Flippac torsion bar delete modification.

[Camelfilter]

Flippac torsion bar delete modification. My torsion bar is still functional, so this is more of a how-to-in progress...

Many thanks to other users, especially Rhino & Timber, much of this modification is simply copying them.

Here's some nice pictures of Timbers modification, see post #34.

Parts & supplies I used:

6 ball joint quick disconnect sets from Midwest Control, part# SQI312. Note that I only used 4 of the ball joint ends, so I have 2 spares, and only 5 of the quick disconnects, leaving 1 spare.

5 of these EMT connectors: Lowes Gampak 1/2-in NM/SE Connector Item #: 45744 | Model #: 49092

5 5/16 fine thread bolts.

4 5' 3/4" EMT conduit poles.

2 90* 2"x2" brackets.

3M 5200 marine silicone.

1/2" or 3/4" sheet metal screws.

Fender washers.

5/16 fine thread nuts.

1 conduit compression connector similar to this one. <--Edit 4/9/15: I've given up on using the connector to make a long push bar. The latest push bar I've cobbled together is just 2 different sized conduit bars, so that they slide inside each other fir stowage. To keep them "sturdy" for pushing up the top, I just drilled holes thru them which I fit pins into. Shortened for stowage it fits as a 3rd bar up where the original Flippac hammock is.

-----------------------------

I don't weld, a lot of the following would be easier/stronger if I did.

To mount the ball joint ends onto the Flippac, the FP was in the closed position. I used the 2"x2" 90* brackets I pre-drilled for the ball joint end & screwed them into the FP also using liberal 5200 silicone. I had pre-drilled the FP for the ball joint end also. I filled that hole with a bunch of 5200 also, so hopefully this ball joint end will not move/fail.

Better would have been to weld the ball joint end onto the bracket, best would have been to weld a nut onto the bracket.



I'm lucky in that my torsion bar is still working. To determine the support pole lengths & bottom ball joint mount locations I deployed my FP as normal and ran a pole out from the already installed ball joint ends.

I'm also lucky that I have an aftermarket front bumper. I was able to mount the bottom ball joints directly to the bumper. I drilled & tapped the hole, so the ball joint ends screw rite in. I did put a nut as a spacer, so my support arms better clear my fenders. Inside the bumper I added a fender washer as well as another nut.

Those lower ball joint ends are not going anywhere, and if something happens where they are pulled out, it's more than likely I have bigger problems! I do have the 2 spares anyways though.




For folks without an aftermarket bumper/stout OEM bumper I imagine there are still some options. One would be to run the support arms straight to the ground, then you wouldn't need the other ball joint ends nor quick connects. Your support poles would be longer though. Another option might be to mount the ball joint end through your fender-you'd have to reinforce it somehow though.

For my support arms I mounted the quick disconnects onto each end using the EMT connectors on each end. To get the quick disconnects onto the EMT connectors I popped out the rubber piece, then put a fine thread bolt thru the back. The quick disconnect then screwed rite onto the bolt. I used various washers on bolt to get it to fit well etc.

The EMT connector/quick disconnect "unit" I mounted to the EMT tubing using 5200 and a machine screw. Repeat on both ends of the support arms, and the end of the push bar.

***Note that the "units" have a little bit of play in them at the end of the bars. I'm likely going to try a different adhesive either an epoxy or perhaps e6000. Here's another point where welding would be super handy, just weld the bolt in or a nut & use a stud.

For my push bar the best that I've come up with so far is to use the compression connector to link a second EMT tube onto the tube with a disconnect "unit" on the other end. <--See edited note above 4/9/15

I tried using a plastic tube which slid over the EMT as an extension, but I found it too wobbly. Ideas are welcome especially in regards to what folks might use for there push bars.








--that's all for now I suppose--

 

[dman93]

I have similar parts on order, but went with 1/2" quick disconnects from McMasterCarr - bigger is better, right? Parts should be here in time for the install this weekend. I flipped mine open for the first time this weekend using the garage wall and second -story window method described in other posts, to get it just past vertical, then slowly lowering it with a strap while I backed away from the garage until the lid was fully horizontal. Dealing with the 90 degrees from vertical to fully open was a little tricky both opening and closing. Once near vertical it's of course easy to support, and closing it was a piece of cake- gravity did it's job but the tent fabric plus air compression inside the tent dampened its fall nicely. I'm concerned that the weight of the lid will still be difficult to handle even with a long lifting pole but we'll see soon. Will follow this thread with interest - thanks camelfilter for posting.

-dman93

 

[Camelfilter]

Your welcome, also many thanks to timber/rhino and others!

As far as the 1/2" quick disconnects, they will be super stout.

If anything I wish that I had gone with smaller ones as the ball joint ends I used are too large to fit a standard grommet over. I would like to install 2 grommets onto the end of my rain fly, then just slip the grommets over the ball ends. Flip open & fly is all set!

Without the grommets, I have a feeling deploying the fly without the torsion bar will be more challenging. It now takes me a couple attempts to deploy the fly so I hope to make it as easy as possible once I remove the torsion bar.

I "think" that I need to #5 grommets, which I've seen online for $1 ea. The standard grommets available everywhere (Home Depot, Lowes, Harbor Freight, Tractor Supply, Joanne's Fabric, Michaels, Walmart etc etc) are just a touch too small to fit over the ball end. I "think" they are #4's.

 

[dman93]

Friday update. I don't work Fridays so spent the day fabricating the brackets (I used 2x2x1/8" aluminum angle) and buying some more materials. I basically followed Camelfilter's, Rhino's and Timber's designs so I won't post pictures. A couple of comments:
- There's not much wood or metal behind the 'glass between the hold-down clips and the end of the lid. I used 4 screws in from the sides and 2 from the top (or bottom when the lid is flipped) to secure the angle. I used 1/2" quick disconnects and thought I would just drill a 3/4" hole (that's the diameter needed to fit the 1/2" hex nut I used to secure the ball stud to the angle) through the glass and through the wood behind and maybe the hole wouldn't go all the way through, depending on how much wood was behind the glass (so I'd effectively end up with a counterbore or blind hole, if that makes sense). Instead the spade drill I was using just plunged through a thin layer of glass and polyester. I probably should have used epoxy, but I just stuffed the hole with 5200 and used a generous amount of it to attach the angle, plus six #8 x 1" wood screws on each bracket, which seemed to bite OK.
- I threaded a nut over some 2" long 1/2" bolts and then threaded the bolts fully into the female ends of two quick-disconnects. I then ran the nuts back up to to bottom against the QD's. This spaced the hex heads of the bolt and the nut about 1" apart. I then pounded these into the end of two ~7' lengths of 3/4" EMT (the length of the hammock poles). The 3/4" hex on a 1/2" bolt or nut is a very tight fit into the ID of 3/4" EMT. It took many swings of a heavy sledgehammer to get the bolt with the additional nut fully seated but it feels very solid and the EMT didn't crack. in hindsight maybe I should have also used some JB Weld but it took many adjustments to get things seated and having to deal with gooey epoxy would have made it messy.
- OK, on to how it works ... one reasonably strong person pushing up with the 7' pole has no problem getting the lid near vertical. But even my 6'1" son felt that he could not control the lid as it moved over center with his arms fully extended over his head, and we didn't even try. I had picked up a 10' length of of 1" EMT which slips nicely over the 3/4" EMT. With the extra length, it was more manageable but still more than I felt I could handle on my own. The trick is to move quickly from pushing the lid up, to catching it from falling down too quickly when it flops over center. Lifting is easy, but when the lid starts to fall, you can't control it from the "far" side of the lid, so you have to move quickly. For example, let's say you're opening it up. Starting at the back, you lift and walk forward until the lid is just short of vertical. Then, as you push it forward, you have to jump quickly well ahead of the pivot point to catch it as its start falling. You have to stay on the loaded side of the pivot. Easier said than done. My young agile son did OK but I just couldn't get the hang of it. With two people, one person can lift and one can catch. And the poles need to be at least 8-9' long in my opinion so you're not reaching up to high.
- So in summary, making the hardware is easy, but the operator technique is trickier. With practice or in an emergency one person can do it but I need to practice more ...
- One more observation. Even without no torsion bar, my Flip-Pac lid did not droop forward much past horizontal even without the hood struts deployed. I had been worried about hanging on the lifting poles while deploying the hood struts but that's not an issue. I had even started out this experiment with a foam pad on the roof of the cab to support the lid but it was not needed ... as long as you lower the lid gently. I have a stock bumper which doesn't stick out far enough to use as a lid support, like Timber and Camelfilter have done, but I may be able to add brackets to my stock bumper and upgrade later.

Cheers - dman93

 

[Camelfilter]

Thanks for the update! Yeah, please post up if you end up finding more tricks in regards to deployement.

Good idea on nut/bolting the ball joint end to the bracket. That should spread the load out nice & even. I'll borrow that idea if I need to re-do mine.

As far as the top not going much beyond horizontal, that's great news. Maybe likely due to the tent/poles & how its fastened causing enough tension?

 

[dman93]

Some pictures and a few more comments.

Mounting brackets - I'd recommend locating them even further forward to get some wood behind the screws.Please, no comments about my messy sealing job. I had opened the 5200 and used some a few months back, and the tube had dried just enough that I had to cut it open to get the rest out. That stuff sticks to everything and it drips a while before it sets up too.

1/2" quick-disconnect inserted into 3/4" EMT. The bolt head is where my thumb is and a second nut is just at the end of the EMT. This is very secure with no added epoxy. It took many swings of a 5lb sledge to get it in that far. By the way, I found these sites very useful:
http://www.rondexter.com/professional/rigging/pipe_tube_conduit.htm
http://www.rondexter.com/professional/rigging/telescoping_pipe_and_tube.htm

I added an extension tube to each 7' pole using 1" EMT. Since the EMT came in 10' lengths, for now I just cut it in two and slid each 5' length up 4' and secured with a spring-clip, so overall length is 8'. I can shorten the extensions later to save some weight but the 4' overlap certainly makes the poles feel very stable.

This 8' length seems just about right for hoisting the lid up and over, but not so long it's cumbersome. I made two of these and with two people it was a piece of cake; with one, some care was still required to get a good grip before it went too far past the balance point. To stow the poles, I removed the pins and slide the extension up and the 1" EMT still fit fine in the hammock sleeves. Another nice thing about the 8' length - it can support the lid a few degrees above closure, so you can easily tuck in the tent material before letting it down the last foot. Of course, that will vary depending on the ride height of your truck. Mine is a stock Toyota T100. I didn't get a picture of the pole supporting the lid in the near-closed position, but the shot of it in front gives an idea of the length and angles.

I can't wait to go camping now! And thanks again to all who posted earlier and in other threads, not just for your ideas but also the motivation to get this done after 6 months of just using the Flip-Pac as a shell. By the way, I think the whole torsion bar design is flawed not just in execution (the bar is over-stressed and/or poorly heat-treated) but in concept. The constant load from the torsion bar when the unit is folded up is just unnecessary. I am a mechanical engineer although my skills are very rusty, but I ran a stress analysis based some guesses of the weight of the lid + part of the tent, and the stress on the torsion bar is almost 100,000 psi. With the proper factor of safety that means using a material with around 230KSi shear strength .... that's about 8x the strength of typical mild steel. Any flaw in the heat treatment, or insufficient hardening, will lead to failure. The torque is around 4400 in-lbs, which (simplifying a bit) means there's always a load of about 2000 lbs on the attachment point to the camper a few inches from the pivot axis. No wonder they fail.

-dman93

 

[RHINO]

cool to see some others taking the plunge and going torsion bar-less.

 

[Dave Bennett]

Hmmm... interesting

 

[dman93]

Update

I finally camped in the flipped Flip-Pac two nights this weekend. Flipped it and un-flipped it and moved in-between sites. The first night I flipped it myself and it was a little tricky coming down. I'm glad I am diligent about putting a piece of 4" think ethafoam on the roof of the cab first - it took some load! The second night my wife and I were more in synch and it was easy with the two of us. The rest of the F-P experience was awesome. I just wanted to stress that the torsion-delete does require some care with one person unless you're a lot stronger than me. I'm "older" but fairly fit, but it's not that easy for me to balance 100 lbs 7' above my head and then lower it slowly. Still, I think the reliability of this mod makes it worthwhile.

-dman93

 

[Camelfilter]

Thanks for the info.

I have yet to complete my delete, but am pretty much all set for when I do (or if it breaks if I need to).

I usually carry a few foam blocks in my truck to help keep loads from rattling, I'll now remember to throw one on the roof!

Edit, adding: last week I fashioned up some EMT hangers to hold my load bars in place. I'll probably add another for my "push" bar, just to have it ready. They used to live in the back seat area, and were a hazard waiting to happen. My load bars won't fit inside the 1" EMT (the ones supplied by AT/FP) without some grinding of the end nuts. I just have to remember to watch my step climbing down, else I'll have some shaved ankles.





The hangers could also be mounted along the side rails by drilling the bottom hanger hole out to match the bolt that holds the FP to the bed.

Easiest/cleanest/safest is to have the load bars fit inside the 1" EMT though.

 

[David Wilson]

I just deleted my torsion bar. But I left the broken bar in place. Does anyone know if that will cause issues? Thanks for the great info on here.

 

[dman93]

Not sure how this would work ... how does the lid pivot on the side where you retained the broken bar? I removed all traces of the bar and pressed in bronze bushings on both sides, with stainless bolts held with NyLok nuts, as pivots.

 

[homemade]

Not sure how this would work ... how does the lid pivot on the side where you retained the broken bar? I removed all traces of the bar and pressed in bronze bushings on both sides, with stainless bolts held with NyLok nuts, as pivots.

Any progress with the gas spring(s) to assist opening?

 

[dman93]

Any progress with the gas spring(s) to assist opening?

I've been thinking about it a bit no real progress yet.