Clay Croft on Building Expedition Overland, Family, Leadership, and the Greenland Film

Scott Brady

Scott Brady is an adventurer, author, and publisher, and the first person in history to cross all seven continents. Brady is executive publisher of the Overland Collective, home to Overland Journal, the Overland Journal Podcast, and expeditionportal.com—the world’s largest vehicle-dependent adventure community. Scott wrote Overlanding 101 (Simon & Schuster) and is currently riding around the world on his BMW GS. He also led Expeditions 7, the first expedition to drive the same vehicle on all seven continents. Brady’s polar crossings include Antarctica and a south–north crossing of the Greenland ice sheet. Scott is a fellow of the Explorers Club and lives in Prescott, Arizona.

Matt Scott

Matt is a leading expert in automotive adventure. He has extensively explored the world’s most remote places by 4WD and is considered an industry authority on overland travel. He is the only American to ever become an editor of a major Australian 4WD publication and has over 15 years of competitive auto racing experience. @mattexplore

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Transcript

Scott Brady: [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to the Overland Journal Podcast. I am your host, Scott Brady, and I’m here with my co-host, Matt Scott. How’s it going, Matt? How’s it going,

Matt Scott (2): Matt? Yeah, it’s going.

Scott Brady: Yeah. How’s Overland Expo treating you so far?

Matt Scott (2): I’m slightly sunburned because I’m slightly ginger.

Scott Brady: Yeah, I feel like I’m- I have two gin- I have two gingers in the van, man He’s more

Matt Scott (2): ginger than I am.

Scott Brady: And I’d like to h- b- on that note, we’re gonna introduce, uh, uh, our guest for today, Clay Crawfrom Expedition Overland. Thanks for being with us, Clay.

Clay Croft: You’re welcome. Thanks for having me.

Scott Brady: Oh, this is gonna be awesome, man. We’re- we, uh, we’ve been enjoying a couple days at Overland Expo, which is always a time to pull together people in the community- Mm

uh, pull together the folks that have really made a difference for this, for this industry. Uh, and you are one of those people, Clay. Mm. Um, you have had a, a very successful career, um, in and out of overlanding. Uh, but in the overland space, Expedition Overland is the authority on the video side. Uh, you guys have inspired tens of thousands, if not millions of people, [00:01:00] uh, through your, through your videos that you have on YouTube and on Amazon.

Um, what inspired you to do this? What made you decide that I’m gonna go from filming TV production and doing long, uh, long, uh, form films to producing xOverland? What was that inspiration for you?

Clay Croft: Yeah. For me- Well, cinematography for one is a feast or famine type of job, especially when you’re getting started.

You work really hard hours for, uh, the ability to get a job and hopefully feed your family for a little while. And I had just come out of a good run, and then the economy hit pretty hard in Montana. And then after it hit there, all my jobs fell through, and I just got… I reached this point where I was like, I, I can either continue to look for other work and work for other people, or I can…

Maybe this is the point where I should step out and go for it. And what else do I have to lose? ‘Cause I didn’t really see any really great future in front of [00:02:00] me at the time. Like, it was gonna be a slog to go get more work, and it just seemed like, “It’s a slog either way, let’s figure out how to-

Matt Scott (2): Might as well work for yourself

Clay Croft: might as well work for myself. Slog for yourself. Yeah.

Scott Brady: Well, and that’s interesting ’cause all three of us in that van, in this van, have, have taken that journey of working for others-

Clay Croft: Mm-hmm …

Scott Brady: uh, and then finding that moment in time to work for ourselves. Um, m- Matt’s now importing MAXTRAX and doing very well with that, and other products.

Mm-hmm. Um, XOVERLAND has been very successful a- and I feel fortunate to produce the magazine and website that I do. Uh, but that’s such an interesting thing, and it’s, it’s something that we see often in the overland space. We see… And it doesn’t… It, it makes sense, right? Yeah. Because, uh, it’s requires a certain degree of entrepreneurialship- Mm-hmm

even just to decide to go travel to Ushuaia. You have to be willing- Mm … to take some risk. Mm-hmm. You have to be, uh, interested in new frontiers or new ideas. Um, and it… that is certainly the case for someone who wants to start their own business.

Clay Croft: Yeah.

Scott Brady: Um, and you know, I’ve known you for a [00:03:00] long time, Clay, and you’ve had this ability to maintain, um, some degree of focus and mindset towards your family as well.

You have- Mm … three boys. Um, you have a gra- Three kids … and a t- uh, you have your great kids, an, an amazing wife that also does her own adventures. Mm-hmm. Um, tell me about how you’re mindful of your family. What, what… How does that dynamic enter it? Because Matt and I, neither of us have kids, um, so it’d be great to hear how you meld-

Clay Croft: Mm

Scott Brady: young ones, a family, with travel and, and the production that you do.

Clay Croft: Well, I will start off by saying it is not easy. This is really hard. Uh, and we have not done it perfectly maybe ever, but we really work hard and have a, a mindset towards making it the best we can with the circumstances that we are in.

Um, entrepreneurship takes tons of time and effort and late nights, and doing that inside the overlanding space requires you to [00:04:00] travel when the jobs hit good, you know, hit big, and leave. Um, so what we have done, we’ve done two things. We, Shelly and I proactively went to counseling probably starting almost five years ago.

And for a ti- at the time she was going through, uh, she was doing the XL’s racing, and she had, uh, y- the You Are Loved campaign. It was bringing up, um, just awareness towards sexual abuse that she had gone through, and was bringing awareness to that. And so that, going, bringing up things like that inside of a marriage is pretty intense.

Matt Scott (2): Mm.

Clay Croft: And so we said, “Okay, we wanna do this. We want other people to have freedom from these things, but we better make sure that we have our ducks in a row before, as we step through this.” So we, we sought out a counselor, and his name’s Mark. And we’ve been seeing Mark now for five years. Sometimes once a week, sometimes it’s three months apart.

But, uh, we [00:05:00] proactively pursued our marriage first so that we could hopefully help other people. And then when it came to the kids, we decided that we’re gonna, we’re gonna be gone a lot. That’s just the reality of what we do, and if we can make the time that we do have really intentional, that it’ll be okay.

My dad was a truck driver, and he was gone over the road trucking all the time for years. And he made his time with us intentional. And I can look back on my childhood and I can say I had a really great relationship with my dad. Uh, he wasn’t there every night doing all that stuff, but the time I did have with him was awesome, and I have no…

I wouldn’t change anything about my childhood. So I just wanted to relay that to my kids, too. And I, I can- Thankfully I had a good example …

Scott Brady: I can see that when I’m with you in Montana. I can see how you, how you are intentional towards your boys, and you want them to experience life. You want them-

Clay Croft: Mm-hmm … to

Scott Brady: develop those skills.

I mean, what are some of the [00:06:00] things that you’ve taught your boys that you’re so glad you sh- you exposed them to?

Clay Croft: that we teach all of our boys to be leaders right off the bat. And I think a lot of parents can pick out one of their kids and say, “You’re a leader.” And we try to make all of our children, you know, they’ll be leaders in something.

So we try to encourage them there, and then try to encourage them in the way of teamwork, that they are a team, and, uh, instead of brothers. And that, that seems to be effective.

Scott Brady: Mm.

Clay Croft: Um, and then instill in them that adventure’s good, mistakes are good, and if you’re not failing, then you’re not, you know- Not learning

pushing hard enough. Yeah. Yeah. Failure is okay. Yeah, this year we got the motorcycles. Yeah. We got some dirt bikes, and they’ve been failing. We were talking about this, uh, just last week, how good it’s been for the kids to, like, put them in something that’s scary- It’s good for them … make them go do some stuff.

And yeah, and I think that’s been good for them.

Scott Brady: You know, hearing you [00:07:00] say that, Clay, I, I can see how you’ve had those same parallels in your own life. The team that you’ve pulled together, how you try to have everyone that’s involved with EXO be a leader in their own right. Mm-hmm. How you have stretched yourselves and your organization.

Um, tell us a little bit about how you selected the team of people that have been in your most recent, um, series of XOVERLAND. I mean, Kurt Williams obviously comes- Yep … to mind. Amazing guy.

Clay Croft: Yep.

Scott Brady: A friend to, to all of us, friend to the industry. Uh, Kurt runs Cruiser Outfitters in Salt Lake City. But talk a little bit about what do you do to bring together a team of people, because we can all see it in your production video on YouTube and on Amazon that, um, you guys are a team.

And it doesn’t mean you don’t have challenges or difficulties- Sure … but how do you, how do you address that as a group?

Clay Croft: Yeah I

Matt Scott (2): mean, you guys portray teams, you know, being a team on, on that show. Like, it’s… [00:08:00] It comes across.

Clay Croft: Yeah. Well, thank you. I, and that’s, that, that s- feels good because we do work towards that.

Um, in the last three years, we’ve had a lot of changeover with our team. The original team was easy. They were guys that I knew for a long time, and I just knew who they were. And I just… You know, when you know guys for a long time, y- you understand where they’re gonna fit and where they aren’t. And so I just had a great pool of folks to, you know, to pull into the team.

Um, as we got six or seven years into Expedition Overland, that… EXO is a, a high demand, and we started to lose people. And then marriage. Yeah. Jeff and Heather got married, you know, through EXO, or part of being through, in EXO, and they, they moved out of town and things like that. So we really got to this point where we had to, like, really start selecting new team members.

And when I look at what I’ve had to do in the last three years and what I’ve managed with teams, it really boils down to, first, [00:09:00] maturity. You have to express a certain amount of maturity right off the bat. Uh, and that is a priority over any skill set. If a- Well, you can teach people other stuff. Exactly, but you can’t…

Maturity takes time. That’s a slow cook, you know? And, uh, so if they at least… If, if… And, and one of the best indicators of that is teachability and the ability to listen even though they may know the answer or whatnot, but they’re there to say, “Yes, tell me more. I, I may not know everything. I wanna know what you know.”

Mm. You get the guy in there that’s, “Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah,” and he’s probably the wrong guy, you know? So we’ve scoured and, uh, frankly, some of it has just been- I wouldn’t say luck. It’s, it’s nurturing relationships that have been around for a long time. Some, like Brian and Megan that came in this year, college.

You know, we’re talking how long ago was college? 2001. So we’re talking 18 years since I’ve really hung out with [00:10:00] Brian and Megan. But I knew that from way back when and keeping in contact that they were a, an awesome group of, uh, couple to bring in. So some of this stuff ta- just takes 20 years to figure out or bring in.

Scott Brady: And I find when I try to pull together a team like what we experienced with Expedition 7, um, one thing I really look at is emotional countenance, right? Mm. Is the person able to-

Clay Croft: Yeah …

Scott Brady: to be kind and cons- Mm-hmm … like are they able to maintain their humanity even when things start to go sideways? ‘Cause I find that people who have very weak emotional countenance, they tend to do very poorly in team endeavors anyways.

Matt Scott (2): They’re easily frustrated.

Scott Brady: Easily frustrated, and that can blow up in a border. They can have a tantrum because there’s some issue with a document, and that can easily escalate the issue or start that cascade of events we talk about where- Mm … that one small emotional blow up then results in someone ending up in prison- Yeah

at the other end of it. Um, Matt, what [00:11:00] are some things that you’ve seen in your tra- Like what’s, what do you look for in people that you travel with?

Matt Scott (2): I think people have to be self-aware. That’s, that’s my biggest thing, honestly. Absolutely. People need to be able to admit that they’re wrong.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Matt Scott (2): You know?

But it, I mean, I’m, and I’m not saying that you shouldn’t stand up for when you’re right, because all, by all means you should. But, you know, being able to, to admit, “Hey, you know, the reason the vehicle failed was because of me. The reason we missed this border was because of me. The reason that, you know, we’re stuck in this, you know, swamp at 2:00 in the morning when, you know, your significant other told you not to-

Clay Croft: Go

Matt Scott (2): that way

go through that way, uh, it’s, it’s because of you.” And I, and I think, I think that that has parallels through so many things, through business, through personal relationships. I look at, I look at the people I’m close with, people I work with, the people that I’ve assembled a team with, and, and, and they’re self-aware.

They- Mm. I, I think it’s important to know your strengths as [00:12:00] much as it is to know your weaknesses.

Scott Brady: That sounds like that parallels with this teachability idea. Someone who has self-awareness, they’re willing to be teach- teachable. They’re willing, even if they think they know the answer, to listen

Matt Scott (2): to someone else’s approach.

Pe- people that ask questions are good.

Scott Brady: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Matt Scott (2): Absolutely. You know, like, that was drilled into, you know, that was drilled into me at a young age, is ask questions. And if, and if you, if you’re around people who are not willing to take the time to answer the question, you probably shouldn’t… They, they don’t care about you, right?

Like-

Clay Croft: Yeah …

Matt Scott (2): you know, time, time is very finite and, um, you know, again, being self-aware enough to, to not waste time, but, uh, to, to recognize the value of others’ time and, uh, to be realistic. Yes.

Clay Croft: There’s another side to that, too. When, when I’m asking and interviewing for que- uh, team members, I’ll ask a series of questions, and one of them is, uh, “What are your strengths?”

obviously. And people love to tell you their strengths, but [00:13:00] the, the guys that are really self-aware know their weaknesses, too, and they will admit their weaknesses. “I have a hard time here and here.” So, uh, if you got a guy that can be able to do that, that guy will excel quickly inside of a team because we’ve hear- all heard it before, your weaknesses are as important as your strengths.

And understanding them, you get a lot of teams that show up, and everyone knows what they’re good at, but no one doesn’t… Nobody knows what the other guy isn’t good at. So that, that sets up a big learning curve, and if you can find out what that is right away and a person’s able to ex- express their weakness, your team just hit another level way, much, much sooner than…

That may take a long time in the field to sort out.

Scott Brady: Yeah, so true. And, and what I’ve found is that the, the more quickly you can get to that point you just described, uh, the more effective the team will be under duress, uh, when something [00:14:00] really goes sideways. I mean, Clay, you and I have had the chance to travel some very cool places together, including crossing Greenland and crossing Russia.

Um, and in both of those scenarios, we encountered times that were, um… We were concerned for our safety in some way or another. Maybe it was a crevasse zone we were traveling through or, or maybe it was because we nearly did a head-on with a Russian driver coming the other direction. Mm-hmm. Um, but it does definitely quickly tell you the quality of character of the people you’re traveling with once things start to not go well.

Um, and that’s how you know who you wanna travel with in the future. Um, and it’s really a good idea to start off with a shorter trip. Yeah. Start off with something simple. Do

Clay Croft: something small first, yeah. And

Scott Brady: see how the… See how people really fit. Um, and you know, that kind of brings up the next question for me, Clay.

Um, you have definitely been, uh, if not a virtual, a, an actual mentor to many people in the industry. Um, when people watch your videos, they… I’ll often hear them [00:15:00] talk about, “He’s such a, such a good dad,” or, “He’s a, he’s a good leader,” or, “He’s really… He’s, this team really communicates well together.” Um, tell me, tell me what started that for you.

I mean, what brought about… ‘Cause I consider you a, a man of character. What, what really brought that about for you? What are some of the things that happened earlier in your life or- Mm … the people that were your mentor, um, or mentors that really brought that about? What were some of those keystones to that?

Clay Croft: Um, I would say- When I was young, uh, my family raised a… W- was part of a big ranch in Montana, the Scott Ranch. And growing up with cowboys, there is a whole lot of code inside, in a cowboy. And my dad was a cowboy, my mom grew up, you know, in a, in a very intense cowboy world, and they have a lot of values that they poured on us.

And so I think that’s the first thing. The next thing [00:16:00] is, uh, my dad ran his own business being a truck driver, and I would go with him, and I saw him interact on the road with clients and he would teach me a lot of stuff. “This is, this is what I’m doing. This is why. This is why I said that, because I’m afraid of this,” you know?

“So I wanna make sure they feel these things,” you know? Um, all, all from a very genuine place. So there’s that. And then, um, obviously for me, you know, growing up in the, in the Christian Church was a big part of morality and, you know, under- you know, what I have as values, and I still hold onto those very strongly today.

Scott Brady: It’s made you a wonderful person.

Clay Croft: No, thank you.

Scott Brady: Oh, that’s for sure. You and your whole family

Clay Croft: Yeah, and then when it came to leadership, um, the National Outdoor Leadership School. I did a NOLS class, uh, the year I graduated, 2001, high school. I’m 37 now. And I [00:17:00] went into the backcountry for mountaineering school, and it was half mountaineering and half leadership, and we learned how we ticked right there.

And by the time I walked out of that school 30 days later, I had a general understanding of what I was good at and what I wasn’t, ’cause they flush it out of you, you know? And then they make you start to work through it. So I really think that that’s probably the best thing I ever did. I did school, and I did college and some of that.

I never graduated, but the best money and time I ever spent was the National Outdoor Leadership School.

Scott Brady: Well, that’s great advice, for sure. Mm-hmm. And kind of along that same line of giving people advice, um, I know a lot of people listening will have their own aspirations of being- Mm … cinematographers or their own aspirations of documenting their own adventures.

Um, what are a couple tips that you can give people as… I mean, watching you work in, in Greenland with a single camera and, and the, the quality of the output that you did at the other [00:18:00] end of it was unbelievable. Uh, what would you recommend people start with? Maybe a few equipment tips and some other ideas to help people better capture their own

Clay Croft: journey.

Sure. Well, to start off, you need to be your own man. If, if you’re looking to do something that someone else has already done and you wanna do that too, it’s already probably a dead end. You need to find a way to be your own man and do those, whatever project it is, on your own. It, we, we can take adapt- adaptations, of course, but that, that to me is, like, the, the first start to something that will be successful.

Uh, from there, we can get into the nitty gritties of camera work. But for me, when I approach a scene and I approach movie making, I try to see it from three levels. Well, four. The 30,000-foot level, and then work your way in. The wide shot, the medium shot, and the tight shot. The wide shot is all the details.[00:19:00]

The medium shot is the meat, and the details is what makes it savory. So you work your way into a scene starting that way, and then you work your way back out. Mm. And if you can see where those transition points are, and this is, you have to be able to flip your brain all the time. I’m in the middle of the details, but I’m using my ears right now to what’s happening around me.

I need to be able to zip out to a 30,000-foot level real quick and recognize when I need to start filming a transition to whatever’s a- about to happen next. Mm. Um, and that’s kinda the skill set that I’ve been working on trying to perfect over, well, as long as I’ve been doing it. Um- Equipment choice. I had this guy, uh, Andrew was his name.

I can’t remember his last name. He came in, uh, when I was just starting Ex- EXO. He does photography for us. He was working for EXO Officio at the time, and I asked him a very similar question, and I said, you know, “What do you, what would you recommend for me as a young photographer trying to go do all this stuff?”[00:20:00]

And he said, uh, “Don’t get caught up in the gear.” Yeah.

Matt Scott (2): Mm.

Clay Croft: Uh, y- the tool is between your ears, and, uh, you can run yourself out of money and go broke quick trying to keep up with the equipment. It’s not what’s necessary. So I’ve taken that to heart, and it took a long time to go to 4K, and it took, you know…

But I have recognized that there are some tools that are essential to have to get, keep an edge. And right now I’m kind of at a loss what that new tool is. It was drones for a while. We invested heavily in those to tell stories and things like that, and everybody’s got them now. So I’m still looking for that next thing, but that’s where I would invest in equipment.

It’s whatever that next thing is, uh, that gives you a real edge, not just the fad. There’s a lot of fads that come and go. Like, since we started EXO, how many different transition fads have you seen? How, how many

Matt Scott (2): slider shots

Clay Croft: can we see on YouTube now? Yeah. Yeah, and it started, and, and I’ve fallen trap to [00:21:00] all of it too, the slow-mo stuff, the slider stuff, the…

But At the t- still we’re making current films that need to be relevant currently Yeah, yeah,

Matt Scott (2): of course.

Clay Croft: But yet you’re still looking for that long-term piece, and really it’s gonna be in the skill set. Mm-hmm. It’s not gonna be in the equipment.

Scott Brady: So speaking of a, of a long-term piece, tell us a little bit about the Greenland film.

What’s, what’s happening with that?

Clay Croft: Yeah. Greenland film is… What an interesting project that was because I went into it, when I talked to Greg, when we’re all talking about going to Greenland, he, when he asked me to go, I said, “Yeah, I would love to go, but if I’m gonna be gone for a month, I need to be able to do something with Expedition Overland.”

And he said, “Absolutely.” So my intention was to go in there and shoot a couple episodes for Overlander, and then when we got there, I mean, it was apparent the very second that we arrived that this was something so much bigger. And, uh, started just filming it the best I could under the circumstances that we were all going through, [00:22:00] and, um, went through the systems that I knew from doing Expedition Overland and, and came out with a, a lot of material.

Not as much material as I wish I had. I would’ve done that better. Had I known I was gonna make a movie at the time, I would’ve shot a couple different things. Maybe I would’ve pushed a little harder. Uh, but it worked out. And, but anyway, we got home, started going through this footage. I was like, “Man, this has got to be something more.

This is a bigger story. This is the biggest thing I’ve been a part of. This is the biggest thing that I think a lot of these other guys have been a part of, and I think the world would need to see this in a more meaningful way than what we’re doing right now. And the only way to do that is to put it into a movie format and, uh, give it the credibility that it deserved.”

So I went and I approached Greg on it, and I worked for two months on an edit to g- o- on our own dime and everything to, to get him up, and I convinced him to come up to Bozeman. He drove up in his Land Cruiser one day and I said, [00:23:00] “This is what we wanna do. This is what it looks like. Here’s the rough cut of, like, a very…”

A- and it was, like, two and a half hours long at the time. And he sat at the end of it, he’s like, “We’re doing this.” And that kicked it off, and for nine months I cut on that film to get it to where it was then. We did interviews and all kind of… It, it grew and became something bigger and- It was a fun- … it was a wonderful project.

Yeah, fun. Yeah, I can’t wait for people to see it. Uh, currently it has been, uh, submitted to the Sundance Film Festival, uh, just about a month ago, and we wait until December 6th of ’19 here to find out what happens. And if it doesn’t, if it gets in, awesome. If it doesn’t, we’re gonna keep moving it through other festivals and eventually it’ll be out there so that the world can see it.

Scott Brady: Oh, that’s exciting, man. That’s, that’s gonna be-

Clay Croft: It is. It was a dream come true. It’s gonna be amazing to see it. You know, it, it, it checked, um, it started, I don’t wanna say it checked the box, ’cause I think it started a new chapter for me to do a project that [00:24:00] was 100% to the m- best of my abilities within all the means I could find.

You know, that was really fun.

Matt Scott (2): And it couldn’t have been easy ’cause it was just you filming.

Clay Croft: Yeah.

Matt Scott (2): In 30 days on the ice?

Clay Croft: Uh, 21 days

Matt Scott (2): on the ice. 21 days on the ice.

Clay Croft: Yeah. And, uh- Had a lot of problems. Yeah, there was so many problems. There was, you know, all the equipment problems, but then my microphone died.

My main microphone quit working half- well, right when we got, you know, into the north part of Wolf Land, my main mic quit. So I had to haul… Not many people know this, but like the last half of that movie, the last third is recorded off the internal microphone on a 7R Mark III. That little, teeny microphone thing is what recorded it all, and it turned out pretty dang good.

Scott Brady: Yeah. Well, and you have to deal with the frostbite. I mean, I remember by the middle of the trip, I completely lost feeling in my middle [00:25:00]

Clay Croft: finger on my left hand. Yeah.

Matt Scott (2): Like, this

Scott Brady: was-

Matt Scott (2): Dang …

Scott Brady: not

Matt Scott (2): an easy

Scott Brady: trip for you guys.

Clay Croft: No. No, no. And even to this day, like knowing what I know now, if you asked me to go back and do it again, the answer is yes.

Matt Scott (2): I need to drag you guys someplace warm.

Scott Brady: Yeah, we do need to go some- Yeah … someplace tropical.

Matt Scott (2): Vietnam

Scott Brady: with

Matt Scott (2): scooters and 25 cent beers.

Scott Brady: I think that actually came up at some point in the trip. We were talking about- Yeah … doing 50cc scooters somewhere.

Clay Croft: Yeah, so let’s do something different last- With flip-

Scott Brady: flops.

Yeah.

Clay Croft: Yeah, it took me a while to recover from that. I, I, I even hate to- I mean, you were

Matt Scott (2): burned out for… I don’t want to use the word burned

Clay Croft: out, but- No, it’s, it’s the right word.

Matt Scott (2): Yeah. I

Clay Croft: was burned out for a while. 2019, 20- last half of ’18 and into ’19 here, it’s been a tough year.

Matt Scott (2): Yeah. It’s been a tough go. And, and, and I mean, and I mean, I guess for everybody that doesn’t know, I mean, you guys were the first team to do a north-south crossing of Greenland.

I mean, this is-

Clay Croft: Mm-hmm …

Matt Scott (2): is, is that, is that actually correct? Yeah.

Clay Croft: South- Yeah … south to the north It had never been-

Matt Scott (2): It has never been done before … south to the north in vehicles, like- And then

Clay Croft: most of the way back …

Matt Scott (2): when you guys were at like abandoned, like US military facilities from- We were … the Cold War that- Yep

I remember [00:26:00] Scott, you saying there’s like still milk in the, the cupboards or, or- Yeah … that, that, that sort of thing. I mean- Yeah,

Scott Brady: there’s beer in the bar. It’s

Matt Scott (2): unbelievable … like, like this, this wasn’t… This was a legitimate expedition. You know, I think that the, the, the term gets thrown around quite a bit these days, but- Yeah

this was… I mean, you, you had to have medical staff with you because if you messed up- You know- Yeah, it- … it’s not like you had a long walk home. Yeah. You, you were done. You

Clay Croft: were done.

Scott Brady: Yeah, we had a, an ER doctor by the name of John Solberg along with us, and we needed to because we were essentially in these areas of inaccessibility where you could not get a rescue helicopter in easily-

Clay Croft: Yeah

Scott Brady: um, to pick us up. So John would have to stabilize or maybe even deal with an emergency appendectomy, um, in the middle of the Greenland ice sheet.

Clay Croft: He learned h- he, like, read up on how to do… you know, remove an appendix before he left.

Matt Scott (2): Which- Was it appendix that in, in, in, in Australia for Bruce?

Scott Brady: It was an appendix

Matt Scott (2): for Bruce.

Yeah. So, [00:27:00] so earlier on Expedition 7, that was almost a thing.

Scott Brady: It actually-

Matt Scott (2): Yeah … was

Scott Brady: almost

Clay Croft: a thing. There’s two things I worry about- On the

Matt Scott (2): Canning Stock Route …

Clay Croft: it’s my appendix and teeth. Mm. You know, if any of those two things go down, man, oh, it’s gonna be horrible.

Scott Brady: It can be hor- yeah, teeth can be debilitating.

Clay Croft: Yeah.

Scott Brady: It’s amazing, and th- that’s definitely something for the listeners to be mindful of is when you plan a big trip, go to the dentist before you go. Get all of that sorted out before you leave because, yeah, teeth can literally bring you down or, you know, get you really sick too- Yeah … if you have an infection, so…

The

Clay Croft: good thing is you can pull them out if it gets real bad. Yeah. Can’t do that necessarily with your appendix.

Scott Brady: Not as easily.

Clay Croft: Not as easily.

Matt Scott (2): So, so-

Clay Croft: Scott, Scott, I got this pocket knife.

Matt Scott (2): You want me to come help? So when we were talking about, you know, camera gear, and you said- Yeah … you know, your advice was don’t get caught up in the gear, um, do you think sometimes people in this industry have a tendency to get caught up in the gear and, and, and not travel?

Clay Croft: You know- That is a loaded question.

Matt Scott (2): Oh, it is. It is a loaded question, but that’s why we’re here is to ask- … the real things.

Clay Croft: Yes. Yeah. [00:28:00] And I’m guilty of it too.

Matt Scott (2): We all are.

Clay Croft: Yeah.

Matt Scott (2): We all are.

Clay Croft: Yeah.

Scott Brady: Shi- shiny object, right?

Clay Croft: Yeah, and here’s the deal. I’ve really pulled back in some ways. I don’t know, ask me tomorrow, it’ll be a different answer, but- The gear is a lot of part of the fun.

Matt Scott (2): Yeah,

Clay Croft: yeah. It’s a big part of the fun.

Matt Scott (2): It enables the adventure.

Clay Croft: Yeah, and as I’ve gone through the different cycles of adventure and going on trips and then not being able to go on trips, you know, and I’ve kind of evaluated myself, the gear can help you get… The selection of gear and the picking of this and buying of that- You

Matt Scott (2): have to have good gear

Clay Croft: it can, it can help you get through the, the dry time, you know? And then you get on the adventure and you realize, “Okay, a lot of this stuff I didn’t need,” you know? But it’s there. It’s just, it’s part of the process, and I don’t know if we’ll ever eliminate it. I think you just need to be aware of it. I

Matt Scott (2): don’t think…

I, I think it should… I mean, it’s not a problem. And, and, and maybe I should backtrack there. I don’t think there’s a problem. I just think, you know-

Clay Croft: Where

Matt Scott (2): there is a problem- … well, [00:29:00] what’s your, what’s, what’s, what’s your advice for getting people out on the road? I mean, I mean, how do you think you can… I mean, other than dedicating your life to making a, you know- Yeah

a series that it, uh, you know, influences adventure.

Scott Brady: Mm-hmm.

Matt Scott (2): Um, you know, there’s, there’s that small thing that you’ve done. Yeah. I mean, what’s- Sure … what’s your advice to take somebody that is, you know, like y- your, your average person, uh, three kids like yourself, married, you know, has a nice life, ha- has, has, you know, probably the financial ability to do these things, but may not have the, I- I’m gonna use the term emotional ability.

I mean, it, it, it takes a lot to, to, to do a 180 in your life, you know?

Clay Croft: Yeah.

Matt Scott (2): And, and you did that 180 in a, in a, in a, in a big way. I mean, you, you, you jumped off in, into the deep end. You, you did the traveling and, and the, you know, turned that into your career as well. Mm-hmm. But for a guy that wants to get out- What, what, what do you tell him?

Clay Croft: Yeah. Uh, [00:30:00] it’s that classic take small steps, baby steps with a- Yeah … big picture in mind. You can work. You can become… I think you can become an established or an experienced explorer over time without ever going on a big trip. Eventually, you have to.

Matt Scott (2): Yeah.

Clay Croft: I mean, that’s… But you can get… What I’m saying is you can get a lot of the skillsets in small steps, small trips, and you, if you focus on this, right now I’m focusing on fuel management on this one.

This one’s, uh, maybe mechanical stuff. This one’s food preparation. This one’s… Et cetera. And you’re doing this over microadventures. Eventually, you are building the toolbox that you need to execute a big one. Then eventually you’re gonna have to jump and go do something big and put it all to the test. Uh, and that’s really fun.

But you can have these microadventures along the way and put it together. And, uh, I’ve always taken Scott’s advice when it comes to, and w- what I tell people, and I give you credit for this, is your truck’s finished when you’ve taken the last piece of [00:31:00] kit off of it, you know, that you don’t need. If you need it, you need it, sure.

Uh, and so I backtracked, I backfill that with if you’re building your trucks and you’re going on these adventures, make those purchases for that vehicle based out of a need from your microexperience trips, that you’ve actually seen a need for this, not just something that you want.

Matt Scott (2): And, and I think what’s- And you’ll

Clay Croft: go a lot further faster

I

Matt Scott (2): think what’s so cool is, i- i- is, is if you follow along through the history and y- and you watch xOverland, I mean, that’s almost exactly what you did. I mean, I remember when you guys were in Moab with the, the 100 Series and the, was it a first gen Taco? Yep. Was it a second gen Taco?

Clay Croft: No, for, um… It’s 2001, so that would’ve been a second gen.

Matt Scott (2): Yeah.

Clay Croft: First gen. It was first gen.

Matt Scott (2): Tacoma people, please don’t hate us.

Clay Croft: It’s all right. It’s about the adventure.

Matt Scott (2): Or, or, or in my case, uh, please take a number.

Scott Brady: You know, I, I think from my [00:32:00] perspective, um, the industry needs to take responsibility, um, for encouraging people to not overbuild their vehicles. Yeah. Um, and that starts, um, at the manufacturer level, and it goes down to the upfitters, and it includes the media. Um, you know, I think that modifications can be…

They can enhance your trip as long as you do it with that intention in mind. Um, I just want, I want people to be excited about sharing their trip story more short, more so than sharing a picture of their vehicle- Yeah … to somebody else. Um, when that mindset starts to shift and people talk more about where they’ve been, um, than what they talk about what they’ve done- Yeah

with their vehicle, then I think that things are in balance. And you can always tell, um, when you talk… When I talk to someone here at Overland Expo, the more they talk about the truck, the more I know they haven’t traveled because they haven’t made that shift yet. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, I think about, Matt, the trips that you’ve done on 50cc motorcycles in Vietnam, those are some of your [00:33:00] best adventures.

Totally. And there wasn’t, there wasn’t a winch in sight. Um, and it just, I think that obviously equipment can enable things. Like what we did in Greenland would’ve been impossible- Yeah … without extensive modifications to those trucks. That is the reason to do it- Mm-hmm … is because it’s the only way you’re gonna achieve your goal.

Um, but I think, I think what I shared even today in a class at Overland Expo was, um, if you’re spending more money on the truck than you are on travel, flip the script and start- Yeah … to spend more money on your trips than you do- Yeah … on the truck.

Matt Scott (2): Yeah, and I think it’s fair to say, I mean, y- there are- A lot of equipment is very, very useful, right?

You just don’t wanna be the guy that has so much equipment. I mean, if you, if you are truly a traveler, you know, yeah, flip, flip the switch. I mean, I… You can take a Subaru Crosstrek around the world. I mean, people do every day. Absolutely. Yep. I mean, I, I’ve been to some very, very random places, and here I am on 37s or with my crazy suspension or [00:34:00] something, and a local family passes, you know, passes me the other way in a- So, yeah

in a, in a, in a Corolla. I mean, the, the rule is there will always be a Corolla- Mm-hmm … or a scooter or something and, um- Rental car.

Scott Brady: Yeah, you’ll be humbled. You’ll be totally humbled. I mean, I, I remember crossing parts of Colombia, um, in towards the Venezuelan border, and I was on a GS and I was working hard.

Matt Scott (2): Mm.

Scott Brady: And I was adventuring to the max. Here comes two local dudes, two up on a 50 cc motorcycle, and they just… They blew by me like, like they were the, winning the Dakar. And they were two up, and they were just heading to their ranch or whatever they were doing. Yeah. So I just think- Like every

Matt Scott (2): day.

Scott Brady: Yeah, it’s just so important that we maintain that perspective of- Yeah

of, um, add the modifications that you need to, but make the focus to be to get out and travel. And that, and that brings up my next question, which is you’re embarking on some new adventures. You just started taking up powered paragliding. Um, and maybe did, did you do [00:35:00] it ’cause it, you felt like a rookie all over again?

Clay Croft: I absolutely did it for that. Well, I’ve always wanted to fly, but there’s just something about being challenged, and that’s what… Overlanding, when I first began, was a big challenge for me. I eventually learned a lot of the systems and was able to go on really amazing trips and, and get comfortable with it.

And that’s… Once you get comfortable, what’s the saying? You get comfortable, you’re dying or something. Yeah. You know? It’s, it’s- Yeah,

Scott Brady: you’re either growing or you’re…

Clay Croft: Or you’re I recognized I was in that spot. And some people have said, “Oh, you did it just to elevate the show.” No, I would’ve done it regardless.

Uh, I just wanted to challenge myself. And flight’s been a big deal for me. I, I tr- I went to get a private pilot’s license, but I was shut down due to a class three medical at the time. This was a few years ago, and I just never was able to get back, d- did the training and stuff. I had a narrow window there.

This was something that I could do. This is something I could step into. [00:36:00] 10 days of training. The cost is fairly low, but I could go and get it and start having that experience. And, uh, it’s been refreshing ’cause there’s not a whole lot you can do to a powered paraglider. You can’t modify that thing. The heavier it gets, the worse it gets.

Mm. So there’s not much to do to it. No light bars or something. You just need to go and, yeah, there’s no light bars yet on my powered paraglider. We’ll

Matt Scott (2): work on them afterwards.

Clay Croft: Yeah. We’re working on that. So that has been what it is for me, is it’s an experience driven thing that I’ve been able to incorporate into another experience driven thing of overlanding.

Scott Brady: And have you started to film some of that? Is that something we’re gonna see soon?

Clay Croft: Yeah. We have filmed seven episodes. Uh, we were gonna break it into two series, but I got into the edit and I was like, “This is all one big story, and I need to tell it that way.” So we’re seven episodes in. We’ve, uh, film… of our nine-part series that we’re shooting [00:37:00] this year, and I do have two more episodes to film from Utah down into Mexico coming up, and it should be good.

We’ve been getting our butts kicked. It’s been hard, and it’s been good.

Scott Brady: And where can people find that content right now?

Clay Croft: Yeah. Um, that content will be released on YouTube on our Expedition Overland channel. Follow our social stuff, too, for the updates as it gets closer. And then, um, I’m hoping that later next year I can find a way to get it also on Amazon Prime, just like our previous three seasons were.

Yeah, ’cause

Matt Scott (2): you’re on Amazon Prime now.

Clay Croft: We are. We are. That’s been a- That’s an accomplishment … that was a big deal.

Matt Scott (2): Overlanding has gone Prime time. Yeah.

Clay Croft: I think that’s pretty cool.

Matt Scott (2): Yeah.

Clay Croft: Yeah. Very cool. It was a, a big dream. Uh, we’ve always built our content to thrive on the big screen, and YouTube was the platform that allowed it at the time.

When we started on YouTube, it only allowed 10-minute videos.

Matt Scott (2): I remember. Remember that? It was, it was a deal that you, you had to have so many followers until you could have a- Yeah … video above 10 minutes. [00:38:00] Yeah.

Clay Croft: And that was a struggle at first. And that was a struggle at first, and you had to, you know… We’ve gone through it, but it was always built for the big screen.

Yeah. It was built for bigger platforms, ’cause that’s the, that’s the field I wanna play on. So eventually we got there. Just took nine years.

Scott Brady: Oh, that’s amazing though. That’s… So what’s, what has been your f- most favorite vehicle you’ve ever owned?

Clay Croft: Ooh.

Matt Scott (2): Also a

Clay Croft: loaded

Matt Scott (2): question.

Clay Croft: That is a, that is a hard question.

I think right now it’s I’m a Tacoma guy. I am a Tacoma guy. I do really like that X3 Meridian with the habitat on the back. Mm. Love that.

Matt Scott (2): Not the 60?

Clay Croft: The 62 series, that is like, that’s like your, your baby. It’s

Matt Scott (2): your soul. It’s your

Clay Croft: soul. Yeah, it’s got soul to it, you know? And I haven’t driven that in over a year.

It’s, I’m, I… That’s parked and put away and, ’cause I can’t, I can’t give it the attention it deserves. Mm-hmm. You know? So it’s, it’s put away in the, in my dad’s barn right now.

Matt Scott (2): [00:39:00] I mean, that, the Meridian, it’s such a practical vehicle, right? Mm-hmm. I mean, what more could you ask? I believe it has a heater in it.

Mm. It has the AT habitat.

Clay Croft: Yeah. It’s, it’s

Matt Scott (2): the get up- You know, it’s just so built … get

Clay Croft: in and go truck.

Matt Scott (2): And it’s relatively lightweight too. I mean, all your sliders.

Clay Croft: It’s good.

Matt Scott (2): It’s, yeah. It’s- And CBI, do all your stuff in aluminum, I want to say, right? It’s

Clay Croft: all aluminum. It’s super light. It’s a really well-built truck.

Yeah. I think it’s one of our best built trucks we’ve ever done. Um, I love my Prospector right now for it’s my daily driver, and, uh, that, for different reasons, you know, is due to its strengths

Scott Brady: Can’t

Clay Croft: beat the 200 series If you, if you- I, I, it’s a hard thing to pick

Scott Brady: So if you were to leave, if you had to tomorrow, somebody said, “Clay, I’m handing you a million bucks.

I need you to drive around the world. You can pick one vehicle, something you currently own or something you could magically make appear the next day.” Oh. What would you leave in? Anything you wanted.

Clay Croft: Well, if it was in my fleet, it would be… If, and I had to drive around the world- Yeah … it would be the 200 series.

Scott Brady: No doubt.

Clay Croft: Um-

Scott Brady: It’s comfy. [00:40:00]

Clay Croft: Yeah.

Scott Brady: And capable and-

Clay Croft: Yeah …

Scott Brady: global serviceable.

Clay Croft: Yeah. Yeah. The, there’s a lot of… It makes… And I’d put a bed in the back, I’d sleep in the bed, and I’d scoot. Yep. If I had anything, I really am… Right now, uh, I, I’d like to really build a Prospector with a four-wheel camper in the back.

Something like that would be really good, but the diesel platform wouldn’t be great for global stuff right now- Oh, right … with the DEF and all that. So it’d probably have to go back to some form of gas. Yeah. You know, you, yeah, I

Scott Brady: don’t

Clay Croft: know. Tough spot. It is a really tough spot. I don’t know. If, if diesel things weren’t a problem, probably look at, uh, like, these Global X vehicles, the four.

Sure. What’s the, the four-door one with the… I could put my family in it and go. Yeah. Those are kinda cool. Nothing bigger than that. That’s already really big. Yeah. But, uh, yeah, I think right now, maybe a four-wheel camper and big long range tanks and-

Scott Brady: Off you go …

Clay Croft: go.

Scott Brady: Awesome. Well, how fun would that be, right?

Clay Croft: Oh, man.

Scott Brady: How about you, Matt? Same question. I’m gonna do it in a little

Clay Croft: way, I think.

Scott Brady: You gotta leave [00:41:00] tomorrow. A

Matt Scott (2): million bucks?

Scott Brady: And y- yeah. Well, you get a m- yeah A

Matt Scott (2): million bucks and

Scott Brady: a half. You, you never have to come back. You gotta pick a car, you gotta leave tomorrow.

Clay Croft: Yeah.

Matt Scott (2): A million bucks. Oh, man, that is a question.

You know, the Gladiator would be a, would, would be the reasonable choice, but I know I… It, it would be, like, a Lotus Elise- … or something. And I, and I would just stay at the Four Seasons. You know, I mean, I, I, I’ve, I’ve done the camping thing, and now everybody’s gonna hate me, but just something different. I mean, I think life is just about experiences, and I like to do things that are-

Clay Croft: Yep

Matt Scott (2): that are drastically different. I mean-

Clay Croft: Yeah …

Matt Scott (2): you know, uh, I, I think to a certain extent you can, you can really isolate yourself from adventure- You know, it was the Yvon Chouinard adventures when things started going wrong. Right. Um, you know, and I, and I think that remains true. I think, I think you can’t, you can’t set yourself up for too much success.

Scott Brady: Mm-hmm.

Matt Scott (2): Whether I’d really take a Lotus, I don’t know. But I, I, I think something different. I think a, a Grand Cherokee Trackhawk would be a real interesting one- … or an SRT8 or something. Just race people randomly all over the world. Just, just, just 707 [00:42:00] horsepower.

Clay Croft: What about the Pontiac Aztek with the, uh, tent in the back?

Matt Scott (2): Okay. So, so here’s the deal, man. The Pontiac Aztek-

Clay Croft: Uh-huh …

Matt Scott (2): very easy to hate on, but it was way ahead of its time. It was way ahead of its time. It was essentially, like, really the first crossover that we saw. I mean, like, you’d gouge your eyes out before you really looked at it. Mm-hmm. But when you were in it, like, it was an activ- It, it was that first kind of activity vehicle, and I think that that really…

I think that was ahead of its time. I think the Nissan Xterra was ahead of its time. Like-

Clay Croft: I wanted one

Matt Scott (2): so bad … Nissan, if you’re listening, like, come on, man. What-

Clay Croft: Yeah …

Matt Scott (2): why is there no Xterra right now? Um, there’s been a lot of vehicles like that. I mean, I don’t know. Brady, what, what, what, what would you do?

What would you drive?

Scott Brady: So I was walking down the aisle over here. There’s this Triumph booth, and there’s this Triumph Scrambler 1200 XE. It’s like this vintage Scrambler.

Matt Scott (2): Yeah, yeah. That’s very Scotty.

Scott Brady: I would just get on that bike. I wouldn’t even, I wouldn’t even add luggage to it yet. I would just start riding and I’d figure it out along the way.

Head

Matt Scott (2): to the Bellstaff store with your- Yeah … with your Triumph and then [00:43:00] leave.

Scott Brady: Poetic. Yeah. And yeah, then I could put it on a plane. I would be out of the United States and into Europe in 48 hours.

Clay Croft: Yeah, that’s pretty cool.

Scott Brady: But I think if it was a vehicle, I’d be pretty tempted by, um, Dave Harrington built a, a regular cab Dodge Ram with a flatbed.

I’d be really tempted to do that-

Matt Scott (2): Mm-hmm …

Scott Brady: with some kind of a, of a camping module or camper- On the back … on the back.

Matt Scott (2): Um- How

Scott Brady: about

Matt Scott (2): Dave’s Outpost?

Scott Brady: Yeah, Outpost- Ooh … would be perfect, and it’s gas, too, so it’d easily consume fuel around the world. Um, it’s actually really nicely done. Like, I was able to be in that vehicle across the Altar Desert, and it’s very nicely done.

That would be sweet.

Clay Croft: Yeah.

Scott Brady: I mean, that’d be the Instagram- That’s a, that’s a pretty

Clay Croft: high contender.

Scott Brady: That’d be the

Matt Scott (2): Instagram- Yeah. I just wanna be Dave Harrington when

Scott Brady: I grow up.

Matt Scott (2): You know,

Scott Brady: who doesn’t? At least be as smart

Matt Scott (2): as Dave Harrington.

Scott Brady: Yeah. Oh, good. Well, so now that you’ve done all of these things, what, what is the next thing [00:44:00] for you?

We just talked about the idea about going around the world. Yeah. But if you could, Clay, I mean, if you could start to think about, without sharing something that you don’t wanna share, but, like, what is next for you? What is next for XOVERLAND?

Clay Croft: Mm-hmm. That’s a good question. I’ve really been working hard on that.

And, uh, since, since the end of the Pan American series, that’s been a, a bit of a battle because that was such a big vision to accomplish. And there was many, many times when we thought we’ll never be able to do this this way, but we did. And then it, and then it was finished, and it was almost like we outran vision or, you know, had vision fatigue and, at least for myself.

So I’ve been really working hard on that, and I think I’m in the middle of processing what I should do next. Uh, I’ve learned a lot in the last year. I’ve had life events happen in, in the last year that, that shaped me as a person. And I, I just don’t wanna ever get stuck in the rut doing something because that’s what other people think I should be [00:45:00] doing or, or it’s what the industry says I should do or- Or what you did last year, yeah

or, or what I did last year. Uh, so I’ve kind of been going through this big, like, discovery phase again. Didn’t see it coming, but it’s definitely there, and now that I’m there, we’re working through it. We’re talking a lot about it. And I’m, I think I’m on s- getting towards the back end of the troubling part of that.

I’m actually starting to think through good solutions, and it, it’s amazing how much time it takes. And you just gotta go and think sometimes.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Clay Croft: Being so busy doesn’t help with all this.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Clay Croft: Yeah, so I’m, I’m putting myself in a position where I can hopefully make really good decisions coming up.

You’ll just have to see what we end up doing.

Scott Brady: Well, you have a lot of fans in the space, a lot of people who respect what you do, um, on the industry side, and, and hundreds of thousands of subscribers that are passionate about your travel. So we’re all rooting for you. We’re all excited- Thank you … to see, um, what you do next.

Um, since we’re at [00:46:00] Overland Expo, what, what is the thing that you’ve seen here that you thought, “Well, that was really cool”? What was the one- Hmm … one standout that you really liked?

Clay Croft: I’m always looking for the innovation.

Scott Brady: Mm.

Clay Croft: Where… ‘Cause there’s a lot of the same stuff year after year. Yeah. And where’s the innovation?

And, um, I’m seeing it in, like, the flatbed stuff, perhaps going towards more of the Australian things that have been proven down there for a little while. Yeah. We’re starting to see that, and I think that’s good. Um, I think on the human element, being out east here, I have gotten as– I’ve been encouraged a lot by a lot of people walking around today.

Folks out here are really awesome, and I have heard a lot of the folks saying, “This is where I’m going. This is what I’m doing.” There’s, to me, interacting, I’ve heard less truck talk and more travel talk here.

Scott Brady: That’s awesome.

Clay Croft: And I thought that was cool.

Scott Brady: That’s a positive. [00:47:00]

Clay Croft: That’s a positive. How, how about you,

Scott Brady: Matt?

What’s been… Like, other than your dog,

Matt Scott (2): which was awesome. Yeah, my dog’s, my dog’s great.

Clay Croft: Sweet baby Angel.

Matt Scott (2): Sweet angel baby.

Clay Croft: Angel baby. No,

Matt Scott (2): I

Clay Croft: get it right. That

Matt Scott (2): car. Please, consider adopting a greyhound, by the way. What have I seen that’s super cool? You know, this is the first time I’ve seen one of the Bruder trailers.

Clay Croft: Mm.

Matt Scott (2): And, uh-

Clay Croft: They are cool …

Matt Scott (2): you know, I think you’re right. I think, I think the industry’s lacking a little bit in innovation right now. I have my own, my own thoughts on that, but, um, that Bruder is, is really next level. I think as the industry grows, it’s gonna… We need to have those companies. I mean, even if it’s not a, a, a trailer for…

I mean, they’re quite expensive. I mean, are- Yeah … how, how much are those things? Maybe

Scott Brady: 130, 140.

Matt Scott (2): Yeah. I mean, it’s, it’s expensive, but-

Scott Brady: Starting,

Matt Scott (2): yeah … you know, this is the camper trailer that, that Land Rover when they’re launching the Defender for other, you know, their, their pre-release photos, this is what they towed for their photo shoot.

Yeah. Like, it is really, really cool.

Scott Brady: Mm-hmm.

Matt Scott (2): Um, and there’s great attention to detail. Um, [00:48:00] yeah, I mean, there, there’s, there’s a lot of stuff going around, you know. I think unfortunately there’s a lot of the same stuff going around. I think, um, that’s something as an industry we’ll have to soon tackle is, um, you know, how many, how many roof tents can we have without seeing any, any real leap forward in, in quality or innovation?

How many air compressors can we have that are coming from China and Alibaba and that kind of stuff? Yeah.

Scott Brady: Starting to see, I’m starting to see a, um, a lot more diversity in the vehicles- Yeah … when we first- Which is great … when we first started doing Overland Expos, it was like Tacoma, Tacoma, Tacoma, Land Cruiser, 4Runner, maybe a Land Rover.

Clay Croft: Yeah.

Scott Brady: Um, and then, um, we, we’re now starting to see full-size trucks. Full size.

We’re seeing- Yeah … um, Chevy Colorados, we’re seeing- A lot of options … a lot of Jeeps. Um- Yeah … the Gladiator is a significant- The

Matt Scott (2): industry has really- Mm-hmm … taken hold of the Gladiator.

Scott Brady: Yeah, which is, this is all extremely positive, and that- Yeah … might be the thing that sparks that [00:49:00] innovation to a degree. Um, but I think the thing that I took away so far from this Overland Expo that I loved the most was all of the classrooms were full.

In fact- Yeah, that’s fantastic … they were standing room only, and a lot of them had kind of people lined up out the door, um, which in my mind, um, you don’t really have an industry if you don’t have people that want to learn something new and they wanna go experience it- Yeah … themself. Um, and then along with that, there’s, there are couples in the training, and there’s, there’s pe- Lots of couples

there’s people with kids in the training.

Matt Scott (2): Yeah. And, uh- There’s a lot of kids running around. Yeah. There’s a lot of that new generation that we

Scott Brady: have- If you don’t have kids- … to really inspire … and you don’t have families, you don’t have a future as an industry, and to see that here was extremely encouraging.

Yeah. So.

Matt Scott (2): Yeah, I really hope Overland Expo continues that strong training, classroom element, um, because without it, they’re just gonna-

Scott Brady: Yeah …

Matt Scott (2): really rapidly turn into a trade show, and I’ve… I guess on the, on, on the industry side, there’s been a lot of talk about, you know, are they gonna continue doing [00:50:00] it?

And I think it’s really essential.

Scott Brady: I agree. Yeah.

Matt Scott (2): Yeah, I agree.

Scott Brady: Me too. And it’s so positive, and it, I think it maintains the spirit- Mm-hmm … of overlanding. I mean, uh, Clay, you’ve done such a good job of, of recognizing, like, the founding elements of, of overlanding, and you’ve, you’ve always reinforced those ethics, um, which is one of the reason why I believe that your video series is so critical, is that it doesn’t play into the hype too much and it stays very ethical in its undertaking.

Um, and I think that that’s a responsibility that all of us have in this industry, and which is why I’m so excited about, um, this podcast series. I’m so excited about the people who re- remain the leaders in the organization and, and in the industry as a whole, including xOverland. So Clay, I, I’m really grateful for your time today.

Thank you so much, uh, for spending time with us. You bet. Matt, you got any more questions for Clay?

Matt Scott (2): Hmm. I have one more question for you. All right. You didn’t have to take a camera with you, and you’re gonna take Rochelle with you, where would you guys go overlanding? [00:51:00]

Clay Croft: I would go to South America again. I wanna do it all over again.

That’s awesome. There, you know, I- I wanna see it again, not having to produce something Yeah.

Matt Scott (2): And speaking of your badass wife, who’s actually way more inspirational than you are. Oh, thank you. She’s currently doing the Rebelle Rally.

Clay Croft: Yeah.

Matt Scott (2): And as of the first stage, she was, she was in the lead.

Clay Croft: She was in the lead.

I may have heard somebody walking by saying she was in second, so I don’t know where she’s at right now. I

Matt Scott (2): mean, she’s so experienced with this. I mean, she’s been doing the Gazelle Rally in Morocco since she-

Clay Croft: She did three Gazelle Rallies in Morocco.

Matt Scott (2): Yeah

Clay Croft: And then one Rebelle, and then this is her second Rebelle.

Yeah. So this is her fir- fifth rally.

Matt Scott (2): She’s definitely somebody that we need to get on, get on the podcast soon.

Clay Croft: Mm-hmm.

Scott Brady: So, so isn’t it cool that you’re sitting in a white van at a trade show- At a trade show … and your wife, and your wife’s out racing

Clay Croft: Ripping across the Nevada desert somewhere right now How awesome

Scott Brady: is

Clay Croft: that, right?

That’s pretty awesome.

Scott Brady: That is

Clay Croft: pretty awesome. I am so proud of her.

Scott Brady: Yeah, you should be. Yeah. Yeah, she’s a wonderful human being. Well, thank you, Clay. Appreciate it, man. You’re welcome. Thanks again. Of course. And this wraps the Overland Journal podcast. Thank you all [00:52:00] for spending time with us today.