ALSV Dune Buggys

jh504 · Feb 22, 2009

Does anyone have any military experience with the ALSV dune buggys? I dont know much about them but from what I can tell they are 4x4s with a rear engine and IFS. Anyone know how this setup works? Anyone got any technical specs on these things? They look like a tool that would be a pretty capable expedition rig for getting somewhere fast. I have always wanted to build a dune buggy but I shyed away from them because all the ones I knew of were 2 wheel drive only.

gjackson · Feb 22, 2009

Well the buggy in the pic you posted is 2wd. That's a Wright trailing arm front end based on what was originally put in the beetle. Was used in Baja for years.

Don't know if there are any 4wd buggies, but I'd be interested. Though if you see how Robby Gordon fared in Dakar against the 4wds I think 2wd with lots of suspension has fantastic merit.

cheers

jh504 · Feb 22, 2009

I think the one I posted the pic of is a UK issue buggy, I think this is one of ours http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/images/dpv_lsvbugg.jpg. I read a small article on our version, built by Chenowth Racing Products, and it said it was 4x4, but I dont know if that is accurate. I have been told by folks who have had buggys that 4x4 really didnt matter because the front end is so light. I wouldnt know Ive never dealt with one before.

cruiseroutfit · Feb 22, 2009

All I can think of is Pualy Shore & "In the Army Now"

24HOURSOFNEVADA · Feb 23, 2009

jh504 said:
I think the one I posted the pic of is a UK issue buggy, I think this is one of ours http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/images/dpv_lsvbugg.jpg. I read a small article on our version, built by Chenowth Racing Products, and it said it was 4x4, but I dont know if that is accurate. I have been told by folks who have had buggys that 4x4 really didnt matter because the front end is so light. I wouldnt know Ive never dealt with one before.

The one in your link is a Chenoweth. It's not 4 wheel drive and it's the same chassis as the picture you posted above. If you look close you can see the name Chenoweth on the front push bar. Chenoweth was a family business that has been supplying armed forces around the world with fast attack vehicles for a long time. They started out in the recreation/racing part of things.

I wouldn't let a dune buggy "Not being four wheel drive" deter you. Search around and you will find all kinds of information of Meyers Manx's/Toad's and Baja bugs running the Rubicon Trail back in the day.

Graham hit it on the head with the VW front beam on the pictured buggy. Four wheel drive on a BUGGY adds complication and weight. More things to break down.

ntsqd · Feb 23, 2009

Note my avatar. That picture was taken at Trukhaven Hills one News Years a long time ago. That buggy isn't even technically 2wd since it's an open differential. Steering brake systems can be used to make a "poor man's posi" and would be preferable to any sort of locking or limited slip diff since, as has been pointed out, the front end is rather light and steering would be nearly non-existent. On flat & level ground two guys can slide the front of my buggy sideways without too much effort. When all wadded up in some tight, technical section it usually takes three guys.

Overlanding in one would be a challenge in ultra light gear and minimalist packing. My buggy, with it's full length 10 gauge sheet floor, weighs about 1800 lbs net. In full trip trim it goes a little over 2k. With a few mods and all stock VW suspension parts it has about 8" of wheel travel at both ends. Articulation means nothing as all of the weight is on the rear tires and it is usually one of the fronts that is in the air. Usually a rear tire in the air is major pucker.

More pics of my buggy in action: http://s168.photobucket.com/albums/u196/ntsqd/Dune Buggy/
The early picture, parked against the tree, is ~1/4 of the way UP Thompson Hill on the Dusy-Irshim Trail. I drove in from the bottom. I didn't park it there deliberately, that is where I bounced to. Driving a buggy takes a fine balance of finesse and momentum. Over do either and you're likely stuck and possibly broken.

jh504 · Feb 23, 2009

24HOURSOFNEVADA said:
The one in your link is a Chenoweth. It's not 4 wheel drive and it's the same chassis as the picture you posted above. If you look close you can see the name Chenoweth on the front push bar. Chenoweth was a family business that has been supplying armed forces around the world with fast attack vehicles for a long time. They started out in the recreation/racing part of things.

I wouldn't let a dune buggy "Not being four wheel drive" deter you. Search around and you will find all kinds of information of Meyers Manx's/Toad's and Baja bugs running the Rubicon Trail back in the day.

Graham hit it on the head with the VW front beam on the pictured buggy. Four wheel drive on a BUGGY adds complication and weight. More things to break down.

I guess the article I was reading got it wrong. I was afraid of that, to outsiders anything driven offroad is called a 4x4 I guess. I can see how 4x4 wouldnt make much difference with the light weight of a buggy and the motor over the rearend.
I think it would be cool to have one to run fire roads and that sort of thing with.

ntsqd said:
Note my avatar. That picture was taken at Trukhaven Hills one News Years a long time ago. That buggy isn't even technically 2wd since it's an open differential. Steering brake systems can be used to make a "poor man's posi" and would be preferable to any sort of locking or limited slip diff since, as has been pointed out, the front end is rather light and steering would be nearly non-existent. On flat & level ground two guys can slide the front of my buggy sideways without too much effort. When all wadded up in some tight, technical section it usually takes three guys.

Overlanding in one would be a challenge in ultra light gear and minimalist packing. My buggy, with it's full length 10 gauge sheet floor, weighs about 1800 lbs net. In full trip trim it goes a little over 2k. With a few mods and all stock VW suspension parts it has about 8" of wheel travel at both ends. Articulation means nothing as all of the weight is on the rear tires and it is usually one of the fronts that is in the air. Usually a rear tire in the air is major pucker.

More pics of my buggy in action: http://s168.photobucket.com/albums/u.../Dune Buggy/
The early picture, parked against the tree, is ~1/4 of the way UP Thompson Hill on the Dusy-Irshim Trail. I drove in from the bottom. I didn't park it there deliberately, that is where I bounced to. Driving a buggy takes a fine balance of finesse and momentum. Over do either and you're likely stuck and possibly broken.

You are really making me want to build one now with all those photos. Those are some pretty hairy spots you have that thing in.

ntsqd · Feb 23, 2009

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewforum.php?f=28

jh504 · Feb 23, 2009

Thanks for that link, lots of good info there.
My wife and I are planning on moving in a couple of months and hopefully after that I can get started on a new project. I think an expedition buggy would be a cool build. From looking at the LSVs I think it could be done and would be something that is a change in pace from the normal. Of course it wouldnt be the ideal expedition rig, but thats what my Toyota is for.
Here in NC there are some good opportunities to use something like that. We have a lot of sand in the East and miles of FS roads in the West.
Here is another link I found with some good pics.

http://images.google.com/imgres?img...buggy+iraq&start=198&gbv=2&ndsp=18&hl=en&sa=N

whatcharterboat · Feb 23, 2009

This is just my 2 cents worth but I would think that as an ExPo style rig the key to using a 2wd buggy would be keeping weight to an absolute minmum. Almost like what you take on 2 wheels and everything would also have to loaded at the rear as well. I had a 72 VW Kombi ute (pickup in the US) many years ago that I set up for Round Oz travelling and I found that as long as everthing was loaded over or behind the rear axle it was extremely capable offroad and in sand especially. It also had 31.5" x 15" tyres which made an enormous difference. BTW instead of a bed I ran a hammock between the roll cage to save weight. The things you do when your young and stupid.

Our Miiltary don't run buggies or Hummers prefering conventional Landrovers from the begining but our Special Forces run Long Range Patrol Vehicles made here which are sort of buggy style but with an incredible load capability because of the 6x6. Google LRPV if you want to see more pics.

I think most of these were shot in Afghanistan recently.

Of course most of pics were shot in Afghanistan recently Those SAS guys always got their faces covered too. Must be camera shy.

jh504 · Feb 23, 2009

whatcharterboat said:
This is just my 2 cents worth but I would think that as an ExPo style rig the key to using a 2wd buggy would be keeping weight to an absolute minmum. Almost like what you take on 2 wheels and everything would also have to loaded at the rear as well.

Yeah, I think a few backpacks and maybe a storage compartment over the motor. Take a few lessons from the Dual Sport folks and you would be good to go.

greg mgm · Feb 23, 2009

A buggy or baja would make an awesome expo vehicle. Heck, if a dual sport motorcycle can hold enough gear for an off road adventure, then a buggy would hold more than enough.

Lee on the DSB site- http://dsb.yuku.com/directory

drives the blue buggy in the middle-

He drives his buggy all over So Cal packed with everything he needs for a weekend adventure.

This is my buggy-

Its a manx type, but I'm not sure of the manufacturer. The suspension is completely stock, but I'm still amazed how great it goes off road. Like was said before, it's the low weight and having most of the weight over the rear wheels which makes buggies go well off road.

My baja-

was built by Rory Chenowth and is based on the SV 16 buggy he used to build.
It has 16" of travel front and back, has A arm suspension front and back, disc brakes all around (rear discs are inboard) and rides smooooth. Although mine doesn't have a lot of room for gear, a baja can be set up for more storage, for a expo trip. Mine was built in '98 and has been ultra reliable.

I have to highly recommend getting a VW based off road car....but then again, I'm a bit biased. :wings:

EDIT- Almost forgot. Here's a buggy I saw in a parking lot at 6'th and Spring in downtown LA (I used to live at 5'th and Spring) The buggy was used in the film "Transformers" -

And the final buggy photo (lol)

jh504 · Feb 24, 2009

greg mgm said:
A buggy or baja would make an awesome expo vehicle. Heck, if a dual sport motorcycle can hold enough gear for an off road adventure, then a buggy would hold more than enough.

Lee on the DSB site- http://dsb.yuku.com/directory

drives the blue buggy in the middle-

He drives his buggy all over So Cal packed with everything he needs for a weekend adventure.

This is my buggy-

Its a manx type, but I'm not sure of the manufacturer. The suspension is completely stock, but I'm still amazed how great it goes off road. Like was said before, it's the low weight and having most of the weight over the rear wheels which makes buggies go well off road.

My baja-

was built by Rory Chenowth and is based on the SV 16 buggy he used to build.
It has 16" of travel front and back, has A arm suspension front and back, disc brakes all around (rear discs are inboard) and rides smooooth. Although mine doesn't have a lot of room for gear, a baja can be set up for more storage, for a expo trip. Mine was built in '98 and has been ultra reliable.

I have to highly recommend getting a VW based off road car....but then again, I'm a bit biased. :wings:

EDIT- Almost forgot. Here's a buggy I saw in a parking lot at 6'th and Spring in downtown LA (I used to live at 5'th and Spring) The buggy was used in the film "Transformers" -

Another vehicle used for that movie..not a buggy though-

The movie studio guys built the tank from the ground up. Cool job, huh?

And the final buggy photo (lol)

Nice Baja. Looks like you could get some serious travel out of that suspension.

Lynn · Feb 24, 2009

Seems like I saw pix of a prototype military buggy that was 4x4, but I have no idea where...

I agree with the undertone that a buggy is about light weight, but when it comes to lightweight 4x4s, I've always thought that the Volvo L3304 was pretty cool looking.

ntsqd · Feb 24, 2009

At one time I put considerable thought into how the make my buggy 4WD. It's possible, but there would be a whole bunch of one-off custom parts involved. The engineering-fabrication iteration sequence could be a nightmare.

With a 5.38 R&P mine has a crawl ratio of 22:1 and short of introducing a range splitter between the bus bell housing and the transaxle, with more custom one-off parts, that is about as low as a VW based power train is going to get.

Easier to keep it light and learn to drive it.

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