The Plan...

EDIT here is the link the post (a few posts down) which is basically a summary of the project vehicle:
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=294721#post294721



I thought I would post up here about my proposed project and I think as it comes together I'll ultimately use this thread as a buildup record... It is a bummer because it slightly puts my plans of resuming my 55 build back a little. The good news is it won't be a huge project, hopefully just a month or two with good active working on it of a couple of days or nights a week as winter is coming. Also a bummer because it looks like it will be a hell of a ski season.

As usual, the "complete train of thought" post, LOL...


Anyway, RE this sweet truck that is getting a lot of attention on the board:

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2008/11/sema-2008-tacom.html


The key is this


And I was even lucky enough to talk Chip into taking a couple pics of its attachment points on the long side of the radius arms...

Not sure if anyone is aware of what I'm getting at here...

Did he happen to get any pics of the steering setup or the panhard?

Anyway, here is a photo of my current mini truck. It was sort of a little experiment as I never actually owned a Toyota mini truck and it is my childhood favorite vehicle of all time basically fulfilling my 16-year old dream. That said I love it and I have really liked how well it's performed.... I have pretty much only owned and wheeled Land Cruisers previously and never ventured over to pickup trucks/4 Runners.



Originally this was going to be the donor but now beginning to recognize that it actually is a little limited, its little age/mileage quirks are starting to catch up with it (243k miles! ).

It is pretty much a bare-bones setup: It is a '89 3.0L V6 that came with Downey Headers, a Gibson free lowing cat-back exhaust, and a K&N. I never thought these things did any good but it actually has tons of pep and is not a "3.slow" as most people call them. These things actually make a difference on this engine. It also had a body lift.

The only things I have really done to it are mechanical (I bought it super cheap as a basket case) are maintenance related. New exhaust gaskets (OEM), timing, tuneup etc. The front diff was blown (common problem), and then mild suspension lift: Old Man Emu in the rear and 1.5" ball joint spacers up front. I was going to pull out the cheezy body lift but its height has grown on me and it's a great DDer. It handles very well and even corners and tows halfway decent and the body lift is nice for uptravel clearance. It is a great "baja truck" but not much of a wheeler beyond mild stuff.

But one day I had an epiphany...

(drumroll... )


























I have had this truck for a few months storing it for a friend not really sure what to do with it. The engine had the typical V6 valve issues so my good friend who is also an amateur mechanic (and a good one) replaced the head gaskets and completely rebuilt the heads. He was an engineer for Smith here in Utah developing sunglass lenses and was scooped up by another company in Burlington VT midway into the rebuild. He managed to just barely get it back together before he had to move away. It is just barely starting with lots of little things left to do.

I didn't really want to touch it and it's a shame because we would have had to sell it well below what it's worth. Bummer too because it also happens to be nice and fairly low mileage, nice and tight in almost all respects, and oh, not a peep of rust

So I decided to acquire this truck and use it for this project...




It does need some work though, for example here is the interior. Still largely left from whatever he was doing in the interior (I believe trying to find and replace the computer and install a remote start switch)...

I was kind of hoping that you had a plan to get the McFly mobile in the show pics:sombrero:

THE ENGINE: The Mercedes OM617

I build websites on the site and have been helping Luke at 4x4labs build his new site (still under construction) and as usual in exchange for some tradeout...

Luke not only happens to make the best hi steer kit out there on the market (as well as other sweet steering components) but is also a raging diesel fanatic and is finally producing his new Mercedes adapter. The first is a GM pattern with a standard but he plans to produce a slew of adapters eventually... More info here: http://www.4x4labs.com/dieselconversions.shtml (there are also photos of his FJ40 running with the Benz engine).

I have owned this engine in a Benz 300D (it original application) and not only did it have 340K miles when sold and still very strong, but it also powers them very well and they are good heavy cars at about 4500lbs I think. I have always thought that a mini truck would be the perfect application but there was no adapter at the time...

Here is a photo of the engine in Luke's FJ40:

The Suspension...

And finally the IFS. The red truck has largely been my guinea pig with both IFS and the pickup trucks and I have literally put as little as possible into to still make it a basic light wheeler and of DD duty. I did have a break on Rose Garden Hill earlier this year (I'm going to run up to the upstairs computer and edit this thread in a sec to add all of those pics). I actually liked IFS a lot and I am a little envious of you Tacoma guys with your IFS. I like the mini truck style IFS and nothing wrong with the torsion bar style suspension. And it is nice and cheap to use and easy to modify/lift (sometimes just adjusting a nut). But the steering sucks, the axles are weak, and the diff is weak too, and finally at my lift (2" of suspension lift) I could only get 2" of drop (and 6-8" up travel - fun for Baja driving but not wheeling) because of CV joint bind. This (along with the strength of solid axle and ease of install) are why SAS swaps are so common.

So, I could put a lot of money into the IFS but never mind. But, the issue with SAS with leafs is the performance. I'm right back to an old Land Cruiser with rattly-*** performance. Good articulation but hauling *** on dirt roads (which the mini truck is currently just kills it at, it's even gotten a little air here and there ) and that is a big drawback. But it is the easy/cheap way to do it. But I also hear that it is hard ot have a low lift with leafs too.. So I asked the experts about this too.

I'm was having some of the same dillemmas with my FJ55 (which has become a multi-year project) but have grown to like FJ80-style radius arms and suspension and especially their performance. So this is where the white truck posted above comes back into conversation...

At first I was going to try to source some cut-offs from 80 series axles. This thread just happened to show up a couple days completing the idea that I'm not the only person thinking this. This is also a hell of a setup: http://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/244530-fj80-axle-coil-swap.html

But there are some limitations to using actual FJ80 coil parts (other than the radious arms). For my FJ55 project it will be killer but not for this project because they are too wide.

But for this it will need to be a little more custom (but no more custom than the 80 axle on the 60 posted above) but I want a little more flexbility.. And I wanted smaller (width-wise) coil springs than FJ80 springs.

I stumbled upon Ballistic Fab's site and boy do they made some killer stuff for coil spring conversions... http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/Coil-suspension-parts_c_32-1.html

For example (photos below).

Solves the problem!

The Axle

So the conclusion on the front axle and suspension is a FJ62 axle, rather than the common mini truck axle...

This lets me not have to use a 8" front diff with wheel spacers (which I dislike as discussed here).. Luke also casually mentioned it should move the pumpkin over to the right and position the axle itself nice and forward for the Benz conversion which may have some oil pan interference issues. I like that (and hope it's true )...

It also keeps the 4.11 rear axle ratio (now that I think about it, I hope it's a rear ratio is 4.10 which I forgot to check). But the good news is most e-locked Tacoma diffs also happen to have 4.10 gear ratios as well

Transmission-wise, currently it's an auto. That actually introduced a couple neat little little bonuses. It will be a slight PITA because I'll have to replace the transmission (I hate autos, so it'll be glad to see it go) and at first I thought it presented not that big a deal as I'm still trying to figure out it's gearing situation...

At first I thought a simple 4.7 gear ratio in the t-case. That would require a 4cyl transmission (G52) with a weaker 21 spline output, or a R150 or R151 transmission (V6, stronger, 23 spline) output with a $299 adapter to a gear driven case as the gears don't work in a 23 spline V6 t-case as they are chain driven. There is a rare turbo 4 cyl that is a close variant of the V6 23 spline t-case, except it has a 4cyl bolt pattern on the back and also uses a gear-driven case. This is a sweet setup, but it is rare (and expensive), and you can basically buy your way to it via Marlin Crawler and the imitation companies now riding their coat tails some of which with products all the way from China (hehem, Trail Gear).

So I started considering a a doubler at the advice of DMC (here on the board and in the TLCA and a fellow member of WCs as well) as he suggested in the initial creation/concept thread of this truck/idea. Similar prices for the doubler, I would have to acquire two t-cases (I just acquired one for $60! -- I love how cheap minitruck stuff is) but to get up to 23 spline across the board is about $600 more I figure. Not sure if it's worth it, so I also asked the experts about this.

Basically the conclusion is it doesn't matter. So this is still up in the air and we'll see what happens. I have at least a month or two before I receive the diesel adapter so I have time to figure it out... I am currently leaning towards completely stock trans/gearing and maybe a locker at first, and that may even be optional and I'll improve/change this stuff as required. But it is on my mind..

The auto trans in the truck brings about some other interesting perfectly-fitting little quirks such as the _lack_ of a tachometer. This is actually a good thing as this one little thing is a ***** to replicate with a diesel (and tachs are tuned to number of cyls, so switching from 6 cyl to 5 cyl also makes it a PITA). So it is actually good that this truck is so stripped down:



To add some more gauges, I'll actually do just that, add some aftermarket gauge including this sweet diesel-application-designed tach from Autometer that works off any alternator that I've used a couple times now..

Other PITA stuff: basically the process of converting to stick. A new pedal setup (out of a standard truck, drilling the hole for the clutch-master), and there is a big hole in the middle where the trans was. We'll see how much of a PITA it is/becomes when I get the trans in. If it's major I'll weld up the holes and have to pull a carpet out of a standard trans extra-cab pickup. The good news is these things are all over the place in junk yards, the prices on them and their parts are just so damn cheap...

So finally... The Plan! Officially!

• 1991 Toyota Pickup, Extra Cab, 129k miles, rust free, fairly clean.
• Solid Front Axle Swap, using FJ62 front axle (increased width, strength, correct gearing for application). Using Ballistic Fab coil parts and hopefully (assuming I can make the application work) radius arms from a 80 series Land Cruiser.
• Old Man Emu Suspension, rear leafs (which are great from my current experience with my red truck), and TJ springs to match the Ballistic fab products up front. Either 2.5" or possibly 4" up front. More about this later when I get to it.
• 33x10.5x15 BFGs on some 7" rims I scored for $60 I'll post later
• Standard transmission. Probably an original 23 spline transmission from a V6 mini truck.
  --> adapted to OM617 via AA bellhousing adapter to GM V8... Adapted to GM V8 on the engine side via 4x4 Labs adapter, so two adapters...
• OM617 Mercedes Engine. A great little 5 cyl indirect turbo diesel from early 80's 300Ds. Gets about mid 20's MPG, reasonable power, not easily tweakable for more power unfortunately, but doable. A good free-flowing 3" exhaust (they usually use 2.5") will help and I might possibly do a nice new bigger turbo...

And that is it for the basics. All other accessories and bells and whistles will be covered after the fact...

Style and feel, old school Toyota, just like the truck in the first post. But then I realized this really is a '90's style slightly updated. So the plan is to accent this, and basically build a cosmetically similar truck to the first one, but in 1991 styling

My goal is fully running in three months. As many off the shelf parts as possible, or if not possible, incredibly heavy duty using common 4x4 technique: completely overbuild to prevent reliability issues. "Expedition Mantra" - by being custom, no loss of reliability whatsoever.

My goal is a good, quiet, tight and rust free turbo-diesel vehicle tough as nails with the solid front axle that hauls ***, wheels wheel, and will be a great DDer...


:beer:

Nice

That Tacoma is amazing - first time I have seen or heard of it. Chance in hell of getting it realeased on the market I am sure.

About that engine - I have seriously considered using Lukes adapter in my FJ40. I have a NP465 ready to go, but still trying to find a tight engine. Have you measured it yet? I was dinking around measuring my Tacoma for the hell of it and it didn't even look close to fitting. The older trucks must have more room, because I have seen two with the Merc engines on the internet. What would worry me a bit is the additional length imposed by the dual adapters. And it also seemed to me that the Merc engine is quite long for a 5-cyl.

How does the front of the 80 series frame compare to the mini?

The mini frame is dinkier unfortunately. Luke actually makes some laser cut frame plates for them, I'll have to check it out and see if it's needed espeicially with welding on coil buckets, etc...

The engine is a hair long because it's a 5 cyl. I don't think the mini truck has a bigger compartment in fact I'd guess it's smaller. There is a little cross member in the front of the body. There is one thread (it is really hoaky FYI) but I am trying to find it with little luck. He had to trim the front cross member and move the radiator forward which is very likely as well...

Here is the original conversion where he moved the radiator forward. It is annoying because the photos have disappeared mad: ) but here is a newer one by the same guy where it put a lot more work into a slightly newer swap. http://www.toyotadiesel.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5347

Looks like it is close. Again I planned to possibly move the radiator forward but we'll see when I get there.

Here is a different link showing moving the radiator forward...
http://www.toyotadiesel.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2516&highlight=mercedes

I'll make sure to document all of this very well for anyone else's records with whatever I end up doing...

shawkins said:

Did he happen to get any pics of the steering setup or the panhard?

Click to expand...

He did, here you go! (Looks to me like it also retained the FJ80 style panhard)

For the low dollar - high performance rear spring option I'd suggest looking into the GM 63" spring swap. Picture rear leaf springs almost as long as your bed. If dedicated it is a weekend project to convert a truck. Mostly depends on the rear shock mounting plan. Mine took longer because I'm slow & I built the spring plates to clear the most out-boarded shock mounting that I could come up with.

Nearly all of the Toyota based real pre-runners in LocosMocos use this instead of a Deaver spring. The springs are common in the junkyards and most 4X shops have take-offs from some lift kits. I got the bits needed to mount the springs from my old college buddy Trevor at WFO Concepts. I used the 3 longest leaves in the springs, and turned the original over-loads upside down. This provides a 'ramp' for the spring to roll onto rather than trying to kink at the spring perches.

I'd say that those springs are the second best mod that I've made to my '84. The first being dumping the Rauncho's that it came with and going to Bilsteins. I use Patch as a desert race chaser and sometimes pre-runner, live front axle and all. I can't keep up with a dedicated pre-runner, but I can stay with them 70-80% of the time.

Should be a neat truck.

dieselcruiserhead said:

At first I thought a simple 4.7 gear ratio. That would require a 4cyl transmission (G52) with a weaker 21 spline output or a R150 or R151 transmission (V6, stronger, 23 spline) output with a $299 adapter to a gear driven case as the gears don't work in a 23 spline V6 t-case as they are chain driven. There is a rare turbo 4 cyl that is a close variant of the V6 23 spline t-case, except it has a 4cyl bolt pattern on the back and also uses a gear-driven case.

Click to expand...

The turbo trucks used the R151F and V6 trucks use the R150F. The R151F is a hybrid, uses a 23-spline output but the bell housing bolts to a 22R. The turbo and regular trucks have the same transfer case, just that the gears are 23-spline in the turbo. You can make any 4-cylinder (RF-1A) transfer into a 23-spline and the bolt pattern is solved by the adapter.

The magically things about the turbo tranny is that it does not need the adapter to fit a gear-driven transfer and the bell housing fits a 22R block. The only thing that is really not solvable is the bell housing, if you want to put a R150F or R151F on a 22R, then you must have the turbo bell housing. Marlin's adapter solves mating a 23-spline case to a R150/151.

There is nothing really wrong with the 21-spline drivelines, this is not as big a difference as the 10-spline Cruiser axles verses 27-splines. Lots of people run Marlin Ultimates with 21-spline cases. If you were thinking of a 240d Mercedes, which is roughly the same as a 22R-E in power. You could just use a W56 (which Toyo used behind the 1KZ-TE, so it's plenty strong), or the G54, G52 or R150/151F.

But since you're thinking of the 300d, which is more like 175 ft-lb torque if you go with the turbo version, that might be a bit much for a G52. I would be thinking G54HD, or the R150/151F like you are. I would still think a W56 would be OK, certainly for the normally aspirated 300d.

And it is nice and cheap to use and easy to modify/lift (sometimes just adjusting a nut). But the steering sucks, the axles are weak, and the diff is weak too, and finally at my lift (2" of suspension lift) I could only get 2" of drop (and 6-8" up travel - fun for Baja driving but not wheeling) because of CV joint bind. This (along with the strength of solid axle and ease of install) are why SAS swaps are so common.

Click to expand...

I'm always amazed that I've pulled off the impossible, doing Rubicon, Rose Garden and some other stuff with out blowing a single CV or breaking a ball joint or tie rod. I did bend an idler arm years ago, but haven't had a steering issue since putting on the Total Chaos arm. I did knock my alignment off at the Rubithon, but the pull isn't bad and my tires have not developed any abnormal wear (I still have not aligned it since Rubithon in June). I'm even double locked with 5.29 axle and 4.7 t-case gears, so I'm torquing on the driveline pretty well.

I'm not commenting that a SAS is not fine, but I do think a lot of people jump on them before knowing what they need. You've broken your IFS and so you have a legit need, but a lot of people at Yotatech or whatever say the need a SAS and they haven't ever pushed their truck to really see if that's true. The wheel travel issue on rocks is a real advantage, although I can't complain with my IFS. I'm just running 1.5" ball joint spacers and worn out 25mm Sway-A-Way bars. I stuff the front wheel no problem and had to clearance the inside of my fenders. But I have the droop limited to avoid CV bind and so I get a useful 7~8" of travel at most.

BTW I run OME rear springs and I'm happy with them from a general purpose standpoint, but if you're cutting and welding anyway, you really should consider Chevy 63" springs. There is a huge difference. I'm running a total of 7 leafs (4 main and 3 overload) in my OME packs to support the weight of my camper and everything when loaded.