Sprinter 4x4 Trail Run

[mhiscox]

Betcha can't guess what I did today . . .

Went out this morning in my ex-AdventureDuo LC80 on a trail run into the Tillamook State Forest as the chase truck for a fully functional, US-legal Sprinter 4x4 T1N prototype. Got to drive the Sprinter around, too.

The Sprinter worked well throughout the trip, going quite a few places where my 2WD Sprinter would have gotten seriously stuck. There were, in particular, areas of substantial mud where the combination of aggressive Toyo mud-terrains and the 4WD really paid off . . . no wheelspin at all. And unlike some of the earlier abortive conversions, this rig has a true hi/lo transfer case, which helped it crawl up some pretty steep terrain without relying on high revs and momentum.

Equally important was the on-pavement ride and handling, which was impressively normal at speed, not at all tippy or scary. The conversion uses lots of OEM components, down to the dashboard switches, and the integration was outstanding. There wasn't any of the kludgey, mismatched parts feeling that sometimes comes from swapping out driveline and suspension parts.

All in all, for those of us waiting for somebody to make off-roaders out of the NAFTA Sprinters . . . well, it's been a few years wait, but we're about there.

Need some more details? Yeah, me, too. I'll take responsibility for passing on information as specifications become final and things like cost, sourcing and availability get firmed up. For the moment, though, I thought it was important to let everyone on ExPo know that it was looking like the biggest strike against the Sprinter as a North American-based overlander was about to go away.

 

[AFSOC]

Hmmmm...a 4x4 Sprinter. You really are short on rigs. You should consider adding one to the stable.

 

[1leglance]

I would really like to be in the loop on this...
What a huge boon to the disabled world, the Sprinter platform is great and along with Sportmobile and Adventure Trailers creates a full range of options.
Please let me know details as soon as they aval.

Thanks

 

[Overland Hadley]

For the moment, though, I thought it was important to let everyone on ExPo know that it was looking like the biggest strike against the Sprinter as a North American-based overlander was about to go away.

Thats exciting! Please keep us posted.

 

[Michael Slade]

Good report. I miss that gas station and those trails.

 

[haven]

Mike,

Thanks for the report!

Looks like this conversion was developed by Sportsvans in South Africa.
http://www.us.sportsvans.co.za/news.html

The vehicle in the photos above is not a current model. The 2007 and
newer Sprinter is quite a bit different that the first generation. Will the
4x4 system be available for the new model, too?

The web site is a bit confusing on the subject of a rear diff lock. At one
point, the text says the 4x4 conversion is actually all wheel drive with a
35/65 power split. Mercedes 4ETS electronic traction control is used to
maintain control when wheel slip is encountered. On a different page,
reference is made to a mechanical rear diff locker.

Mike, did the truck you drove have the mechanical rear locking diff? Did
it also have the 4ETS system? And was the system full time all wheel drive?

I agree that some sort of locking diff is a good idea for the Sprinter. The first
generation vans with open differential that I drove in South America lost traction
very easily on any slippery surface (sand, grass, etc).

Chip Haven

 

[adventureduo]

Thanks for the report Mike, please let us know when you get new info. The cruiser looks good in the trees. :26_7_2:

 

[mhiscox]

Will the 4x4 system be available for the new model, too?

There's every expectation that the NV3s can also be converted, but experience suggests that no one can say for sure that things will work right on a U.S.-spec truck until it actually happens, and it hasn't yet. I suspect that one of the next conversions attempted will be of a new model.

The web site is a bit confusing on the subject of a rear diff lock. At one point, the text says the 4x4 conversion is actually all wheel drive with a 35/65 power split. Mercedes 4ETS electronic traction control is used to maintain control when wheel slip is encountered. On a different page, reference is made to a mechanical rear diff locker.

As I understand it, both "AWD with ETC" and true "4WD with mechanical locker" are possible for the North American conversions and it may be that both are eventually offered here. The truck I drove yesterday had switch-selectable (no manual locking of the hubs) two- and four-wheel drive with switch-selectable hi and low transmission ranges. The intention is to add the mechanical differential lock to this truck, but it was viewed as useful to get the truck out with just the 4WD and the open diffs to see how that worked.

There was one trail we decided not to do because it looked to have a number of spots where the Sprinter could have ended up with poor traction on both axles at the same time, though we agreed we would have tried--and probably made--it had we been running the locking diff. But in any situation where both wheels on either axle had traction, the truck did well.

I agree that some sort of locking diff is a good idea for the Sprinter. The first generation vans with open differential that I drove in South America lost traction very easily on any slippery surface (sand, grass, etc).

There'll definitely be a mechanical locking rear diff option, and there's some chance the diff will be offered by itself. If that happens, that could be a very useful, less-costly, good bang-for-the-buck improvement. As Chip points out, the Sprinter's hard-to-fathom traction control will give up early on some pretty wimpy surfaces, while it's occasionally surprised me by working well on stuff that would seem more difficult. Regardless, while the economics may or may not work out for a given owner to do the full 4WD conversion, I thinking a lot of people would profit from adding the locking diff at a minimum.

I'll get everyone the mechanical specifications, as well as information about cost and availability, just as soon as they are available. For the moment, the accomplishment is getting this one U.S. Sprinter to run and drive right and not tip over on a turn, but that step doesn't immediately translate into a full-blown business model. Once there is a plan, I'll be sure to share it.

 

[herby]

2007 Sprinter 4wd

The new Sprinter 2007 prototype is getting ready and is planed for testing in Dec/Jan. :wings:

 

[ujoint]

I LOVE the color of that Sprinter!

 

[mhiscox]

As promised, I have more information to share about the Sprinter 4x4 that I drove last week . . . :luxhello:

The conversion is done by The Sprinter Store, which is a part of Upscale Automotive in Tualatin, Oregon. The Sprinter Store, through owner and Sprinter guru John Bendit, has been improving the North American Sprinters since they started arriving and has supplied many of the accessory parts and modifications we run on our trucks. In particular, the suspension parts from The Sprinter Store do wonders for the handling of the vans compared to stock, and hundreds of us have profitted from those mods.

As Chip pointed out, the conversion is that of Sportsvans of South Africa. Businesswise, The Sprinter Store is the North American representative and installer of the the Sportsvan conversions, and the principals of Sportsvans were in Oregon during the conversion to make sure all went well with the additional work needed to make things work on the North American truck. (Which, as an aside, has about a zillion differences from the "world" truck . . . lots of them for pretty obscure reasons.)

John has just now gotten their website updated with all the conversion information, so just go to:

http://sprinterstore.com/sprinter_4x4.htm

for the story, along with pictures like this:

and links to videos of us playing in the woods.

However, for efficiency, I don't think John will mind if I cherry-pick some of the information off of the website to give here:

-- The conversion for the T1N Sprinters is available now. Conversions for the newer model Sprinters should be available the 1st quarter of 2009.

-- You get to choose between permanent 4wd, permanent 4wd with low range, selectable 4wd and selectable 4wd with low range. The rear diff lock will work with any of these configurations. Personally, I'd want the low range; the gearing for our trail run--done mostly in low range--seemed very appropriate.

-- Ride height with 245/75x16 tires is up about 4 inches. Ground clearance is 9.0" at front cross-member, 11.5" at the transfer case and 9.75" at the rear diff. (And as data in the ongoing "biggest tire for a Sprinter" discussion: these 30.7 inch tall BFG mud terrains did require front wheel well trimming; note that my 215/85x16 Bridgestone ATs, also 30.7 inches tall, did not.)

-- The transmission and transfer case selection functions are air operated, the air supplied by a small compressor located under the drivers seat.

-- The fuel tank gets replaced with a tank that has a recessed area to allow clearance for the transfer case. An optional extended range fuel tank will be offered in the future. The Sportsvan people say you can expect a fuel economy loss of 2-3mpg.

There's a bunch more technical information on the website that's worth looking into if you have any interest, along with an explanation of what costs what.

Also of interest is that the van got some play time in the sand later last week at the Oregon Coast and did well. I'll post up pictures if I get any.

As I mentioned after my trail run, this Sprinter drove pretty much like any other Sprinter, and it's worth stressing the reason (which I can do now) . . . this conversion is essentially the full-on OEM 4x4 system. There aren't any Ford or Dana or New Venture components here; the Sportsvan conversion is done from all beautiful shiny new parts. The huge benefit, of course, is that it's all stuff engineered for the Sprinter in the first place, and so it works right with the traction control, anti-skid, ABS and other electronic stuff. This engineering also caries over to the crash protection, where this conversion is designed so the front sub-frame assembly will collapse and move out of the way in the event of a severe accident, just like it's supposed to. The fuel tank is replaced with the 4x4 version that has a cut-out for proper spacing from the transfer case so the fuel tank is less likely to fail in an accident. All in all, I think that with this system, it's not so much that you get a Sprinter "converted" to 4WD; it's more that your Sprinter gets "reassembled" to be as it would have been had it come from the factory as a 4x4.

Maybe the biggest deal about doing it this way this that Sportsvan's conversion uses factory wheels mounting to the factory front hubs and rear axles and everything stays in the same location as the factory designed it. No wheel spacers, no change in track or wheelbase, etc. The only change was the increased ride height and it did not seem to be enough to cause any handling issues in my on-pavement drive.

As I said right after I drove it, I think this conversion makes the Sprinter an especially viable overlanding vehicle. I know that my own Sprinter van, as equipped, is excellent in all circumstances except situations where 4WD is a necessity, and this conversion would eliminate that shortcoming with no apparent disadvantages. The conversion's availability also means that there's now a good alternative to the E-350 based 4x4 Sportsmobiles. (And having driven both, I'll tell you that choosing which one you'd prefer wouldn't be hard . . . the trucks are nothing alike, so after driving each for five minutes you wouldn't have any trouble deciding which one better suited you.)

One last thing . . . I need to give a giant shout out to Tom Tasso, whose truck received the first conversion. While a lot of us--especially me--spent our time moaning about how we couldn't have 4WD on our Sprinters and wasn't it a shame nothing could be done, Tom was like a bloodhound in tracking down the necessary information, talking to the right people, not giving up when obstacles arose and, finally, using his truck and money for the prototype that brought Upscale and the Sportsvan people together so that we all can now have this high-grade conversion. So if you ever, someday, find yourself in the middle-of-nowhere, having a beer while sitting all comfy your Sprinter 4x4 camper, be sure to drink a toast to Tom for his remarkable efforts. :bowdown:

 

[4Rescue]

Betcha can't guess what I did today . . .

Went out this morning in my ex-AdventureDuo LC80 on a trail run into the Tillamook State Forest as the chase truck for a fully functional, US-legal Sprinter 4x4 T1N prototype. Got to drive the Sprinter around, too.

The Sprinter worked well throughout the trip, going quite a few places where my 2WD Sprinter would have gotten seriously stuck. There were, in particular, areas of substantial mud where the combination of aggressive Toyo mud-terrains and the 4WD really paid off . . . no wheelspin at all. And unlike some of the earlier abortive conversions, this rig has a true hi/lo transfer case, which helped it crawl up some pretty steep terrain without relying on high revs and momentum.

Equally important was the on-pavement ride and handling, which was impressively normal at speed, not at all tippy or scary. The conversion uses lots of Mercedes components, down to the dashboard switches, and the integration was outstanding. There wasn't any of the kludgey, mismatched parts feeling that sometimes comes from swapping out driveline and suspension parts.

All in all, for those of us waiting for somebody to make off-roaders out of the NAFTA Sprinters . . . well, it's been a few years wait, but we're about there.

Need some more details? Yeah, me, too. I'll take responsibility for passing on information as specifications become final and things like cost, sourcing and availability get firmed up. For the moment, though, I thought it was important to let everyone on ExPo know that it was looking like the biggest strike against the Sprinter as a North American-based overlander was about to go away.

Holy WOW, I would have loved to be downa t TSF to see this thing eh.

Question: how's the power of these rigs? Could they tow a trailer with a few roafts and gear on it? A few friends and myself are really considering throwing down and buying one of these and making it our long-haul rafting rig. We figure we could set it up to we could bunk 4 of us inside and would make for a really good long hauler in terms of comfort and economy. 4WD would simply sweeten the pot.

Cheers from a fellow Portlander

Dave

Good report. I miss that gas station and those trails.

Boy there seems to be more curent and former Oregon folk on this board than I thought...

 

[HINO SG]

The availability of new 1st generation Sprinters must be somewhere between limited and nonexistant.
Any thoughts on the specifications (milage/condition) for the conversion vehicle?

Couldn't find anything on the website.

 

[mhiscox]

Question: how's the power of these rigs? Could they tow a trailer with a few roafts and gear on it? A few friends and myself are really considering throwing down and buying one of these and making it our long-haul rafting rig. We figure we could set it up to we could bunk 4 of us inside and would make for a really good long hauler in terms of comfort and economy. 4WD would simply sweeten the pot.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the Sprinter inline 5-cylinder diesel is a sweetheart of an engine, with "power" all out of proportion to it's 154 hp rating and lots of examples of 300-500K miles before major engine work, and reports of consistent 20-25 mpg fuel economy. The V-6 diesel in the newer, NV3 version is smoother and drives less "trucklike," but appears to be down a couple mpg compared to the five. The V-6 hasn't had major reported problems, but hasn't been around long enough to get the same reputation for reliability.

But it's still not a big 'mericun V-8. One way to help, though, is to splice the adjustable diesel tuning module that The Sprinter Store sells into the engine computer. I (and many others) have done this and found it to be a very useful modification and the biggest advantage shows up on hills and when towing. My Sprinter, at 8500 pounds, is as heavy as a SRW unit can be. On my first, no module, trip across I-80 in Wyoming, the Sprinter took most of the big grades in the low 50s in third gear. After the module, the same grades were upper 50s and fourth gear, more often than not.

So it's not a powerhouse, but it is pretty capable (with the towing capacity never less than 5K and up to 7.5K on some versions) and would likely do the trick if you weren't expecting too much speed. By way of comparison, my Sprinter is considerably quicker than my 7000 pounds of Series 80 Land Cruiser, but not as quick as my 7000 pounds of regeared EarthRoamer Jeep Wrangler.

In any event, my experience is that most all Sprinter owners are very fond of their trucks, so I'd encourage you to look into getting one. It's undoubtedly the easiest van to drive (largely from it's narrowness), has by far the best seating position, and you can stand up in them, which is a huge advantage.

 

[mhiscox]

The availability of new 1st generation Sprinters must be somewhere between limited and nonexistant. Any thoughts on the specifications (milage/condition) for the conversion vehicle?

Ah ha. You've found one of the most interesting things about the T1N Sprinters . . . they don't wear out much and they're not widely put up for sale and, as a result, their resale value is exceptional. They come up from time to time, through eBay and on the sprintervan group at Yahoo, and if anyone needs to locate one, PM me and I'd be glad to post to the Sprinter lists to find one.

The important related point is that I wouldn't hesitate to spend the money converting a well-looked after 100-200K mile example to 4WD. With the engines lasting so well and the van's parts proving to have good integrity, there's tons of miles left in well-cared-for used versions.

The more interesting question is whether to convert a 2002-2006 5-cylinder or a 2007-on V-6. The two trucks are really quite different in everything from styling to cabin design and I don't think there's any consensus yet on which is "better." Certainly the newer ones are considered more sophisticated, but the older ones have considerable merit to them and are going to be cheaper. Try to get a chance to drive both of them and decide which on appeals to you more.