Getting Electric with Rivian, Hummer, and Ford

Show Notes for Podcast #119 

Matt Scott and Scott Brady discuss the future of electric vehicles and rundown their thoughts on the Rivian, Hummer and Ford Lightning.

Host Bios: 

Scott Brady

Scott Brady is an adventurer, author, and publisher, and the first person in history to cross all seven continents. Brady is executive publisher of the Overland Collective, home to Overland Journal, the Overland Journal Podcast, and expeditionportal.com—the world’s largest vehicle-dependent adventure community. Scott wrote Overlanding 101 (Simon & Schuster) and is currently riding around the world on his BMW GS. He also led Expeditions 7, the first expedition to drive the same vehicle on all seven continents. Brady’s polar crossings include Antarctica and a south–north crossing of the Greenland ice sheet. Scott is a fellow of the Explorers Club and lives in Prescott, Arizona.

Matthew Scott

Matthew is a leading expert in automotive adventure. He has extensively explored the world’s most remote places by 4WD and is considered an industry authority on overland travel. He is the only American to ever become an editor of a major Australian 4WD publication and has over 15 years of competitive auto racing experience. @mattexplore

Overland Testing of the R1T

Overland testing Hummer EV

Our No Compromise Clause: We carefully screen all contributors to make sure they are independent and impartial. We never have and never will accept advertorial, and we do not allow advertising to influence our product or destination reviews.

Transcript

Scott Brady: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Overland Journal Podcast. I am your host, Scott Brady, and I’m here with my illustrious co-host, Matt Scott

Matt Scott: I’m here to be opinionated today.

Scott Brady: Just today?

Matt Scott: Yeah.

Scott Brady: Just- So all of the other pod- Just today … just all of the other podcasts was not

Matt Scott: opinion- That was nothing. That was nothing- … because today we’re talking about EVs, and one of them is a Hummer.

And I’ve taken my gloves off.

Scott Brady: So stay tuned, folks. Yeah. This is, it’s gonna get, uh, rowdy on the Overland Journal Podcast. And a special thanks to Nimbl Vehicles for supporting this week’s podcast. Nimbl Vehicles has been the leading manufacturer of extreme expedition vehicles since 2019. The Nimbl Evolution is the ultimate vehicle for beginning overlanders and extreme adventurers alike.

The proprietary [00:01:00] lightweight aluminum flatbed combined with a luxurious habitat allows you to confidently go where others only dream of. Built on any one ton chassis or larger with an off-roading package, 75 gallons of fresh water, over 1,000 watts of solar, and over 1,000 amp hours of lithium ion batteries.

You can expect to be off the grid for extended periods of time. To find out more information, visit nimblvehicles.com online, or you can email [email protected] for more information. Thanks again, Nimbl. Talk about a couple things today before we get started. First of all, we, we like to showcase small businesses on occasion.

Uh, this is a fun one. So This is High Road. Um, they make a… Like, it’s pretty much like a firewood- Yeah, it’s a

Matt Scott: firewood carrier …

Scott Brady: firewood

Matt Scott: carrier, but- It’s really nice. Yeah. Um, we took one to Alaska, actually. We bought it at the Northwest Overland Rally. We didn’t [00:02:00] have one. We were under the impression that we were gonna have campfires, and we didn’t know we were walking into bugpocalypse.

But, um, you know, it was floating around in this box on the back that we call the shed for, you know, 10,000 miles- Yep … probably 2,000 miles of dirt. Looks great.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Matt Scott: And it has this little, uh, skirt almost-

Scott Brady: Yep …

Matt Scott: that you kinda cinch in when, when you put your firewood in, and it keeps all of the crud-

Scott Brady: Yep …

Matt Scott: from the firewood that…

You know, like, when you’re going down the road, like, the firewood might just be… Like, let’s say you’re buying stuff from a gas station, usually pretty clean. Um, you get stuff from, uh, the campsite you were just at- Yep … ’cause, you know, you’re scavenging or whatever, and y- you do need to be mindful of where you transport firewood.

That’s a big thing in the West, actually- Yeah … where we’re at now, so keep that in mind. But, um, it just keeps all the crud as you’re… as it’s going down the road.

Scott Brady: Yep.

Matt Scott: Um, you know, stuff, little, little bits and pieces break off, and dust gets created, and organic matter kinda goes everywhere. It keeps it all together, and it’s really nice.

Scott Brady: Yeah, I [00:03:00] think it’s, uh… And it’s made in the USA. It’s a small business. It’s just kind of a fun story. The guy who started the business, he actually was my sister’s neighbor, and he, he meets my sister because he gets her copy of Overland Journal, and he walks- Yeah. Awesome … over to the house. You know, and, and, uh, so it’s just kind of fun to see small businesses like this pop up.

You could also use it as a, as an entry mat to a tent. Yeah. Um, you could use it as, as kind of a rollout, uh, mat for working on your car. So it, it’s got some cool features, so yeah, High Road, nice job on that. It’s nice, nice little product. Yeah, cool little gadget. Yeah, totally.

Matt Scott: Yeah.

Scott Brady: And speaking of cool little gadgets, what’s, what’s been new for you recently?

Any, any interesting little trips or events or-

Matt Scott: We went to this Porsche event called Luftgekühlt.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Matt Scott: Um, and that basically just means air-cooled auf Deutsch.

Scott Brady: All, all I heard was kult at the end.

Matt Scott: Uh, yeah. Yeah,gekühlt. Luftgekühlt. Gekühlt. Um, yeah, so it’s put on by Patrick [00:04:00] Long, who’s, um, a, well, now former Porsche factory race driver.

I think he was the longest-serving factory driver for Porsche, started and finished his career with them. The guy eats, sleeps, and breathes Porsche. And this is the eighth Luftgekühlt, and it’s basically a, a, I would call it an artistic, you know, assembly of air-cooled Porsches. Um, and what air-cooled Porsches are is they’re older Porsches, pre-1998, 911s, um, 914s, 912s.

You know, then you get into the race cars, the 917s, 908s, and, and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. But anyways, the, the cylinders actually cooled- By air. So they have little fins on them, and they’re really… They’re this kinda, uh… A, a lot of people would call them, you know, mechanical works of art.

Scott Brady: For

Matt Scott: sure. Um- They’re beautiful

they’re, they’re, they’re very simple in their engineering, but very elegant. Um, and there’s [00:05:00] this huge, huge crazy following for air-cooled Porsches. Um, that’s my latest thing that I’ve kinda gone down the rabbit hole on.

Scott Brady: Yeah. I mean, the one that you have is just gorgeous.

Matt Scott: Yeah.

Scott Brady: It’s

Matt Scott: gorgeous. Yeah. I mean, I, I, I love that car.

Um, so-

Scott Brady: It’s so simple, too. It doesn’t, it’s not flashy. It seems very honest, and it seems like- Yeah … it would be a good investment. I mean, I don’t know anything about them, but…

Matt Scott: There’s definitely people that, that, um, you know, play in the, the, the automotive investment space in Porsches. I think it’s, it’s a large enough community, and you have…

You kinda have a Porsche for everyone, and I think what it comes back to is that they’re still functional vehicles.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Matt Scott: Um, you know. Old Jaguars are fan- are, are beautiful- Yeah … but they don’t really work that well. That’s

Scott Brady: right.

Matt Scott: Old Triumphs, they don’t really… Old just British stuff doesn’t really work that well from, from the period, where the German stuff, um, it works.

It’s still drivable. I- it, it’s, it’s very much like almost like the Land Cruiser community. I feel like [00:06:00] people are drawn to Land Cruisers because they want to actually use the vehicle, not just appreciate it as a, as a status item or a- Sure … or a piece of art, cue Land Rover in the background.

Scott Brady: Cue t- backdro- backdrop for Hunter, yeah.

But, but, but there’s a lot, there’s

Matt Scott: a lot

Scott Brady: going on.

Matt Scott: No,

Scott Brady: there’s

Matt Scott: a, there’s a

Scott Brady: reason why

Matt Scott: it’s- Um, there’s a lot of- …

Scott Brady: parked, parked as art in the

Matt Scott: coffee area … yeah, I, you know, I love Land Rovers, and I love British cars and, and all that kinda stuff. But, you know, the… I, I think, uh, there’s just all of these fascinating people that are into air-cooled Porsches.

Um, and it’s, it’s, you know, it’s one of those events that sells out, and people are trying to- Yeah … you know, buy tickets off the, off the Porsche black market or-

Scott Brady: Yeah, sure …

Matt Scott: or whatever. Um, you know, and there’s some, there’s- There’s cars that were built in a garage there that people appreciate just as much as, um,

Scott Brady: you know- Some conc- concourse-ready, yeah

Matt Scott: yeah, yeah. So, I mean, you know Bruce Meyer had his… He’s the chairman of the Petersen Foundation, [00:07:00] and he had his, his new RSR, I think it was a ’73 RSR that Hurley Haywood drove. That’s a hugely historic, significant car, worth I don’t even know-

Scott Brady: The squillions?

Matt Scott: Yeah,

Scott Brady: sure …

Matt Scott: squillions … sure. You know, and that’s on display, and then there’s like a Porsche 908 there.

And then, you know, you’re walking around and you’re talking to the people that have history with these cars. You know, there’s a few thousand people that go to the event. I think they purposely kinda cap it, and, um, boy, it was great. I, I, I went with Auto Car Club, um, my buddy Eli there that, that owns that, and it, it was kinda cool to, to be able to dive into that world, um, with people that have been in it for a while.

Mm-hmm. And, uh, yeah, that was super fun. I’ve never seen more Leicas there. I, I’ve never seen Leica… Well, one, I’ve never seen an event where there were just so many cameras. They kinda, one of the guys that helps put it on, Jeff Swart, is a commercial director-photographer, has done a lot of work for Porsche and all these things, and he sets the cars up in a almost [00:08:00] cinematic way.

Like, he’s creating a scene for people to interpret in their own way to photograph. And there’s no, like, competition, there’s no whatever. It’s just all of these fantastic photos happen from this event. Mm-hmm. Um, it, it was, it was cool to see Leicas, um, outnumber anything else. Like, maybe I saw a Canon.

Scott Brady: Yeah,

Matt Scott: sure.

The guys actually working the show, taking real photos- … th- they’re the ones that had Canons and Nikons and Sonys, but- Yeah,

Scott Brady: sure …

Matt Scott: all the other guys that are just there kinda hanging out and i- it’s a passion thing for them.

Scott Brady: For sure.

Matt Scott: Um, that was really cool.

Scott Brady: Well, and speaking of that, I think that that’s, that’s one- Yeah, yeah

Matt Scott: that’s

Scott Brady: a recent- I

Matt Scott: finally- …

Scott Brady: recent acquisition for you … I

Matt Scott: finally, I finally gave the boot to Canon. Um, not for any particular reason other than the new Leica SL2 is just, I, I really like it.

Scott Brady: It’s gorgeous. Gorgeous

Matt Scott: The, the lenses are class-leading, and I think that’s the big thing that I like with Leica is that you can invest in a lens, and they raise the prices each year.[00:09:00]

So you can keep a lens for 10… I’ve, I’ve Leica lenses I’ve had for 10 years that I bought for a couple hundred bucks used, but the market is kinda always moving up on them.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Matt Scott: Um, so they don’t get this digital, the lenses themselves don’t get this digital rot.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Matt Scott: You know, and now I, I went and I bought a bunch of new Canon EF glass and a 5D Mark IV for my last camera, and it’s like all useless because everything’s switched to R.

And yeah, they have adapters and that kinda stuff, but- It’s the next best thing, right? So with the L Mount Alliance, which is Sony… Or sorry, Sigma, Panasonic, and Leica for their mirrorless SLR-style cameras. Mm-hmm. I know they’re not SLRs, but I mean, what, what else would you call the form factor? You have your rangefinders, and then you have your just mirrorless cameras, I guess.

Scott Brady: Yeah,

Matt Scott: they call

Scott Brady: them mirrorless.

Matt Scott: Um, you know, that kinda gave me the confidence to, uh, to step into that system.

Scott Brady: What do you think of the image quality [00:10:00] so far?

Matt Scott: Fantastic. You know, the, it, it’s-

Scott Brady: I was impressed with how long of a reach your tele zoom had.

Matt Scott: Yeah, 90 to, 90 to 280. So I,

Scott Brady: I want- I’ve never seen that number on a Leica glass before.

Matt Scott: Yeah, yeah. I

Scott Brady: mean, I’m sure that they’ve made them. I

Matt Scott: just- It’s heavy, and you could, you could- Yeah, it looks- … chop wood with it. It

Scott Brady: looks like it … uh, use it as a hammer. Yeah. Um, you know, I mean, I have the 50 1.4, which

Matt Scott: in

Leica world is a Summilux, and it’s, like-

Scott Brady: It’s huge …

Matt Scott: it’s huge. I mean, it’s like- Yeah … the size of, like, one of the big bean cans- … but then taller. Yeah. Um, but yeah, that lens just sees in the dark, and, and the way the… A- all of the lenses are apochromatic, APO, I think I’m-

Scott Brady: Yeah, sure …

Matt Scott: I think I’m enunciating that right.

Um, but it means basically that when you shoot them wide open, the contrast on them is just absolutely wonderful. Right. So for me, just taking pictures of Porsches and stuff in my garage and, you know, my travels- Your dog, sure … and, and my dog. Yeah. Um, yeah, [00:11:00] I mean, the image quality of, of, of my dog’s Instagram-

all of five people that, in my family that follow it, um, yeah, has gone up dramatically. So, um-

Scott Brady: But you wanna do more shooting again,

Matt Scott: which is fun, so. Yeah, I wanna, I wanna get, get, get back into some of that stuff. Yeah. So, you know, it’s, it’s about finding the tool that inspires you. To actually kind of get out there and- Yep

and do it, um, you know. They don’t make sense, but I’m not looking for something that makes sense, and that’s Leica. It’s, it’s

Scott Brady: art. So, yeah. It’s art, so art doesn’t have to make sense.

Matt Scott: Yeah. So that’s been kind of my, my latest rabbit hole, and then- Nice … finding all of the vintage Rimowa Tropicana cases for everything to go in.

Rimowa is now, like, the, the bougie, uh, luggage company. Um, but before they were in many ways kind of like the German Pelican.

Scott Brady: Yeah, sure.

Matt Scott: I don’t know, know how else to say it, and they had this Tropicana line, which was, uh, you know, cases for [00:12:00] cameras and, uh, sensitive equipment and whatever. Sure. And with the exchange rate being crazy good right now, buying stuff out of Europe, um, I’ve been snagging these cases for not that much more than what you’d pay for Pelican cases, and they’re-

Scott Brady: Right

Matt Scott: yeah.

Scott Brady: Awesome.

Matt Scott: I think.

Scott Brady: It’s an incredible camera. It was so neat to see it. Yeah. I, I can

Matt Scott: see why. It’s just simple. Like, I don’t know how to use, like, the five million buttons that are on the back of the Canon. I use, like, the menu button. I use the play button. Yeah. And then they have, like, a function button.

There’s three buttons on the back of the Leica.

Scott Brady: That’s it.

Matt Scott: That’s it.

Scott Brady: That’s all

Matt Scott: you need. That’s, that’s kind of their thing.

Scott Brady: Don’t overcomplicate it.

Matt Scott: Um, you know, and also spending most of my time with the rangefinders and, and in that Leica kind of menu ecosystem or whatever, just how things work, um,

Scott Brady: yeah.

All makes sense to you.

Matt Scott: It all makes sense.

Scott Brady: Cool.

Matt Scott: I don’t know.

Scott Brady: Nice.

Matt Scott: What are you doing? What’s your, what’s your gadgety-

Scott Brady: Um- …

Matt Scott: obsession?

Scott Brady: Well, I would say that in all reality it has been to reduce the [00:13:00] number of gadgets. That has- Okay, so we’re

Matt Scott: on different programs, but

Scott Brady: yeah. That has been my, that has been my approach for probably-

Matt Scott: You’ve been on that for a while now.

Scott Brady: Yeah. Well, definitely, definitely several years, but it just feels like it’s ramping up because we, we know that- Um, when you own something, it owns a part of you, too. Yeah. So the number of vehicles that you have or the number of things that you have, they all require a degree of attention to keep them in good condition and, um, or you feel obligated to use it or-

Matt Scott: Yeah, and sometimes if you don’t use them, they just kinda, like they, they quickly deteriorate.

Scott Brady: They, they really do. Uh, so like even, even my camera kit is, is really dwindled down- Yeah … and I’ve, I’ve got it into like a just a small little zipper case- Mm … that has everything that I need in order to capture the images that I need, and then a small video production kit that I use when I’m in the field.

So that feels good to just have that really [00:14:00] minimized and, yeah, like I’ve, I’ve just gotten rid of a ton of stuff. Well, and,

Matt Scott: and you’re, you’re gonna get back to traveling like

Scott Brady: you used to. That’s the thing for me is I wanna be able to leave without those encumbrances. Yeah. And I mean, I really do take an enormous amount of joy out of the sailboat, so- Yeah

and that, that would, that’s definitely become- I think, I think- … become my hobby …

Matt Scott: stuff is a problem when it doesn’t give you experiences.

Scott Brady: Yeah. True. You know? So

Matt Scott: true. Um-

Scott Brady: So

Matt Scott: true … just, just like I kinda reversed course on a lot of the, like, car collecting-

Scott Brady: Mm …

Matt Scott: uh, motorcycle collecting thing that I was on. Um, you know, I made some money on it, but- It served

Scott Brady: you well,

Matt Scott: yeah.

Yeah. Sure. I, I, you know, I, I, I bought the right stuff at the right time and, you know, like to think I got rid of a lot of the stuff at the right time. Um, but the s- it, it didn’t, it didn’t serve any purpose ’cause you couldn’t really, you couldn’t go out and, you know, put- 20,000 miles on a car or something, you know, you’re kinda trying to preserve [00:15:00] or increase the value of something.

Yeah. And that’s really been a thing during the pandemic. Um, you know, we saw like a frenzy-

Scott Brady: It was crazy …

Matt Scott: anything automotive. Of, of people just collecting stuff.

Scott Brady: It was crazy.

Matt Scott: To collect stuff because they couldn’t have the experiences. Yeah. And what’s the next best thing for serotonin is to have that little quick hit- Some-

of buying something …

Scott Brady: gadget. Yeah, exactly.

Matt Scott: Yeah, yeah.

Scott Brady: So that’s been g- it’s been good to just kind of realize how little I need, and trying to c- keep working on that. I find that for me, that is- Mm … really helpful. It’s, it’s really positive for me. Yeah, yeah. For me. So, ’cause time is… I realize that time is something that I’m very, uh, precious with now, so.

Matt Scott: Yeah, yeah. I mean, we should talk about buying more cars now.

Scott Brady: We should. In fact, we gotta talk about- EVs … EVs. Be- So the whole EV thing somehow has become politicized, which makes no sense to me. Yeah. It’s like how COVID became politicized. I mean, it’s like, [00:16:00] it’s like do you think the, do you think that the virus cares who you voted for?

Matt Scott: Yeah.

Scott Brady: But, but somehow-

Matt Scott: Identity politics are a bit of an issue.

Scott Brady: It is. And, and so w- both you and I feel, ’cause we’re both very moderate folks, we both feel like it’s very ridiculous that- Yeah … that we have to, um, either do a bunch of signaling or a bunch of shaming. The reality is, is that EVs have now become a political, a politically charged subject, but we really wanna talk about how they work in reality.

Yeah. So the majority of people that I’ve encountered that have a negative opinion of EVs have never driven one. Um, so that always makes me very suspect. Um, when you drive one, it is a very unique and oftentimes positive experience.

Matt Scott: I’ll toot my own horn. I, I’ve had some of the nicest pickup trucks you can buy.

I’ve had a TRX, I have a Prospector XL right now. Yeah. Like, I like- Yeah, you’ve

Scott Brady: had a Raptor. Yeah.

Matt Scott: The, the Rivian makes them [00:17:00] feel like a horse and buggy.

Scott Brady: Yeah. It’s no question.

Matt Scott: I’m not saying that I’m ready personally for an EV. I’ve gotta tow a trailer with a race car and that kinda stuff. It just doesn’t work for me right now.

It will But the Rivian is really special. Yeah,

Scott Brady: for

Matt Scott: sure. Like, I sat for, like, a half hour just underneath that car because you can put it into, like, your, your highest mode, and it has 15 inches of ground clearance. Yep. I don’t have that on 40s in my PXL.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Matt Scott: Um, and you can just crawl underneath it and just, like, look at it.

Yeah. And you’re like… Like, have you ever looked, been underneath a McLaren? You can see some, you, you can see some- Same

Scott Brady: engineers.

Matt Scott: Yeah … s- a lot of the same engineers and- Yeah … and how, um, how modern the manufacturing is. Yeah. There’s a lot of extrusions. Um, there’s, there’s a lot of… You know, everything’s aluminum to keep, to keep weight down.

Scott Brady: It’s also incredibly smooth.

Matt Scott: Yeah.

Scott Brady: So just from a- There’s

Matt Scott: nothing to hit underneath …

Scott Brady: something from a practical perspective that I encountered, [00:18:00] uh, was in the mud when I w- went with Bruce Dorn, and we went up towards the Grand Canyon. We were in this muddy, rutted area, and there were times that we were dragging the underside, but there was nothing to hang up- Catch

Matt Scott: on

Scott Brady: so it lit- it’s just kind of sliding like a, like a sled-

Matt Scott: Yeah …

Scott Brady: across any uneven surface or any high point of mud, and it would be the same thing in the snow. It would probably work brilliant in deep snow, um, as long as you could air the tires down enough-

Matt Scott: Yeah … ‘

Scott Brady: cause it’s heav- it is a heavy vehicle. But you can tell immediately how smooth the undercarriage is.

There’s no, no prop shafts, no transfer case, nothing hanging down, no frame rails hanging down.

Matt Scott: They’re just simpler. Super simple. I know that the, the technology in, you know… So, so here’s an interesting conversation to have. Um, overlanders are all about simplicity.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Matt Scott: You know, historically, that’s been the case.

We, we tend to gravitate towards vehicles we can work on ourselves. Maybe that’s gonna go out the window. Um, but you look at a, [00:19:00] a Land Cruiser, a Africa spec Land Cruiser. There are so many more components on that vehicle than on an EV. Yeah. I mean, think of every needle bearing inside of the engine. Think of every little component-

Scott Brady: Oh, yeah

Matt Scott: that goes into it. All

Scott Brady: the sensors.

Matt Scott: The s- everything.

Scott Brady: All the, all the fluids that are required and that you gotta keep inside the engine or keep inside a- Yeah … transmission or whatever. Um, Consumer Reports, and this is an important note in this conversation, Consumer Reports is cl- following this closely, and they’ve already determined, and these are early EVs, which are not gonna be as reliable as once they get to higher production volumes.

They’re already 50% less maintenance and service.

Matt Scott: Yeah.

Scott Brady: 50% less-

Matt Scott: 100%. I

Scott Brady: mean, it, it is- … than an internal combustion car.

Matt Scott: It is the future.

Scott Brady: The Rivian had one fluid to top off, and that was the windshield wiper fluid.

Matt Scott: Interesting. I know some EVs have a, um, like some of the [00:20:00] Mercedes EVs that I’ve looked at they have like a, a hydronic heating s- cooling system to, to heat the batteries in cold environments and- They do.

They

Scott Brady: do, and they’re fully sealed.

Matt Scott: Yeah. Yeah, and you don’t have to mess with them, like-

Scott Brady: You don’t. There’s nothing to check.

Matt Scott: It, it’s just like- They’re, they’re a lot simpler. They are. There’s, there’s like a couple of rotating components. I know that a lot of them have, you know, gearboxes and, you know, we’re still gonna have-

Scott Brady: Some of them do, and that’s probably what makes the Rivian so unique is that because it has four motors, it really has these four motor drive units.

Yeah. And then it has four CVs-

Matt Scott: Mm-hmm …

Scott Brady: that have to turn as well. Uh, and that’s kind of it.

Matt Scott: Yeah.

Scott Brady: That’s, there’s no transmission, no transfer case.

Matt Scott: It’s, it’s just, it’s gonna be fascinating to me. Like, I think, you know, when you’re looking at the truck space, how complicated… You know, you have this DEF injection system, you have the EGR.

Yeah. You have all of these, you know, to make them viable in a modern environment and [00:21:00] world, they’ve had to overcomplicate these engines so much to the point where they’re gonna overcomplicate themselves into obsolescence.

Scott Brady: Yeah. E- especially as people realize how simple EVs are. But it’s also n- important to note that there are going to be applications, um, even, uh, for us as overlanders, where an EV does not make sense any time in the near future.

And that’s, so for example, if you wanted to cross the Canning Stock- Mm … Route right now, uh, you couldn’t do that in an EV unless you brought along a trailer that had a giant generator in it with a bunch of fuel. You couldn’t do it-

Matt Scott: Yeah …

Scott Brady: in today’s day- Yeah … in today’s age. You know, so people will say, “Ah, bring along solar.”

When you do the calculations of the amount of solar area- The array

Matt Scott: that you would have to have

Scott Brady: Yeah. You couldn’t carry it.

Matt Scott: You couldn’t carry it.

Scott Brady: You couldn’t actually- Yeah … bring it in the vehicle. It’s so, it would be so ex- extensive, uh, to charge, to charge the vehicle. So there are absolutely applications.

Try to cross Africa, uh, with an EV. You’re just not gonna be able to find the [00:22:00] consistency-

Matt Scott: Yet. Yet.

Scott Brady: Yet. Yeah.

Matt Scott: You know, I think as-

Scott Brady: So right now, right now it’s not the case …

Matt Scott: I think as the cost of ownership on EVs goes down- Yeah … which it will because there’s fewer components to manufacture.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Matt Scott: You know what I mean?

Just think, think of the simplicity in the supply chain. How many components are in a transmission? How many components are in a transfer case? How many components are in a- Yeah … a modern… Like, think of like, like the Ford 6.7 is like the most complicated engine. It has two separate cooling systems for different aspects of the engine.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Matt Scott: Like, h- I wonder if in 10, 15 years we’re gonna get to the point where people just aren’t going to be able to service these, these trucks, you know? I mean, we’re, we’re arguably already at that point ’cause, like, that’s why people- You gotta take it to- … rip the DEF stuff off.

Scott Brady: And you gotta, or you gotta take it to a

Matt Scott: dealer.

Because it costs 10 grand to replace, you know, by the time you’re said and done with your pumps and your filter, you know, and- Yeah … and everything. It’s a big deal. It’s really expensive. It’s a [00:23:00] big deal. Um, you know, so- I, I’m just, I, I welcome it with open arms. And the first time you, you hit the skinny pedal on an EV-

Scott Brady: I know.

I just, I just wish anyone that’s listening that’s f- feeling the EV hate, please just go for a test drive. Yeah. ‘Cause people think with, with overlanding you gotta have all of this range, which is absolutely true. But if you look at, like, the Hummer EV, it has a 340-mile range. We decided to take one and to drive it across El Camino del Diablo.

Yeah. Now, El Camino del Diablo is the longest Overland route in the continental United States. Yeah. So that means it does not cross another paved road. It doesn’t, the road name doesn’t change. Um, it doesn’t go near any incorporated city. Um, most of the cell coverage that you have along the route is from Mexico.

Yeah. It goes right along the border wall. Um, it’s 150 miles of dirt, uh, [00:24:00] so it’s a very long, very remote multi-day adventure a- across the desert, and we decided to take the Hummer EV, and we did. We, we drove it from, we topped it off in Ajo. We actually stopped in a, in a little RV park- Well, ‘

Matt Scott: cause they

Scott Brady: had 50 amp

that had 50, 50 amp service. Yeah. So charged it up overnight while we stayed in a hotel and got some good sleep, and then the next morning we left early in the morning, uh, and we drove all day. In fact, we had so much range that we decided to take a couple little bypasses and, and other- Yeah … alternate routes up to Christmas Pass.

And, and we left the AC and the HVAC running the entire time. So 11% of the range was consumed by climate control and keeping the batteries and motor drive units cool- Okay … ’cause it was quite, quite warm. It got to about 100 degrees, uh, when we were crossing El Camino del Diablo.

Matt Scott: So they have to cool the batteries- They

Scott Brady: do

Matt Scott: not just heat them. ‘Cause I know that lithium- [00:25:00] It’s both … isn’t supposed to charge below freezing.

Scott Brady: Yeah, it’s both.

Matt Scott: Interesting.

Scott Brady: And the motor drive units need to be cooled as well. So we were in deep sand- Yeah, so they’re really working … which the, the highest consumption that we saw was in the deep sand.

Which remember, this stuff, all of these physics apply to internal combustion engines too. So if you had your, your Land Cruiser and you’re driving across El Camino del Diablo, your mire- miles per gallon are going to decrease in deep sand, um, approximately the same amount that they decrease for an EV.

Yeah. Um, so they’re … And the same with towing. People say EVs can’t tow. No, internal combustion engines, vehicles, they have the same towing impact, um, but you can just stop at more gas stations and just- Yeah, yeah … And, and also to the fair point of internal combustion, you can fill up in a few minutes.

Matt Scott: Yeah.

Scott Brady: Um, whereas it, even on a rapid charger, you’re talking 30 to 45 minutes.

Matt Scott: Interesting.

Scott Brady: So- So

Matt Scott: I guess there’s just so much capacity there, ’cause doesn’t the Hummer have like 130-

Scott Brady: It’s, it’s [00:26:00] gigante. It is a giant- It’s big … battery pack. And not only is it a giant battery pack, but then they also decided to give it a lot of range.

Yeah. 100 and, 340 miles of range. So it’s an even bigger battery pack- Yeah … because of that choice as well. Um, and it’s like a brick going down the wa- down the road. 35-inch tall tires. So yeah, it’s, it needs all that range.

Matt Scott: The, the performance on it looks great.

Scott Brady: And it is great.

Matt Scott: Um- Yeah,

Scott Brady: it’s fast.

Matt Scott: It is the ugliest car I’ve ever seen in my life Absolutely terrible.

Oh, no. It’s the only car that I’ve ever decided not to drive purely because, like I’m just like, I’m walking into it like I already hate it. Like, I’m not even gonna give it the chance.

Scott Brady: The thing that I don’t like about the Hummer the most is that angled part of the bed.

Matt Scott: Yeah.

Scott Brady: So it, it takes away … It’s like the Avalanche thing.

It, it makes zero sense to do that functionally. Now, they may do it for some aero [00:27:00] consideration, but it removes- Yeah … it removes the majority of the things that you wanna do with a tr- truck bed. You, you can’t put a camper inside it. You can’t … Like, what if you wanted to put a, an AT Habitat or a Go Fast Camper or- You

Matt Scott: can’t do anything with it.

Scott Brady: Yeah. They’re really … I, I don’t understand, and I don’t think that the angle thing does anything positive for the look either. ‘Cause if you look at the SUV Hummer, it’s a much more attractive vehicle.

Matt Scott: Do they have an SUV

Scott Brady: version of it? They do. They do.

Matt Scott: Mm.

Scott Brady: It’s not out yet. It’s coming soon. But, um … And there’s pictures of it on the internet.

It’s very … It’s a lot- They, they- … more handsome.

Matt Scott: So-

Scott Brady: There’s gonna be people who really like the way that that looks. Oh, God. Now, for me, the Rivian was … It was handsome, and it was … wasn’t offensive. It was just, like, really elegant vehicle to drive. And it was also … It wasn’t, like, soft looking. It also had some handsome characteristics to it- Yeah

[00:28:00] and, and all of that.

Matt Scott: I, I think the Rivian is functional but elegant. Like, I really like the design of it. I think the problem Rivian’s gonna have with their design is it’s taken them so long-

Scott Brady: True …

Matt Scott: to get out. You know?

Scott Brady: They’ve gotta be working on the next one. They have to.

Matt Scott: It, it almost feels- They’re gonna have-

like the truck is a little … I’m not saying that it’s outdated. That’s not what I’m trying to say. It’s, it’s, it’s very cool, but …

Scott Brady: I think for you and I, it is, because we’ve been looking at them for a long time.

Matt Scott: Like, when did they launch? 2000 … Yeah. They, they started getting renderings out in ‘

Scott Brady: 15,

’16. It’s

Matt Scott: kind of like the thing that happened with the Ford, the, the second generation Ford Raptor.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Matt Scott: Is they launched the new F-150, and they launched visually the Raptor as its, you know, halo aspirational car. But they didn’t come out with it for, like, two years or something like that. So by the time you actually saw it, you were like

That, that has been on every TV and [00:29:00] every, you know, like- Yeah … Ford, Ford advertises the F-150 really well, ’cause that’s, I mean, it’s the best-selling vehicle in the world.

Scott Brady: Yep.

Matt Scott: I wonder if there’s a little bit of the going on there with Rivian,

Scott Brady: like- It could be. I don’t … I think it’s mostly for you and I because- Yeah

I think it’s for people who care about the brand or was interested in the brand from the beginning. Um, we did really pay attention to that. Yeah. I think the average consumer … Like, when I meet people on the street when I’m driving the Rivian R1T, they are all just … They think it’s the coolest thing they’ve ever seen, and they’ve never seen one before.

Matt Scott: The headlights look fantastic. Yeah.

Scott Brady: And they, and it-

Matt Scott: They nailed the premium thing.

Scott Brady: They did. It, it, it- I’m telling you, it will… And let’s put it this way. It’s the only time in do- and I’ve been doing this for 20 years, it is the only time- Yeah … I’ve t- I’ve tried to buy a test vehicle.

Matt Scott: Yeah. I mean, it’s cool.

That’s it. And R- and Rivian- It’s the only time … and Rivian as a company is cool. Like, the people, the people behind Rivian, everybody that I’ve talked to is great. Like, I was just on the Rebelle Rally. I did Rebelle Rally [00:30:00] last year with the whole Rivian- Yep … crew. They’re all cool people. They, they all get out there and do it.

Like, they put their entire engineering staff through Bill Burke’s four-wheel drive training. They do. They do. They put all their people through that. Like, the vehicle works. It’s really fast. I still can’t get used to… I mean, this is all EVs. I can’t get used to the one-pedal driving.

Scott Brady: I like that.

Matt Scott: I get, I get a little carsick.

Oh, God. I’ve got some inner ear thing going on

Scott Brady: You do have to get used to it, though

Matt Scott: And as soon as you mod- Like, if you, if you’re at 30% throttle and you go to 27% throttle, that means the brakes are being applied. So you almost, and from what I’ve found, I didn’t drive it as much as you did, you almost have to use, like, the, the adaptive cruise because it’s kind of modulating things in the background that you’re, you then don’t have to micromanage.

Scott Brady: Yeah. And you may have had, you may have had the vehicle- I

Matt Scott: had it in the, in the, the… There’s two [00:31:00] regen settings, right? You had the

Scott Brady: standard

Matt Scott: regen? I had the standard on,

Scott Brady: yeah. All right. Yeah. So it does take some time to get used to that.

Matt Scott: Yeah.

Scott Brady: Um-

Matt Scott: It was, it was very much a-

Scott Brady: Yeah …

Matt Scott: like a ee, ee, ee.

Scott Brady: So that’s one, that’s one- That’s EVs, though.

That’s

Matt Scott: not Rivian.

Scott Brady: Well, the, that’s one plus for the Hummer, though.

Matt Scott: Oh.

Scott Brady: You can turn that off for the Hummer. It drives like a regular Tahoe. Like, it, it, you get in it-

Matt Scott: What a compliment.

Scott Brady: You get in it, and it’s got a regular shifter. The one-pedal drive you can turn on and off. That’s nice. So the, in the, in the regular drive mode, the, the regen is very soft.

Matt Scott: Yeah.

Scott Brady: So you can adj- you can adjust that. I mean, w- now that we’ve driven the Lightning, we’ve driven the Rivian R1T, we’ve riv- driven the Hummer EV- The

Matt Scott: Lightning looks really good.

Scott Brady: W- And the, what I like about the Lightning is it’s every, it’s every person’s pickup.

Matt Scott: Mm-hmm.

Scott Brady: Like, it is indistinguishable-

Matt Scott: It’s a pickup truck, but it’s electric, which I think is great.

Yeah. Like, I don’t, I don’t need to wave the, the flag.

Scott Brady: It’s almost indistinguishable from a standard F-150. Yeah. [00:32:00] Like, you gotta really know F-150s- Mm-hmm … to know that the front is different. It just looks like a new F-150. It drives like an F-150. It, it, the interior is, like, standard Ford fare. Like, if someone hopped in it, they just wouldn’t know, but it still goes 0 to 60 in four seconds.

Matt Scott: Almost- But isn’t, isn’t that kind of the future- Yeah … of EVs- Of course … is, you know, we’ve, we’ve figured out cars pretty well, and I think that we’re looking at EVs as this fu- trying to sell this futuristic concept.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Matt Scott: And in reality, it’s just a different engine.

Scott Brady: Yeah. And if we look historically, um, in the beginning of the automotive age, it was EV versus internal combustion.

Yeah. Even back then.

Matt Scott: Mm-hmm.

Scott Brady: So-

Matt Scott: The first Mercedes-Benz was an electric vehicle.

Scott Brady: That’s right. This content is brought to you by Overland Journal, our premium quality print publication. The magazine was founded in 2006 with the goal of providing independent equipment and vehicle reviews, along with the most stunning [00:33:00] adventures and photography.

We care deeply about the countries and cultures we visit, and share our experiences freely with our readers. We also have zero advertorial policy and do not accept any advertiser compensation for our reviews. By subscribing to Overland Journal, you’re helping to support our employee-owned and veteran-owned publication.

Your support also provides resources and funding for content like you are watching or listening to right now. You can subscribe directly on our website at overlandjournal.com. Um, I- these are the things that I’ve just kind of fallen in love with on the EVs. It’s the silent operation. Oh, yeah. So, um, I do not need to act like a 10-year-old when I’m out in the dirt- Mm

off-road. Mm. I don’t need it to- Interesting. Interesting … I don’t need it to scream. I don’t need it to scream and howl and growl. I don’t… Like, I like the fact that these cars are essentially [00:34:00] silent. You do kinda hear the, the tires- There’s a

Matt Scott: mechanical noise and-

Scott Brady: A little bit of tires crunching on the dirt and things like that, but you’ll find that you see way more wildlife because it’s super quiet.

Your fatigue goes down. Um, you just end up feeling more a part of- Mm-hmm. Yeah … y- the, the nat- the nature experience, which I, I really like. So I love the, the silent operation. Uh, they’re also incredibly cheap to fill up. So when we have, um, the capability of filling these EVs here at the office, and to go from 20% to 100% costs $17.82 on the Rivian.

Matt Scott: Yeah, that’s not bad.

Scott Brady: If that had a twin turbo V6 or whatever a car like that would have in it in the modern age, and a 20-something gallon fuel tank, at, at the prices that we’re at today for fuel, you’re 130, $140 to fill it up.

Matt Scott: I remember-

Scott Brady: $17.80 …

Matt Scott: I, I, like, added… I got, I got the new [00:35:00] iPhone-

Scott Brady: Yeah …

Matt Scott: which is, eh, I mean, it’s kinda eh, eh.

I don’t know. I don’t know about that. That’s a different story. Um, but I re-added all my credit cards to it, and I’m, a- and, and I realize now that when you go to the gas station, like, they used to pre-authorize for, like, 50- Yep … or 75 or maybe 100 when gas prices go. 250 is what- Yep … they’re authorizing now.

Scott Brady: Yep. ‘

Matt Scott: Cause it, it pops up on, like, the, you, you know- Yep … uh, through Apple Pay- On AmEx or whatever … or whatever. Yeah. And it’s like, yeah. Like, we’ve got so many factors that are p- gonna push us towards EVs, right? They’re s- they’re gonna be simpler to manufacture once… I mean, the supply chain’s there. It just needs to get beefed up.

Scott Brady: Yep.

Matt Scott: There’s just fewer components. They’re cheaper to make, you know?

Scott Brady: Half of the, currently half of the service and maintenance costs.

Matt Scott: Yeah. Gonna be cheaper to maintain. They’re gonna be cheaper to fill up. So you’re gonna start seeing, like, h- [00:36:00] he who makes the first affordable electric car will win.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Matt Scott: You know, I always use LA as this example People don’t leave LA with their cars.

Scott Brady: Not really.

Matt Scott: Like, it takes hours to do so.

Scott Brady: Right.

Matt Scott: There are only usually… And, and they may spend hours in their car, but they may be tra- traveling 40 miles round trip None of that makes sense for a gas vehicle. You know, I know that they have some grid problems and whatever, but, you know, you can power-

Scott Brady: They have real grid problems

Yeah. Oh,

Matt Scott: yeah But, you know, the next thing, you know, people will spend 30 grand to remodel a bathroom these days like it’s nothing. Um, you know, that’s what it costs to do a Tesla- We’re, we’re doing a Tesla home battery and a nine kilowatt hour array. We already have some solar on our house, so we’re gonna increase it, but we don’t need to do as much.

And I think it’s $27,000. That’s a big [00:37:00] chunk of money. But for as long as I own that house, I think the panels have a 20-year warranty, I won’t have an electric bill.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Matt Scott: That includes charging two EVs in, like, practical, normal use. You’re not draining them- No … to zero every day.

Scott Brady: I, I, I think that the low cost to fill was really impressive to me.

It’s just- And I also found that there were- there’s so many hotels that you can charge at for free. Yeah. Particularly in Arizona, there’s a lot of APS-sponsored charging stations. There’s lots of, like, little, um, like, the little, the small little towns that you go through, a lot of times, like, the visitor centers will have- Yeah

chargers on them, and they’re free. Hmm. They’re free to charge. Um, so I found that to be the case. Uh, the charging infrastructure is still a huge problem, though. Yeah. That’s, let’s just get that out there very clearly. If

Matt Scott: you’re- Like, in Prescott, it’s terrible.

Scott Brady: Yeah. If you’re trying to tow something with one of these EVs, it’s a real problem.

So, like, for me, I can’t even get to the sailboat and back here [00:38:00] because there’s no place to charge quickly along the way. So I have to go from here, from Prescott to Lake Roosevelt, and then from Lake Roosevelt, I have to go down to Phoenix to hit a fast charger to get … to even make it worthwhile to-

Matt Scott: The fast chargers are game-changers.

Scott Brady: Oh, yeah. Yeah, they’re so fast.

Matt Scott: You know, I think that’s one of the things that-

Scott Brady: So fast …

Matt Scott: you know, there’s the range of the vehicle, and then there’s, then there’s how quickly they go from, like, 20 to 80%. Yeah. Like, uh, the-

Scott Brady: To 70. As things start to slow down around 70%. Okay. Yeah. Depending on the car. Uh, but if I, if I go from 10% to 70%, took 33 minutes.

33 minutes is all it took-

Matt Scott: Hmm …

Scott Brady: at the fast charger in Phoenix. So it’s, you know, uh … And for me, like, uh, again, this is my use case. Not every- Some people will find that really frustrating to have to wait 33 minutes. It is not frustrating to me at all because I’m sitting there, I can do work. I just break out my iPad, I answer a bunch of emails.

It’s no problem at all.

Matt Scott: [00:39:00] And your AC’s running while you’re

Scott Brady: in there. Yeah, it’s super comfortable, or I can walk, walk in and have a lunch- Hmm … or whatever like that. It’s no big deal. Uh, the other thing that’s really important to note is the performance of these things. Like-

Matt Scott: Mental

Scott Brady: It, they, the, the Rivian zero to 60 in three and a half-ish seconds.

The Hummer EV zero to 60 in 3.3 seconds. Sometimes you can get a little bit faster in the Watts to Freedom mode, the WTF mode, which I kinda love. It’s, it’s mental fast. Like, it’s qui- Yeah … it’s so fun to, to, like, it’s 9,000 something pounds and it’s, like, literally peeling your face off of your skull. It’s so fast.

Now, you know fast cars, Matt, and, and I don’t. Yeah. So, like, for me, it feels like it’s in, it, like, my brain is melting, it’s so fast. You’ve no doubt experienced much faster than that, but it’s so fast. It’s so fast.

Matt Scott: It’s, I, I think it’s, to a degree, a little bit of a party trick fast. Like, it’s a different kind of fast.

Yeah. It’s just like- ‘

Scott Brady: Cause there’s no transmission, there’s no shifting. It’s just, like, [00:40:00] violent

Matt Scott: As a opinion of, of mine, I, I haven’t really found an EV that I enjoy to drive.

Scott Brady: Hmm. Even the Rivian, huh?

Matt Scott: Yeah. You know, I didn’t, I didn’t- It

Scott Brady: was that one pedal drive thing, huh?

Matt Scott: It was the one pedal drive. I have to say, like, I thought the steering…

Now listen, I mean, it, it, this, this is a pickup truck.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Matt Scott: Right? This is not a car that’s designed to have… It’s not, you know, it’s not a Porsche. Now, the, the one EV that I actually did like was the Taycan. I test drove- Mm … one of those. Um, it drove like a Porsche. It drove great. It was electric. I think they focus more on the driving experience.

I just think that with a lot of these ones, yeah, they’re fast, and it’s like, “Hey, look over here, it’s really, really fast. Don’t focus on kind of the otherwise average driving experience.” Like-

Scott Brady: Right …

Matt Scott: but how much of that is me adapting to EVs? Things are different.

Scott Brady: They are.

Matt Scott: You know? You don’t get-

Scott Brady: You get used to them

y- [00:41:00]

Matt Scott: how, how a car drives is just drast- how, how these things drive is drastically different.

Scott Brady: Yeah. I just found myself absolutely loving

Matt Scott: it. I mean, you just wanna, like, stab the gas all the time, and it’s like, “Hee, hee.”

Scott Brady: Yeah. “Hee, hee.” I just found myself absolutely loving it. Like, um, I mean, you just, yeah, you roll up at a stop sign, and here’s a guy in a WRX STI, and you’re just thinking, “I really wanna race this guy ’cause he has no idea what’s about to happen.”

No idea. No idea. He has no idea.

Matt Scott: Like, I

Scott Brady: mean- And every once in a while, they bite, and it’s just like they, they don’t even stand a chance.

Matt Scott: Well, like if we talk about fast cars, right? So yeah, I’ve had some fast cars. It’s not necessarily the internal combustion engine that has really revolutionized, you know, current vehicles to make them super fast.

Um, that horsepower helps with lap times.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Matt Scott: So I mean, but handling is paramount there- Yeah, true … and traction and aero and that kind of stuff, [00:42:00] but it’s transmission technology that has- Yeah … it’s the launch control. So when you see something that does 0 to 60 in two whatever seconds, that’s like fumbling through modes, putting it in launch control, you know, foot on the brake as hard as you can, revving it up, and then it just takes off like a rocket.

You can’t just… If you just lay on the gas on a lot of these cars, they’re gonna be nowhere near their quoted times.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Matt Scott: Now, with EVs, it’s just like, “I wanna go.”

Scott Brady: It’s mental.

Matt Scott: Just go. You just literally, you put the gas down- Yeah … and it goes.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Matt Scott: You know? I mean, they are- I-

Scott Brady: They kinda make you giddy. Like, I, like, I had my whole family in the Rivian and I’m like, “You guys gotta see this.”

I, I just- And they were all… They couldn’t stop laughing.

Matt Scott: It was so fun. I think a Rivian, like, i- if you put a Rivian on, like, the, you know, the streets of Hollywood or wherever there’s a lot of supercars, I, I, I think just, like, casual, like, oh, boom, we’re gonna, we’re gonna hit it, we’re [00:43:00] gonna go. I think the Rivian’s gonna smoke a lot of stuff.

Just, they’re so fast, and they’re just so fa- so easy. Like, the, the, the speed is so easy.

Scott Brady: Sure.

Matt Scott: But it almost feels like a gimmick. Um, we don’t need pickup trucks that do 0 to 60 in three seconds. And maybe that- We need pickup trucks that-

Scott Brady: Can tow …

Matt Scott: that can tow- Yeah … that can work, uh, that have, you know, increased range.

Yeah. You know, I’m just, I’m just curious-

Scott Brady: No, that’s true, and I think that

Matt Scott: that’s- … how the engineering works on that. Like, there’s- That’s- … probably a sweet spot of batteries and engine size and- There

Scott Brady: probably is … whatever for efficiency. And I, I think that’s part of what I liked about the F-150 is it was, it was very good range.

Um, it was lower power. Like, it still was, like, four seconds. It’s still so fast. But- Still gonna

Matt Scott: smoke a

Scott Brady: Raptor. Yeah, it’s still so f- it’s still so fast. But, um, it’s the performance overall. And then for the, the Rivian, on the dirt, uh, it, it is, it is a, a [00:44:00] wonderful vehicle to drive on the trail. Uh, so is the Hummer.

Uh, the Hummer’s bigger. So the Hummer- Yeah … is wider. Um, it’s actually more agile because of the rear steering.

Matt Scott: Mm.

Scott Brady: So I actually found the Hummer in some instances was easier to drive.

Matt Scott: Rear steering can be such a game changer.

Scott Brady: It is. It’s very cool. Um, the crab walk is super fun. It’s totally a parlor trick, but there are times when you can use it.

Um, and, but the rear steering is really critical because of the size of the Hummer. Um, but for me, like, if you’re in the open desert, the Hummer’s perfect.

Matt Scott: Mm.

Scott Brady: But, like, I took the Rivian up to the South Rim of the Grand Canyon, and the trail that Bruce and I needed to take, I mean, there were inches of clearance at times with the

Matt Scott: Rivian.

The Rivian’s just the perfect size. I,

Scott Brady: I would agree.

Matt Scott: It’s first gen Tundra size.

Scott Brady: Yes. I would agree. And if, and

Matt Scott: if

Scott Brady: you know- It’s literally

Matt Scott: the perfect size … pickup trucks, you go and you’re like, “That is the pickup truck that you want.”

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Matt Scott: It’s just old now.

Scott Brady: Yeah. It’s just literally, it’s literally the perfect size.

I don’t remember the, the width on it, [00:45:00] uh, specifically, but it was… It’s, if you look at the dimensions of a Rivian, it’s kind of like first gen Tundra, which arguably is, like, the perfect truck size.

Matt Scott: It’s a little bigger than a Tacoma. Yeah. It’s a little bit smaller than an… ‘Cause-

Scott Brady: Yep …

Matt Scott: all of the, you know, the, the full size trucks now share, basically they share a cab.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Matt Scott: So you’re really just getting into bed length- Yep … is, is kind of the differentiating factor.

Scott Brady: For sure. Yeah, so the performance on the dirt is actually really nice because the Rivian has four different motors. It has- uh, each wheel is controlled by a motor, and it has a lot of ground clearance. It has airbag suspension.

It’s actually fairly long travel. We, we achieved nearly a 500 RTI ramp score- Yeah,

Matt Scott: that’s

Scott Brady: good … which is, if you look at the list of stock vehicles, it’s in the top 25%.

Matt Scott: Yeah.

Scott Brady: Um, so it’s really- it’s not Ru- And

Matt Scott: imagine what they- It’s not Rubicon … can do to that platform. Yeah. Like, when you sit underneath it, you kinda realize, like, oh, if they wanna put 37s on this.

Scott Brady: [00:46:00] Yep.

Matt Scott: Like, how it’s designed, it’s a matter of where some components are welded and, uh, it’s, it’s really cool. Like, what if there’s a Raptor version of the Rivian, you know, like the, the go fast.

Scott Brady: They’ll come up with it, I’m sure.

Matt Scott: I mean, they just, I mean, they can’t make enough right now- Yeah, that’s right

’cause they’re selling too many.

Scott Brady: That’s right. Um- Yeah, they are, they are, they are making a ton of them.

Matt Scott: Yeah.

Scott Brady: Well, and speaking of tire size, so, um, the one thing that I don’t like about the Rivian is the 20-inch wheels. Um, they are too big of a diameter. Even though the, the tires are actually almost 34 inches in diameter- Yeah

which is a big tire. Mm-hmm. Um, it, the tire diameter to wheel diameter, uh, ratio is not, is not enough. So typically, what we want for off-road performance is we want the tire diameter to be twice the wheel diameter. So if you have a, a 17-inch wheel, you want a 34-inch, 35-inch tall tire. Yeah. Um, that’s when you start to get into optimal off-road performance characteristics, flotation, deformation, um, all of those [00:47:00] things that we, we really look for off road.

So when you end up with a 20-inch wheel, um, you should have a th- a 40-inch tall tire on there, um, and it’s nowhere near that diameter. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you can only air down so much, um, which is really important in these EVs ’cause they’re very heavy. So the Hummer got that right. They have an 18-inch wheel and a 35-inch tall tire.

Yeah. So they’re very close to that sweet spot, um, so you end up with a lot more deformation. Um, when we did El Camino Del Diablo, we actually chose not to air down the whole time to gain some additional, uh, range and efficiency, but we could have aired down and we, and in hindsight, I would have preferred to have- Mm

aired down. The ride quality would have improved a little bit. Um, but I would like to see these larger diameter tires because the Achilles heel of EVs off-road, and this is where everybody listening needs to hear this ’cause it is a, a real problem, is ledges and large rocks. So people talk about the [00:48:00] torque of an EV motor, right?

Which they’re … And n- like the, the the Hummer says it has 11,000 foot-pounds of torque, which is- it’s a calculation of the torque of the motor and the- gearing and everything else like that. But- Yeah, I

Matt Scott: wonder if you did the same thing on like a-

Scott Brady: It, it’s still huge. Like a- … a

Matt Scott: diesel truck- You’re right. It’s huge

and you calculate it through the transmission

Scott Brady: and all the reductions Yeah. It doesn’t make the, the Hummer torque number look all that impressive, um, when you compare the two. But, um, it has-

Matt Scott: A gimmick from Hummer. Hmm …

Scott Brady: it has a lot of torque.

Matt Scott: Yeah.

Scott Brady: But it doesn’t- And they say, oh, it develops it from zero. It does not develop it from zero.

Matt Scott: Develops it from one.

Scott Brady: That’s correct. So getting from zero to one, now think about how we normally climb a ledge in Moab or a large rock with an internal combustion vehicle. If we have a clutch, we’re modulating the clutch a little bit. We’re forcing that front tire to start to deform and press into the rock so it can climb up it.

Um, [00:49:00] and if we have an automatic transmission, we’re left foot braking, we’re forcing that tire face into the rock or into the ledge so that it can start to climb straight up it. Yeah. And the rear tires are pushing the tire face into it, and it’s all allowing it to climb up very slowly and controlled over the ledge.

An EV cannot do that.

Matt Scott: Hmm.

Scott Brady: It, it doesn’t work. Anybody who tells you otherwise hasn’t driven one. It doesn’t work. So if you push the tire up against it, if it’s a, if it’s a ledge or a large rock, it will go to WOT, wide open throttle, and it will not work. The car, like the rear tire might start to spin a little bit or it

Matt Scott: may- It’s just gonna break traction

Scott Brady: in the rear, but it will not climb that ledge or that rock. It won’t do it So the only way you can get up and over the rock is you gotta kinda bounce it.

Matt Scott: Mm.

Scott Brady: So now- And you’re

Matt Scott: breaking stuff …

Scott Brady: so now you are bouncing a 9,000, 10,000, 8,500 pound-

Matt Scott: Yeah …

Scott Brady: EV [00:50:00] up against a rock face, and something’s gonna break. S- the, the CVs are gonna break, the, um, the, the tie rod ends are gonna break.

The Hummer and the Rivian have both experienced tie rod end issues. Um, so it, it i- and rack issues because you cannot slowly- Mm … climb the ledge or the rock like we would with something with an automatic or something with a clutch. Um, it doesn’t work, so you gotta bounce it, and when you bounce it, stuff can break.

Matt Scott: I wonder how, like, the addition of like a, like a low range or something would, would affect that.

Scott Brady: What my thought was, um, and I’m gonna put this out there free to the world, I think I’ve got the solution, um, is that they need to incorporate a torque converter, and the torque converter only has to be open, unlocked, for those situations where you say, like you press rock crawl mode-

Matt Scott: Yeah

Scott Brady: it opens up the torque converter, and it allows the electric motor- Mm … to spin up so that it can generate power and then help [00:51:00] you get up

Matt Scott: and over the obstacles. You don’t want to have a certain amount of clutch slipping in a differential- Yep … or

Scott Brady: center differential or something. Yeah. Ex- exactly. Just allow for a little bit of slipping.

Um, and it could be in a torque converter, or it could be in a clutch pack that, that had a lot of good, um, you know, durability to it. Um, and then it can get locked back up again as soon as you start moving. Mm. Um, but it, in these rock crawl modes or in, when you’re in rock crawling situations, uh, the EVs do not work as well as internal combustion, and it’s actually a bit of a liability.

Um, so it’s the same with the Hummer. The Hummer is slightly better at it than- Mm … the Rivian because the Hummer has a front differential lock.

Matt Scott: Interesting.

Scott Brady: And then it has a rear ver- virtual locker which says to the vehicle, “Turn the two rear motors at the same speed.” At the same RPM, yeah. Whereas the, the Rivian is trying to be clever, and it’s trying to figure out, like, “How much can I send here?”

The Rivian needs, in rock crawl mode, at low-

Matt Scott: Mm …

Scott Brady: speeds, it needs to give power to all of the motors to help it kinda climb up and over. [00:52:00] And the other thing, the other advantage the Hummer has is it has one huge motor in the front.

Matt Scott: Yeah.

Scott Brady: So it makes more power when it’s just getting going. And then they’ve also tuned it where, you know, the Hummer engineers know that this is a problem, so they try to give it maximum current to help it get up and over the obstacles.

Okay. So the Hummer does work better in rock crawl. Well, we’re gen

Matt Scott: one on a lot of these things.

Scott Brady: Yep. Yeah, so that’s something that people need to be aware of, is that, uh, ledges and rocks. Um, and then I think the other thing too is EV, and this might be why a lot of people are frustrated with EVs, they’re just not approachable.

Like they’re, you gotta spend 100 and something thousand dollars to get one.

Matt Scott: Yeah.

Scott Brady: And then think about, like, the f- the small family that wants to get an EV, and they wanna buy one used, so they buy an, a seven or an eight-year-old EV. What’s the big surprise they’re gonna have very, very soon?

Matt Scott: Batteries?

Scott Brady: Battery pack.

Matt Scott: Hmm.

Scott Brady: And a battery pack-

Matt Scott: A lot of these battery packs from my [00:53:00] research, I mean, they’re talking 500,000 miles, 600,000 miles.

Scott Brady: I, I would hope so, but the warranties are only, like, eight years- Yeah … some of them are 10 years.

Matt Scott: Yeah, I mean, you know, um, um, a modern internal combustion engine has no problems going 500,000 miles.

Yeah. They regularly do. But, you know, at what point do you exceed the, the longevity of so many other components? Yeah. I think there’s a lot of hyper-focus on the battery. Um- Yeah, I, I don’t know

Scott Brady: Maybe it’s not an issue. Um, it just, when I looked at it, it, it made me think, like what about… Like right now if you were to buy a 10-year-old Tacoma-

Matt Scott: Yeah

Scott Brady: you’ve got a vehicle that’s gonna give you probably, if you wanted, another 20 years of service.

Matt Scott: Oh yeah, for sure. And, and there are erector sets, right?

Scott Brady: Mm-hmm.

Matt Scott: Um.

Scott Brady: So I think e- the EV, like you said, the first person that comes out with a low-cost, a accessible EV-

Matt Scott: Yeah, and it’ll be, it’ll be Hyundai. Well, I mean, it already is kinda Hyundai, Kia, that kinda thing.

I [00:54:00] think as we- I think they’ll do

Scott Brady: well with

Matt Scott: that … as we see the, as we see the supply chain mature.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Matt Scott: Um, you know what I mean? EVs have also become, kinda had this, this big moment during the pandemic-

Scott Brady: Yeah …

Matt Scott: when supply chains are just messed up in general for everybody.

Scott Brady: Sure.

Matt Scott: Um, you know, so they can’t, they can’t produce enough cars.

I mean, what was it? Ford, they can’t sell F-150s for, they couldn’t for a little bit because they couldn’t get the badges-

Scott Brady: Yeah …

Matt Scott: to put on the front.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Matt Scott: Um, you know, just kinda shows where we’re- And

Scott Brady: they’re, I think they sold out 2023 model year on the Lightning. I mean- Yeah,

Matt Scott: yeah … just like, they’re just sold out And,

Scott Brady: and,

Matt Scott: and Hummer’s not taking orders.

Scott Brady: Yeah, they’re just sold out.

Matt Scott: There’s a lot of people out there that want them. You know- Yeah … for us, we want electric cars because we are devoted greyhound parents. And we live in Arizona, which means for half of the year it’s, it’s pretty warm.

Scott Brady: Yep.

Matt Scott: Um, not as warm as it is in Phoenix for us here in Prescott, but, um-

Scott Brady: It is warm

Matt Scott: it’s warm. You can’t leave a pet inside a vehicle. I [00:55:00] mean, even at 60 degrees it’s, it’s bad news. Bears, and we have a very sensitive little boy. Yeah,

Scott Brady: sure.

Matt Scott: Um, these pet modes- Yeah, super cool … that, that, that all these things have, um, is crazy. You know, you wanna go into the shops or you wanna like, you know, go to dinner or you wanna do whatever, boop, press a button, it’s climate controlled.

Um, you know, a friend of mine was sleeping in the R1S, uh, at Rebelle, Abigail Bassett, and she used 10 miles of range to run the air conditioning all night. She just slept in the back of the R1S.

Scott Brady: Yep.

Matt Scott: That’s nothing.

Scott Brady: It’s nothing.

Matt Scott: Like, you know, I had AC in the EarthRoamer, but I’m literally having to idle the engine to, you know, ’cause it, when it’s 105 degrees all day, everything’s hot.

It’s only 80 degrees at night or something. Um, where she’s just next to me and- Really comfy. I’m, I’m jealous.

Scott Brady: The other thing that’s super cool that the Rivian [00:56:00] has is camp mode.

Matt Scott: Oh, yeah, yeah.

Scott Brady: So- That’s

Matt Scott: what she was in.

Scott Brady: Yeah. Yeah. So when, when you, uh, are sleeping in the R1S or when you have a, like a small roof tent on the back of an R1T, like I had it configured, you just push a button and it…

Because it’s air s- four corner air suspension- Yeah … it levels the car.

Matt Scott: Yeah.

Scott Brady: So, like, you get into this uneven campsite, and you just push the button and it… I mean, it has a huge amount of travel. Yeah. So I’m sure that it would level even a very awkward angle. Uh, pretty impressive.

Matt Scott: I, I think that it’s just the, the future of EVs and the things that you’re able to then do with them.

You know, a lot of EVs to support the weight, they have air suspension. Yep. So they’re able, they’re able to do certain things. I think the, the Rivian’s actually hydraulic. Um, right?

Scott Brady: It’s air.

Matt Scott: Is it air?

Scott Brady: Yeah, it’s air. And maybe it’s air over hydraulic, but you hear the pump running.

Matt Scott: Okay. The

Scott Brady: air pump running.

Matt Scott: Yeah. I, it- And then it

Scott Brady: has a built-in air compressor too.

Matt Scott: Yeah. Like, you know, from a guy that works in the automotive aftermarket, um, I’m, I’m really [00:57:00] interested. You know, you’re starting to see, well, on internal combustion side and on EV side, these kinda more specifically optioned modified vehicles coming- Yeah

straight from the factory. Um, yeah, like I know with the Rivian you can, you know, you can air up your tires. It’ll, it’ll stop at, at whatever PSI you want. I think the, the Defender does that too.

Scott Brady: Yep.

Matt Scott: Um-

Scott Brady: It’s super clever. It works great.

Matt Scott: You know. But, uh, you know.

Scott Brady: And the kit’s really nice too. Like, everything on the Rivian, like all these touch points are

Like, they thought about it. So it’s not the, like, super cheap hose. It’s like a heavy-duty hose with really good

Matt Scott: connectors-

Scott Brady: Yeah. Yeah …

Matt Scott: and so it’s actually pretty- I think Rivian, they, they, they know their market.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Matt Scott: Um, you know, if I was to put my genie hat on, I would have to think that, you know, that Rivian, they’re, they’re, they’re highly intelligent people, and they’re gonna look at the market and they’re gonna say, “Well, Ford’s gonna do an F-150.”

Mm-hmm. And Ford’s probably gonna stick to their plan of make a pickup truck [00:58:00] that’s electric, and you’re gonna have e- X amount of levels, and they’re gonna be going after fleet sales and whatever. Where I think Rivian went after, I, I don’t know, creatives, people that are maybe a little bit more aesthetically

Just a more premium customer, and I think that they nailed it head on.

Scott Brady: Yeah, or somebody who wants to go fly-fishing, or somebody who wants to- It’s a, it’s a- … do mountain

Matt Scott: biker. It’s

Scott Brady: perfect …

Matt Scott: I wouldn’t say that it’s like a, an overly luxurious interior on it.

Scott Brady: It’s perfect for me.

Matt Scott: But it’s perfect.

Scott Brady: Yeah. For-

Matt Scott: I, I do wish that there was a few more buttons.

Scott Brady: I, I lo- I love it.

Matt Scott: Yeah, I know. That’s maybe- I’m

Scott Brady: so sold.

Matt Scott: That’s, that’s my gripe.

Scott Brady: You know? It’s like, it’s just the most simple, elegant,

Matt Scott: humblest- Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t, I don’t remember like a volume knob.

Scott Brady: There’s not. No volume knob. Uh, that car- Well, well there is on the steering wheel, though.

Matt Scott: Yeah.

Scott Brady: You roll it on the steering wheel and it goes up and down. The passenger just does it on the touchscreen. Which did take me a little while to figure out. So there, the, the UI on the Rivian does take a little bit of getting used to.

Matt Scott: Yeah.

Scott Brady: Um, so-

Matt Scott: And no [00:59:00] CarPlay. Yeah. No Android Auto.

Scott Brady: Exactly. So we, we have to bash on the Rivian a little bit to be fair to the Hummer thing.

So no CarPlay, which means no Gaia, no Onyx is running. It’s

Matt Scott: just kinda like w- like, I don’t have a- They gotta- … problem with their system, but I’m just like-

Scott Brady: You gotta have CarPlay. You gotta

Matt Scott: have CarPlay. Well, ’cause it’s just like, you know, your phone is like an extension of you. Yeah. And if you can’t- I don’t know.

I mean, like it’s, it’s one of those things that you don’t necessarily need

Scott Brady: I, I think that-

Matt Scott: But- …

Scott Brady: I use it all the time, like

Matt Scott: But it would be a, it would be a, a ding against the Rivian for me, a pretty big one.

Scott Brady: Yeah. Um- I think the, the lack of CarPlay, uh, there are two buttons. There’s a hazards button- Yeah

and there’s the SOS button that does like a OnStar kind of-

Matt Scott: Yeah …

Scott Brady: call. Um, and also, like j- again, to be fair, we have to talk about the things on the Rivian. The one, the one thing on the Rivian that’s absolutely hilarious is the charge door. It’s the most unnecessarily complex. It’s like, it’s like- … when the, the Russians needed to write in space, they just used a pencil.

Oh, yeah. And we spent, we spent [01:00:00] billions of dollars or millions of dollars to develop a-

Matt Scott: On a, on a pen …

Scott Brady: on a zero gravity pen.

Matt Scott: Yeah.

Scott Brady: It’s the most unnecessarily complex charge door. It like- Yes. It like, it like- It’s a trapeze artist … it like, it like goes out and open, but here’s the problem is, the touch sensitive, you know, trigger for it is on the fender flare, which means if you have any trail damage, you aren’t gonna get your, your, your door open.

Matt Scott: Yeah.

Scott Brady: And then, and then when mud and other things hit it, it … Like, so I’m going down this muddy trail and this m- the mud splatters across the fender flare. Mm. And here it comes open the the charge door. Oh, no. And then, and then you go through a car wash, charge door, charge door’s open. It’s gonna

Matt Scott: get ripped off

Scott Brady: so many times.

Now, if you go into, if you go into car wash mode- Oh, I hate car- … it won’t, it won’t do that. That- It won’t do that. It, but and I also like, I’m like, “I’m gonna end up on YouTube because of this car trying to go through a car wash.” Have a

Matt Scott: button.

Scott Brady: Yeah. Well, it- Just, just

Matt Scott: put a button inside …

Scott Brady: it, it- Buttons … it does, it does have like the car wash mode, but it didn’t exactly work.

Like I [01:01:00] activated it, and then the thing went back into park and, you know, the rollers are trying to get me, and it’s like the car’s bouncing inside the car wash, and I’m like, “I’m gonna end up-“

Matt Scott: Dead.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Matt Scott: You’re, you’re gonna drown. I’m

Scott Brady: gonna drown in this You’re gonna drown in a car wash. I’m just, I’m just

I was just convinced that I was gonna end up on the nightly news- Ugh … of like this car sideways in the, you

Matt Scott: know- America’s Funniest Somebody’s.

Scott Brady: Exactly.

Matt Scott: You’re gonna end up on Infowars. “Electric car tries to kill man.”

Scott Brady: Yeah. Yeah, so like the, the charge door is so unnecessarily complex. Just put a hinge on it.

Like you push it in, and it pops open- Yeah … and it works. Um, don’t … And l- uh, the complexity- Like

Matt Scott: what about ice? Like if-

Scott Brady: Yeah. Like

Matt Scott: that’s what I think. Like I’m from, I’m from the suburbs of Chicago and, and we’d g- I remember these ice storms as a kid, where like you’d go outside You can have like a quarter inch of ice on your car Yeah Like, how is that gonna…

Scott Brady: No, it’s, it’s, uh, like even the, even the windows with the mud, they were like starting to stop and go and up and down. Yeah. And then the, the [01:02:00] center console, um, it, it, instead of just having like the most simple mechanical latch, it’s got like a button that you push- Oh, I remember that … that makes a suggestion to the car that maybe you open the center console or maybe you don’t.

I can’t figure out what you have to do to make it work-

Matt Scott: Yeah …

Scott Brady: other than when I’m driving along, it works every time. It’s, it’s

Matt Scott: gadgety. It’s gadgety. Yeah.

Scott Brady: And I think avoid those things. I, I

Matt Scott: think some people like that. Um-

Scott Brady: Yeah. But I think for the most part, you gotta avoid them for real use scenarios.

Matt Scott: Yeah.

Scott Brady: Um, the, uh- I mean,

Matt Scott: you can’t buy any of these cars.

Scott Brady: They’re hard- Like- They’re hard to… Well, I tried to buy one and I couldn’t get one, so.

Matt Scott: My buddy, my buddy Kevin put an order in, I wanna say November, and I think he’s looking at, like end of next year.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Matt Scott: At November of 2020.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Matt Scott: Sorry. So, like R1S, I’m like, I’m sold.

I’d love one. But you pretty much have to buy one used from somebody that’s flipping it- Yep … and, you know, you’re looking 20, [01:03:00] 25 over sticker.

Scott Brady: Yep.

Matt Scott: Which sounds bad, but I will tell you in the premium car space right now, and now this is waning, that is not unusual. Yeah. Like, if you want a, if you want a new G-Wagon, if you want a G63, I’ve seen 200 over sticker.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Matt Scott: Like, that was early in the pandemic. Right now, 50 to 100. You know, let’s not even talk Porsches, that’s crazy. This is normal. It’s a weird way of kind of getting around it. At least they’re not overcharging people.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Matt Scott: Um, and, and isn’t, uh, how, how did it work for the, for the, the Hummer thing? Like, they’re selling them through GM- D- GMC dealerships- GMC

and it was kind of separate from the dealer in a way, wasn’t it? ‘Cause they were kinda-

Scott Brady: Yep, so they did online ordering, uh, which this is, I mean, anybody that’s in the car dealership business should be very concerned about their future, because, [01:04:00] you know, EV-

Matt Scott: 50% more reliable- That’s- If there’s 50% as many problems- Yeah

like the dealer model-

Scott Brady: Yep …

Matt Scott: either runs on just huge volumes or it runs on service.

Scott Brady: That’s right.

Matt Scott: What happens when your car is more reliable and it doesn’t need service? It

Scott Brady: doesn’t need an oil change.

Matt Scott: Yeah.

Scott Brady: There’s no reason to come in.

Matt Scott: How are they gonna upsell little old ladies on blinker fluid? One of the, you know, one of the stereotypes of millennials, we don’t like to talk on the phone, we just want stuff kind of automated.

Yep. We don’t want to have to deal with it.

Scott Brady: And that’s the Rivian. And that’s the Rivian. You go onto the Rivian, you go onto the Rivian

Matt Scott: website- And that’s Tesla.

Scott Brady: That’s, that’s- You b- you book your car and when it’s done, you can either go to the service center and have a bespoke experience, delivery experience, or they can bring it to you on a flatbed and they unload it in your driveway.

Yeah. They help you set up the charger.

Matt Scott: I mean, it is, it is- Walk

Scott Brady: you through the car and you’re done …

Matt Scott: like the future.

Scott Brady: Totally.

Matt Scott: You know? Totally. Um, at least, at least of new car stuff and, and I’m, you know, [01:05:00] there’s, there’s other new cars- I applaud that … that are doing- I applaud that part of it … the same thing, like Lucid.

Scott Brady: Yep.

Matt Scott: Lucid cars are crazy. I’ve seen those at, during Car Week in, in Monterey and, like, they had them at the Velocity Invitational, uh, ran over the weekend. Um, you know, and they’re like, it’s the pace car for like, you know, F1 cars going around Laguna Seca and it’s, those things don’t move slow.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Matt Scott: That thing, that thing boogies.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Matt Scott: Um, but it’s the same thing. Order it online, shows up at your door.

Scott Brady: Yep.

Matt Scott: I just don’t think people wanna play the game anymore.

Scott Brady: I know.

Matt Scott: And-

Scott Brady: I know. It’s gonna be interesting to see how that all works. And I If you look at, at Lightnings, they’re sold out. They’re all ordered, pre-order,

Matt Scott: and- And didn’t Ford do a similar thing where you, you know, you ordered online- They did

and it’ll get delivered through the dealer- That’s right … but the price is already negotiated?

Scott Brady: That’s right.

Matt Scott: Um-

Scott Brady: That’s right.

Matt Scott: You know, I know a lot of these dealers had to do what they had to do to survive. Um, you know. Yeah,

Scott Brady: it’s just not gonna be that model anymore. It’s not gonna work.

Matt Scott: [01:06:00] I think electric cars are leading in a lot of ways.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Matt Scott: And I’m, I’m just so excited. I’m excited for the future of EVs.

Scott Brady: Yep.

Matt Scott: You know, there’s been a lot of rumors going around on the future of, like, the Ram HD platform.

Scott Brady: Yep.

Matt Scott: And there’s been grumblings about them being the first to come to market with solid state batteries. Right now, batteries are all individual cells- Mm-hmm

you know, riveted or, uh, spot welded or however they’re attaching them together. Solid state batteries i- is essentially one big thing, and there’s been these rumors of a, you know, it’s gonna be diesel generator, range extender.

Scott Brady: I know. It’d be amazing. So you

Matt Scott: get the, you get the diesel dude, you know, that can go wherever he wants, and he’s got a 10-gallon tank or 20-gallon tank running this thing.

You know, we’ve got, you know, Jeep has just announced their new smaller sub Wrangler- Yep … that will be an EV. I’m so excited for that ’cause it’s, like, the right size. It’s, like, looks like it’s Cherokee sized.

Scott Brady: Yep.

Matt Scott: Um, XJ sized.

Scott Brady: Be f- interesting to see how they solve the- You, [01:07:00] you have- … rock ledge problem. Yeah.

How Jeep solves that.

Matt Scott: Um, you know, I wonder if it is through some kind of transmission. Like, Porsche on the Taycan actually has a two-speed transmission on the rear axle. Um, at, at obviously higher speeds, all-wheel drive doesn’t necessarily have as much of a benefit. Sure. So that front motor will kinda, uh, you know

I, I don’t know how it works. Sure. I don’t know if the one’s driving the other, but, um-

Scott Brady: But that … Also look at that. So the, the … If you wanted to buy something that was electric-

Matt Scott: Yeah …

Scott Brady: that you didn’t have to worry about range, you can do that. Yep. You can go buy a Jeep Wrangler 4xe.

Matt Scott: Yep.

Scott Brady: A Rubicon. So the thing, the thing can go on EV only range when you’re running around town.

Matt Scott: Yeah, like 20 or 30 miles.

Scott Brady: It’s, and it’s more

Matt Scott: than- It’s the best-selling electrified vehicle in the United States right now-

Scott Brady: Because it’s awesome …

Matt Scott: 4xe.

Scott Brady: It’s awesome, and the … I had the Grand Cherokee 4xe. Yeah. I absolutely enjoyed it. Mm-hmm. So I was able to drive from home to work [01:08:00] and plug in here at the office.

I used no fuel. Yeah. But then if I wanted to go on a road trip, I had a 600-mile range.

Matt Scott: Yeah. Like, that stuff, it … Like, I’m super interested right now in that, that, the electrified vehicles. Yeah. And maybe where we are, um, for the, you know, a lot of the guys that listen to this podcast is electrified is here.

Um, I, I have to say, I’m, like, super tempted by a 4xe. Yeah. I just know that- What a

Scott Brady: cool vehicle …

Matt Scott: we’re probably … What are we? 2019. They refresh the Wrangler every five years. Yeah. I mean, going back to time immemorial, that’s been their- Yeah … their product cycle. So I’m kinda like, hmm, I’m curious to see what comes next.

But we are undoubtedly looking at, in the next two to three years, a totally electric Wrangler.

Scott Brady: Yep.

Matt Scott: Um-

Scott Brady: Which I can’t wait to see how they-

Matt Scott: Can you imagine- … do that … just having the top down on a Wrangler with half doors in Yellowstone, driving through, you [01:09:00] know, seeing the animals and there’s no noise. I mean-

Scott Brady: It’s perfect

Matt Scott: like Moab with- Yeah … no, like, hot… ‘Cause, you know, like, you, you have the top off and you, you feel the, the heat of the engine on yourself. Yeah. Like, I know I’m being pedantic right now, but, uh, to have that EV and it, just the, the, the, the different level of engagement that you would have-

Scott Brady: I lo- I love the silence of it

I’m

Matt Scott: like, I- I’m, I’m super into it, so.

Scott Brady: So there we go, guys. We have just given you the Matt and Scott brain dump on- Hmm … EVs. The Ford F-150 Lightning, not really something you wanna take off-road. The Hummer is the most off-road capable in technical terrain. Yeah. And the Rivian, in my mind, is the best all-arounder, uh- Yeah

by a wide margin. And so much so that I even tried to buy the test vehicle. It was so close. I- It was so

Matt Scott: close … if I could go get a Rivian right now, like an R1S- Yeah … would work perfect for me, I’d have one on my

Scott Brady: driveway. Done deal. Yeah, there you go.

Matt Scott: Yeah.

Scott Brady: All right, we thank you all for [01:10:00] listening, and we’ll talk to you next time