Jim Oostdyk on the Adventure of Business, Family, and History

Guest Bio:

Jim Oostdyk

Jim founded OK4WD in 1979 after rebuilding his own rolled Jeep right out of high school. What started as working on friends’ 4x4s quickly grew into one of the country’s most respected off-road shops. Long before “overlanding” became mainstream, Jim was building vehicles around customers’ lifestyles and traveling the world to source innovative expedition products from South Africa, Europe, and more. Now in its 47th year, OK4WD continues to lead the industry through innovation, experience, and a passion for adventure.

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Host Bios:

Scott Brady

Scott is the executive publisher and co-founder of Expedition Portal and Overland Journal and is often credited with popularizing overlanding in North America. His travels by 4WD and adventure motorcycle span all seven continents and include three circumnavigations of the globe. His polar expeditions include two vehicle crossings of Antarctica and the first long-axis crossing of Greenland. @scott.a.brady

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Transcription:

Scott Brady: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Overland Journal podcast. I am your host, Scott Brady, and I am here with Jim Oostdyk. Now, Jim has been a good friend of mine for a very long time, and he is the founder, chairman, president. He runs OK4WD, but he’s not just operated in that capacity within our industry. He’s a big champion of Tread Lightly and those other, uh, organizations that really help keep our trails open, and he’s done so much to bring in new products, uh, into our country from overseas, from Africa, et cetera.

I mean, you’ve even got a great story that we’ll go into. I mean, he actually operated the first Air Locker in the United States. So Jim’s been around 40 years now, right? 47. Well, so thank you so much for- Yeah … being on the podcast. Yeah. Thanks for having me, Scott.

Yeah, so 47 years is a long time. But I think one of the things that I’ve really enjoyed our time together for the last week where we’ve…

we just spent [00:01:00] hours in the car catching up on each other’s lives. And your story of getting started is so inspirational, and I think it’s a story that everybody needs to hear about how important it is, uh, to pursue not only your dreams, but something that you’re good at, something that you, you really feel a passion behind.

So let’s, let’s go back in the time machine to how you ended up starting your business and that very cool little gas station- Mm … uh, that started OK4WD. But you and I drove by it the other day, but let’s go back to where that story started.

Jim Oostdyk: Yeah. Uh, 1979, June got out of high school with absolutely no direction.

Just knew I liked cars and, uh, and I, and I was really into the outdoors, so I went backpacking for two weeks to try to figure out what I was gonna do. And came back and, uh, told my father, uh, that I’m probably gonna join the military. My father was in the [00:02:00] military. He wasn’t too fond of it and said- Sure

he didn’t want me to go. So, um, I said, “Well, I don’t know what else to do.” He said, “Hey, uh, there’s this little two-bay garage for rent, 300 bucks a month. You’ve been working all through high school. You have some money.” He said, “Start your own business.” Um, I, my father was an entrepreneur, uh, sold his business when I was six- and then mentored people to start gas stations for an oil company. So he was very instrumental helping me, helping my brother, uh, who was very much like me- Mm … you know, get started. Um, I opened this two-bay garage and trying to find my way what to do there too. Yeah. Selling some gas, which I hated pumping gas.

You know, you’re going out in the rain.

Scott Brady: Yeah,

Jim Oostdyk: sure. Some- somebody’s there, and they hand you $5 worth of gas in the pouring rain. Yeah. And it’s like, “I can’t do this all my life.”

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Jim Oostdyk: So I was trying to find my way, [00:03:00] and, um, I had a Mustang. A couple months into business, I realized I had no more cash. And my father said, “Get rid of your car.”

I’m like, “No, I’m not getting rid of my car.” He said, “Do you wanna be in business or do you want a fast car? What do you want?” So had too many speeding tickets, too, so sold the car, bought a Jeep, and that’s where the four-wheel drive thing came about.

Scott Brady: There’s a, there’s a great photograph in your new shop, which we’ll talk about a little bit later.

But it shows that original garage, and it shows- … that beautiful white Mustang parked next to it. And I’m sure that that was very difficult. I mean, that’s the reality of being an entrepreneur. It’s the reality of, of really going after something that you want to achieve, is you gotta sacrifice other things in order to be able to achieve that.

So I’m sure that that was a tough moment.

Jim Oostdyk: Oh, terrible. I basically cried-

Scott Brady: Yeah …

Jim Oostdyk: when that car went, went out [00:04:00] of the parking lot. Yeah. You know, it was like, I, I bought that car when I was 14, I think.

Scott Brady: Mm.

Jim Oostdyk: It was my sister’s and my brother’s, and then we were gonna sell it ’cause it was, it had rust and stuff.

Sure. And my dad gave me a deal on it, but I had to fix it, and, uh, learned how to braze quarter panels in the car with some neighbors, and, uh, a neighbor friend painted it for us. And, um, yeah it, Mustang convertible.

Scott Brady: So cool, man.

Jim Oostdyk: You know? What 17-year-old boy-

Scott Brady: Yeah. …

Jim Oostdyk: you know, wouldn’t want that?

Scott Brady: Life was good.

Jim Oostdyk: Yeah.

Scott Brady: Life was good.

Jim Oostdyk: White tires.

Scott Brady: Well, you ended up with another convertible, you know, and you bought a Jeep. And then you stopped getting speeding tickets, but you told me the story about, you know, coming around that corner- and, you know, nearly, you know, ended the story right there.

What happened with the Jeep? Yeah, so that Jeep, I had to, uh, I, because I was 18, the oil company wouldn’t take my check, made me certify it. So I, I used the guy that delivered the [00:05:00] gas would watch the gas pumps in the business, and I’d get in my Jeep and zip up to the bank and cash or get the check certified.

Jim Oostdyk: So I’m flying up to the bank with this little four-cylinder Jeep with eight and three-quarter-inch drum brakes- Right … all the way around, and the guy in front of me stopped short, and it was, hit a car head-on, hit him, or tried to throw it into a parking lot. So he threw it sideways into a parking lot, and still remember the pothole.

As soon as I hit that pothole, rolled it. Should have died, but no, no seat belts were even in the Jeep. The passenger seat was, like, you could flip ’em and pull ’em right out. Sure. So all the stuff is bouncing around, you know, as, as I rolled, and, uh, m- cut my arm up, cut my head up. Ambulance comes.

Ambulance still went to the bank- … certified the check, took it back to the gas station for us, and then took me to the hospital. Proceeded to take

Scott Brady: you to [00:06:00] the hospital.

Jim Oostdyk: Yeah. It was crazy.

Scott Brady: I, that’s an incredible story. And, and we were dri- I mean, we spent so much time, you know, driving these back roads and through these little towns where I was able to see that original gas station, and I was able to see that corner, you know, where you rolled the Jeep.

And, you know, you showed me, like, where you ended up- Yeah … right against this embankment- Yeah … and everything like that. I mean, it’s, you know, sometimes in life it’s those crazy turn of events that- You think that life is over, that, you know, “This is gonna be the end of my business,” or- Totally.

Yeah … gonna be in… You’re g- you to- Yeah … close to totaled the Jeep. Uh, but it was because of that accident that you actually decided to start to work on the Jeep, right?

Jim Oostdyk: Yeah. Yeah, that accident, yeah, you know, like you said, bad things become good things for you. Yeah. So that Jeep no insurance on it, so just had, you know, basic liability.

Scott Brady: Sure.

Jim Oostdyk: So I had to bring it in, and now it’s got no wheels, so [00:07:00] I, I stripped the old rusty body off of it, looked at it. The frame was good. Axles were good. And there was, um, at that time, there… Jeeps were pretty common. Mm-hmm. People were fixing them. There was a guy in Pennsylvania that made fiberglass bodies, so I’m like, “That’s perfect.”

I ran out there and got one of those, put that on it put it all back together. Changed the motor while I was at it ’cause, um, it, uh- And why not? … the four cylinder wasn’t big enough.

Scott Brady: Yeah, we talked about that story too.

Jim Oostdyk: Yeah. Had to put, you know, a, a Warn overdrive in it, a- Yeah … a b- a V6 in it. And as I was building that, I saw an opportunity because people would see it and ask me what it was.

So I would tell them, you know, “It’s an old Jeep. I’m redoing it. I’m putting suspension in it.” And people said, “I have one. Can you do mine?”

Scott Brady: And- Yeah …

Jim Oostdyk: and then people with trucks would come in, “Hey, if you do Jeeps, can you lift a truck? Can you put bigger tires?” Mm-hmm. And we sold tires at the time, so we started selling more of the off-road [00:08:00] tires.

Some cool things I was ordering from Acme Truck Parts- Yeah … out of California, which you had heard of. Yeah. Totally. And, uh, all those old companies, you know, I’d read magazines to see what was new, learned, and dealt with some other four-wheel drive shops in the area- Mm … to get parts from. And, um, just create- started creating a business out of that, and changed the name from Jim’s Getty, ’cause we sold Getty gas- To OK4WDrive And what was, uh, what is, what does OK mean in the name?

Scott Brady: Just like it’s okay? Yeah. Or what does it, what does it mean? Well, no. So, so that yeah, everybody thinks we’re from Oklahoma- … which, which is, which isn’t the case. Uh, the, New Jersey. What are you doing with OK? Uh, in school, my last name is very difficult. Starts with an O, ends with a K. Yeah. And I had a teacher that looked at…

Jim Oostdyk: He said my first name, then he gets to my second- or my last name, and just said, “Jim OK.” And then all my buddies and stuff started calling me [00:09:00] OK. It stuck. And then also as I was doing business, uh, g- one of my best friends was into it too. He sold his muscle car and bought a Jeep. His last name started with a K, mine was with an O.

We were kinda gonna do this OK thing on, on the side maybe. Sure. And, um, you know, we just kinda, that name was just always around me.

Scott Brady: And it stuck. Yeah.

Jim Oostdyk: It stuck. Yeah.

Scott Brady: Yeah, we both started with old CJ5s, and I changed out the four cylinder too, and immediately regretted it, like I told you. I ended, think I, I ended up breaking everything else on the Jeep, and it didn’t do any better off-road.

So that was a early lesson for me that, you know, don’t do the horsepower trick first. Get, get some lockers- Yes … in there if you really wanna go in the back country.

Jim Oostdyk: Yeah, you break a lot of stuff with horsepower. Yeah.

Scott Brady: Yeah, I broke a, I broke a lot of stuff. That Jeep sat in various states of repair a lot more than I drove it, but I mean, what a story of persistence though, because starting a business like that, [00:10:00] uh, bootstrapping it like you did, I mean, that is extremely difficult. But you talked a lot about the people that you met along the way that really made it possible. You know, I think back on- Yeah … on my business, and it would’ve been impossible for me- to be successful without incredible employees and, and other people that just were interested in what I did and wanted to help.

And you talked about some of the other shops in the area. You know, what, what do you think contributed to that y- making it through that really tough startup of a business? What were some of the attributes that you look back and say, “Wow, that really made a difference for me”?

Jim Oostdyk: Yeah. A lot of people liked helping me because I was young.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Jim Oostdyk: You know, th- you know, I was, you know, 18, 19, and when they found that out, “Hey, this guy’s trying to start a business, you know, let’s, let’s-“

Scott Brady: Pretty endearing.

Jim Oostdyk: Yeah. It really

Scott Brady: is.

Jim Oostdyk: And it, it, I wasn’t threatening to their business- Sure … so they kind of helped me too, a [00:11:00] lot of them. And, and I try to do that, too, if I see young people in business, try to encourage them, try to s- you know, support them.

But that was a big thing just getting advice from people, asking questions and them telling me. And, you know, being that young, at that time we didn’t have Google to fix cars. Sure. We had books.

Scott Brady: Yep.

Jim Oostdyk: So if I didn’t have the book, I had to b- you know, make friends with people at a dealership to, to “How do I rebuild this transmission?”

You know? And, you know, I, I was buying the books that I could, but just tried to set my network up. And then the business part of it, I wanted to set us apart. We were in a dumpy two-bay garage. We were young kids. Like, who’s gonna give us money? So what, what… Once I got that Jeep done, I did I did a Detroit Locker in the back and a True Track in the front.

And that business was next to a stream, and I would ta- put… take people with me and I’d go down into the stream under the bridge, which kind of blew their [00:12:00] minds- Yeah … at the time. And then I would come out of that creek on a, on the other side into a field, and we had crazy, you know, stuff, a like a little obstacle course.

Sure. And then I’d come out back through the creek, back up the bank, and people had never seen that before.

Scott Brady: Right.

Jim Oostdyk: And, I had people coming down just to go for a ride with me- Right … because it was such a novelty at the time. But that, that little ride in my Jeep is what, so many people were selling their cars, buying trucks because now there was stuff to do too.

There was racing going on, four-wheel drive racing. So all of that kind of was coming together at the same time, ’79, ’80, right place at the right time- Yeah … and the, and the right people, you know, around me.

Scott Brady: Oh, that’s good, man. I mean, it, it makes… I think like even if you go to Australia, you go to an ARB store, uh, a lot of them out front, they have these mechanized obstacles where they can make it smooth, and then they have these hydraulic rams and they can [00:13:00] actually- Oh, yeah

make severe crossed axle articulation scenarios so that someone can come up with a vehicle with the open diffs and it starts to spin or maybe starts in two-wheel drive, and then four-wheel drive, and then four low, and then the rear locker comes on, and then eventually it can be so extreme that you have to have the front locker to get through it.

Yeah. Um, and they sell a lot of lockers because of that. Yeah. Because it really demonstrates, “Ah, I’ve had that happen before, like on the trail, and I remember my tires spinning,” and now they don’t spin at all, so… or spin much less. So I think, I think that kind of demonstration of performance is always so important.

One of the things that I’ve really noticed with you guys is I think taking the risk on big objectives, on saying, “Hey, I’m gonna- I’m gonna bring in an entire line of roof tents, or I’m gonna partner, uh, with a company like Valuecab and we’re gonna bring in the entire line that they produce and help them make products for the North American [00:14:00] market.

Would you say that those exclusive agreements, things like that have made a big difference for your business?

Jim Oostdyk: Yeah, totally. They- they’ve, they’ve… We’ve always been looking, you know, we, we’ve got… Y- when you’re into your hobby-

Scott Brady: Yeah …

Jim Oostdyk: you’re always looking for how it can be better. Yeah. And, and you’re looking for brands that are out there.

When I started traveling, getting out of, out of the US and looking at other countries, one common denominator was every country I went to, no matter how poor it was, they had four-wheel drives. Yeah, sure. And I almost always saw an ARB sign, in- Yeah … in every continent or country. And then they always had stuff that was unique to the US.

More durable, more, more utilitarian.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Jim Oostdyk: So that really, I built up an appetite for that. And, um, and then Wren, my, my oldest son, I would take him with me, and he r- had that same passion, and we’d always try to find [00:15:00] a local off-road shop.

Scott Brady: Sure.

Jim Oostdyk: Mexico or South America or wherever. See what’s cool.

Yeah, and see what’s cool. And then when we found something cool, we wanted to bring it back to the US, make sure we could market it correctly here. Mm. If it didn’t fit our vehicles, which are different, how do we get it, you know, to work on our vehicles? Yeah. And, um, just always had that appetite for something new and better.

Scott Brady: So. And you’ve, you guys have done a great job of that. I mean, and then speaking of, you know, helping out young people, I think that’s one of the coolest things about what you’re doing, is you get to work with your son every day, and now you get to work with your daughter as well. But, you know, Wren has really become, you know, a recognized expert in the industry, particularly around overlanding, uh, very much so around the new Grenadier.

Tell me how that experience is going for you. What, what are you learning about yourself working with your kid- … w- working with your kid? You know, w- when, when you’re, you’re operating on a shoestring [00:16:00] budget and you’re, you’re working your tail off so many hours, um, you know, you’re- you’ve got some good people working for you, and you gotta pay ’em well to keep ’em.

Jim Oostdyk: You’re, you’re always wishing you could clone yourself, yeah. And it’s, it’s kinda, Ryn is, like, my clone- Yeah … I feel having him. And I’ve got s- tremendous staff. Yeah. I’ve got some guys with me 40… Scott’s been with me 46 years. Yeah. Mike’s 40 years. Dave’s 40 years. Steve’s, I think, 35.

Like, most all of our management team- Yeah … we’ve been working together for a long time. But Ryn is ex- he’s so much myself, and- Yeah … and we, we’re like best friends, and, uh- You guys

Scott Brady: do a lot together.

Jim Oostdyk: We do.

Scott Brady: You share the same office.

Jim Oostdyk: We don’t fight. We- Yeah … you know, we, we just tease each other when- Sure

when it gets to that point. Right. And, um, we understand each other well, and he’s really been taking the reins, and he’s given me [00:17:00] a new desire to, you know, get the company rolling again. You know.

Scott Brady: I’ve seen it. Yeah. I’ve seen it. I mean, I, I think that a lot of times founders, they build incredible businesses and, you know, the, the second generation, if you’re lucky, can at least operate ’em.

It’s pretty rare that the second generation can grow ’em. But because of Ryn and his passion for it, you guys are growing again, and that’s pretty neat to see. It’s pretty rare, and you can see it in Ryn’s eyes. Like, he really loves what he does. He’s very meticulous around how he prepares vehicles. Yeah, he’s- And that results in, I think, a better product.

Jim Oostdyk: Yeah.

Scott Brady: And so now he’s designing his own products, and he’s working with GP Factor, and, and you guys are just really doing innovative things that I think help you stand apart in a constantly changing business landscape. I mean- Yeah … the whole idea of, of being a retail four-wheel drive shop, I don’t think it has much utility as it used to.[00:18:00]

But h- making your own products, having control over that, you know, m- whole manufacturing process, being able to sell them around the country even to other dealers, that’s a huge win.

Jim Oostdyk: Yeah, that, that’s the biggest change- Yeah … how that, how that’s evolved into that. And a lot of the good shops really struggle to, to make a living on- Yeah

you know, the, their labor rate they can make money on, but they also have to make it on the parts they sell.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Jim Oostdyk: A- as a car dealer does. Sure. So and the expense of doing business today with payroll, benefits, and just everything else, rents,

Scott Brady: that’ll keep you up at night for

Jim Oostdyk: sure.

You, you definitely, yeah, the, the margins are, are important to stay in business. Mm-hmm. And that’s really, that’s why a lot of shops have gone out.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Jim Oostdyk: They just can’t, you know, the, the D2C model has kicked in for most of the manufacturers, and, um- But I think everything changes, you know? It does.

It’s gonna change again. It will. [00:19:00] So we just have to stay on top of it.

Scott Brady: Well, and you guys, and you guys are, and I can see it. And let’s talk a little bit about, let’s pivot the conversation towards some of your travels. I mean, you talked about spending weeks in Ghana, where you helped a school, helped do a bunch of construction on a school, you and your kids.

How did that experience change you? ‘Cause that is, that’s a very small, very obscure country, not very many people know about it. You know, I only drove through it a couple months ago. Um- Yeah … and it’s, it’s a very unique place in the world. How did that experience change your relationship with your kids, with you opening yourselves up to travel like that?

Jim Oostdyk: Yeah, so the, the Africa trip was, um, I had done some trips with Rynn, and then my, my son Matthew, and then my daughter’s always hearing all these stories, and she’s wanting to go. And again, with that network of people, I always kept my ears open and, and would ask people, “Hey, [00:20:00] we’re, we love traveling to do, you know, mission work to help- Sure

where- wherever we can go.” So I did, I took her to Haiti first, and then, uh, the next year we had an opportunity to go to Africa. So I figured I’d like to take all three. ‘Cause I’ve taken them individually, but let’s do all three. Mm-hmm. So the Ghana trip, we had an opportunity to go to a little town called Tefle, and um, it was like a, a river town, uh, in the middle of nowhere.

And the first night we were there, we put my daughter in with some other women in a compound, and me and the boys stayed in town. And Ju- we get into town, Julia’s all set up, and Julia forgets her inhaler- Hmm … for asthma. I, Rynn didn’t wanna go back, so Matt and I walked back. Thought we were gonna get mugged At, at night.

Didn’t. Uh, came back. But that, those [00:21:00] trips, th- basically my, my, my kids got so into all these trips they didn’t wanna go to Disney, they didn’t wanna do anything else. They wanted to travel abroad.

Scott Brady: I mean, what a gift

Jim Oostdyk: to them. And, and it’s, it’s very adventurous. Yeah. You know? My wife stayed home and prayed for us And, and off we went.

Uh- And, and we did some wild stuff.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Jim Oostdyk: Had, had- Uh,

Scott Brady: and made a difference in people’s- … great times … made a difference in people’s lives and exposed your kids to other cultures.

Jim Oostdyk: Yeah.

Scott Brady: And just the realization that despite the fact that you’re on an entirely different continent and maybe they believe something different than you do speak a different language than you do, that we’re all the same.

Jim Oostdyk: Totally.

Scott Brady: Um, we all have the same goals and aspirations in our life. And, uh, I believe for kids that’s a, it’s a critical experience for them to have- Yeah … some perspective, right?

Jim Oostdyk: Yeah.

Scott Brady: I- Yeah …

Jim Oostdyk: d- I recommend it to everybody. Yeah. Try to do it with your kids. You know, they come back changed.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Jim Oostdyk: And that, you know, [00:22:00] we always had a four wheel drive to fix- Yeah

when we were there. And we learned, we learned so much stuff, you know, with these unique four wheel drive systems and, and going to little shops and watching guys rebuild an alternator out of just junk parts. Awesome. Yeah. It was awesome.

Scott Brady: Yeah. I mean, they’re, they’re so, they’re not only innovative, but they’re industrious.

I mean, they find a way- Oh … they find a way to keep these old vehicles moving and going and- Repairing- …

Jim Oostdyk: everything

Scott Brady: else. Yeah, it makes a big difference …

Jim Oostdyk: repairing taillights on a barbecue-

Scott Brady: Yeah …

Jim Oostdyk: one guy was. He was melting plastic to make a new taillight, you know? And Rynn and I were-

Scott Brady: Isn’t that incredible?

Jim Oostdyk: “Can we film you?” You know?

Scott Brady: Yeah. That’s awesome.

Jim Oostdyk: Yeah.

Scott Brady: And then you guys had, you guys have done, uh, some trips into s- Southern Africa as well because of your relationship with Alu-Cab and some of the other companies. But what’s been some of your most favorite adventures that you’ve done in Southern Africa?

Jim Oostdyk: Oh, South Africa, just, uh, camping with Alu-Cab, [00:23:00] uh, going to, remote places- Yeah … and, um, just the, the sights you see. You know, we’re- Ren and I, our first time we were camping, we’re sitting around a campfire, and Jeremy goes, “You know, a week ago, a kid was sitting around this campfire and was missing, and they found that the hyenas dragged him off and ate him.”

Again, perspective, right? So we

Scott Brady: were,

Jim Oostdyk: we were kept looking behind us. Yeah. And, um, yeah. And how, you know, it’s beautiful down there, but how different it is, too. Yeah. It’s a… It, it could be dangerous.

Scott Brady: Totally.

Jim Oostdyk: But so much fun.

Scott Brady: I’m, yeah, I’m telling you, I mean, if any other place I would wanna live in the world other than America, it would be South Africa, for sure.

Yeah. I’d leave in a minute.

Jim Oostdyk: I wanna

Scott Brady: see more. Despite its pro- despite its problems, it’s just, it, like, for me, there’s no place like it on the planet, for sure.

Jim Oostdyk: Yeah.

Scott Brady: Well, one of the things that I really wanted to chat with you about on, on the [00:24:00] podcast, and one of the things that I really admire about you is your, your love for history and the intention that you put behind it to go and find out information about, our founding fathers, about innovators within industry the industries that exist all around where you grew up.

And that was part of our driving around over the last week is- Yeah … we’d be going down a road, and you’d say, “Hey, Scott, that’s Edison, one of Edison’s homes.” So let’s, let’s talk a little bit about Thomas Edison and his connection in with your community and some of the interesting things that you found out about him and his overland travels.

Jim Oostdyk: Yeah. Just the… Yeah, well I grew up right around Edison’s concrete factory. It was abandoned concrete factory next to railroad tracks that I grew up riding dirt bikes on and my sons, you know, grew up driving dirt bikes on. And I, I knew my grandfather had worked there. He left the farm to go [00:25:00] work at the concrete plant, so I started reading books on Edison.

Scott Brady: Sure.

Jim Oostdyk: And kind of got into it. Like, I… You know, you hear of him in high school, but you didn’t… I didn’t realize how many things he invented. And it just, it, it intrigued me. From, he’s from New Jersey too, so got to see the Edison Museum, which is a national park now, which is incredible too. And then Jason tells me about this camping thing- Yeah

with the Vagabonds, him and Henry Ford, Harvey Firestone, John Burroughs.

Scott Brady: Yep.

Jim Oostdyk: And, uh, I’m like, “What? I didn’t know that.” Jason gave me the book, read the book, and here we are, you know, sitting in, in a historic building that these guys traveled all the way down and, and camped at, so. S-

Scott Brady: so cool. It was.

I mean, one of the things that I noticed from the photos that you showed me of the Edison Museum is, you know, the chairs that they used for camping- Yeah … they look exactly like the chairs that we use today. They’re like a wooden [00:26:00] butterfly chair.

Jim Oostdyk: Yeah.

Scott Brady: Like, I mean- Yeah … it, and the, you know, the story of, you know, those gentlemen, those incredible in- leaders in industry, you know, they all had to get away from the office and go do something fun, and it probably gave them all kinds of great ideas and gave them a little mental reset, and to work with other people that they cared about.

Uh, but to jump in a couple Model Ts- Just like we do t- today. I mean, they- Yeah … they had a pickup and they had a, like a canopy over the back of one of ’em and, you know, they, they had one of ’em that had a refrigerator in it. And because it was Thomas Edison, he brought a battery- … and li- camp lights, right?

Jim Oostdyk: Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Scott Brady: So I mean, like we’re here in West Virginia, and I suspect that when they kicked those lights on, everyone in the area, none of them had lights. And to see portable lights- Batteries … with batteries, it, it had to have felt like the first time you saw Waymo drive by without a driver behind the wheel.

I mean, that, that’s mind-blowing.

Jim Oostdyk: Yeah. [00:27:00]

Scott Brady: And it had to have been mind-blowing for these people.

Jim Oostdyk: It… Yeah, really, and, and that was the beginning of, of motorized vehicle travel-

Scott Brady: Yeah …

Jim Oostdyk: you know, at that time.

Scott Brady: For sure.

Jim Oostdyk: And how similar it still is today,

Scott Brady: not much different. I mean, when you were showing me some of the things that they brought along and I was looking at some of the old photos, I mean, it’s kind of the same stuff.

Yeah, to-

Jim Oostdyk: yeah, utensils-

Scott Brady: It’s ki- it’s kind of the

Jim Oostdyk: same stuff … camping

Scott Brady: pots. And they were working on the trucks and they were getting stuck and, you know, pulling each other out and, you know, in fact, I think that they came to this, you know, Camp Cheat Mountain Lodge, where we’re at right now they came here to, just to get a little bit of a break.

Jim Oostdyk: Yeah.

Scott Brady: You know, they’d had a really hard go, and they wanted to kind of reset and, you know, get a shower and probably get a warm meal and all. I mean-

Jim Oostdyk: Yeah … that’s so similar to travelers today. Totally, and, and Edison even made fun of them for staying in a lodge- … which we’ve d- all done,

Scott Brady: this content is brought to [00:28:00] you by Overland Journal, our premium quality print publication.

The magazine was founded in 2006 with the goal of providing independent equipment and vehicle reviews along with the most stunning adventures and photography. We care deeply about the countries and cultures we visit, and share our experiences freely with our readers. We also have zero advertorial policy and do not accept any advertiser compensation for our reviews.

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Jim Oostdyk: You know, if you gotta, y- you’re out camping- Yeah … you’re starting to smell pretty bad. Yeah. [00:29:00] You wanna stay at a hotel.

Scott Brady: I remember, uh, you know, Front Runner, which has been in our industry for a long time, th- one of the guys who founded is Stanley, Stanley Ohman is his name, and I would, I’ve traveled with him several times, and he will not stay in a place.

Jim Oostdyk: Yeah.

Scott Brady: I mean, he could buy the hotel- … that we would’ve stayed at- Yeah … all of them along the way, but he wanted nothing to do with it.

Jim Oostdyk: Yeah.

Scott Brady: It was his one chance to get out in his overland vehicle, and he wanted to camp. He wanted to find a campsite, and they w- and he didn’t care if he hadn’t showered in a week.

And, and I think that, that was a good lesson for me too, is like be really intentional about… this trip for me has been a wonderful reset. It’s been… I’ve been more relaxed over the last couple days. I’ve intentionally not done as much work. Sat this morning and read a book and- Yeah … like, just, I mean, I took a walk back from the fly fishing.

Stuff that I would normally never give myself permission to do. Yeah, it’s a good [00:30:00] reminder. Go out- We don’t, we don’t get

Jim Oostdyk: enough of that … have a little reset.

Scott Brady: Yeah, go out- Yeah … get a little bit of a reset.

Jim Oostdyk: Yeah.

Scott Brady: Reset in there. Yeah, for sure.

Jim Oostdyk: Sometimes, sometimes we’re driving point to point and making, such a tight schedule-

Scott Brady: Yep

Jim Oostdyk: yeah, that you just don’t get time to sit around and, and enjoy- each other,

Scott Brady: so talk a little bit about what you’ve learned about Jason and the Mountain State Overland team and, and why you work with them and, and what are they, what are they helping to provide i- in the East that I think that this com- it’s helped grow the community.

So let’s talk a little bit about- Yeah … your relationship with Mountain State Overland what you guys are working on, um, and how you’re really helping to, to enable travel for East Coast

Jim Oostdyk: folks. Yeah. Um, that, I give Ren most of that credit for g- uh, beginning that relationship with Jason.

Scott Brady: Mm.

Jim Oostdyk: You know, roughly about the same age.

Uh, we started doing some of the events and then ran into Jason. And, um, then, um, I remember [00:31:00] watching some of Jason’s early, you know, YouTube adventures.

Scott Brady: Yeah,

Jim Oostdyk: great videos. Yeah. And we’ve always, we get people excited about their new four-wheel drive and what it can do. Now you gotta get them out using it.

So we love to hook up with people, you know, like Mountain State, where, “Hey go with these guys and they’ll… You’re, you’re gonna see what your four-wheel drive can do. You’re gonna camp. You’re gonna enjoy it.” Uh, MSO, Mountain State Overland, they’ve been great at keeping this East Coast area, and myself, like educating me on West Virginia.

I mean, I’ve been here, this is probably my sixth or seventh time now. Sure. And e- every time it’s different, and there’s still much more to see. I’ve never-

Scott Brady: And it wasn’t that bad of a drive. I mean, we took our time, stopped for some good barbecue and stuff like that. Yeah. But, like, maybe five hours from New Jersey- Yeah

to here.

Jim Oostdyk: Yep. Yeah, nice day trip. It’s, you know, it’s, it’s scenic along the way. Mm-hmm. Um, yeah. [00:32:00] And, um, yeah, those guys have been great at- You know, so there’s some people that have events and people are satisfied.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Jim Oostdyk: You know? So we always try to hook ourselves up with, you know, good vendors, not only for the parts that we sell, but the opportunities that we can hook people up with too.

And-

Scott Brady: the quality of this event is, it’s really exceptional. I mean, and you’ve got professionals coming in from Washington, DC, and from the Carolinas. I mean, people coming in from all over the place- Yeah … to get together. And, like, we all sit family-style down this big table, and I’ve had great conversations with folks.

Yeah. So I- it it’s renewed my interest in learning more about the East. And, you know, my grandfather grew up in West Virginia. I just don’t know anything about where he grew up. I’ve never been to the places that he would’ve been as a young man. And yeah, so I think, I think it’s easy to say like, “Ah, Utah is…”

I mean, Utah is beautiful, right?

Jim Oostdyk: [00:33:00] It is, yeah.

Scott Brady: But the thing that’s different about here is, is the depth of the history. Yeah. It’s so extensive. The places that you and I… We stopped in this one little town, and here was an inn from 1738 or ’39, I don’t remember.

Jim Oostdyk: Yeah.

Scott Brady: Like pre-Revolution. Yeah,

Jim Oostdyk: Bethlehem, PA.

Yeah. Pre-

Scott Brady: Yeah, in Bethlehem … far before the Revolution. Incredible. And then you and I got, we got to take a walk around Bethlehem Steel and see the size of that operation.

Jim Oostdyk: Yeah.

Scott Brady: And that it ran for 100-plus years. I mean, that’s incredible.

Jim Oostdyk: Yeah.

Scott Brady: That’s some incredible pieces of American history.

Jim Oostdyk: Yeah, seeing, seeing those sights and spending time with people.

Last weekend I had a group af- we had a, Trucks and Coffee, and I took a group up to Anthracite Outdoor Adventure area, uh, in Pennsylvania. Another awesome place. Uh, the state of Pennsylvania actually took all this old coal mining land and has [00:34:00] turned it into recreational off-roading. And I’m showing these people some of these really cool geological sights and I said, “You know, we live at the best time you could ever live.”

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Jim Oostdyk: Our forefathers were here busting their butts digging coal out of the earth- Yeah … breathing that dust and dirt, and here we are driving on it with four-wheel drive vehicles. Like, how cool- Yeah … is that,

Scott Brady: and it is. It’s also, I mean, you’ve seen it over 47 years, but it also feels like, you know, we’re in a golden era of four-wheel driving.

The, the options that are coming out of the factory right now with the, how capable these vehicles are. I mean, the fact that something like the Grenadier even exists, it’s an entire car company that makes cars just for us.

Jim Oostdyk: Yeah.

Scott Brady: Just for vehicle-based travelers. I mean, it’s… I mean, they’re not meant to be rock crawlers.

They’re literally meant to be travel vehicles. They’re made just for that. And I mean, how luck- how lu- how lucky are we?

Jim Oostdyk: [00:35:00] Very.

Scott Brady: If you had a car with a limited slip, you felt like you were, you had it going on as an off-roader. I mean, in the ’70s, like, you had, if you had posi traction- Oh, yeah … oh.

Jim Oostdyk: Yeah.

If you

Scott Brady: had posi traction.

Jim Oostdyk: Yeah. I still remember my dad, having a posi traction station wagon- … trying to get up a snow hill in the winter. And now we have push button lockers front and back- It’s cra- … with traction control

Scott Brady: It’s crazy. It is crazy. It’s absolutely crazy. Yeah. Well, I mean, one of the things that we can learn from you on in this podcast, and I’d love to hear your thoughts, Jim, is, I mean, again, you’ve been doing this for 47 years.

You’ve four-wheeled around the world. You’ve made your profession out of it. You know, if someone’s getting new, coming in new to four-wheel driving, backcountry travel, and overlanding what would you say are the, are the first, three, four, five things that they need to be paying attention to?

Like, let’s say they come in with a new Tacoma. What are you gonna, what are you gonna talk them through to help them know [00:36:00] what really needs to be paid attention to on the vehicle?

Jim Oostdyk: Yeah. We our sales staff, we’ve, uh, really worked on this for years, like trying to… You, you gotta qualify the customer to make sure we’re building out this vehicle to suit what they do.

So you gotta find out what they’re doing with it. A four-wheel drive is a tool for people to do, to make their hobby or outdoor adventure better. Just like Edison and Ford, they used that Model T, you know, to, to get down here. We, we have people that use them for work. We have people that use them for play, you know, whether it be fishing, hunting, just off-roading-

Scott Brady: Yep

Jim Oostdyk: camping. Most people today, because they’re so expensive, wanna multipurpose that thing as much as they can. So we wanna build it very functional for them. Not overbuild it where it stinks on the road, but, you know, if they’re, if they’re gonna run highway speeds at 80 miles an hour, it’s gotta function good there and be safe- as well as get them [00:37:00] to the camp or wherever they wanna take it off road.

Scott Brady: Yeah, sure.

Jim Oostdyk: And there’s a lot of trade-offs there, so we have to really understand what the customer wants to do with it. A lot of them don’t even know what they wanna do with it. Yeah. They just, they just bought this thing ’cause, you know, they, they, maybe they hit an age in life or they got some money and they always wanted one.

But then we bring them into the community, and that is probably the thing that I find the most intriguing in, in this business, is the community building. You look at the friendships that are developing here. Sure. Some are old, some are new. We’ve seen marriages. I’ve seen I got three generations of customers where, the grandpa and me built vehicles together- Yeah

then his kid and his kid. So it’s generational. Yeah. And it keeps that family together. You know? It, it’s, it’s, uh, so… There’s so many variables to it, but that four-wheel drive is, is, is such an essential tool. I never realized [00:38:00] that a- as I was getting into it, you know, the community building aspect of it.

Scott Brady: And- And that’s also, that’s a great point because it gives gives the customer the opportunity to see what works and what doesn’t work in the field. You can talk to other people that have maybe said, you know, like, was talking with one of the guys this morning, he’s like, “Ah, well, actually this rack isn’t really great for me.

I need something different.”

Jim Oostdyk: Yeah.

Scott Brady: You know? And, and-

Jim Oostdyk: Yeah …

Scott Brady: you know, if he, if he’s sharing that with someone else, it might save them a purchase of like, “Oh, I’ve got the same issue,” um, or, “I need something a little bit different.” Um, that makes a lot of sense to get the customer plugged in with a community first.

Jim Oostdyk: Yeah. And-

Scott Brady: And then what would be next? After they’ve gotten plugged in with a community, what do you normally, Like, if you think about someone who wants to they pick up a new Grenadier and they wanna drive it all the way down to Panama. You guys build a lot of expedition trucks. What are, what do you find are the things that people should really be paying attention to that helps them have a safer, more [00:39:00] capable vehicle?

Jim Oostdyk: Yeah. Ju- just some, s- some of our customers wanna overbuild a vehicle.

Scott Brady: Mm.

Jim Oostdyk: They want every gadget, every i- every tool that you could think of. Mm. And then they overload it, have too much and then it becomes a problem. W- we’ve found we have a lot of customers that just… And, and partly myself, and, and my son is this way, we love to build stuff.

Mm. Once we’re done with a project we think of ways to change it again or build another project. Mm-hmm. It, it, it-

Scott Brady: That is your business. You have an excuse.

Jim Oostdyk: Yeah, we do. And, um- And we have a lot of customers like that, too. The build process of it is fun, and you wanna make it fun. It really is fun.

And if you’re gonna build your house or remodel your house, you wanna make it fun. You want it to be yours. You wanna have input to it. And, um, and that… we love customers that understand what they have, too. They know how to use it, because if you’re alone and something breaks, you wanna [00:40:00] have a basic understanding of it.

Mm. It could cost you your life if you don’t know how to get- Right … get your vehicle started or get it unstuck or whatever.

Scott Brady: So- Probably even more of a reason not to overcomplicate or overbuild the vehicle is- Exactly. Yeah … you’ve gotta be able to service it in the field. And if you take a vehicle like a Grenadier, which is, you know, it’s sold in 54 countries, but if you’ve got…

If you completely replaced some critical component of it, where are you gonna find spares?

Jim Oostdyk: Yeah.

Scott Brady: Like, you could ship in a stock something or other, but if it’s been modified and the stock part no longer fits, that can be a real problem-

Jim Oostdyk: Yeah … for sure. Yeah.

Scott Brady: Now, I mean, it seems like, you know, one of the stories that you’ve told me that I love was, you know, you were the first shop to install an air locker in the US.

And like, just tell that story, ’cause I think it’s so neat.

Jim Oostdyk: Yeah. Uh, the guy calls up, “I have the… I was in Australia, I got this really cool locker, and I’d like [00:41:00] to know if you guys would be interested in installing it for us.” That guy’s name was Jim Jackson. He was in New Hampshire. He comes down with a Ford either…

I think it was an F-150, like 1989. And, um, we put… It was a Ford 8.8 differential, and we get this thing, we open it up. There’s a c- air compressor, there’s a differential. Like, what is this thing? You know, um, you had a, a carrier bearing with a copper line coming out that fed the air, that engaged the locker.

So we’re like, “This… If this thing works, this, this is amazing.” So we hooked it all up for him, put it all u- all on. And I still remember it was, uh… There, across from our shop, there’s a big field and a gas pipeline that goes up the mountain And Jim, we get it all done for Jim and he gets in, he goes, “Let’s go see if this thing works.”

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Jim Oostdyk: We go right to that [00:42:00] pipeline and starts slipping, and he hits the button and boom, it engages and-

Scott Brady: Incredible …

Jim Oostdyk: and up it goes. So that became our relationship with ARB. They were, um… Jim eventually moved the business over to Seattle. Much more conducive for importing parts from Australia.

Scott Brady: Sure.

Jim Oostdyk: And, um, we’ve installed hundreds of these Air Lockers over the years, and, uh, I’ve, I have a Jeep that’s had two of them in it for probably 30 years now.

Scott Brady: Plus. Yeah. I, I mean, ARB just celebrated their 50th anniversary last year, and you’re a couple years away from celebrating the 50th of OK4WD- Yeah, yeah … which is awesome. We’re getting

Jim Oostdyk: there.

Scott Brady: Yeah. I mean, I- If I

Jim Oostdyk: make it.

Scott Brady: Oh, you’ll make… you’ll make it. And I, we gotta, we gotta make sure we fill people in on whatever cool plans you’ve got, hopefully some big adventure that Ren and you get to do for the [00:43:00] 50th.

But, a person like Jim Jackson, I mean, the people that you’ve helped come into this industry you know, Overland Journal wouldn’t exist if it wasn’t for ARB. ARB took a risk on us. Lisa Wood and, and Chris Wood- Mm … and Jim Jackson, uh, you know, I came in with a concept of Overland Journal, and they just said, “Scott, we believe in what you do, and we wanna help you.”

And they signed up for an ad campaign before there was even a magazine. And if it wasn’t for risks like that, that they took on me, I wouldn’t have had the career that I got to enjoy. So as an industry, we’ve gotta remember constantly, but, like, let’s be looking for great people that we can do long-term business with.

And it will change all of our lives for the better- Yeah … I think. Yeah, we’re all in it together. Yeah. You know? We like… Yeah, with those names you mentioned were instrumental in helping me as well. Yep. You know, and then what you’ve done, you know, with Overland Journal, Expedition Portal, was so [00:44:00] instrumental in taking the four-wheel drive industry, which a lot of people look down on.

Jim Oostdyk: Now when I tell people what I do, they get it. Years ago, I’d walk into a bank to try to get money, and, “Hey, I got a four-wheel drive business.” Like, “We’re not giving you any.” “What is that?” Sure. But now people understand what it is, and it’s, uh, it’s amazing what all those good people have brought, you know, to the industry.

Scott Brady: Yeah. We’re, we’re all pretty lucky. And then you got, you know- outfitters and, and guides like, you know, Mountain State, and you got folks that are, uh, doing great training. Yeah. You know, like Overland Experts back east. Yeah. You know, you’ve got more and more involvement with Tread Lightly, and I think there was another…

Tell me about, uh, what NORRA is there in your area. Yeah,

Jim Oostdyk: so NORRA’s a really cool uh, off-road park in New York. Ellenville, New York. About 100 miles from us, and probably even a little less than that from New York [00:45:00] City. Scott Traeger, who started that became a good friend. I guided him at the Catskill Jeep Jamboree.

He had his three… I think it was him, his wife, and three kids in a TJ. He was a, a… He worked for Bloomberg in New York. Yep. Um, never off-roaded. Just knew he wanted to get out with his family and do something outdoors, and Scott went all in, man. I… After that event, we built his TJ up, you know, for him, and he got into it more and more.

Got involved with clubs. told me he’s gonna buy this land in Ellenville, New York and start his own off-road park and quit his job. I’m like, “What?”

Scott Brady: Amazing.

Jim Oostdyk: And he did. And, uh, yeah, he sold his house and moved up there. And his wife is awesome, and she supported him through all that. And now his kids are running it with him, and it’s, uh, it’s just a great thing.[00:46:00]

And they started doing, um, this limited mobility course for people that have, um, they are paralyzed and, um, and taking them out. Veterans and- Yep … just, uh, working with some homes that support those people and getting them outdoors in little carts- Yep … that he also rents and sells. And, um, some go off-road in, in off-road vehicles, and some use those carts just to get outside.

Scott Brady: Yeah, that’s right.

Jim Oostdyk: So he’s got a, a 501[c][3] now, and, um-

Scott Brady: Awesome …

Jim Oostdyk: yeah. So there’s so many things in all these different communities, not only in, in our area, i- but throughout the whole country which is awesome.

Scott Brady: And I remember when we were at your shop, out front, you know, there was a TRX that you guys had helped, uh, modify and adjust with the li- lift mechanism for, someone that’s a paraplegic that- Yeah

you know, has limited ability to control the vehicle. But because there’s so [00:47:00] many advanced tools now he’s actually able to drive his TRX around and enjoy being in the backcountry, which would’ve been very, very difficult you know, with, like, his ad- advanced conditions even 20 years ago.

Jim Oostdyk: Yeah.

Yeah, and we love doing that, for people like that customer, Dominic. Meta Medic Car Show- He had a, a motorcycle accident, paralyzed, you know, neck down. Mm. Then has one arm, uh, that, you know, use, that he can… So he can drive, gets in his wheelchair. The side of the TRX goes up, the wheelchair thing, uh, ramp comes down, puts him in, and off he goes in a, in a TRX, which is great.

Scott Brady: So cool. And- Great looking truck and-

Jim Oostdyk: And, and he… Yeah, he’s so excited. You know, we’re building it out with, the suspension and tire and wheel package- Mm-hmm … that he wants, and he’s gonna go up to Nora and have some fun with it, too. So- Yeah. It’s amazing … things like that are great.

Scott Brady: Yeah, it… [00:48:00] I think it’s an important reminder that, that there’s a lot of adventure to be had, uh, back east.

There’s a lot of great folks. There’s really, there’s, you know, there’s excellent shops out here, uh, like yours and Main Line and others that are just doing really great work out east and helping people build their vehicles, uh, not only for exploring here, but, you know, I was just talking with one of the attendees this morning, and he’s so excited to take his Tacoma all the way to, to, Baja.

I mean- Yeah … so people are, you know, they’re, that are living- Yeah … back here. Uh, and we’ve seen the, our community grow out here more and more. The number of subscribers in New York and the surrounding states continues to grow. So it’s clear that you guys are doing… It’s making a difference. You’re building a community of, of vehicle-based travelers out, out east, for sure.

Jim Oostdyk: Yeah. Yeah, we don’t have nearly as much land to, to play on out here.

Scott Brady: Yeah.

Jim Oostdyk: But we do have some beautiful places, and more things are opening out here. [00:49:00] But a lot of our customers will build to go to the west. And it’s not like a weekend thing, it’s like their, like, Exoverland, the big thing.

Yeah. You know? It’s-

Scott Brady: That’s right. Exactly. It’s the- Yeah … big thing for them to go do- … to go do for the year, for sure. Um, let me just kinda wrap things up with this last question. If you were to give any advice to that 18, 19-year-old self or anyone that’s listening that’s getting ready to start a life of, of love for vehicles and working on ve- what advice would you give to that younger self or to a-

Jim Oostdyk: 18 or 19-year-old that called you up on the phone and- Ah … said, “Jim, what do I do, man?” Yeah. I’m, I’m always happy to, if any of… are out there and ever need advice, happy to give advice to young people that are starting in business, and it’s tough. Y- stick it out. If you feel it in your heart- Just stick it out.

Yeah. You know, there’s quotes out there, like so many people [00:50:00] give up right before the, you know, the big break happens. Mm. Um, I didn’t have like a big break. It was like a gradual thing. But my wife, you know, stuck with me through so much of it. We… There were times we were rolling change so she could go buy groceries.

Yeah. But we believed in it and stuck it out. So just if… You know, put the work into it. Don’t think your staff is gonna do everything- Yeah … and you’re gonna sit back and be the boss. Mm. Get out, do what you gotta do. You know, clean the restrooms if you have to, and show your staff that e- everybody does everything within the organization too.

That’s what we do. Nobody’s too good for anything. Surround yourself with great people. That’s what I’ve been blessed with. You know, my staff, my family that support system gets you through the tough times, and there’s gonna be- Yeah … tough times.

Scott Brady: There al- there always is, and that’s, that’s what…

Doing hard things is what can give you those bigger [00:51:00] rewards.

Jim Oostdyk: Exactly.

Scott Brady: Um, you just gotta get through that. And, and your reputation in the industry speaks to that. The number of people in my career that have mentioned you, and the quality of you and your family, uh, it’s an honor to know you, Jim. It’s- Thanks

it’s, I’m honored to be your friend, and I’m just so grateful that we get to spend this time together here in West Virginia. Thank you so much for coming too. Yeah, absolutely. It’s, uh- No, it’s, it’s a joy. It’s, it’s

Jim Oostdyk: been awesome.

Scott Brady: And we really thank you all for listening. I mean, r- pursue your dreams. Go do those hard things.

If you wanna start your business, you know, reach out to Jim reach out to me, and you know, you might have to sell the Mustang, but- … I think it’s gonna be worth it at the end of the day.

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