Jess Stuhler on African-Made Overland Accessories, Roof Tents, and Exploring with Family

Scott Brady

Scott Brady is an adventurer, author, and publisher, and the first person in history to cross all seven continents. Brady is executive publisher of the Overland Collective, home to Overland Journal, the Overland Journal Podcast, and expeditionportal.com—the world’s largest vehicle-dependent adventure community. Scott wrote Overlanding 101 (Simon & Schuster) and is currently riding around the world on his BMW GS. He also led Expeditions 7, the first expedition to drive the same vehicle on all seven continents. Brady’s polar crossings include Antarctica and a south–north crossing of the Greenland ice sheet. Scott is a fellow of the Explorers Club and lives in Prescott, Arizona.

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Transcript

Scott Brady: [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to the Overland Journal Podcast. I’m your host, Scott Brady, and I’m joined today by Jess Stuhler. Now, Jess runs a company called Eezion, but he’s been a longtime friend. I’ve known Jess for just about 20 years, and we’ve done extensive travel in all of Southern Africa and also in the United States.

Now, what makes Jess very unique is really their discipline around making authentic overland equipment. This is not a podcast about Eezion, but it is certainly a podcast around how Jess got involved with Eezion, how he took the company over from his dad, who’s been running it for 40 years, and also how Jess learned how to produce such high-quality components.

So we talk a lot about Jess’s travels. We talk a lot about the ethos of high-quality [00:01:00] equipment, what makes South African equipment unique in the world. Also, some of the things that Jess has learned about

Jess: traveling with his family. So please enjoy my wide-ranging conversation with Jess Stuhler

Scott Brady: Jess, thanks so much for being on the podcast today with me.

I appreciate it. I, I’ve known you and your family for coming on 20 years now, and I have such respect for your dad, Jack, and such respect for you. Um, and I’ve learned a lot from you, not only about how things are made in Africa, but how South Africans travel overland. Um, so let’s talk a little bit about what was your first memory of overlanding that, that you can recall?

Jess: Oh, geez, Scott, it goes back years, you know? So, so the thing is, is you know, from when I was born, Dad was traveling. You know, he was already going to Botswana, and he’s going to Namibia and [00:02:00] stuff like that. So we used to take Series I Land Rovers, and we used to go to Botswana, and in those days it used to take two days to get to Maun, you know?

Scott Brady: Amazing.

Jess: And, uh, yeah, and you know, we used to… He used to bath me in a little, a little bucket. You know, a little bucket next to-

Scott Brady: Sure …

Jess: next to the river and stuff like that. So it goes back, it goes back a long ways, you know? And in those days, my mom and my aunt, they used to sit in the back with towels wrapped around them because of the dust, you know?

Scott Brady: Sure.

Jess: And we used to silicone… They used to get underneath, and we’d… He’d… I’d shine the torch from the top, and he’d, he’d, he’d go along finding the holes, and we’d, we used to silicone the whole thing, but we never, ever got those Series I Land Rovers- … to seal. You know, so it goes way back, you know? It- Yeah

it’s, yeah, it’s, it’s a, it’s, you know, it’s a part of… It’s a part of my life, you know? And, uh, for you to say that is, is something special.

Scott Brady: Well, you know, Jess, uh, this time that we’ve had together, w- I mean, I’ve been to South Africa now I think we figured out [00:03:00] 10 times, but every time I’ve come here, you and I have gone and done something neat together, like, like this trip right now.

Uh, we’re in the Waterberg, and we spent the whole day yesterday driving around in these incredible vehicles and, and seeing a country that- you were born in and that you love, but that also I’ve come to love in my life. And, and I think that there’s, there’s something about not only South Africa for someone who loves to travel, but the lessons that can be learned from how South Africans overland, because it was really the South Africans and the Australians that started this whole thing.

I mean, you guys were the ones… Like, for you, it was camping, but it had to be overlanding, ’cause if you wanted to go see Botswana, you had to hop in a Series 1 Land Rover and, and drive for two days.

Jess: Well, exa- exactly that, and I think, you know, obviously, you know, you’re 100% correct. The Australians [00:04:00] and the South Africans I think pioneered the market, you know?

Yeah. In those days, you didn’t have the fridges, and you didn’t have all the am- the amenities that you got today, you know? Yeah. You, you had a cooler box with hot ice in it, you know, and you used to wrap it in newspaper to give you… And by the, by the end of the holiday, you, you didn’t have, you didn’t have cold food, you know?

Yeah, sure. And you used to have a bag, a hessian bag hanging on your mirror to give you, to give you cold water. So-

Scott Brady: Yeah …

Jess: um, but yeah, and, and, and for you to come out and spend time with us is, is always, I mean, it’s- Yeah … irreplaceable. So, so thanks. I mean, you, you know, I know your time is, is, is always… You know, you’re so busy and, and stuff like that.

I always say to my wife, if I wanna know what the weather’s like around the world, I speak to Scott Brady. So, so, so, so, you know, the thing is, is, is, is, you know, it’s… So I, I really, I really, really, really- Yeah … thank you. I thank you, I thank you from the bottom of my heart for, for taking the time out, you know?

So, um, yeah, it’s-

Scott Brady: You know, you know, Jess, it, I look back on, you know, it’s been 20 years doing this, and one of the very first [00:05:00] pieces of equipment that I got sponsored was a, an Eezi Awn 1200 tent, and this was back when Nathan Hinman ran Pangea Expeditions. Now, contemporary to that, your dad had started his big expedition in the Americas, and for me, there just wasn’t a lot of content out there on that.

And your dad was running a blog, if I remember correctly at the time, and they would update with their photos. So here I’m looking at, you know, Nathan Hinman and all of the stuff that he was doing with Pangea, and then here’s your dad taking this amazing Land Cruiser up the length of the Americas. And so for me, Eezi Awn was the high water mark of what I felt was long-term, durable overland camping equipment.

And when I finally got a chance to get that 1200 from Nathan, it [00:06:00] really did expose me for the very first time to South African products. And there, there are, there were other roof tent companies at the time from South Africa that were also very good, but they were all known for being so durable. And what do you think, you know, whether it’s Eezi Awn or at the time Howling Moon or whatever, what do you think made South African products so reliable and durable?

What do you think were some of the attributes that made those products so effective?

Jess: Well, I think, I think first of all, I think the, what people don’t realize is the distances that we have.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Jess: So, you know, if you travel to B- Botswana or something like that, it’s, it’s, y- you, it’s a two-day trip to get anywhere.

Yeah. So, so you, so you need a, you need a product that can stand up to those conditions. Yeah. And then obviously, I mean, yes, Africa is starting to… There is more and more asphalt or tarred roads, but in those days, they were all gravel roads.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Jess: So, so that all determined on how the product had to last. So it had to endeavor all those things.

Yeah. [00:07:00] And then what Easy On did at the time was we, we never, we never invented the roof tent. The roof tent was invented in, in the early ’60s-

Scott Brady: Yeah …

Jess: um, in Europe. But what we did was we took the concept and we put the bigger windows in it because of, obviously because of the temperatures that we have, and we, we put the window rods in, you know?

Yeah. And we changed the hinges, and we made everything aluminum so that it, it would be lighter and, and we, we, we made the ladders able to fold up and stuff like that. So we, we played a big role in pioneering the roof tent.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Jess: Um, but we never invented the roof tent. Yeah. And then, and then obviously we needed it to, to be able to go through, on a trip for four weeks into Botswana and Namibia, where there’s endless corrugations.

And similar to, to, to what, to, um, I think Australia. Australia’s- Yes … also got miles and miles of corrugations if you go out to Ayers Rock or, or, or whatever. Yeah. You know?

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Jess: So I think, I think they also had similar, similar things in mind, and that’s why I think the Australian and South African products were the pioneers in the industry [00:08:00] and moving forward.

And then obviously Dad- He, he loves to travel, you know? He’s been traveling his whole life. Um, so he traveled through Africa twice, all the way to Europe, and then he did, he did the Americas, so he did Patagonia all the way to Alaska.

Scott Brady: Mm-hmm.

Jess: And I think that’s when he met Paul-

Scott Brady: Yeah …

Jess: from Equipped.

Scott Brady: That’s right.

Jess: Um, and they became friends, and Paul became a distributor of ours in America.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Jess: And yeah, we’ve been friends, friends ever since. So, so yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s interesting to see how everybody wants things to go lighter and lighter and lighter and lighter, but unfortunately, there is a, there is a, there is a, there’s a up and a downside.

Yeah. Because obviously as you go lighter, you, you, you… there is a, there is a little bit of a, a quality depreciation. Yeah. Doesn’t matter how you t- And when a roof tent or any other tent is live on the vehicle, it’s live, so it moves around, it shakes and it rattles. It’s not like a dome tent that you stick in the back of your car.

Scott Brady: So

Jess: true. So, so, so that’s the problem, you know? And

Scott Brady: it’s meant to last for, for years. I mean, I remember… I’ve [00:09:00] seen many Eezi Awn tents or other high-quality South African roof tents that have been on vehicles for years around the world, and I believe it’s the, it’s the thickness of the canvas, it’s the fact that you guys have such a heavy-duty cover, so it can actually take, hold up to some brush scrapes in really tight terrain.

And then you guys use these high-quality, um, mold-resistant wood floors as well in most of your products, and they just really hold up over the long, in the long term. You know, I’m just, I’m just sitting here thinking, you know, a lot of the people in my life that I’m closest with actually came because of that 1200 tent.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it, it is because Paul, who’s, he’s… Paul is behind the camera today. Paul is working as Paula today … producing, producing the podcast, wa- making sure it’s continuing to record. But Paul reached out, Paul May from Equipped reached out to me because he [00:10:00] saw that I had a 1200 Eezi Awn that I had been using and I had a bunch of imagery and I was doing some cool stuff with it, and he said, “How can we help?”

And then through that, I got a chance to meet your dad, and then I got a chance to meet you and-

Jess: Sure …

Scott Brady: you know, so these are friendships that have lasted 20 years because of high-quality products. And I think high quality products tend to bring higher quality people because they’re trying to do something that they’re proud of, and they’re trying to do something that lasts for their customers so that their customers get a good value.

Um, so in my mind, any time I interact with a higher quality product, I mean, AEV’s another great example, and Dave Harriton, and just people who really care about the quality of the products that they make, they end up being really high quality people. Um, but, you know, the South African stuff is really special, and what other…

Like, when you look back on those early trips, what were some of the things that you used then that you still use now? Like, it [00:11:00] really works.

Jess: Wow, that’s, uh… Well, the thing is, is we, we were cooking this morning on the skottel, so. Yeah. So yeah, there’s a lot of things that I still use. I still use my Coleman, my Coleman cooler box- Yeah

you know, that I, that I, that I put in the back of my car, and it goes with me everywhere.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Jess: Um, I, I still like to use a bottle jack, you know? I, I- Yeah … I take the, the normal jack of a, of a vehicle out and I, I, I… or I put it to one side and I, I take a bottle jack with a- Yeah … blank with me, and everybody goes, “Geez, why do you do that?”

You know? I’ve just found it’s, it’s, it’s the easiest way to, to jack up a vehicle, you know? Sure. So there’s, there’s so many, there’s so many things that I, that I still stick with. I think my wife, my wife looks at me and she thinks I’m crazy. But there’s, there’s certain, there’s certain things with, with camping and, and stuff like that where, where I just, I just like, like what I like, you know?

Yeah. And I take those, those certain things, things with me all over, all over the place, you know? So-

Scott Brady: Well, and I’ve… You know, in the time that I’ve known you, you have owned a lot of Toyota Hilux. What, what is it that [00:12:00] you find that you like most about the Hilux, and what are the things that you like to do to each one of them?

Like a, like your standard modifications that you like to do to a Hilux.

Jess: Well, the, or- originally when, when, when I bought vehicles and stuff like that, I would always, I would always put the bumpers on and stuff like that, and I’d go to town. But what I found is, unfortunately, is, is that, uh, the more weight you put on it, the less performance you have, and some, in some ways it’s a bit of a hindrance.

Scott Brady: Hmm.

Jess: And I, I like to, you know, I… We, we keep our Hiluxes for two, three years, and then we, and then we move them on. Um, now the, the Hilux, the Hilux is a, is a crazy vehicle because it- It’s, it’s, it doesn’t do everything perfect, but it, it does everything well.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Jess: You know? So you can- And

Scott Brady: forever.

Jess: And forever, you know?

So, so 100%. Yeah. So, so you know, so if you, if you, the… If I were to buy a Hilux, you know, you unfortunately or fortunately, you, you need to go up with the suspension in the front slightly. It’s, they always, they always dip in the front. Um, Toyota likes to increase the [00:13:00] wheel size, but I don’t believe that helps the, the problem.

Yeah. So you need to, you need to go up in the front. So, so whether you, you, you put… I, I normally go up with a rating of the, of the springs in the front.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Jess: And then the, the, the, the springs at the back, I normally put another leaf spring at the back, and that gives me, I can carry anything up to 750 kilograms, you know?

Mm-hmm. So, so those are the things that I do, and then I change the tires out. Um, I like BFGoodrichs. Um, I’ve always liked BFGoodrichs. We’ve traveled around the world with BFGoodrichs. They’re not the perfect tire. You do find that they, they do slip a little bit in the wet.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Jess: Um, but they give you, they give you 80,000 kilometers if you drive carefully and you swap the tires around, so.

Scott Brady: That’s true. Yeah, they do last a long time.

Jess: They do, you know? So, but you know, like I was saying, I mean, the last, the last Hilux that I, or the Hilux that I had was, was the Legend. Um, and every time that you buy one, you know, they, it’s little model changes, but they… It’s crazy, but they, they definitely, that little bit, you know, it’s either quiet, uh, or it, or it handles better, or it does something, you know?

[00:14:00] So it’s a very special vehicle in my heart, um, even though, you know, I drive l- of, of, I drive a lot of different vehicles. But, um, and it’s, and it’s, it’s go-anywhere ready, you know? You can, you can take it to the Kruger Park, you can take it to Namibia, you can take it to Botswana, you know?

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Jess: Um, fuel consumption, you know, on average is between 10 and 11 liters per 100.

Um, you, you… It, it’ll sit at that all day. They never get hot, and they’ve never, ever, ever let me down, you know?

Scott Brady: And I think that’s the reason why so many people rely on the Hilux. You know, I think about when Greg and I went across Antarctica with Expedition 7, like, we literally trusted our life to a Hilux, and they never stopped running.

They never stopped working. They’re just, they truly are amazing vehicles, and the fact that you could hop in one, like we’ve got a, a Hilux right now from Overlanding with Bruce. So those that are listening, check out Overlanding with Bruce. He [00:15:00] drives a Defender 110, a new one, and he does some really cool stuff with it.

So it’s neat to see him pushing that model. But then he also rents fully prepared expedition Hilux here in Africa. Um, and I’ve got one of them that I’m gonna be taking on a trip out to go see Kingsley Holgate in a few days. So, um, you know, the Hilux are just, they just are the workhorse of Africa.

Jess: 100%, and that’s why, I mean, I mean, look, you talk about Bruce.

I mean, he’s an amazing person. He’s a, he’s a friend of mine, and he’s an amazing person. And the thing is, is, is, but y- the, the… What people don’t realize is all, most of the… Well, 90% of the hire rental side of things all run Hiluxes.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Jess: And, you know, the crazy part is, you know, like, if you take a Legend, it, it comes with a, the, the driver’s seat electric, but the passenger seat- Yeah

the passenger seat not. So you, you, you know, but they still are amazing vehicles. Yeah. Um, and 100%, Bruce now I think he’s, he’s, you know, he’s, he’s o- he’s on his sixth Hilux, and he went [00:16:00] down to Cape Town now to fetch, to fetch one of them. Um, hopefully you’ll meet up with him when you get back to Johannesburg.

Yeah, right.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Jess: Uh, but y- and he’s done, he’s done, he’s done some amazing trips, and he’s, he’s traveled all around Africa in Land Rovers. Um, and now he’s got a few, a few Hiluxes, and they, and don’t get me… They’ve also given him a little bit of troubles- Mm-hmm … but he’s sorted it out. Um, but it, it, it is the go-to vehicle for, for Africa, I think.

Yeah. I think because it’s, it’s, it, it, it is expensive. It has becoming… It is becoming more expensive.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Jess: But it, it just does everything nice. You can use it as a day-to-day driver, and you can also take your kids away and stuff like that, and your wife away on the weekends.

Scott Brady: And probably the, I mean, the biggest issue with the Hilux globally is theft So, you know, you just had- The one, the one that I borrowed yours, I borrowed yours the last time I was in Africa-

not all that long ago. And I, I, I had a- Yeah … beautiful drive with it. Yeah. And it wasn’t two weeks later and you’re like, “Scott, I’m so glad you got a chance to drive- [00:17:00] Yeah … the Hilux,” ’cause it’s gone.

Jess: Well, geez, you know what? So many people have come into the company and some of my friends have said to me, “Listen, I’ve lost my Hilux.

I’ve lost my car. I’ve lost my Land Cruiser,” and stuff like that. And I really, you know, you obviously feel sorry for them, but when it happens to you- Yeah … um, and yes, I can buy another one, but the crazy thing is they, they creep into your heart. Yeah. And, and you remember those, those amazing trips that you had, you know?

Yeah. I, I mean, my son and I went to, we went to, with a g- a friend of mine, Graham Sharp, we went up into to Zimbabwe. We went to Gonarezhou and stuff together. And you remember all those trips, you know, all the, all those amazing trips that you had in the vehicle, you know? So when, when somebody takes it unexpectedly, it’s, it’s, it’s not the most pleasant.

And, and so-

Scott Brady: No, and I think it is, you definitely get that feeling of, like, violation. Like you’ve been, something, it’s like a member of the family, a vehicle like that becomes. Like you said, all the stories, and somebody takes it from you, and man, it, it, it probably feels, you feel a little [00:18:00] bit- violated, you know?

Jess: Y- y- yeah, 100%. You know, the other thing is you, you haven’t, you haven’t sold it. So normally when I, when I, when I s- I look, I like to look after my cars, I really do. Um, they’re very precious to me. So, so the thing is, is, is because you haven’t sold it, it’s like y- you, you’re gonna come home and I didn’t drive it every day.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Jess: So you, you gotta come home and it’s gonna be standing in the garage, you know? Yeah. So for the first couple of months you still, you still come home and go, “W- w- where is it?” You know? Yes,

Scott Brady: exactly.

Jess: So, so yeah, I think, you know, it’s the, it’s the craziest thing and, and yes, like I said, you can, you can replace it but they all, they all g- got a little place in my heart.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Jess: Um, and, and I think, I mean, that’s why Bruce, he’s, he’s, uh, I mean this one, this one is, is, uh, he, they all got their names. He’s called them all their names ’cause he- Yeah … his vehicles also, uh, got a, a place in his heart, you know?

Scott Brady: Yeah, for sure.

Jess: You know?

Scott Brady: So quite the coup though, you are now currently driving a different pickup truck.

What are you driving now?

Jess: Yeah, so the crazy part is I’m actually driving a [00:19:00] Ford Raptor now. So

Scott Brady: Well, it is a Ford Raptor. It’s…

Jess: Yeah, yeah. So

Scott Brady: it’s a Ford Ranger Raptor- Correct … ‘

Jess: cause

Scott Brady: you guys get the Ranger

Jess: here, aren’t you? Correct, yeah. So we get the Ford Ranger Raptor. Um, and yes, it is, it is different. It, it, it is different.

Uh, is it, is it, is it better? M- maybe not, you know.

Scott Brady: Faster .

Jess: It definitely faster, yeah. Def- definitely faster. Fuel consumption is more. Um, but it definitely puts a smile on your face. Uh-huh. Um, it’s more like a car. And you know, that’s the s- the scary part. As much as we all like to say we, we spend so much time in the bush and off-road and stuff like that, at the end of the day, you know, we all have to, well, I have to work for a living.

So you spend 80% or 90% on the road- Yeah … and 10% in the bush in rea- in, in, in reality. Um, so, so it is, it is very comfortable car. It hasn’t given me a day’s- trouble up to now. I’ve, I’ve just done, I’ve done 10,000 kilometers. Um, and it’s, it’s, we’ve taken it on a few trips already. Um, we had to, [00:20:00] we had to put, ’cause obviously it’s a trophy truck, it’s not really designed for off-roading, um, I don’t think.

Scott Brady: You know? For overlanding so much,

Jess: yeah. For, for overlanding. Yeah. You know, so, so the tank, because of the fuel consumption, the tank is, is a little bit small. 350 Ks, yes, if you drive at 100 you most probably will get 400 kilometers. But, uh, in reality- You don’t,

Scott Brady: you don’t drive that fast …

Jess: I don’t drive at 100, you know?

So, so the thing is, is, uh, we put airbags in the back of it and we put another tank in it. Um, you know-

Scott Brady: So is it an auxiliary tank or is it just a larger main tank?

Jess: So, ja, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a larger main tank. I see. So you, so you basically take the tank out and it gives you, it gives you 140 liters from, from 85.

Wow. So you, ja. So- That’s a

Scott Brady: big jump.

Jess: It’s a big jump and, and I get over 6- 600 k- kilometers on it now- Right … which, which makes it i- accessible, you know? Yeah. You can, you can at least get to places and, and, and so forth. So we’ll see how it, it, we’ll see, we’ll see how it stacks up. And obviously they also steal Fords but, but hopefully they won’t steal my one.

You know, so. Yeah.

Scott Brady: Well, and it’s a great looking truck. I [00:21:00] remember, uh, when we went out to dinner the last time I was here and you, you picked me up in the Raptor and you were, you had a big smile on your face. I think you’d only had it for a couple weeks, maybe a month- Yeah … or something like that. You had really been having a fun time with it.

And they’re an, they’re an impressive vehicle, um, on mixed terrain. When, in t- 2020, um, when I was here dur- when COVID was just kicking off, the day b- the day I left for the airport I got a chance to drive the Ranger Raptor at speed at a test track here in South Africa, and I was really impressed for a factory mid-size vehicle, uh, that it performed that well.

So, so yeah, really good.

Jess: 100%, you know? And then, look, I had the Hilux with it, um, so obviously I was enjoying both worlds- Yeah … but, uh, somebody decided to, to take, to take my Hilux away from me. Yeah. So, so yeah, we, so we’ll sit back and we’ll wait, um, and see, and let’s see how it pans out, you know? Yeah. So, so yeah, I’m en- I’m [00:22:00] enjoying it as it goes.

Scott Brady: So let, let’s talk a little bit, you’ve been able to travel a lot with your wife and with your two kids. Um, you, you and your story, you and your wife’s story is really special. You guys met when you were 13 years old, um, and you guys have now been together for a huge portion of your life. Um, how is it that you find- As a family, that you guys optimize backcountry travel, overland travel together.

How do you incorporate the kids? How do you, um, make the experience as enjoyable as possible for your family when you travel?

Jess: Well, look, the, the, the crazy part is because my son and my daughter have grown up with me, you know, so now when we travel, I mean, we, we literally… It’s almost like they know exactly what to do, you know?

Yeah. So, so, so they know exactly what to do when we get to a campsite. They know what to take out, they know what to put back. Everybody does their little piece. Um, it’s, it’s, it’s absolutely crazy. Mm-hmm. I mean, we, we, you know, when my son and I or, or the family travel together, um, they, [00:23:00] they now are getting big.

I mean, my son’s now 21, and my daughter’s 24. She’s just, she’s just moved out to the, with, with her boyfriend into a flat, which is very different because we’re a very close-knit family. Sure. Um-

Scott Brady: Which is something I’ve always just so respected about Your family in general.

Jess: Oh, thanks, man. So- Yeah. So, so the thing is, is now, now when we travel, we actually have to travel in two cars because- Yeah

uh, my son’s got, my son’s got a girlfriend and my- Oh … my daughter’s got a boyfriend. Yeah, sure. But it’s, it, it’s still great. Yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s still great. It makes things, it makes things interesting, you know? So, um, but up until that stage, y- you know, we, what we would, what we would do is we would have two roof tents on the vehicle because, you know, a lot of people say, “You know, I want a family roof tent,” but what people don’t realize is with the big, with the, with the big tents is you get to a stage where, where your kids, your kids are of six and seven and eight-

Scott Brady: Yeah

Jess: and, and they wanna be on their, in their own tent. You know, whether it’s a, whether it’s a dome tent or a roof tent or whatever it is- Yeah … they wanna be in their own tent. And, and the bigger tents, the, the very big tents [00:24:00] is, is… I say go to 1800, and then after that, the 2.2’s, the very big tents, it’s, they’re not that easy to sell.

Um, and- Or

Scott Brady: set up.

Jess: 100%, you know? Yeah. It’s more material, it’s more everything, it’s more weight, and not every vehicle can, can carry them, you know? So I always say to people, rather have two smaller tents-

Scott Brady: Mm-hmm …

Jess: and then, you know, if the kids move out, then they use their, their own tents, you know? So, but at this, at this stage, so what happens is we, we would, we traveled with two smaller tents, um, for a lot of our travels, um, that we did.

And, uh, yeah, that worked out pretty well, you know?

Scott Brady: And what, what do you think, um, when you look back on the time traveling with your wife and your kids, how did that change you as a person?

Jess: Oh, geez, you know, the thing is, is yeah, I think peop- you know, people don’t understand, you know, traveling, t- traveling with your kids and, and the nice part about it is if your kids enjoy what you enjoy, you know?

Mm-hmm. Um, and, and- And it

Scott Brady: seems like they do …

Jess: oh, they do, eh? You know, the thing is, you know, and, and that’s the, that’s the other thing is you always hope [00:25:00] that your kids enjoy what they do, and they have always. You know- Mm-hmm … he’s, he’s always enjoyed the moto- the motorbike side of things. Mm-hmm. He, he loves cars and he loves fishing, and then you g- you get to a stage where you’re scrambling to keep up with it, you know?

So, so it’s got its pros and its cons, and my daughter as well, I mean, they love, they love the outdoors, you know? Yeah. So, um, I think my wife would spend more, more time outdoors than indoors, you know? Yeah. So yeah, you know? So it is- But what

Scott Brady: a blessing for you that you’re n- you love- The outdoors, camping, overlanding, and your fa- your whole family loves it just as much as you do

Jess: 100%. You know, the, the thing is, is what people don’t realize in early days we could’ve, you know, we could’ve marketed it, marketed it, but we just, we just love, we just got passionate, you know, to, to see our products anywhere in the world. Yeah. You know, you- I’ve been to Vegas on the Strip, and I’ve seen my tents in Vegas.

You go to, you go to London, and you see the tents in London.

Scott Brady: Yeah

Jess: And then, and, and to chat to people around the world, and to, to, to, and, and, and to meet people like Paul, Paul, Paul May from, from E- [00:26:00] Equipped and stuff like that, and to meet yourself.

Scott Brady: Yep

Jess: Unbelievable people, so it’s, it’s been an absolute pleasure and an absolute, uh, a- adventure, you know?

And we, we- Yeah … yeah, to, to, to do the things we do, you know?

Scott Brady: Yeah, we’re so lucky. And that was actually how I met Paul Marsh too, because we were getting the, we were getting the Land Cruiser, or we were trying to get the Land Cruiser ready for Antarctica, and the, the outfit that was gonna do the work for us didn’t work out.

Um, and sure enough, Paul Marsh stepped up, showed up at the Ezyon shop, and we- … we got that thing ready for Antarctica in what? A couple weeks, yeah.

Jess: Well, Paul’s something spe- somebody special, and he, oh, he’s a very special person. Um, I chatted to him the other day. I chatted to him before Christmas. He was now, he was now in New Zealand on doing a trip to the historic cars again, him and Joe.

Um, so yeah, I mean, he’s- Yeah,

Scott Brady: they’re lovely people. And, and for those that are listening, Paul Marsh was on the podcast a couple times. We talked about 70 series Land Cruiser, and we also ha- did an [00:27:00] interview with Paul specifically. Um, so I’d recommend people listen to that, ’cause that, that guy’s forgotten more than I’ve ever learned in my life about overlanding, so he’s, he’s truly a legend.

Jess: Well, look, I think he’s 100%, and he’s, he, you know, he’s, he’s, he experiences… I don’t- I actually don’t know of somebody else’s that has that much experience- Yeah … on a mechanical side, and then on a, on a, on a trip side, you know?

Scott Brady: Yeah, he has them both. And ’cause sometimes you’ll find people that travel a lot, but they’re not very strong mechanically.

Correct Or people who are very effective as mechanics or as engineers, designers, but then they don’t have the travel experience, and, and Paul’s definitely one of those rare, rare ones that has it both in spades, so.

Jess: Correct. Correct. 100%.

Scott Brady: Yeah. Yeah. So continuing on the theme of family, uh, you get to work with your dad.

So your dad founded Ezyon And what would that be? Come, we’re coming on 50 years, right, aren’t we?

Jess: Yeah, so I mean, not quite [00:28:00] 50 years. Be 40 years last year.

Scott Brady: 40 years last year.

Jess: There we go So, so, so f- so it was 40, 40 years last year. Obviously we’ve been traveling a lot before that. Um, but so Easy On is, is, is 40 years old, so this year will be 41 years- Mm

which I think is quite a milestone.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Jess: Um, I think there’s very few companies, um, that, that are, that, that have, that have reached those milestones. Um, he’s, he’s getting on in years.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Jess: Um, still traveling, still traveling. His, his, his vehicle standing behind us- Yeah, the

Scott Brady: 300 series Land Cruiser behind us- So-

belongs to him. So thanks, Jack, for letting me borrow your car.

Jess: Yeah, so he’s, he’s, he’s still an avid traveler. Um, he’s got some trips planned this year. He’s going to Kgalagadi and stuff like that. It worries me a little bit because, I mean, he’s, he’s 86 this year, you know? Yeah. So, um, it does worry me a little bit, but he, he- You gotta do it, though

he, you gotta do it You gotta go … you gotta get out there. Um, and, and, and I don’t think anything will stop him. I think you must… It’ll only be funny, but you must probably die on the road, you know, so he, he’s still at it That’s probably

Scott Brady: what he hopes for. Doing something he loves,

Jess: right? Yeah. No, you [00:29:00] know, so we’ve got a very, very special bond.

I mean, uh, yeah, he’s got a very special place in my heart.

Scott Brady: Well, so talk to me a little bit about how did you start working with your dad? Did he, did he just have you doing the shipping or, like, how did you get into… ‘Cause now you run the business, so how did he bring you into the business? What do you think he did well that helped you get to the position that you are now?

Um, like how did that process start for you?

Jess: Well, look, in the, in, in those day, in those days we didn’t really have a choice, you know? So the thing is, is he, he loved the overlanding side of things. He owned a very big mail order company, one of the biggest mail order companies in Southern, in Southern Africa at the time.

Um, and he, he loved the overlanding side of things. So we started with the awning, the awnings. Um, we developed awnings. That’s where the

Scott Brady: name came from, then Easy

Jess: Awning. Correct. That’s why it’s called Easy

Scott Brady: Awning.

Jess: Easy Awning. Yeah. Yeah. And we’ve sold 300,000, uh, series 2000 awnings worldwide. Um, so it’s, it’s, it’s a good chunk of, of awnings.

Um, [00:30:00] but yeah, so he started, he started with that, and then obviously I, I love to do things with my hands, so I’ve always loved to work on stuff and, and, and whether it’s been motorbikes or cars or whatever it is, I’ve always liked to work on stuff. Um, so it was just a n- a natural progression that, that I started working in the factory.

Yeah. And in those days there was, there was only a few of us, so we started very small ’cause we… There was, there was no overlanding products in South Africa. There was no awnings in South Africa. Mm-hmm. Um, it was, it was very rare to see anything like that, you know? So we started very small and, and I used to work in the factory and I used to drill and I used to put things together.

Scott Brady: Amazing.

Jess: Um, so that’s basically how it started, you know?

Scott Brady: And, um, what, what do you feel like are the two or three things that you learned most from your dad? Like life lessons or how to run a business, what are the things that your dad you feel taught you most?

Jess: Wow. I don’t know if you can put two or three things in- Yeah, yeah.

You know, he’s an incredible businessman. Yeah, he is. He’s, he’s a absolute incredible businessman. Um, so, [00:31:00] so the thing is, is, and he’s a perfectionist, you know? If it’s, if it’s a millimeter skew, it’s skew. Um, it’s… He’s an absolute perfectionist. So, so I think all of those things, you know, that, that things need to be perfect and they need to be right- Mm

and it needs to be done right, I think that’s all, that all played, played a part of it. Um, and then he’s, be- because of all the, or because of his, the way his, his, his life evolved, um, he was so involved with, with things and, and, and, and you know, people laugh at me, but we had the first, um, bull bars on the vehicles in the early days that he made out of, he made out of pipes.

Yeah. And we used to have metal roof racks that we put together in the early s- 60s and 70s and stuff like that. Yeah. So he was forever building cars and for- forever building things, whether it was motor homes or boats or houses or stuff like that. So the engineering side of it just came completely natural, naturally to him, and he’s, he’s an engineer by trade.

So, um, all of those things I think, you know, obviously have stood us the good [00:32:00] s- the set of time. Yeah. And then he, he’s owned quite a few businesses, which also helped with the business side- Yeah … of things, you know? Yeah.

Scott Brady: I’ve noticed that about Afrikaners in general, is that they are v- they’re not only very industrious, but they, you know, they, they, uh, they have this, th- this term in Africa, Afrikaner makes a plan.

I mean, it … Like, you guys do, as a … Afrikaners in general, South Africans in general, are very self-reliant, so they just figure stuff out. Have you found that to be the case?

Jess: I think so. I think we always, I think we’ve always, we’ve always made a plan, you know? Uh, because, I mean, years ago, there wasn’t a thing that you could pick up a cellphone and get help, you know?

So you had to make a plan if, if- Yeah … if, if a suspension arm broke or something or broke, you know, whether you put a tire, piece of, a block of wood or whatever in it, you know? But I mean, my dad’s always said, “I mean, a problem’s not a problem. You need to just find a solution for it,” you know? Yeah. Um, and there’s thousands, there’s, there’s thousands of answers to one problem.

You just need to find that solution, you know? Mm. So I think, [00:33:00] I think South Africans are, are very much that, that way inclined, um, because they’ve had to make do with what they, what they, what they, what they’ve got, you know?

Scott Brady: Yeah. Well, and on the, on the topic of South Africa, um, what are your favorite… If you were to give someone a recommendation of your top three trips to do out of South Africa, like if somebody was to get a hold of Bruce with Overlanding with Bruce and hire one of his Hilux, what would be your top two or three trips that you would recommend people consider?

Jess: Well, Scott, you know what? Uh, South Africa is an absolutely amazing place. Yeah. I mean, and you know, like we were saying, you know, six hours and you’re, you’re in the bush and six hours, you’re at the coast. But look, obviously the two, the two top three places if you, if you wanted to go out of South Africa would be Namibia.

I mean, there’s parts of Namibia that are phenomenal, you know?

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Jess: Um, and then obviously Botswana, that everybody loves Botswana.

Scott Brady: Um- What, what area of Botswana do you like the most?

Jess: Look, I, I like, [00:34:00] I mean, I like Baines Baobabs and I like central Kalahari. Um, I like the bottom of central Kalahari, the top of central Kalahari.

Um, so personally I like, I like those two areas, you know, those three

Scott Brady: areas. That is a trip I’ve wanted to do is a trans-Kalahari. I’ve never done… I’ve been through the southern part of the Kalahari, but it would be neat to go all the way through the Kalahari. Yeah.

Jess: Yeah, I, I… You know, that’s a s- it’s, that, that, that, that, that’s got a special place.

Look, there’s, there’s often, you know, it’s, if you drive through the central Kalahari, there’s… You know, what people don’t realize is, you know, when we, when I go to the bush, it’s not about seeing the Big Five. Yes, if you see the Big Five, that’s great, you know? But obviously I’ve seen the Big Five a number of times.

Yeah. It’s about the small things. It’s about the mountains, it’s about the trees. Yeah. So there is sections of, of, of like the central Kalahari where you don’t see much wildlife, ’cause obviously there’s, there’s not a m- not a huge amount of water and stuff like that. But if you, if you just like, if you just wanna be out there in the bush and then it, it’s, you know, it’s an amazing place.

Yeah. Um, and then obviously Bru- I [00:35:00] mean, Bruce Turner would be the guy to speak to about Zimbabwe. I’ve done, I’ve done a lot of traveling like to the Matopos and to, to, to, um- All places in, in Zimbabwe, you know, whether you… So, but Zimbabwe’s also a very special place. Um, but yeah, so I would say Namibia, Botswana, and then Zimbabwe.

Um, you know, so if you wanna go to Mana Pools or whatever, uh, but you need- Yeah,

Scott Brady: I’ve heard that’s unbelievable …

Jess: 100%, you know? But you actually need to give yourself, you can’t do it in a week, you know? You need to give yourself a bit of time-

Scott Brady: Yeah …

Jess: to check it out, you know?

Scott Brady: That is one of the challenges with Africa, and on this current trip that I’m on, I just finally said, “Scott, you’re gonna have to break it up so you don’t have to rush.”

You know, ’cause I think I’ll be in Africa for six months- … over the, over the last 12 months, and- Yeah … and I still feel like I don’t have enough time. So, you know, there’s just so much to see, and, and this continent is so special, and the people are just beautiful here. They’re just r- y- you live in, you live in the Garden of Eden, you know?

Jess: [00:36:00] 100%. You know, that, that’s, and that’s the thing, you know? And, and some, sometimes we think we don’t, but we actually do, you know? Yeah. Because the, you just, I mean, you look at this, what’s around us, and you, and you, y- you take it in, and it’s, you, you actually get com- compul- you, you go, well, you, you don’t, you don’t actually, you don’t realize w- what you’ve actually got behind- Yeah

in, in, you know, behind you, you know?

Scott Brady: So part of your early life as well, you were, you were in the military and if I recall correctly, you served in Angola. Um, so first of all, thank you for the service that you gave to your country. You and I are both veterans. It’s nothing. You had a harder time of it than I did, um, you know, having to go to war in, in another land.

But how do you feel like the, the military changed you? What did you learn from your time in the service?

Jess: Wow. You know, the thing is, is we didn’t have a choice, you know? So we basically, you know, you went to a train station, they stuck you in a train, and off you went, and you, you ended up at your camp and then, and you g- you got shipped [00:37:00] around.

But I think y- the, the crazy part is, is it teaches you life skills, you know? Yeah. Um, y- because up until that stage, obviously you’re staying with your parents and you’re very mommy cuddled and stuff like that, and it, it definitely teaches you life skills, you know? And those life skills, I think help you through your life, you know, whether it’s, whether it’s ironing your own clothes or whatever it is, you know?

I think, I think the, I think the Army is, is, uh, indirectly it, it teaches you, it breaks you down and, and build, and builds you back up. Mm-hmm. You know? Um, look, I lost my l- my zest for guns and stuff like that, but, but so be it, you know? Not, not everybody does, but I did, you know? So, um-

Scott Brady: Which is totally understandable, right?

Jess: Well, I s- I suppose so, you know? I suppose so, you know? So, so but yes, it, it, you know, you make friendships that can’t be broken and, um, it, uh, it, it is what it is, you know?

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Jess: So yeah.

Scott Brady: No, I, I feel the same way. It just, it… I felt like I was a, you [00:38:00] know, a, a ship with a lot of potential, but no rudder. So I was just being blown wherever the wind was taking me at 19 years old.

So yeah, going in the military made a big difference in my life.

Jess: Yeah. You know, the, the crazy part is now, I mean, I look at it, it is two years of my life and it, and it felt like an eternity, you know? Yeah. And now two years of my life goes by so fast, you know? It’s, it’s just, it’s just amazing how, how when you’re in the military it takes, it takes so long, you know?

Scott Brady: So. Yeah. And I’ve heard that, um, part of the reason for how we, it feels like things take so long when you’re young compared to when you’re older, two factors, and I find this interesting. So when you’re 19 years old, you’ve got 60 years of your life ahead of you.

Jess: Mm.

Scott Brady: When you’re 60 years old, you’ve only, you’ve, you’ve lived 80% of your life, just about.

True. So, or 70, 70% of your life, whereas when you’re that young, you’ve only lived 15, 20% of [00:39:00] your life. So the fact that you have so much life left, it feels like time moves more slowly. And the other thing that I heard, and this one was the most interesting, is, is that- When you’re young, you’re always experiencing something new.

You’re, every day, you’re learning something new. You’re trying something new. You, you get on a motorcycle for the first time, or you kiss a girl for the first time, or you, or you go to your, on your first train ride, or y- you, you learn something new about science for the first time. And so because we’re learning and we’re experiencing so much, we condense more into a smaller amount of time.

So you actually feel like time passes more slowly ’cause you’re experiencing so much. Whereas I think what happens to us when we get a little bit older is we stop Being such a student, we don’t learn as much and we don’t try as many new things and so then that feels like time is just f- ’cause every day is like Groundhog Day.

You get up at 6:00 o’clock in the morning, you go to work, y- you get the same thing for [00:40:00] lunch, you come home, you watch the same television show, and then it’s rinse, wash, repeat. So it feels like time has flown by ’cause you’ve not done much. And I think that, you know, when I first heard that I, that really reminded me that, like, if we want life to feel more rich or for life to slow down a little bit, let’s do more interesting things, do new things,

Jess: so- Well, it makes sense.

It definitely makes sense.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Jess: You know? Yeah. That’s why y’all need to come out more.

Scott Brady: Well, I love being here, for sure, every time. So, um, if you were to give some advice to someone that is new to overlanding and, uh, they’re getting ready to, to buy their first vehicle and do their first series of modifications, um, what would be the first, you know, three or four pieces of advice that you would give to someone that was brand new?

Or, as another way to say it, if you could go back in time to your 25-year-old self and say, “Hey, listen, my boy, I’ve got a couple pieces of advice around travel,” what would [00:41:00] you tell yourself?

Jess: Well, look, the scary thing is, is that’s, like, what, what my daughter and my son, ’cause they’ve, they’ve done some trips now on their own, and I’ve said to them, y- “You actually don’t need much.”

You know, and I was chatting to Bruce Turner from, from Overlanding with Bruce the other day, and we were saying, you know, we went, we went out with, with, with a vehicle with a cooler box-

Scott Brady: Yeah …

Jess: and, and a few things, and you don’t, you don’t need much. All I can say to people is you must just buy the things that you feel are, are beneficial because you walk into a, a four-wheel drive store or whatever and th- they can sell you…

I mean, there’s, it’s ridiculous what you can get now. I mean, you can, you can get an oven for the back of your vehicle or whatever. Yeah. And it’s, it’s, it’s abso- you don’t need all that stuff, you know? Right. So you buy the thing that you want, whether it’s a dome tent or whether it’s a roof tent, buy, buy the initial thing that, that you need to- Yeah

to, obviously, just to get out there, and then go to one or two small places. You don’t have to go far. Just go, just go down the road. Go to, [00:42:00] go, go down the road, go to a campsite and camp, and then say, “Well, maybe we need an awning, or maybe we need a, a different pot,” or what… Because a lot of the times, a lot of the times, I mean, my dad, for example, um, when he, the first trip that he did through Africa, he took so much stuff with him, and if you climb in his vehicles now, all that stuff is gone, you know?

And you, and it’s not like- Yeah,

Scott Brady: his 300 series is, I mean, it’s very simple. 100%, yeah. A nice rack, a, a comfortable roof tent- Well organized on the inside and that’s it

Jess: 100%. And you, and you don’t need all that stuff, you know? And, and, and the sad, the, well, the sad or the good thing is in, in, in the old days, you know, there was no help available.

Yeah But there’s so much help and you can chat to s- if, if you run into trouble, generally you can get, you can get help.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Jess: Um, so buy, just buy the thing that you think y- that you need, and then build, and then build from there. Yeah Because most of the times, even if you buy chairs or whatever, you go out and think, “Oh, these, these aren’t what I need,” or, “They don’t pack nicely in the car,” whatever.

Yeah. So buy, start small and [00:43:00] then, and then grow. And it doesn’t, it doesn’t have to be… I mean, like my s- my, my son was saying to me the other day, he can’t get the fridge into his car. So I said to him, “My boy, you don’t need the fridge actually, you know? You’re going for two days. You know, just, uh, make a plan, you know?”

Scott Brady: Yeah. Get a small little cooler, whatever.

Jess: Ex- exactly. Yeah.

Scott Brady: You know? And it totally works, absolutely. Yeah. Well, no, that’s great advice, Jess, and I, and I appreciate, appreciate that. So, um, when someone is also, just because you spend so much time designing product, when someone is looking at a roof tent, what do you feel are the things that people need to look for to make sure that they have a good experience?

Even if they’re not buying an Eze- hundert, if they’re buying some other brand, what do you think are some of the most important core attributes of a high quality tent?

Jess: Well, look, you know, the, yeah, like, like I was saying, you know, things have changed and obviously people want things lighter and lighter and lighter and lighter.

But- The core things for any, any good [00:44:00] product is first of all, you need to, you need to buy… Well, y- I would say you need to buy a product that the company’s been around for a, for a bit of time.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Jess: Because if you have a problem with it, obviously, obviously it, it would be able to get fixed. ‘Cause a lot of the times m- a lot of these times the companies come and go, and you can’t get parts, and you can’t get stuff for it.

So that’s the, that’s… I, I would look at that. Um- That makes

Scott Brady: sense …

Jess: buy it from a reputable company, um, what- whatever it is. Um, and then, and then if you wanna get into the roof tent game, even buy a secondhand roof tent, and go out there and see if it’s for you. Because-

Scott Brady: Yeah …

Jess: because roof tents aren’t, aren’t for everybody.

Um, look, obviously I sell them, and I make them, and I love them- Yeah … but they’re not, they’re not for everybody.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Jess: So, so you st- st- you start small. Buy, buy a secondhand roof, roof tent, and then, and then, and then build yourself. But

Scott Brady: the thing- Or go with, or go with something smaller than what you think you need.

I, one of the things I notice that people do with roof tents is that they, they buy the biggest one that’ll fit [00:45:00] on the top of their truck, and they’re so much more expensive and so much heavier. Um, you know, start with, I mean, typically a 1400 for two people is pretty ideal in my mind.

Jess: Well, that’s the… You know, the crazy part is when we started roof tents, we made a 1050, and then we made a 1200, and then we made the 1400- Yeah

which obviously the, uh, is around the world now, yeah? But the thing is with roof tents is you, you can’t fall off it. Yeah. You know? So the thing is, is so if you’re gonna sleep in a roof tent, you know, you, you, you… So you’re using up that 1400 space.

Scott Brady: Right.

Jess: So you basically got a double bed-

Scott Brady: Yeah …

Jess: but normally you leave a little bit of space on the edge that you don’t fall off.

Right. And I say to people, you know, some… A l- often people say to me, “Listen, I’ve got a family. I wanna buy a family tent. You know, will, will we fit?” So I go, “Listen, what you do is…” And not, not just for my tents, what you do is mark it out on the floor what the size of the mattress is, and then lie in it as a family, and go, “Okay, this is perfect for us.”

You know?

Scott Brady: Yeah, sure.

Jess: Um, but for two people, you definitely don’t [00:46:00] need more than a 1400- Yeah … because, like I say, you can’t, you can’t fall out. And, and yeah, it, it, it… If you go too big, um, you, you, you, you end up with a lot of, a lot of other problems, you know? Then your awning doesn’t fit, and then this, you know, that, the, the…

it hangs over the side, and

Scott Brady: then when you go- Or you can’t put fuel up there or whatever else. You can’t add extra accessories, yeah.

Jess: 100%, you know?

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Jess: 100%.

Scott Brady: Oh, that’s good, that’s really good advice around roof tents. They’ve become so incredibly popular, and now you can get any kind of roof tent that you want.

And just last night I was spending some time in a prototype that you’ve developed of a different style of roof tent. So it’s just very… It’s been very neat to see the amount of innovation. So now people can really find a tent that best suits their needs, um, as opposed to, like, kind of a one-size-fits-all.

Jess: Yeah. Look, I mean, our range of roof tents has grown astronomically. Yeah. And we try and make roof tents for everything. Obviously, you know, you don’t have to have a four-wheel drive to have a roof tent. You know, more and more people in, in [00:47:00] Europe and stuff are, are, they’re using them on normal vehicles. So you don’t have to have a four-wheel drive.

Yeah. You can actually fit a roof tent to, to anything that you want. Um, and that’s, and that makes it, it, it’s nice and accessible for everybody, you know?

Scott Brady: Yeah. So, uh, looking, looking towards the future, what, uh, what kind of travels do you have planned for yourself? What would be your dream trip, Jess? If you could go do anything in the world, what, what would you like to do?

Jess: Wow. Look, my, my… Look, I, I’d like to do, I’d like to do, to go, to go back to South America again-

Scott Brady: Yeah …

Jess: um, and, and spend some time in South America. Um, you know, I’ve, I’ve only been in and out. Obviously, Dad traveled through it. Um, I find the people f- you know, phenomenal, and I just… It, it’s still, it’s still got those, those grassroots feeling, you know.

Um, so I’d like to, to go back to South America if I can, you know. Obviously, on this side of the planet I’ve got, I’ve got a trip planned up to, to Mana Pools and stuff like that, [00:48:00] um, for the end of the year. Um- Nice … and then, and then we’ll, we’ll, we’ll see, you know. Um, we’ll see where we go, you know.

Scott Brady: Ah. Well, that, I look forward to seeing your updates from all of those adventures.

Jess, thank you so much for the time today. Um, you’re a dear friend. I have such respect for what you and your dad have built. Um, of course, for me, I also am so grateful for, um, th- that initial support, um, you know, through Nathan and through Paul of providing the two roof tents that I used to go up to the Arctic Ocean, um, with that Tacoma so long ago.

Um, so I, I wouldn’t have the business that I do, and I wouldn’t be able to have this podcast without people like you and your dad and Paul that, uh, believed in me very early on. So I appreciate that. Thank you

Jess: for that. Oh, Scott, thanks a million, man. Yeah. It r- it means a lot to me. And look, you’ve, obviously you’ve, you’re like a brother to me.

So- Yeah … so thank you very much, man. [00:49:00]

Scott Brady: Jess- Thank you … it’s

Jess: been a

Scott Brady: pleasure.

Jess: Thank you, sir. And

Scott Brady: we thank you all for listening, and we’ll talk to you next time.