right now. Yeah,

Matt: they make an Atlas twin stick and-

Scott: Yep.

Matt: Um, but people- Um, Dynatrac axles and … people are, they get really into these E-series vans. Yeah. I mean, I mean, frankly, like, the Sprinter to me is, like, very utilit- like, well, it’s not.

Maybe that’s not the right word. There is, th- they just, they do the job, right? Very functional. There’s more room

Bryon : in it. There’s more luxury and room in most of these other commercial vans, ’cause that’s what they’re designed for is volumetric space, right? But those- The E-Series was never really about that.

Matt: It’s

Bryon : got curved walls and things

Matt: But the E-Series, like, I don’t know, kind of like excites me more. Like, they’re a little bit more contrarian of a choice these days. Yeah. [00:45:00] In a, in a world of, you know, I mean, you go to like Telluride or Moab and there’s eight million Sprinters passing you, right? Yeah. And they all kind of look the same.

Yep. Like, I think that, I don’t wanna say people have forgotten about like the E-Series and like field van- Yeah … and, and that kind of stuff. Like, I mean, I do like the field van Sprinter things that had the pop top. A little easier to drive.

Scott: Does the new chassis cutaways that have the 7.3?

Bryon : Yep.

Scott: Godzilla motor?

Bryon : Correct. It’s only gas, no diesel option.

Scott: Yeah, that’s a great motor too though. Mm-hmm. Yep. You could take that around the world.

Bryon : So that’s the hot market. You’re, you’re all gonna see this at Expo here in a couple days, but there’s a lot, there’s… I don’t know how many are gonna be there, but I think there’s gonna be, um, at least three or four E-Series cutaway van expedition rig things hitting the market in th- this year, in 2026.

Um, one or two of them have not been announced publicly yet. Uh, there’s, like, two that did recently. Uh, GeoTrek. GeoTrek, I think, is one of them. [00:46:00] Basically they’re, they got a, um, independent, um Attachment point for the body on the back is what their main thing is. It allows the chassis to flex a lot, and they get a ton of articulation out of the thing.

Uh, I think on 37s. Wow. And they’re using U-joint, uh, stuff. So- Sweet … U-joint has figured out the E-Series and how to do- Big time … four-wheel drive systems and all from basic to really badass. So I think you’re gonna see a lot more of that now that… But who knows how long the, uh, Cutaway’s gonna be available?

The E-Series has been around forever.

Scott: Yeah.

Bryon : Supposed to end in 2018 was the last official thing. It didn’t, and they’ve upgraded it kinda one and a half, two times since then with the interior and the electronics and the motor and all the things. So who knows how long that’ll be around. Right now, ambulances and those type of industries are keeping it alive ’cause it’s such a durable chassis that people still want it.

Scott: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So what’s the, what’s the benefit, uh, like, what’s the key consideration around the, these vans? Like, why, w- why would somebody buy that over a slide-in truck [00:47:00] camper or an expedition camper? What’s the advantages?

Matt: I think they’re easier to drive. I think you have all in one living space.

I think you do- Little

Scott: bit of cab over, so you get some additional wi- like, overall living space out of a smaller package.

Matt: Yeah, I mean, you, you end up, like a 144- Yeah … Sprinter is roughly the same wheel base as, like, a Tundra. Yeah. Right? Or an F-150. The most living

Bryon : space in the same footprint, by far. Yeah.

Yeah. Of any of the options.

Matt: It’s a big square. ‘Cause it’s semi

Scott: cab over, yeah.

Matt: Yeah. And I also think that they’re casual, you know? And the way that I was saying I like a four-wheel camper because it’s transactional. Mm-hmm. Like, you can buy one, you can use it, you can sell it, you know. Not everybody does this forever, you know.

Yeah. A lot of people have an idea of, of a big trip, their big thing that they’re doing. I mean, you know, like, the Winnebago Revel is the one that I always, like, look at. Like, there’s a million of them, you know. There’s always somebody looking for one. You-

Scott: Yeah, easy to resell, sounds like.

Matt: Easy to resell.

Yeah.

Bryon : Can be.

Scott: Easier.

Matt: Yeah. I mean, I- Pe- well-

Scott: More so than something custom. Yeah.

Bryon : It’s a [00:48:00] bigger market, right? Van, the van market’s bigger than expedition trucks. Like

Matt: it’s

Bryon : a way bigger market.

Matt: Yeah, for sure. For sure. I, they can also be very affordable. I mean, you can look at some of the, like the RAM ProMaster based things, and you’re looking at, you know, vans that are transacting brand new in the 60s.

Yeah. Now, they don’t have much for off-road capability, um, but you may not- ‘

Scott: Cause a ProMaster’s front wheel drive, isn’t it?

Matt: Front wheel drive. It is. It’s got, like, a stick axle. And they kind of have that weird back asshole. The back is low.

Bryon : Yeah.

Scott: Yeah.

Matt: Um, anyways, but, like, I see Europeans driving those things in the United States all the time, and they’re doing the Pan Am with it or, or whatnot.

Um, I don’t know. Like, I’ve always been van curious. Mm. I’ve never-

Bryon : So the van life is the good life. I still swear by van life. Um, the problem is capability. To get real capability in a van chassis is near… It’s not impossible, but it’s really, really hard. You have to do something like an E-Series, even, um, uh, was it Engelhalt Allrun?

Scott: Eagle, Eaglehalt, yeah. Engelhalt

Bryon : Allrun. They’re making, like, 37s, proper two-speed transfer case on a Sprinter. So you take a US Sprinter, [00:49:00] you send it to Germany, they do all the cool stuff, send it back. The thing’s epic, right? I’ve driven one.

Scott: 100,000 bucks, yeah.

Bryon : With nothing in it. Yeah. That’s without a toilet or a

Scott: bed.

And that’s for the modification, not the… It doesn’t include the van. The vans kind of lose me

Matt: at that point. Yeah.

Scott: Like- That doesn’t include the van. But it’s- You’re basically making a G Wagon out of a Sprinter. Yeah.

Bryon : But it’s still not. It’s still a bread van with flexible chassis. Yeah. Like, really capable and huge amount of comfort you can create in a capable vehicle, but it’s really hard.

It’s rare to have a van that has the capability if you really wanna go far. I always say, like, that last 2, 3% of travels on those really hard adventures, that’s where a lot of my memories, core memories, come from. So for me, I have… I want a vehicle that can get me those last little bit, even though 99% of the time, 97% of the time, I’m not using that capability.

Yeah. Like, I still wanna have it in there and it’s cooler to have the capability.

Scott: Well, and remember, we’ve, we’re dealing with so many more people outdoors now. Yeah. So if you can get- Yeah … 3% further than a Sprinter van- Yeah … you’re gonna have maybe a wh- [00:50:00] a view all to yourself.

Matt: That’s the thing we like about, like, the expedition vehicle that Laura says all the time, is it just gets us a little bit further than, like, the, the trailers.

It gets us further than the vans. Yep. It doesn’t get us as far as usually, like, a truck camper or wedge camper or roof tent on a Tacoma or whatever, but, um, you know, you do have to consider the places you really wanna go, but also how much that is worth it to you, right? Like, one vehicle is never going to do absolutely everything.

Scott: Yep.

Matt: You know, that’s where trailers get interesting, is you can have a base camp, and you can have something that’s a little bit more capable to go further. I think that that’s kinda… I mean, that’s kinda what you’re doing in a way.

Bryon : Yeah.

Matt: You know, you’ve got this nice- Yeah, let’s talk

Scott: trailers for a little bit.

Bryon : Sure. Let’s hop into trailers. Um, yeah, I’m currently living full-time on the road with my wife and four-year-old, uh, in a 25-foot, uh, travel trailer, so proper RV. It’s a very nice one, but it’s not, um… It’s still an RV. It is not an expedition vehicle. It’s not built as such. But I’m towing [00:51:00] it with a Ram Prospector, um, not the XL, the regular one, so the 37s.

Uh, seems to be the perfect package. I’m in love with that truck. Um, so it’s a 26 Ram 3500 diesel Laramie level two with all the bells and whistles. Um- On 37s, bumpers, snorkel. Uh, it’s got a, um, smart cap on the back which is awesome, protects all my gear. And then, uh, four crossbars on it, so I got six kayaks on there at all times.

And the mountain bikes- Six … and everything in the back. Six.

Matt: It looks absolutely ridiculous. I’m

Bryon : sorry. I have, I have it down to six. Like, understand, like that took a lot of work to get to six.

Scott: So if you rolled over in the water, you would float.

Bryon : It would self-right. The truck would self-right in the water, yes.

I like that. I like that. That’s the one.

Scott: So what’s, what’s the brand- Oh, Bryon. Oh, Bryon … what’s the brand of the trailer?

Bryon : Uh, it’s a Lance trailer. Okay. So I bought, I bought it used on the market. I

Scott: didn’t know Lance made trailers.

Bryon : Yeah, so they- I

Scott: knew they made campers …

Bryon : they’re known for truck campers, right? Yeah. In this space, but no, they make lots of trailers.

Um, [00:52:00] and they have for a long time. They’re kind of… I, I don’t wanna say- They’re

Scott: known for quality.

Bryon : Yeah, and they’ve, they were changing owners again when I bought mine. Um, but I ended up buying just a used one on the market. Like, the thing stickers at crazy money, like $90,000, but they don’t ever transact at what they sticker for.

So I think the previous owner Bought it. One, one person owned it and slept in it seven nights before I bought it, so it was basically brand new even though it was a used trailer. He bought it for, like, 55 or 60, um- Mm-hmm … from a dealer, and then I bought it used for around 45 grand.

Scott: Wow.

Bryon : So, still a lot of money because you could buy the same exact trailer from some of these big RV manufacturers brand new, uh, sticker around 50, 55, and you can buy them for 33, 34 grand all day, every day, any dealer in the country.

We shopped heavily. I, I researched this stuff. I didn’t know the RV market inside and out, um, like I do now, um, before I went down this rabbit hole. And this camper, there’s pretty much none. There’s two manufacturers that make them that are [00:53:00] four-season, that actually work in four seasons. Outside RV, which are made in Oregon they’re a little…

They feel like an RV

Matt: inside. Yeah. Just- My father-in-law had one and a lot of things- Yeah … fell off of it, but otherwise- Yeah … it was…

Bryon : They’re built better than most RVs that are coming out of Indiana, but they’re… And they’re better insulated. They have way better systems for four-season camping, and that was why we were looking at them.

And they’re still v- They’re also very expensive. They’re in that, like, 70 to 100 grand range for a 25-foot-ish trailer. Lance is similar. Little nicer interior, feels a little more homey, um, feels a little more expedition truck, but is literally screwed together and pinewood and cheap veneer instead of glued together, stapled together, and fiberboard like you get out of a lot of- Yeah

basic RVs. Sure. And that does, that does make a difference. It does, for sure. But-

Scott: What’s the length of the camper?

Bryon : 25 feet.

Scott: Okay. Yeah. That’s pretty big.

Bryon : It’s, it’s kinda medium-small, actually- Yeah … in the camper world. I went really hard to find [00:54:00] one that would give me enough space for all of us to live in but also be relatively maneuverable, where I could park it just about anywhere and fit in normal RV parking spots and, uh, stuff like that.

It’s been the right size, I think. Um, the way it’s set up, it’s a Murphy bed with a queen at the front. It’s got a dinette, three-sided dinette on a slide-out in the middle. And in the back, it has, like, a ba- full bathroom separate shower from the toilet, but full bathroom, and then a rear, um, bunk beds that are crossways, uh, east-west in the back of the thing.

So three bunks. My kid gets the top bunk, and the bottom two bunks are for all my gear. Yeah, sure. So climbing gear, kayak gear, all that stuff. Um, so it allows us to have the kid go to sleep in the back. I can do work in the middle or watch TV or whatever, and my wife can sleep in the front, all at the same time.

Scott: Wow.

Bryon : Which is unhurt. You can’t do that in an expedition camper, right? You can’t do that in a truck camper.

Yeah.

Bryon : Um, so for full-time living, that’s been awesome. Like, we’ve been really, really grateful for that space. Did

Scott: you flip the axle or put some different tires or anything on it?

Bryon : We didn’t. We didn’t, no.

We thought [00:55:00] about all that. I might put a better tire on it next. The tires are wearing a little weird. They’re just some trailer, Goodyear trailer tires. But, um, the way the suspension is on this specific trailer, it’s not, doesn’t lend itself to that, sadly. Got it. Um, but it’s pretty good suspension off-road.

Doesn’t have a ton of clearance but has some. I’m not gonna drag it down that many rough roads, straight up Right It’s built like an RV Gravel

Scott: road,

Matt: right Remember that Bruder trailer we had here? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh my God, that thing was insane. Yeah. Those were cool. It had, like, insane independent suspension.

Yeah. It was, like, 48 volt systems. I mean, this was before 48 volt was, like, a thing. Yeah. It was like a, a, a spaceship for the time- They

Bryon : still make them …

Matt: when we saw

Scott: it. The one that I just saw, it actually has a water maker. It makes water from the air.

Bryon : Yep.

Matt: Huh. Yeah.

Scott: Like, it… You can park in the middle of nowhere and- And that’s

Matt: a Bruder?

Scott: Yeah.

Matt: Yeah. Wow.

Scott: So it has, it has that crazy, it’ll pull in air from the outside and remo- remove the-

Matt: Oh, I’ve seen these on houses …

Scott: remove the- Yeah … remove the water from-

Matt: That would work really well in Australia for a lot of, like- Yeah … [00:56:00] beach camping and that kind

Scott: of stuff. Exactly. Yeah. So yeah, you could, technically you could be permanently remote ’cause you have tons of solar, water maker.

Matt: Yeah. Yeah, ’cause I guess on one end, like, you have what, what- Tulsa kangaroos … what, what you’re doing, Bryon, is you kinda have more of the traditional RV style trailer- An RV trailer, yep … with a really capable, like, AV Prospector truck, so you can go and, you know, do your little trips, you know- Yeah … out from there.

But you know, there’s… Trailers span this, like, huge range, right? Yeah. I mean, like, I’ve always thought, uh, you know, some of these, like… I always liked the AT Chaser trailers, for example. Yeah. I mean, it was everything that you would do for, like, a basic vehicle build. I mean, not a basic vehicle build.

Scott: Yeah, no, you’re right.

Matt: Um, you know- I think that’s a

Scott: great, the surrendered you described … the

Matt: fridge, the roof tent, the water, that kinda thing, that was all done. I mean, now you have, like, the Patriot campers, which I think are pretty cool. Um-

Bryon : But even within those, they have the basic trailer, like, that was kind of an upgraded Chaser- Yeah

right, with more features. And now they have the new ST5, which you can- And

Scott: SC7 now.

Bryon : ST- Oh, [00:57:00] the SC7. Yeah, you can live inside-

Matt: Both five and seven …

Bryon : inside of it. Yeah.

Matt: Yeah, like Matt Pryor- It’s, like, popped up … who’s driving around the world in his Grenadier with, you know- Yeah … two little kids. Yeah. They’ve got a, a, a Patriot.

And you know, it’s allowed him to have just, like, a completely separate stock Grenadier.

Scott: Yeah.

Matt: And then he has this, you know, this trailer that can go anywhere, and his vehicle’s not super overloaded. They can leave the trailer somewhere and go in town. You know-

Scott: And the Grenadier has the advantage of a pretty big towing capacity.

Yeah. So you can, yeah, you can kinda tow those things around. Again, I come back to, like, if you’re gonna tow a trailer, it sure as hell better have a hot water shower in it. O- otherwise, why… Yeah. If you don’t include those additional comforts-

Matt: Yeah …

Scott: all you’re doing is adding space that you’re just gonna fill with other stuff.

Yeah. It’s like, just build it into your car, as opposed to spending 50, $60,000 to tow around a roof tent. I don’t- That’s, that- I don’t get it …

Matt: that would be my critique of- I don’t get it … of some of these, like, Australian, you know, camper trailers. Like, [00:58:00] they’re very expensive tents.

Scott: Yeah.

Matt: Like, for me, if it doesn’t have a door- I’m not towing it.

Scott: And I think that’s why Patriot just came out with the ST5 and the ST7 is that they needed to have- Yeah … something that was r- that where it makes sense to tow and pay for something that expensive- Yeah … is it’s gotta have some comfort. It’s gotta have some amenities that you can’t build into a standard vehicle build.

Matt: Mm.

I

Bryon : think you need to differentiate between that too. Like, a off-road trailer with a rooftop tent or some type of tent system that pops off of it is very different than any kind of trailer, off-road or on, that you sleep inside of and has- Right … a bathroom and all of that. Yeah. Those are very different.

And I would say that the rooftop tent type thing, you can’t really compare that in this discussion. We’re talking about vans and truck campers and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn’t even fit. You have to talk about one that has the other features. That’s

Scott: right.

Matt: Yeah. They’re very, like, they’re, they’re very specific to, like, Australia.

Like, I understand where you would want to have- You know, a Patriot camper if you were crossing the Canning Stock Route or- [00:59:00] Sure … you know, the Simpson Desert or something. You know, like they’re rugged. A traditional trailer is w- either gonna be too heavy or you’re gonna rattle the thing to death.

Scott: They are super durable.

Matt: But I don’t know if we… Like, I feel like in the US it’s like we’re doing more, like, technical sport driving and then pavement or- Sometimes … kinda ducking down a Forest Service road, and I’m not sure.

Bryon : Even the Bruder, though, has both, right? So the Bruder- Yeah … like, yeah, you sleep inside of it, but you generally live outside in that thing.

Mm. Yeah. Like the kitchen and everything’s outside. It’s very that Australian or South African style where- Mm … you’re camping. Yeah. You just happen to maybe have a bed inside- Yeah … and maybe have a shower inside. Yeah. But it’s still a camping. Like, that’s different than an RV trailer like I have.

Like, I’m not living outside. Like, everything’s indoors. Yeah. I can live outside of it, like you can put a s- you know, a stove outside and, and barbecue or whatever. But it’s basically like having a rolling house. That’s different than having… Like, even these truck campers w- that we’ve talked about so far, you’re living inside.

Like, you’re not camping out- outside in a tent.

Scott: Yep.

Bryon : [01:00:00] Yeah.

Yeah. Even i- my last, my Lexus GX 460, I had a sleep platform, like a Goose Gear sleep s- So I’d sleep inside of it. No rooftop tent ever. Like, I’m not I’m not completely against rooftop tents, but. ‘Cause you got, you got,

Scott: you got stuff you wanna put on the top.

It… 100, 100%. Mountain bikes and-

Bryon : 18

Matt: kayaks.

Bryon : I can only fit about six on that.

Scott: Jesus. But you, you know- And skis … I mean, the tr- the tra- the trailers make sense in my mind- Yeah … if you’re adding comfort and convenience. Yeah. They really do make sense. I just, uh, I think with all this stuff, like I think even about the truck camper, the one big differentiation between my truck camper and an EarthRoamer is the fact that I need to do like two or three steps at least to make any of those things work.

So if I wanna use the bathroom, I’ve gotta unstrap, I gotta pull it out of the little cubby, I gotta do the thing, I gotta put the bag in. Whereas you, in a Expedition camper, there’s no friction. You go straight to the toilet. If I wanna take a shower, I gotta unzip the bag, I

Matt: gotta- It’s really great when you have truck stop Indian [01:01:00] food.

Scott: Yeah. But, like, so the, I mean, we’re coming back to like- Don’t do that … you can have, like I, I have a heater, I have an air conditioner, I have all those things, but they all take steps and effort to get to. And they’re, none of them are gonna be as easy and frictionless as- I- … like in a camper Ex- Expedition camper.

Really important point.

Matt: I, I think the most underrated of all the four different things we’ve talked about, I think the truck camper is the most underrated, um, you know, kinda like, you know, home on wheels, right? It, it ticks all of those boxes of comfort. It allows you to have, you know, in many cases a shower, a toilet, a little sink.

Scott: Yep.

Matt: You know, you’re, you’re elevating your comfort beyond, you know, just, just a vehicle or, or a vehicle build. Um, I think the value of money is good on ’em. You know, I think expedition vehicles, the value for money equation, you’re not even really thinking of.

Scott: Yeah, you can’t. You can’t. It’s hard to.

Matt: You know? It’s hard

Scott: to.

Bryon : It’s hard, but-

Matt: I mean, you know, it’s, it’s-

Scott: It’s hard to …

Matt: it’s- I

Bryon : [01:02:00] think there’s kinda three factors here, and you’ve touched on some of them. One is price, right? So with a truck camper, you can disassociate the truck camper from the truck. Yeah. So now you have two assets instead of one.

In a van or an expedition camper, it’s one asset. If the engine, if the engine blows up-

Matt: As soon as they hit, as soon as they hit 50,000 miles,

Bryon : like- Like yours …

Matt: pretty much nobody wants them, right?

Bryon : I don’t know about that, but,

Matt: uh- Well, there’s always a buyer, but they plummet … I’m just saying,

Bryon : like your, your truck, when your engine went, it, you 100% have to put a new engine in it.

Yeah. Because it’s mated to the camper. You can’t take the truck camper off, trash or, or have the insurance total the truck, and then- Yeah … redo it. It’s just not an option. Same with vans. A lot of vans, like once you build it completely out and you go overboard with all the build-out, you, the, that’s worth way more than the- Yeah

chassis it’s on. And then if the engine wears out or the transmission wears out or, you just have to repair that stuff. So it’s a, that’s part of the equation. The other part of the equation is your friction, like you were talking about, and convenience, and luxury [01:03:00] level, and what you want to do, and how… I think part of that is, like each individual and how they feel about that.

Like, whether a composting toilet or a full toilet that flushes- Full flushing … yeah, flushes and goes to the outside. That’s a different level. Um, do you need a full shower inside that you can have full running water? Like, that requires huge volumes of, um, water to onboard. Yeah. Gray and black and clean water.

Matt: It, it’s like all of this entire episode was set up in order of best for travel to least good

Bryon : for

Matt: travel. Hm.

Bryon : Funny. But yet I’m traveling full-time in a trailer.

Scott: Well, but you know, and you, you should be commended for that, Bryon, ’cause- No, no … you… No, totally. Think about it. Like, you made a decision To rent your home, your super cool house in Portland, and to get on the road with your family- Yeah

and to go experience the things that you love to do and to show your daughter the things that you love to do. Absolutely. And but that’s why we should be doing these things. Mm-hmm. If we do them for the right reasons- Yeah … uh, which for you was, like, “I [01:04:00] wanna be out in nature, and I wanna show my family-” Yeah

“what that means to me,” that’s doing it for the right reasons. If, you know, if, if you spend a million bucks on an expedition camper and it gets used three times a year, maybe you’re do- not doing it for the right reasons. Mm. You know,

Bryon : maybe, but if it gets you out- Oh, man. That’s almost

Scott: me now, though.

Bryon : If it gets you out three times that you wouldn’t have gone out, maybe it’s perfectly okay. You know, you gotta go around- Yeah … around and around. And the reality is, again, it comes down to number of people and all that. Think about Graham Bell and his family and how they brought him up in a Defender 130- Yeah

with two rooftop tents or one big rooftop tent, like- That’s

Scott: right …

Bryon : that’s epic, right? Like, h- they forego a lot of comforts, but still had that experience. Yeah. You don’t need any of the things we’re talking about, and it… There’s no one answer for everybody. There’s so many factors involved in it. I don’t want an RV.

The thing is falling apart in some ways. I keep fixining it, and- I

Matt: spent all weekend fixing it. He

Bryon : did. He helped me all weekend fixing it. It’s… and they’re little things. It’s not, like, the end of the world. Yeah,

Matt: it’s not,

Bryon : it’s not falling apart. ‘Cause it is a nice RV in terms of RVs. Yeah. And I take care of my stuff, [01:05:00] but I would love to be in an expedition truck and not be dragging a trailer all over the country.

Like, I would love to be.

Matt: Yeah.

Bryon : But I picked the right truck to tow the right trailer around. I do 80 over the mountains and don’t care, and then I unhook, don’t even air down, and go get sunset shots in Moab with this truck on hard trails. It doesn’t care. Again, it depends on what you wanna do. I want the capability, and I needed the space for the three of us.

I know what my wife needs for f- living, and I knew what my four-year-old needs to live. And then me, for my sanity, uh, and full-time job and, uh, that I had and now freelancing for a lot of people, I need to be able to work late at night as well. Yeah,

Matt: sure. So the trailer allows me to do that. I’m just glad that Rose has a, has, like, multiple toy boxes.

Bryon : She does have multiple toy boxes. But all the toys

Matt: fit in the toy box. And, and, and she’s gonna be five by the time she listens

Scott: to this. Yes, probably. So. Well, and if you look at the three of us- Yep … you’re pulling a trailer. Yep. You have an expedition camper. Yep. And I have a truck camper. There you go. And it’s exactly what we each need in order to get outdoors- Yeah

and it it, you love-

Matt: Right now, my Greyhound [01:06:00] loves-

Scott: Exactly …

Matt: my EarthRoamer.

Scott: But-

Matt: His EarthRoamer …

Scott: you have told me for six years how much you love that vehicle. I love it. And it gets you out, it gets you outdoors. So I think that’s the key to it is buy the right vehicle for yourself. You know, please don’t overspend money on the truck.

If you’ve got 10 million bucks in the bank and you wanna buy a $800,000 Expedition camper, that is not a stretch.

Matt: Yeah.

Scott: It’s not a stretch, so buy what you want, of course, but don’t overspend on the vehicle and the camper, which means that you can’t experience the travel. The stuff. The travel.

Don’t forget

Bryon : the purpose.

Scott: Yeah. Yeah. So come back to the purpose. You know, get out with your family, get out with the people you love, doing something you love, and, and surprisingly, they all work in their own way.

Bryon : Mm-hmm. They do. I mean, I still miss the van life, don’t get me straight. Van life is the good life, but this is the right answer for now, and it, everybody’s got their own modes.

Just get out there. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn’t, it doesn’t matter. If you, if you have a way, go adventure and travel. It doesn’t have to be full-time, doesn’t have to be just on the weekend. Do whatever works for whatever- Yeah … the lifestyle [01:07:00] situation you are, and again, don’t make it a thing. Like, everyone always asks, “How do you do it?”

Make it a priority. If it’s a priority, if it’s your priority, you can do it. Money matters, sure, but it doesn’t. Like, you can… I bought a 300,000-mile used van initially and had no money. I was broke. I had no debt, but I had no money, and I hit the road and lived under the poverty line for, like, six years full-time.

It was fine. I never left wanting. I got to go do the things I wanted to do. Yeah. Barely, but I worked enough to make it happen as I went. Yeah. And again, it’s just whatever stage in life you are, get out and do it.

Scott: Yeah, if you want it bad enough, you can make it happen.

Matt: Yeah. Well, hopefully that was helpful, everyone.

Scott: Yeah. We thank you all for listening. We’ll talk to you next time.

Matt: Adios.

Bryon : Peace.

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