Land Cruiser 100 to Jeep Rubicon Unlimited: Capability? Comfort?

[KlausVanWinkle]

*An update on this debate is here.

*I started a build thread for the Jeep I ended up buying here.

I'm considering making the switch from my modified 100-Series Land Cruiser to a new JK Rubicon Unlimited. But I want to make sure that a mostly stock Rubicon can still do all the trails we can currently do and then some.

I'm assuming that a stock Rubicon would be at least as capable as my 100 that's running a 2.5" lift, 33.5" tires, center locker, rear ARB air locker, traction control, Slee front bumper, rock sliders and a Warn VR10000 winch, custom drawers, bump it off road dual swing out rear bumper. Is that true?

VS

The 100 has a better break-over angle and better ground clearance but is worse in every other way.

My wife, dog and I like running expedition style trips like The Lost Coast, Mojave Road, Death Valley, (We want to go to) Baja. All of which the 100 is great for. But our favorite trips are long weekend trips to the mountains; Big Bear, CA trails, High Sierras, CA (Shaver Lake Area, Coyote Lake, Mirror Lake, Bald Mountain, etc), which the JK would be better for.

Plus at a stubborn 11mpg, the 100 is making getting away really expensive lately. And at 171K miles, 13 years old, and nearing 6000lbs, it's really in need of a complete refreshing underneath, new steering rack, 180k service, etc. I've been slowly restoring the 100 but I'm getting sick of spending all my free time restoring and not using the truck. Also, to take the 100 to the next level requires ARB air lockers front and rear, regearing to 4.88, body lift, wheels spacers, and new 35" tires. We're talking at least $6000 in mods. That's a lot to invest in a 13 year old vehicle you don't plan to keep forever (See 11mpg gas mileage). With both of us getting new higher paying jobs, I'm beginning to think paying $400/mo for a new Jeep might be worth it. I'd save $100 in gas per month alone. Plus my wife's always wanted a jeep and we do live in LA where a topless jeep makes sense most of the year.

But the Jeep would have to stay relatively stock for awhile, maybe until the stock tires wear out. But I'd want to at least replicate what my 100 has. We like to be equipped to be self sufficient for a week or so.

*I SIMPLIFID AND UPDATED THIS PLAN

So the build would come slowly and in 2 stages:

Stage 1: Armor and Cargo

• Beefier frame mounted rock sliders
• Skid plates as needed
• AEV rear tire carrier
• AEV fuel caddy
• AEV highlift mount
• Trasharoo
• Front runner cargo slide
• Dual Battery system
• CB & 2M Ham radio
• Front runner shelf
• Rear AirLift Airbag suspension to handle cargo weight.
• A tailgate table.
• AEV or ARB front bumper for protection*

*I totalled a 100-Series in a low speed off road accident and don't want to repeat that experience).

Stage 2: Lift and 35s

• Regear to 4.88 or larger
• Run 35" tires
• Switch to 2-3" lift

Basically this minus the Hemi:

View attachment 168509


With the Stage 1 mods listed above, do you think a Rubicon Unlimited would be at least as trail capable and expedition ready as my current 100 series?

 

[KlausVanWinkle]

Comfort?

The long term goal would be to be able to run harder trails like Coyote,Spanish, Swamp Lake, the rubicon trail, the miller jeep trail, without risking as much doy damage as I would in a big truck like a 100, while still being comfortable enough for 1500mile long trips.

IFS vs a live axle, IFS is always going to win for comfort. But with a hard top, heated leather seats and auto climate control, I'd imagine the Rubicon would be more than tolerable. Thoughts?

 

[Grasslakeron]

Go for a 2006 jeep LJ. Great all the way around. Prices are also good right now and the drivetrain is awesome.

Ron

 

[KlausVanWinkle]

We need 4 doors and will face enough of a challenge going from 90+full roof rack of storage to just 75 kind of awkwardly spaced cubic feet.

I did see a really nice looking flat tan LJ with white steel wheels the other day. But I doubt those have the comfort, capacity and efficiency to replace the 100.

 

[rjl]

I have owned an 80 series, an LX-470, a Discovery I, a Scout, two Jeep Cherokees, a Jeep Grand Cherokee, an FJ-60, and an FJ-40.

Of them all, only the 470 was more comfortable than my current JK unlimited, but only very slightly. The JK is phenomenally more comfortable than most any other solid axle vehicle I have ever owned, and significantly more comfortable than the 80 (both when I had it with its stock suspension and OME lifted).

 

[just eric]

I own a 2012 JKU and encourage you to consider cargo capacity. Trips longer than a day or two with a wife and toddler (think pack and play) have tested my organizational skills.

 

[NFRs2000NYC]

You will love an unlimited. I suggest you look at other companies besides AEV. While AEV makes great products, other companies make products that are just as good if not better. Do your research so that you get exactly what you want. Companies like LOD, Shrockworks, EVo Manufacturing (excellent armor) ExpeditionONE, etc all make fantastic stuff. The 4 door makes for an excellent overland rig when set up properly. The ride is also very comfortable, provided you do your research when it comes to lifts/components and such.

 

[Grasslakeron]

We need 4 doors and will face enough of a challenge going from 90+full roof rack of storage to just 75 kind of awkwardly spaced cubic feet.

I did see a really nice looking flat tan LJ with white steel wheels the other day. But I doubt those have the comfort, capacity and efficiency to replace the 100.

We take four people and our German short-hair with us on our long trips. Roof racks or hitch totes when we have to carry everything and the kitchen sink. The three of you shouldnt be a problem plus it gets close to 20 with 31's.

Ron

 

[redthies]

For capability, the Rubicon will be equal to or better than your Hundy. Although very comfortable (I have done numerous 3-4000 mile trips in our 2011 Rubi), the Landcruiser is likely better. My LX450 was better than the Rubicon. I would also look at aftermarket leather for your seats. The Jeep "leather" is very plastic-like in my opinion. AEV makes great stuff, but it is pricey. You can swap a set of Old Man Emu 2.5" coils in for $450. They ride way better than stock, and you can still run the rest of the stock suspension and tires until they wear out.

Long and the short of it, get the Jeep. You will love it.


Editing this 18 months later as I just sold my Rubicon and bought a lifted and locked 100. The LC has 130,000 more miles on it, and still drives waaaay better than the Jeep did! Consider me a hipocrit!

 

[haven]

" Plus my wife's always wanted a jeep..."

I think we have the answer right here.

 

[OttawaXJ]

Jeep is more capable, Land cruiser will be more reliable though.

-Thats coming from a HUGE jeep fanboy. Always owned them and always will, but I do have a major hate on for all these wannabe jeeps they make now, JK included.

 

[UnlimiDozer]

@NFRs2000NYC, outstanding pictures! So nice!

@KlausVanWinkle: My experience is not as broad as some others, having never owned the other vehicles to which you are comparing, but I do have Jeep experience going back over 30 years, and have a little over a year now on my JK Unlimited Rubicon. Haven has a great point; if a Jeep is something your wife has always wanted, then make her happy and I doubt you'll be disappointed with the decision.

The JKUR is a very capable platform in stock form. You probably know that one of the design criteria for the Rubicon models was that they be capable of running the Rubicon Trail in stock form. The Rubicon model gives you electric selectable lockers, which in the later model years have been very reliable, and a disconnect-able sway bar for better articulation in the rough stuff. A little lift will really help with the approach/breakover/departure angles (not that there is really a problem with the front and rear angles), as will the 35s you said you ultimately plan to run. The JK is not a luxury vehicle, but it has come a long way from my old 1980 CJ-7. The Saharas are very nice (by Jeep standards), but then you lose the extra capability of the Rubicon.

A couple of things have been stated or suggested in the posts above that my experience does not entirely agree with. The first is the mileage. I hear all the stories about "almost 20 MPG," or "better than 21 MPG," etc., and I have to wonder where their calculator was made. My BEST EVER mileage, in stock form, was 17.4 with a stiff tail wind (on the return trip I got 13.7 running into that same wind). This was on a 500 mile round trip down Hwy 101 from the Bay Area, to San Luis Obispo, and back -- pretty flat for the most part, and essentially all highway miles. I keep all my fuel-ups on Fuelly.com, so this is documented information and I can post a link if need be. Now maybe my 17.4 qualifies as "almost 20" in some people's minds, but not mine. Nor is that the norm. My lifetime average MPG is 13.9 but I drive primarily in-town miles and have made some mileage-impacting modifications I'll touch on later. Not disputing what was posted above; just saying I have not been able to duplicate it -- and I have tried. My JK has a soft top, an automatic (which I highly recommend!), and came from the factory with 4.10 gears. Maybe the other folks have 3.73s and or manual transmissions; don't know. Bottom line is that if you're thinking of an Unlimited for the mileage, DON'T. you might be one of the lucky ones who get better mileage than me, but if you depend on that you may be very disappointed.

Also, since you're starting essentially from scratch if you go with the Jeep, I would suggest sticking with the JK platform over the LJ mentioned above -- not because that's what I drive, but because there are solid technical reasons for that opinion. The OEM control arms on TJs and LJs are shorter than on the JK, so that if you lift them, you very quickly run into problems with geometry. That's why you don't see serious TJs or LJs without a long arm suspension. For all but the really hard-core rock crawlers, the longer control arms of the JK will provide more than adequate articulation at a moderate lift height, while giving a better ride and handling than the TJ/LJ platform. Can you build a capable and stable TJ/LJ? Absolutely. But the bottom line is you'll spend less on upgrading the vehicle with the JKU and have more space and better interior comfort in the process.

Suspension plays a huge role in ride comfort, but so does tire pressure. It's a package you're looking for and there may be a lot of ways to accomplish that but it will be far less expensive and frustrating if you buy from someone who has already done the R&D/testing. AEV has a great overlanding suspension, engineered as a package to work together -- and it does! My JKUR is now on AEV's Dual-Sport SC 4.5" suspension, on 37" MTR Kevlars, and just last week got a gear swap to 5.13s. I understand that's very likely "bigger" than you will want to go, but my point is to tell you that AEV delivers what they promise in terms of stability and component compatibility in their suspensions. The one area in which I have been less than impressed is in ride quality (don't mistake that for handling, they're not the same). But I'm usually running completely empty. AEV engineered that suspension to also have their heavier bumpers front and rear, corner armor, tire carrier, a winch, expedition equipment, etc. most of which mine does not yet have. However, when I load it up heavily to drive to a trail run the ride smooths right out, so I'm expecting the addition of some of those pieces to improve the day-to-day ride.

I love my Jeep. I have loved the 4 doors ever since they came out, but am just now back into a family-size situation where I can live with 5 seats (4 kids, but now 2 are in college and a 3rd about to be in August ). In fact that's the reason I sold my CJ; the family outgrew it. I just couldn't squeeze 3 kids into the back seat! All that said, spend the time to do your research and be sure it will work for you in your situation. I believe you would be pleased. But it's you paying the bill.

Best regards (and sorry for the book!)

 

[Grasslakeron]

17.4 is what I get at 75 mph. My best tank is 20.4. To measure I pump it till I see at and it settles three times. Jeeps are made to be slow so you can enjoy the countryside.

Ron

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

If your goal is to run higher rated trails like the rubicon the jeep is a better choice. In everything else the 100 series is the clear winner IMO. Due to the age of your 100 series I would upgrade to a 2003+ to get the 5speed and 20% lower 1st gear. The next upgrade would be a 2006 and pick up a bunch of HP with the VVT motor. It is not uncommon to see a 100 series with 250K, I recently looked at one with 443K, find that in a jeep.

If you are seeing 11 MPG as a norm I would get your rig check out. I get the same pulling a 5000# boat with hills. No you will never get 28mpg but a 2003+ you will see better MPG then your 4speed model in my experience. The additional comfort over the jeep you will pay a premium at the pump but after 10 hour on and off the road it will be well worth it for you and your family.

There is no other vehicle I have found to compare the cooling system and the rear AC on a 100 series. My personal record was waiting at the AZ/Mexico border in 113° for 3 hours and the temp gauge never moved as we watch 50 vehicles some very new overheat. On a previous 45 mile Mexico beach run our group was stopped several times due to heat problems with jeeps(both trans and water), I ran my AC and never shut the 100 series off from start to finish.

I guess reading my post Its not hard to figure out Im bias but with good reason.:wings:

 

[KlausVanWinkle]

Jeep is more capable, Land cruiser will be more reliable though.

-Thats coming from a HUGE jeep fanboy. Always owned them and always will, but I do have a major hate on for all these wannabe jeeps they make now, JK included.

That was my thinking too. I trust the 100's 4.7L engine, probably one of the most reliable engines ever made. But a new jeep vs a 13 year old Toyota with 170k miles... idk.