EP323 | Rugged Destinations: A Family’s Journey

Scott Brady

Scott Brady is an adventurer, author, and publisher, and the first person in history to cross all seven continents. Brady is executive publisher of the Overland Collective, home to Overland Journal, the Overland Journal Podcast, and expeditionportal.com—the world’s largest vehicle-dependent adventure community. Scott wrote Overlanding 101 (Simon & Schuster) and is currently riding around the world on his BMW GS. He also led Expeditions 7, the first expedition to drive the same vehicle on all seven continents. Brady’s polar crossings include Antarctica and a south–north crossing of the Greenland ice sheet. Scott is a fellow of the Explorers Club and lives in Prescott, Arizona.

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Transcript

Scott : [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the Overland Journal Podcast. I am your host Scott Brady, and I’m here with Amanda and Patrick from Rugged Destinations. And we are here at the second annual Big Thing at the xOverland Ranch in Montana, and it’s been a super fun couple days. This is the last morning. You guys are probably getting ready to head off to some distant location, which will be awesome.

But thank you for being on the podcast with me today.

Amanda: Absolutely.

Patrick: We’re happy to be here.

Hankook Dynapro Tire: And a special thanks to Hankook Dynapro Tire for supporting this week’s Overland Journal podcast Be sure to visit expeditionportal.com to see our features on the recent Hancook experience at the fourth annual Bronco Stampede in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee.

We took a look at the full line of Dynapro tires and some great Ford Broncos from all over the country as they [00:01:00] gathered at this community event of enthusiasts and top brands. Thanks again, Hankook

Patrick: And man, has it been a fun weekend. Tell me some of your highlights. What did you guys enjoy about the event?

So we got to pre-run the Back 400 and the skills course.

Scott : Okay,

Patrick: nice. On Thursday, we got to help the safety team get their feet under them.

Scott : And that’s- And you used your Canter for that?

Patrick: Yeah … we used our new Canter, which was s- perfect timing- … because it’s a new build to us. And so getting to really stretch its legs and test it out on that very challenging skills course was like-

Scott : That’s a r- that’s a rad truck. It looks like a, a JDM firetruck. B- maybe it’s not, but that’s what it looks like.

Patrick: It is. Yeah. It’s the, actually the second JDM firetruck we’ve brought in from Japan.

Scott : Okay.

Patrick: I’m a huge profit for the JDM imports. They just have so many advantages.

Scott : Yeah, sure.

Patrick: Yeah we’re stoked on them.

Scott : Any one that we’ve ever acquired, which we’ve done a [00:02:00] few. We did a, an LJ-78, awesome truck, and then we brought in a a BJ-74. Yeah … which was, it, and it’s still running around.

A good friend of mine has it, and it’s one of the few trucks that I’ve sold that I wish I could get back. But yeah, the JDM stuff is, they take such good care of their vehicles. They have such strict regulations around it. I think the next one for me is gonna be a right-hand drive Jimny. I’m very excited about that.

Amanda: I happen to love Jimnys.

Yeah. It’s, it’s- It’s a thing … on my list to get.

Scott : It’s a thing. It’s a thing. We happen to know- It’s like a motorcycle with roll-up windows.

Patrick: Yeah … we happen to know where about a dozen Jimnys are. So

If you need a,

Scott : a phone number, let us know. That’s cool. Yeah, there is a, there’s JDM Offroad out of Washington that’s bringing them in.

Amanda: Yes.

Patrick: That’s

Scott : true.

Amanda: Brian

Scott : Cox. Yeah, Brian. Yeah. He’s super knowledgeable- Yes … on that platform. And yeah, I’ve been thinking about it, but then n- new plans, so now we’re riding motorcycles around the world, yeah. So I’ll worry about the Jimny when I get back. Yeah. [00:03:00] Sometime in 2030. Perfect. But so let’s go through a little bit of your history.

Amanda, where did you first find your love for being in the outdoors, traveling, vehicle-based travel? What, what kinda kicked that all off for you?

Amanda: I have a really unique upbringing. Half of my family is Italian- Okay … so I grew up traveling all over the place. My parents are scuba divers, so we would go to really unique places when I was growing up to do those kind of trips.

Everybody else was going to Hawaii or Mexico for their vacations, and it’s “I’m going to Bonaire.” Why am I going to Bonaire? Yeah. Cool. So that’s kinda where that started, and then I remember 12, 13, I was like, “I wanna do this-” … forever. And then at that point remote jobs weren’t a thing.

But that, that stuck with me forever.

Scott : And what do you find for yourself is what keeps drawing you back to it? Like, how is it changing you as a person? What are the things that you’re discovering still after all these years of travel that’s keeping pulling you back towards being on the road?

Amanda: Being on the road is where you [00:04:00] get to find connection- … with the world around you. It’s such a relaxing place. You can get away from all the chaos and stuff. And just the people- … and the places and the cultures- … that just everywhere we go, it’s something new. And so I just … I’m addicted to it.

Scott : Yeah. Nice. And Patrick, what was that pivotal moment that, I don’t know if you’ve had one, but as a traveler that, that moment where you realize “This is part of me, and it needs to be more of my life.” What was that story or that pivotal moment that really drew you to travel?

Patrick: We might get more into this as the podcast goes, ’cause it’s a long story.

Yeah,

Scott : we got time.

Amanda: Okay.

Patrick: So about 10 years ago, Amanda and I started shooting photographs and video of what we saw as just camping. Sure. And- It is pretty much just camping, but

Scott : we have a fancy term for it now.

Patrick: Exactly. And then after a while, we discovered that you could make a living-

Doing this, and that was honestly extremely surprising to me. I [00:05:00] didn’t understand the business side. It didn’t make any sense.

Scott : Sure.

Patrick: And- This company started reaching out to us and saying, “Can we pay you to do this art that you’re making?”

Scott : Yeah.

Patrick: Which seemed so surprising. It was like we can make money-

Doing what we already want to be doing, right? And so we started a business, launched it. We worked for many years to get out of nine-to-fives that we felt-

Scott : Yeah …

Patrick: kind of trapped in

Scott : at the time. And what was your careers at the time?

Patrick: I was an auto mechanic for- Okay … about 20 years.

Scott : It’s a good thing.

That’s a great skill.

Patrick: It’s been a very

Scott : handy skill to have. That’s a great skill.

Patrick: I was master certified with Mercedes-Benz-

Scott : Awesome … with Mazda, and

Patrick: with Ford Motor Company.

Scott : And despite the benefits of overlanding, it’s actually a great career. People don’t realize that you can make a very, a great living.

You can have a set schedule. You can actually leave your job at the end of the day and turn off that switch. So that, that’s … Yeah, what a cool career.

Patrick: I’ve also [00:06:00] found … I’m a huge … I encourage young people to go into the trades- … all the time because the pay is excellent- Yeah … like you said.

It’s a very flexible way to live. Yeah. It’s not like in a law firm-

Scott : Yeah …

Patrick: where everything is very high pace and it’s very hard to take time off.

Scott : Yeah.

Patrick: I actually got to a point in my career where I was able to spend about 90 days field.

Scott : Yeah, sure.

Patrick: Even though I was working a full-time job.

Scott : So

Patrick: it’s one of those that really was the perfect jumping-off point for us.

And then I’ll let Amanda tell you what she’s up to.

Scott : And AI isn’t gonna be swapping out alternators anytime soon, so- Yeah. … you gotta be thinking about that. There’s lo- … The trades are … And they’re also a, a long part of human history. We, for millennia, obv- obviously that’s how we- Earned our livings was with our hands, and there was very few knowledge workers even 100 years ago.

So I think it’s a pretty natural career path for a lot of young people today. So how about you, Amanda? Where’d you come from?

Amanda: I was a paralegal for IP, [00:07:00] for intellectual property. It’s like the most boring kind of-

Scott : Sure …

Amanda: legal work possible, but I’m a details person.

Scott : Yeah, sure. So

Amanda: I loved it.

Scott : And it’s great to have a detail person on a trip ’cause yeah, I would lose my head if it wasn’t firmly attached to my shoulders.

I think that’s why I have no neck is that it would be gone. It would be missing somewhere. But yeah, you gotta have that on a team. Yeah. So you gotta have the person that can keep the house running, literally running down the road, and the person that could be planning the border crossings- Right

and all of the other logistics. It makes for a great team. Yeah, it’s funny where we all come from. Every- I’ve done some 300 of these podcasts, and I’m always surprised what people were doing before they found their way. And then there’s not any real consistency. No. Now there, there is … People do tend to have a creative slant but it doesn’t mean that they came from a creative career field.

They loved photography, but they were working for Mercedes, for example. Yeah, really interesting how that all develops. So what was [00:08:00] the, what was the kickoff series of trips, or was there something that you guys w- big that you guys wanted to do? What really drove you guys to say, “Hey, we’re gonna change our life”?

Patrick: Yeah. The big, the, the big thing that, that led us down this path was driving to the Arctic Ocean.

Scott : Okay, sure.

Patrick: We did that for the first time with our two boys that we travel with.

Scott : Nice.

Patrick: We did that in a … At the time we had a Jeep Gladiator and just a bed rack. Sure. Rooftop tent, simple drawer system.

Scott : Yeah.

Patrick: A s- pretty small refrigerator. Like very humble setup, and we did it very quickly- … because we didn’t have much time off. So we did to Prudhoe and back from Washington State.

Scott : Yeah, that’s a run.

Patrick: In just over, s- 18 days-

Scott : Okay …

Patrick: I think. So it was, like extremely fast paced.

Scott : That is. What did you drive, a WRX or like?

That, that is quite a run.

Patrick: It was a lot. [00:09:00] It was … It taught us to go slow.

It … That was the trip that we learned we really do have to slow down.

We can’t give ourselves that tight of a schedule. And also, it taught us that it’s okay to take time as long as we have it. And at the time we were not full-time living this way. We didn’t have that opportunity, but it really was the spark that lit the flame. We had spent our whole marriage together and the boys growing up for the first couple of years traveling extensively, but never with that amount of logistical burden-

Scott : Yeah

Patrick: never with that amount of distance never with that level of remoteness. And so that really … Those were the determining triad of factors- Yeah … that, that made it w- It felt so … I remember it feeling so big and scary at the time and I was like, do we … Are we…” We … funny side story. We actually [00:10:00] took the Gladiator to a local river in our area.

Okay. And I was like, “We need to test its ability to ford water- “… because we just never know.”

Scott : Yeah, sure.

Patrick: And so we took it through four feet of water- That’s deep … just to test it, and I was like we’re good now.” “We can do it.”

Scott : We didn’t- Hopefully you got some photos for that, of that. Oh, yeah.

Patrick: We did.

We did in the ford water one time- Yeah …

Scott : when we drove to Alaska. Yeah.

Patrick: We never had to. But it really was a defining trip, I think for us as people, for us as a family, and definitely for us as a brand.

Scott : And what made you guys make that d- that leap towards starting to record the videos?

Was people giving you feedback? Were, did you start in social media and then you said, “Hey, we’re gonna start to, to do some videos,” or what was your goal around that?

Amanda: The whole goal behind us starting was to just inspire other families to get out. I was stay-at-home at the beginning, and I love traveling so much, so I refused to stay home.

Our first son, when he was two months old- … I hit the road with him and we did an- Oh, wow … [00:11:00] international trip. We did road trip up into Canada and down, and so many other moms were just like, “How did you do that?” “It’s terrifying.”

So the whole purpose behind it was just to be able to show people if we can do it- we’re a bunch of goofballs, you can do it. It’s not that bad. If it’s just going to a state park, that’s totally fine. But just get outside with your kids. Yeah,

Scott : it seems like kids, they, they just need their mom, their parents, basically. You think about the families that came across the United States in a covered wagon, it was way harder than anything.

We’ve got air conditioning now. Yeah. So yeah, no it’s it’s total- It seems to be totally feasible. I’ve never traveled with kids. I’ve never had kids myself, but I’ve seen a lot of families get out there, and I think it’s so important for our industry to continue to reinforce that it’s totally possible to travel with your family.

Patrick: And we’d like to go a step further and not just say it’s possible, but it’s exceedingly rewarding.

And the reason we travel full time now is so that [00:12:00] it’s really for our boys. So that they can learn durability, resilience faith in the ability to overcome any sort of adversity they may run into.

Scott : Sure.

Patrick: That’s really why we personally, those are our selfish reasons for doing this.

Amanda: It’s difficult to find those challenges ’cause everything is built around comfort these days. So you have to try really hard-

…

Amanda: Just to put them through different kinds of challenges. Yeah.

Scott : Have you guys ever read that book, Comfort Crisis?

Be a good one to listen to while you’re in the truck driving. But that, I think it is a crisis of humanity, is that we’ve got a, we’ve done a lot of work to make life very easy, and human beings start to break when that happens. Yeah. We’re supposed to be challenged, and especially kids. Kids need to be challenged and grow and build self-confidence be in awkward situations.

We need to expose them to as many v- you know, different kinds of people as possible. Otherwise, we become very myopic. That’s how things like [00:13:00] racism develop, is when you realize “Oh, it’s like I’m special because I’m the way that I am.” No, we’re all special in our own way. But you gotta expose kids to that, I think.

Patrick: Yeah. Yeah. Our tur- internal messaging within our family is There is nothing special about us

Scott : Yeah

Patrick: We’re not we’re, like Amanda said, we’re just goofballs. Yeah.

Scott : That’s how we see ourselves. Just- Yeah …

Patrick: just wayward wanderers that are just trying to figure out how to live a life that’s meaningful to us.

And we also encourage the, our boys to always lead with gratitude-

…

Patrick: In any situation, right? And we’ve been in some poor situations where things were not going our way and we’ve had to stop as a family and take stock-

…

Patrick: And realize we have our health.

We still have many resources at our disposal, even if some of them are not running properly at the moment.

Sure, sure. Or if actually, during that Alaska trip, we watched our trailer wheel [00:14:00] fly past us. We had a little mini trailer with a rooftop tent on it- Yeah … so we had a second bedroom, and we watched that on the, in the middle of the Dalton Highway, we watched that trailer tire just go flying off.

Scott : That’s terrifying.

Patrick: Which is tough. It’s but we never once-

Scott : Did the studs break, or did they, the lugs

Patrick: came

Scott : loose?

Patrick: That’s actually the entire axle shaft, the stub- Oh, wow … broke. The hub, bearing- Wow … lug nuts, everything together just flew off.

Scott : Yeah, that’s not easy

Patrick: to fix. Yeah. So we had to replace the axle, which-

Scott : Sure

Patrick: driving to Fairbanks to locate the one last axle that was available- Crazy … after six trailer shops, and then driving another 250 miles back to go get the trailer which- I think could’ve destroyed the, our experience-

…

Patrick: If we had allowed it to.

Scott : Sure.

Patrick: But we led with gratitude the whole time.

It was like we’re complaining or we have this instinct to wanna complain.

We’re in Alaska.

Scott : Yeah.

Patrick: We’re, we’re-

Scott : With your kids, with your family. Sure …

Patrick: we, yeah, we’re together. We have … No one was hurt. Yeah. No [00:15:00] one was harmed. It w- yeah, it’s … It, there’s always some way to find gratitude in a moment.

Even the most, downtrodden moments, it’s still available.

Amanda: And when he says that we stop to reflect we literally stop. Communication is huge- … in our family. We’ve raised the boys to be able to talk about anything and everything- … and just break down feelings or break down situations.

Help explain even just areas that we’re in.

So we stop, and we will verbalize to each other. “We need you guys to come up with something that you’re grateful for right now. Let’s talk about it.”

Scott : Yeah. I think it’s important for travelers when they’re moving together to be, allow ourselves to be vulnerable with each other because we’re all gonna have hard days.

We’re all gonna have days that we’re not feeling good or we didn’t sleep well. And if we encourage each other, and the way that we encourage each other is by modeling that behavior. So being vulnerable with our partner and when our partner tells us that they’re [00:16:00] struggling, allow them that.

Don’t … The hardest thing for me is, of course, I wanna fix the problem, but what Tavia needs in that moment is for me to listen, and I struggle with that. I, I wanna fix- Sure … fix whatever is … But really what she needs in that moment is for me to listen to what she’s experiencing. And then we can work on a plan together to solve the problem.

And the same for me. A lot of times we just wanna be heard that we’re having a hard day.

And so that’s important. That’s a great reminder for those that are listening, is when you’re out there with your family, talk before you leave. Set expectations. D- you’re… And y- you two boys you’re traveling with.

Correct. W- and maybe share their first names, and what’s their, each of their interests. What are they really into? Th- and is it different, or are they into the same stuff?

Patrick: Our oldest, I’ll take our oldest. I’ll let my wife describe our youngest. Our oldest is almost a carbon copy of myself.

Scott : Okay.

Patrick: He is very stubborn but exceedingly resilient. He’s physically [00:17:00] driven, so he likes to build and break and build again.

That’s his idea of a good time.

Scott : Sure.

Patrick: He’s our designated fire maker.

Scott : Okay.

Patrick: That’s his entire job- Okay … usually in camp, is to acquire fuel- … chop wood, and and he’s been doing that since he was about six.

That’s

Scott : cool. So we’ve allowed him to use the ax. And how old is he now?

Patrick: He’s 11 now. Okay. Just turned 11.

Scott : What a cool age.

Patrick: Yeah, and he, his name’s Atticus. So he’s-

Scott : What a cool name.

Patrick: Yeah. He- … he’s named after Atticus Finch.

Amanda: He is.

Scott : Ah, nice.

Patrick: Yeah, one of our, one of my personal favorite characters. So is

Amanda: ours,

Scott : yeah.

Yeah, nice. That’s great. And then how about your youngest?

Amanda: Our youngest is 10. We have them

Scott : back to back. Oh, they’re, they’re- Very close … close in age. Yeah, sure.

Amanda: Yeah. So Grant he is a carbon copy of me.

Scott : Okay.

Amanda: So we’re a little bit more bubbly, probably a little ADD, out there,

Scott : I can relate.

Amanda: He’s super bright.

He’s our bookworm. He loves to learn anything that’s around him. He just loves to do it. Fun facts he will know.

Scott : Okay. Like

Amanda: one, two years.

Scott : [00:18:00] Something needs to be Googled- Yes … He is it. Yeah. Cool.

Amanda: But he just loves being in the outdoors, and he’s very social. He just loves to be around other people, be involved with what’s going on.

So he doesn’t particularly stick to one job. He will just “What do you need help with?”

Scott : Yeah. “What can I do?” Oh, cool. That’s amazing. And so you did this big trip up to Alaska and clearly you guys wanted to make that part of your life. But what was the next big trip for you guys after that?

Patrick: And so the next big trip was Baja, and it was just a few years later.

And the difference in variables were that we had both left our nine-to-five jobs.

Scott : Wow.

Patrick: We were running our business together. It was relatively new to us. We were probably about nine months in to it being our sole income. So we were in a very vulnerable state- Yeah, sure … to put it frankly. Yeah. We were terrified.

We [00:19:00] were … I found myself overworking constantly- … almost to a fault to the point that I would physically break down.

Scott : Yeah.

Patrick: And to be totally honest, we had taken this soft approach. The goal was always, “Let’s go on the road full time.” And we had taken the soft approach of we’ll take local clients, and we’ll, help manage their social media, shoot their photos, shoot their videos.

So we were playing this digital ad agency- … type of role, which was never the goal. The goal was always an art firm.

Scott : Yeah.

Patrick: That was what we wanted. Did … We wanted to be in charge of creative.

Scott : Yeah.

Patrick: That’s it.

Scott : Sure.

Patrick: And we got fired by all of our clients almost in the course of two days.

Scott : Oh, no.

Patrick: And- That’s

Scott : scary …

Patrick: and we found ourselves, … Completely unrelated topic, and we probably don’t even need to touch on it, but we also found ourselves somehow involved in a lawsuit-

…

Patrick: Related to a photo shoot that we had been on. [00:20:00] And that was the first time I ever had a panic attack-

…

Patrick: Honestly. I didn’t even know what it was.

I w- I told Amanda that my palms were sweating, and I couldn’t breathe properly. And I remember just going out of our office, and I got into the car and just drove-

…

Patrick: Aimlessly. I just drove, and it took me 30 minutes to realize I had been in the car. And I was just driving aimlessly and had

And I was so terrified because I felt responsible. I felt like I was … I had talked my wife into this thing, this dream- … and then blew it.

That’s what it felt like at the moment. And it took us about three days after that before we took stock, right? We were able to stop and take stock.

What are, what do we have available? I’m not the numbers guy. I don’t do that. I’m the dreamer. Yeah. I’m the big picture guy- Sure … in our relationship. And frankly, I didn’t know how much money we had, and we had a little bit more than I thought we did.

Scott : Yeah.

Patrick: And I told Amanda, I said, “With that amount of money, I think we should [00:21:00] just go to Baja and commit to what the real dream was from the start.”

And it either works or we come home with our tails tucked.

And I really don’t think … Looking back now, I don’t think it would’ve worked any other way. I don’t think unless my back was against the wall or our backs were against the wall and we had no other options, did that … It effectively burned the boats.

I’m sure you know that phrase.

Scott : Provides a lot of clarity, doesn’t it?

Patrick: It effectively burned the boats for us. Yeah. Yeah. We didn’t have to light the flame. It just did it. It, … And, So we made our way to Baja, and we had absolutely zero idea what we were doing and We met all these wonderful people many of them locals who were so incredibly kind.

They… We were there for Christmas, so they we got to go to abuela’s house for Christmas dinner.

Scott : Yeah, amazing …

Patrick: this family came up to us on the beach and was like, “We know you don’t have [00:22:00] family here, so would you like to come to abuela’s house for Christmas dinner?” And they fed us a seven-course meal, this most gorgeous thing.

Scott : Incredible …

Patrick: it was just, it was a life-cha- that was the trip that was life-changing. It’s partially because the conditions and variables of being in this extremely vulnerable state- … when we left. I was a broken person-

Scott : Yeah …

Patrick: as we were making our way down there. I was thinking, “We’re probably done.”

This pr- this little idea that I had, this dream, is fizzling out, and I’m- … gonna have to watch it fizzle over the next three to four months, and then I’m gonna have to go back, and I’ll be working in a shop again- Yeah … and I won’t see my kids but a couple hours a day.

Amanda: I, on the other hand, was optimistic the whole way there.

Which was, like, a reverse in roles for us, ’cause when he said, like, all of his symptoms that he was feeling, I was like, “Oh, no, I- Yeah … I’m familiar with panic attacks. Those are a close friend,” and I was like, “Welcome.” “You’ve made it.”

Scott : You are human, after all.

Amanda: It was literally about a week before [00:23:00] our clients, local clients, had let us go, and I just felt this kind of divine intervention, and I called him while I was driving, and I was like, “I don’t know how to explain it, but I feel like I just have this message.

We’re headed in the right direction. Whatever it is that we’re doing right now- … this is the path that we’re supposed to be

Scott : on.”

Amanda: So when all of that stuff happened and he was having a meltdown, I was like, “Nope, the universe told me that we’re good to go, so we’re fine.”

“

Amanda: I’m cool as a cucumber.”

So the whole way down and stuff, I’m like, “No, it’s gonna work. I know it’s gonna work,” so-

Scott : It’s kinda neat how that can work in partnerships where, you hope that two people aren’t having an anxiety attack at the exact same moment, but it doesn’t seem to be that way. Yeah. It seems to be that one or the other realizes that they need to be in a supportive role- Yeah

and they’re not allowed to break down, and that’s … And clearly humans have figured that out through the millennia of you can’t have the whole village, losing their mind all in one, one shot. There, you, some people gotta step up and fight the bear or [00:24:00] whatever. But yeah, so you were fighting the bear in that moment, which is cool.

Patrick: Yeah. Yeah. And we have found it to be true that it is exceedingly rare that both of us w- melt down at the same time.

Scott : Sure.

Patrick: And really, a, a key probably of that trip as well, but just a key of our marriage and our business together and everything, is finding- those accompanying skill sets.

Right?

Understanding, hey, this is an area that I’m not good at. Can this be your job? Can this be your part?

Scott : Sure.

Patrick: Right? And I absolutely needed it in the moment. I was in a place, I was in an extremely… I’m not a I’m not an incredibly emotional person. I’m not, I don’t I know my therapists have always called me emotionally illiterate.

I don’t even really know what I’m feeling- … when I’m feeling it a lot. And so for me, it was terrifying- … because for one of the first times in my life, I was truly feeling, like, raw, real, visceral emotion.

[00:25:00] And that was so challenging, especially when it felt like there was so much on the line.

Scott : How did it feel after you went through that? Do you feel like you were able to recalibrate a little bit?

Patrick: So yes, I was. Short answer. Long answer, we had the most poetic, the most beautiful, the most satisfying, the most everything three months of our lives.

Scott : Wow.

Patrick: I feel like we rediscovered ourselves as people.

I feel like we rediscovered ourselves and rewrote our story as a family.

And it ended up being the pivotal moment, I think, in my life.

It turned into probably the most important period of time. There was more growth for me personally and for us as a family as a whole in that period of time than I think we’ve ever had.

It was just a, it was just a fast track to this is how you do business, this is how you communicate properly, this is how all of the thi- any skill that [00:26:00] we might need.

Scott : You guys leveled up.

Patrick: Exactly. Extremely fast. We were- Cool … ’cause we had no options. We were out of options, and so it, the, the vigor with which we would attack something-

Was, like, endless.

Scott : Yeah.

Patrick: It was, there was an endless gas tank-

…

Patrick: For attack at that point in time. There was desperation is such a valuable valuable asset sometimes. Yeah.

Scott : It absolutely, it can spark a lot of change, give us a lot of mo- focus and motivation. You guys have been through a lot together, traveled together, running a business together.

What are you most proud of Amanda for?

Patrick: Amanda is… And many people don’t know this, so hopefully this message can find its way to the masses, but Amanda is almost- About

Scott : 50,000 people, so it’s a good start …

Patrick: perfect. Amanda is almost entirely responsible for the creative side of our business- Ah … especially [00:27:00] post-production, copywriting social media management, all of it, email campaigns- all of that. I handle most of our business side, and we both shoot photo and video simultaneously. But other than that specific task of just production- The pre-production, post-production, distribution, all of that is divvied up between the two of us. And I would say the thing that I am most proud of Amanda for is her seemingly endless ability to be creative.

To find a new way to say something that’s been said many times. To find a new way to edit together clips that evoke emotion out of people in a way that I would’ve never … And I frankly, for someone who runs a business on social media, I actually don’t spend all that much time on social media. And I will go on every once in a while because a client will need specs or something f- off of our, [00:28:00] social, and I’ll scroll through and she’ll find me crying in the seat of the car-

’cause I’m, like, watching these beautiful things that she’s made- … that I’m not even aware of.

‘Cause there’s this whole distribution process that happens without me involved.

Scott : Yeah, sure.

Patrick: And I j- I get to discover her art just like any other consumer.

Scott : Yeah, sure. And it is art. And it’s an important form of expression for travelers.

It inspires others to get out and see the world. And then it also gives us that expression of our own experience. We don’t wanna hold that in, we wanna find a way to be able to express those things. And same question for you, Amanda, what are you most proud of Patrick for?

Amanda: Oh, so many things. But Patrick’s our rock in every way.

He’s so patient and compassionate and so driven, and that example for our boys they’re … Every day-

Scott : Yeah …

Amanda: I look at the way that he interacts with our boys, and I couldn’t be more [00:29:00] excited and more proud of the fact that I found him and he’s-

Scott : Yeah …

Amanda: he’s my life partner- Yeah … in life, and I get him for the rest of our lives.

Scott : Yeah.

Amanda: I can’t believe it. Times where I just wanna pinch myself. But yeah, I think that, and then obviously the business side, just him being able to step up and then- Work together with me and just make this dream come true

Scott : And to grow as a family in that way, it’s so rare. Like to your point earlier, someone who works a full-time job, you’re lucky to spend two or three hours a night with your kids

Amanda: Yeah

Scott : And you guys get to spend huge chunks of time and see them overcome challenges, see them have their first steps literally and figuratively where they’re having these aha moments as a young person of “Yeah, I just did this thing,” or whatever.

Patrick: Yeah.

Amanda: It’s crazy that even with us traveling full time, we spend all of our time together

It still doesn’t [00:30:00] feel like enough

It still feels like I just wish we could have even more somehow

Scott : I know I don’t know And think about how many families, they just don’t get that. They get hours a day if they’re lucky.

And a lot of times, the kids are on their devices for those hours or the parents are And they really don’t, they’re not starting fires together. They’re not, digging the truck out ’cause it’s stuck or whatever. Like those are pretty defining experiences I would think as a family.

Patrick: Definitely. We personally, we get a lot of interaction with our community who will reach out directly and say, “Hey, I’m dealing with this problem,” or, “I have this…” Like my, one of the big ones is my kids don’t enjoy it or my wife doesn’t wanna go

That’s what we hear a lot.

Scott : Yeah

Patrick: I get a lot of Amanda gets a lot of messages of “Bro, you’re lucky your wife likes to go.”

Scott : Yeah

Patrick: But I know that we extend a lot of grace to modern parents

[00:31:00] Because the cards are so stacked against you, right? There’s this world like we discussed earlier that’s totally trending toward comfort and distraction Which can be incredibly hard to overcome.

Your kids, they go to school because you have to go to work.

They get exposure to all kinds of things that even if at home you’re super prudent about screen time and, understanding biology of your brain and how it’s affected by interacting with digital devices, your kids go to school and they, you don’t know. They’re there for eight hours, nine hours a day.

Scott : And,

Patrick: And I also understand that it’s both a problem of resources and agency- … for modern parents. It’s, they don’t have the resources a lot of times, so it’s we have to go to work.” Yeah. We have to go do this job-” Sure … to be able to keep the things that we honestly were told by culture that we have to [00:32:00] buy, and then once we have more things, we have to go do more work to keep paying for those things.

And all the while, kids can end up in kind of the ether- Yeah … where they-

Scott : In the algorithm.

Patrick: Yeah, and they feel like Mom and Dad aren’t around and when they are around, they don’t really seem like they wanna talk, because I’m guilty of it as well. Dad gets home from a long day of hard work, and I’m tired.

I gave everything I had to that.

And so probably when the boys were, like, tiny, I used to do this thing where I would sit in our driveway, still living in the stick house and stationary and just in that whole thing. We call it being in the matrix internally. And I would stop in the driveway, close my eyes, breathe deeply, and be like, “I have to find the best version of myself to walk into the house.”

Yeah. “I can’t give the best version of me to my job-“

…

Patrick: That when it’s all said and done isn’t gonna matter at all.

These people are the ones that matter [00:33:00] to me, right?

Scott : I can say that’s very rare. And obviously another thing to be proud of your husband for, ’cause that, to put your kids first You know, that’s pretty amazing.

Put your family first. It’s just so

Amanda: much intention. Every single day- … has to be led with intention, and it is exhausting.

Scott : Yeah.

Amanda: There are days where it would just be easy let’s just throw the TV on.

Scott : But- but it’s- Or hand them the iPad or whatever. Yeah. Yeah.

Amanda: It’s just a missed opportunity. It’s future regret.

And trying to look at it from that perspective in the moment-

…

Amanda: Will probably fuel a little bit of motivation for taking things on with more intention.

Scott : Yeah, you make things a little easier today, but then it’s gonna be a much harder tomorrow. Whereas if we have a harder today, easier tomorrow.

Yeah. How do you guys with your kids traveling with you, how do you guys set up their education? Do you guys have a preference around that? What do you guys like to do to keep your kids engaged?

Amanda: We’ve been passionate about homeschool from the start. Prior to us even discovering photography and stuff we just know that the school [00:34:00] system it’s challenging, right?

People will literally move to different states or different cities to be able- Okay … to get into the right district- … to be able to get good schooling. I was super excited. I remember when I told him “I, I think I can do this. I think I can do this.” We lucked out ’cause our boys are super bright.

They’re super smart. Absolutely skipped a generation. They’re way smarter

Scott : than we are.

Amanda: But I just started piecing stuff together. It was pre-COVID, so it wasn’t as easy to find material, but they were also super young. Yeah. We’re talking preschool stuff. Sure. So it wasn’t that difficult. And I just made it fun.

Then COVID hit, but I felt like, “I’m prepared. I’m already in this.” And then since then, one of the positives that I see came from COVID is that all sorts of material is available now.

There’s so much available for all sorts of different learning styles. So I cherry pick. I pick all sorts of different things.

Different-

Scott : What is it? Curriculum …

Amanda: curriculum, yeah, essentially. Yeah. So for all the different subjects and stuff. [00:35:00] But we also, with traveling, we have exposure to so much- … that half of their education is just what they’re learning on the road from-

Scott : Yeah …

Amanda: different cultures.

Scott : Languages.

Amanda: Learning new languages.

Yeah. They- they’ve made friends that they can’t speak to each other. They’re- … figuring out all sorts of hand motions

Scott : and stuff. How cool is that? Yeah, you’re not just showing them the Sea of Cortez on a map. You’re, like- Yeah … they’re there on the beach- Yeah … swimming with the whale shark. Yeah, what

Amanda: kind of fish did Dad catch?

Yeah. Let’s go figure it out.

Scott : Yeah, cool.

Amanda: Let’s figure out more about it.

Scott : Wow, what an amazing experience.

Hankook Dynapro Tire: And a special thanks to Hankook Tire for supporting this week’s podcast. What’s it like when over 20,000 Jeeps and more than 50,000 people get together in Pigeon

Forge, Tennessee? We joined Hankook Dynapro Tire to capture the awesome energy of the 2026

14th Annual Jeep Invasion.

Keep an eye on expeditionportal.com for our upcoming

event recap, and get inspired. Thanks [00:36:00] again, Hankook.

Scott : What other advice would you give to parents that are hoping to travel with their kids or just starting to travel with their kids? What other advice would you give to parents?

Patrick: I don’t know that there’s any cheat codes or tips and tricks to this one.

I would say, in general, there are some overarching themes that matter a lot. We already touched heavily on communication. I think that, that is the one that we will always come back to with anyone seeking input, is no matter what the conditions are, just keep communication. And if you have to build systems that require communication, like every morning we’re gonna have, cereal hour where we discuss what we’re doing as a family-

Scott : Cool

Patrick: Having the ability… ‘Cause we will literally have “It’s time. We need a timeout.”

Scott : “We

Patrick: need to stop everything. No, zero distractions. Pull over on the side of the road. We’re all gonna get out of the car. We’re gonna take a walk down whatever trail we can find, and let’s just discuss the state of the union.”

Scott : Ah.

Patrick: Like, [00:37:00] where are we at? How’s everybody feeling? Did anybody not sleep well? Is everybody hydrating? Are we not eating enough calories? Are we- Sure … ’cause it’s really- The basics that get you has been my experience. Yeah, that makes sense. It’s not the complex things. It’s, the complex things are the issues that we almost create.

It’s the basics. It’s I haven’t slept, I’m not eating enough calories, and I’m not drinking enough water.

Scott : What are the fundamentals?

Patrick: Yeah. And if you do all three of those, you can keep the line of communication open and keep it, more functional.

Amanda: And I would say to just take it slow.

I know that especially with the mentality of 9:00 to 5:00 like we’re always in a rush to get to the next thing. Slow it down. Look at things from a child’s perspective. They are sponges and take stuff in. You’ll be amazed at what they’ll just stop and look at something- … or the things that they notice.

It’s incredible. So try to go at a slow pace. Set realistic expectations. It’s easy to want to cram in a ton of stuff into [00:38:00] something, but it can be overwhelming, and then things inevitably go wrong. Yeah. And that can destroy somebody mentally when I didn’t check all the boxes.”

Those were possibilities.

Just you’re gonna have some more to come back to at a future date.

Scott : Yeah, that’s great advice. Some questions to work through with you guys that’ll be fun to ask is what, what do you guys, what did you find was your most intense moment in your travels? The thing that was, like, that just…

it sounds like you shared some of that around losing all those clients all at one time, but did you have a really an aha or a, a really intense moment in your travels that you could share with the audience? A great story.

Patrick: Definitely. I would say the most intense moment was on that same trip.

It wasn’t, we weren’t quite into Mexico. We were in Southern California in the middle of a remote desert area there. And we were asleep. It was probably about 10:30 at night and we had been asleep for an hour or so, [00:39:00] and we woke up. I woke up, we all did, to gunshots-

…

Patrick: Going off. And I’ve spent just enough…

I wasn’t in the military or law enforcement or anything, but I spent just enough time around guns to know what a gun sounds like when it is pointed toward you as opposed to pointed away from you.

Scott : Sure.

Patrick: And then we started hearing ricochets going past the truck. And Amanda was obviously terrified.

I was terrified, and all we could do was roll over and cover the boys ’cause we’re in a rooftop tent.

Scott : Yeah, sure.

Patrick: We have zero ballistic protection of any kind. Yeah. And I do believe it was gross negligence on the people’s part. I don’t think they had any intention of harming anyone. I think that they just, possibly intoxicated definitely not thinking clearly, and were driving through the desert shooting guns from their truck.

Yeah. And it, the second they kinda noticed us, it seemed like they went like, “Oh, crap, we might have hurt somebody.” Yeah. And so they stopped shooting and took [00:40:00] off very quickly.

But that was one of those it’s essentially impossible to get to sleep-

Scott : Yeah …

Patrick: after that, so we slept maybe a handful of hours to- tops that whole night.

And the next day, that was when Amanda and I had to go take a timeout.

Scott : Yeah.

Patrick: Whoa.

Scott : Yeah. Boys. What

Amanda: are we doing?

Patrick: Yeah.

Scott : Yeah. What are we- Get into Mexico quickly. It’ll be much safer.

Patrick: Apparently, yeah. We share that story often- Yeah … to let people know that, like Mexico for us was sanctuary

Scott : Totally

Patrick: I mean- Yeah, totally

the, the people were kind. It felt safe. It was safe. We never got sick. Nothing, like really nothing bad, and everything good happened there

Scott : Especially traveling as a family. Definitely … the Mexican culture is all about family Yes So for, you guys come up to a military checkpoint, you’re there with your kids.

Yeah they’re gonna … It’s gonna be a totally different experience than me rocking up solo on a motorcycle. Yes, sir. They’re gonna- Yes, sir … they’re gonna give me all kinds of grief. Yeah, totally. [00:41:00] Yeah, that sounds like a really intense moment. I’m glad everybody was okay. That would be scary.

Patrick: Yeah.

It is ironic that the only place we’ve ever been shot at … is in

Scott : the US. Also not ironic, right? Yeah. Okay. And one of the things we love to ask about is how do you guys give back to the overland community? How do you give back to the cultures that you visit? What are some organizations that you guys like to donate to?

What are some ways that you guys give back in your travels? You wanna start that one?

Amanda: Sure, yeah. So we’ve been involved with a few, like veteran organizations- Nice … and being able to donate our time to be able to go and be the photo team for being able to do trips and stuff, which is, honestly, I think it’s more rewarding for us at the end of the day.

Scott : Sure.

Amanda: It’s still not contributing enough. But that’s been fantastic to do that. This year we made the decision to be the [00:42:00] title sponsor for the Northwest Overland Rally.

Scott : Nice. I love that.

Amanda: It’s really no kickback for us. We’re not selling products- Yeah … or anything, but for us, like this community is everything.

They’re family. So for us, it was a way for being able to give back, rally some of the companies that- … we work with to help with giveaways, and then-

Scott : Cool …

Amanda: obviously help Owen and Jenny out.

Scott : Yeah. They’re good friends. They’re just getting s- they’re just getting- Yeah … started with that event- Yeah

which is exciting. Yeah, it’s crazy to think. We started that event in 2009, and it’s go- still going. Yeah. It’s changed hands a few times, but- Yeah … yeah, that’s great. How exciting is that? For each of you, a question. How do you feel, like travel has changed you the most personally? Like in your

If you look at your life how has it changed you?

Patrick: Wow. For me, that’s an easy contrast, ’cause I’m a city kid. I grew up in Seattle.

Scott : Okay.

Patrick: I was very metropolitan. I always thought I would live in the city. I always thought I would buy a house in [00:43:00] the city. I didn’t know how much houses in the city were gonna

Scott : cost.

Sure.

Patrick: But and then after meeting Amanda, she was really the world traveler. She was the one who had been all the places, and she convinced me that this thing was worth doing. So for me, it’s very vivid. If you look at who I was as a child, I was like a punk rock, skate parks- Sure … going to live shows on Capitol Hill, and then now here I am.

I can’t remember the last time I wore shoes. I’m an artist for

Scott : a living. I love it.

Patrick: Like the, this … It’s so contrast to what I see as, like part one of my journey, and part two now, that we’re luckily still at the beginning of.

Scott : Oh, fortunately, books are meant to be a lot of chapters, so we’re supposed to do different things.

Yeah. So yeah. And how about for you, Amanda?

Amanda: I honestly think the mental health journey for me. It’s been great. I think I, I had an interesting upbringing and [00:44:00] stuff, and then I just don’t do well in super organized stuff, even though I was a paralegal, right? That’s very detail-oriented. But I found out that’s really not good for me. I am an artist. I am creative. And I do need to feel connection, and that’s what travel gives me.

I get to connect with the world. I get to see how the world is connected. It’s really easy to get lost with the news saying that everything is scary and everybody is bad.

Scott : Yeah.

Amanda: So it’s… I just get such clarity-

…

Amanda: When I’m on the road.

Scott : Oh, that’s interesting. So you found that you’ve been able to have artistic expression that you didn’t have before, and then it sounds like clarity, which that’s… What a cool outcome.

Amanda: Yeah.

Scott : I think that’s what we’re all looking for is a little bit of clarity in life.

Sure. Which is cool. If you guys could own any… Now, this has to be a new vehicle. If you could own any overland vehicle in the world, no, no limit to your budget, what would you guys want? Each one of you

Patrick: This is gonna be a different answer

Scott : from each of us I mean, I know Jimny for

Patrick: me I guarantee you, but I’ll let

Scott : him- [00:45:00] Brand new Jimny

Patrick: I’ll let him in though

Scott : I,

Amanda: yeah I’m sold on the Jimny, but I also-

have always wanted a G-Wagon, but I want it to be an older G-Wagon. That’s, I’ve had that dream since before meeting him.

Scott : Yeah.

Amanda: So that’s gonna happen. It’s going to.

Scott : You should do that. They’re great. Yeah, that was one of my favorite cars. Had a old school G-Wagon for 12 years. Loved it,

Patrick: I luckily was a Mercedes mechanic- Yeah

so I have some strong opinions on what year and model range we will get. But I’m sure we will achieve-

Scott : Oh, those cars are so good

Patrick: They’re so capable.

Scott : They’re so good.

Patrick: So capable. I think for me, a dream vehicle would be I’ve been picturing a Volvo C303 for- Yeah … years, where the whole top goes up.

The whole roof, and has the ability to turn into effectively a miniature apartment.

Scott : Yeah.

Patrick: There’s a bunch of barriers to overcome with the Volvo stuff. They have a bunch of intricacy that’s annoying and impractical- … for stateside use, [00:46:00] but with enough time and effort, anything is can be overcome.

Scott : Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Oh, those are fun choices for sure.

What would be yeah, I don’t know if either of you are big readers, but is, are there books that you guys have… You made some reference to some characters in some books. Are there books that you guys each like some that you could recommend to the listeners?

Amanda: Oh gosh, there are a ton of books that we like, and actually that, that would be a recommendation that we give all the time for families.

Our, our family listens to audiobooks- … in the car. We’re not listening to music. And we like to pick stuff that is based around the areas that we travel to. Smart. It helps the boys stay invested, so when we get to that location, they’re like, “Oh, I heard about that in a book.” Yeah. Yeah, To Kill a Mockingbird is one that we’ve read many times,

Scott : obviously.

What an incredible book.

Amanda: It’s a favorite.

Scott : And unfortunately, people read that b- book when they’re in high school or whatever. It’s an assignment and they have to get it done. I would really encourage people to come back to that book as an adult because it’s [00:47:00] incredible writing. The prose in that is just over the top.

Patrick: It’s extremely impactful. It was to my upbringing, and so much so that obviously we named our first son that.

Scott : Yeah, sure.

Patrick: I would say… i’ll do a contemporary one, like a recent one. I think that because Project Hail Mary is- … po- in the-

Scott : Yeah …

Patrick: in the main stage right now, if anyone has seen the movie-

Please go read the book. It is seven times better than the movie.

Scott : Yeah, my nephew told me that. He read the book, and then we went and saw the movie together, and he’s “Scotty, the book is so much better.”

Patrick: Yeah. It’s one of those where the book is so fascinating-

…

Patrick: And you get to learn about advanced physics- which, like Amanda touched on, I never did well in school, so I never got to touch on those subjects- … in school for myself. So it’s really fun, it’s super entertaining, and it’s very family appropriate-

…

Patrick: Where kids can learn and come up with cool ideas while they’re listening.

Scott : I need to do a better job of reading [00:48:00] more fiction.

I’ve probably read five fiction books in my entire life other than assignments when I was in high school. But yeah, I should… I did read the Dune series, and that was really great,

Patrick: very good.

Scott : Yeah, another good one. So how do people find out more about what you guys are doing? Tell us about your YouTube channel, your Instagram.

How do people connect with you and follow your journey?

Patrick: We are at Rugged Destinations essentially on everything.

And our YouTube is very dedicated to just updating people on either the- our latest large trip. I will typically make a full-length feature film out of our larger trips when I feel like there’s some story to tell.

Or I utilize YouTube to update people with our equipment- … and our build. Yeah, sure.

Scott : So

Patrick: we’ll usually take time out and pause and say, “Here’s the second phase of the Mitsubishi Canter we’re building right now.” Give people an [00:49:00] update before we know new big updates are coming. And then all of the other social media platforms, we are launching, somewhere between two and five pieces of content every day.

Scott : Wow, that’s a lot.

Patrick: On all of them. And so those are gonna give you much more just general insight into kind of our psyche and what we’re thinking and feeling.

Scott : And,

Patrick: We really try to focus on making our social impact on the world, the digital footprint very positive because we feel like with all of the negative that we receive- the only way that we have seen to overcome that is just more good.

Scott : Yeah.

Patrick: So really

Scott : it’s- Yeah, don’t read the comments. You’re supposed to read the comments, but don’t read the comments,

Patrick: right? Yeah. Yeah. Just, yeah. We’ve- luckily we’ve gotten okay at reading the comments- … and not taking offense,

Scott : but- Yeah

Patrick: And it’s… We find YouTube’s the only place we get negative comments- Yeah … ’cause we’re speaking more we’re speaking more directly about [00:50:00] choices that we’ve made-

Scott : Yeah, sure …

Patrick: technically

Scott : and- Yeah. Those- Someone always- … kinds of comments are fine …

Patrick: yeah, someone always has an opinion- Yeah

about that you chose the wrong

Scott : car or the wrong gym or whatever. Yeah, the wrong tires or whatever. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, no, that’s interesting. What is the next big thing for you guys? Where, what’s your next big trip? What were you guys building this Canter to go do?

Amanda: Yeah, we’re gonna get the Canter finished up, and then we’re gonna go back down to Baja for another three months.

Scott : Awesome. Yeah. We did- This winter, you think? This winter, yeah. Yeah, perfect timing. Yeah. Yeah, that’d be great for that.

Patrick: That’s gonna be our shakedown for what is actually our next big thing, which will unfortunately probably be after the next EXO Range big thing. But that’s okay. We’ll ride it next year.

Yeah. Saved it this year.

Scott : Yeah, there you go.

Patrick: Which is the, the Canter’s being built to ship to South America.

Scott : Amazing.

Patrick: So South America is our next. Unfortunately, we’re right-hand drive. So we can’t drive through Central America. Yep. We plan to ship directly to Colombia.

Scott : That’s wise anyways.

Patrick: And then we’ll-

Scott : South America’s awesome.

Patrick: Yeah, and then [00:51:00] we’ll spend, probably a couple of years just making our way across South America and see what happens. And then we actually heard from friends recently that it’s cheaper to ship somewhere else from South America than back to the US. So we may just ship to Europe or-

Scott : Africa or whatever

somewhere in Africa …

Patrick: africa. Yeah. Yeah. It’s … i’m prudent with money these days. So a cheaper price on shipping, I’ll take

Scott : it. That’s great. Thank you both so much for being on the podcast. Thanks for being at the Big Thing. Thanks for all that you do and your family does to encourage people and families to get out and travel and see the world, and really appreciate you being on the podcast with me this morning.

Patrick: Absolutely. Right back at you. Thanks to the whole EXO team, Overland Journal team. We really, the collective- Yeah … we appreciate you guys encouraging a community of people like us to go live wild lives that-

Scott : Yeah. We’re honored …

Patrick: don’t make sense

Scott : sometimes. It rarely makes sense. Yeah, we’re honored to do it, and we thank you all [00:52:00] for listening, and we’ll talk to you next time.