Hilift PullPal Adapter

Anyone seen this before? Is it something that hilift makes? (i dont see anything on their site)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Hi-L...001QQitemZ110254533269QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

Interesting. Don't know if i'd trust it with the weight of our rig.

That's pretty slick. Wouldn't work for me because my HiLift is my winch!

Hey! Thats one of the designs we worked up on here...

http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5207&highlight=pull+pal

How sad he had to resort to keyword spamming to list the product. Basically if it isn't a Pullpal brand winch anchor he can't use the word "pullpal" in his description. Just a heads up for any other Ebay sellers. It "uses" a Hilift backbone, but it isn't a Hilift product.

I'd say it's a poor design. When using a real PullPal, and depending on the terrain (loose sand for example), the spade often gets pulled way deep into the soil or sand. When that happens with this design, the working mechanisms of your hi-lift jack are going to be filled/jammed with sand or dirt.

TheRoadie said:

How sad he had to resort to keyword spamming to list the product. Basically if it isn't a Pullpal brand winch anchor he can't use the word "pullpal" in his description. Just a heads up for any other Ebay sellers. It "uses" a Hilift backbone, but it isn't a Hilift product.

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Agreed, I think the seller could have done a much better job not only detailing his own product, but the fact that Hi-Lift and Pull-Pal are trademarked products.

VikingVince said:

I'd say it's a poor design. When using a real PullPal, and depending on the terrain (loose sand for example), the spade often gets pulled way deep into the soil or sand. When that happens with this design, the working mechanisms of your hi-lift jack are going to be filled/jammed with sand or dirt.

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Agreed.. I don't know that the bottom of the hi-lift will every get that deep, I suppose its possible in really deep sand or mud, however I've never pulled my Pull-Pal in that deep.

I guess my biggest argument is "why", the standard Pull-Pal or knockoff 1-piece design is not too big to be stored. Its an answer looking for a problem that didn't really exist IMO. If the assembled Pull-Pall was too big, take the two bolts out and store it in pieces, easy enough. To have to compromise a second recovery device to create the first??

cruiseroutfit said:

To have to compromise a second recovery device to create the first??

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I haven't used a pullpall, but agree with your reasoning here.

Also, the HiLift beam is designed for compressive forces in a fairly controlled direction. It seems that this adapter would give the opportunity to twist and bend the beam in directions that it wasn't designed to go, with considerable force applied.

OTOH, for the DIY-type that wants to build a better mousetrap, or save money, using an old cultivator spade like this guy used seems like a good idea. Most farmers have several old ones laying around, or you could pick up a new one at a farm supply store pretty cheap.

cruiseroutfit said:

Agreed.. I don't know that the bottom of the hi-lift will every get that deep, I suppose its possible in really deep sand or mud, however I've never pulled my Pull-Pal in that deep.

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FWIW, I've only used my PullPal in loose sand and it gets completely buried...maybe a couple inches of the front sticking up...so that was my first reaction to this design and doing that to a hi-lift.

VikingVince said:

FWIW, I've only used my PullPal in loose sand and it gets completely buried...maybe a couple inches of the front sticking up...so that was my first reaction to this design and doing that to a hi-lift.

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Wow, in that case it would make absolutely no sense to be using your hi-lift. The locking mechanism sticks enough when its clean, let along full of sand

big sky trapper said:

Hey! Thats one of the designs we worked up on here...

http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5207&highlight=pull+pal

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I remember that thread. Looks like someone was paying attention....... and is trying to capitalize on it.

Lynn said:

Also, the HiLift beam is designed for compressive forces in a fairly controlled direction. It seems that this adapter would give the opportunity to twist and bend the beam in directions that it wasn't designed to go, with considerable force applied.

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Steel is best used in tension, not compression. To get good compressive strength the shape of the column needs careful consideration. All that matters in tension is how much cross sectional area there is. If a column will stand the load in a compressive direction it will more than stand the load in a tensile direction.



Having owned, and given away, two pull-pals I see great advantage in using something already existing in/on the vehicle for a similar device's main beam. Has the potential to save a huge amount of weight, which is why I gave away those pull-pals. Ever pick one up? They represent a LOT of beer/Popsicles/chocolate covered frozen bananas/whatever that I'd rather carry.
I would not, as shown on the auction page, use the hi-lift beam with the traveler still in place and expose it to even more grit. Popping the traveler off isn't that big a deal. Neither is replacing it.

ntsqd said:

...Steel is best used in tension, not compression. To get good compressive strength the shape of the column needs careful consideration. All that matters in tension is how much cross sectional area there is. If a column will stand the load in a compressive direction it will more than stand the load in a tensile direction.

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Besides the structural characteristics of steel in general, the Hi-Lift is/was designed to be used as a winch second to its use as a jack. While I can't say I've seen a rating for their beam as a winch device, its fair to say it will likely hold up just fine as used.

ntsqd said:

...Has the potential to save a huge amount of weight, which is why I gave away those pull-pals. Ever pick one up? They represent a LOT of beer/Popsicles/chocolate covered frozen bananas/whatever that I'd rather carry.

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Sure, the entire Pull-Pal represents a lot of weight, but I'd guess that the beam itself isn't going to save you more than 10lbs. Consider my complete Pull-Pall weights 34lbs, 36lbs with the case... add to that I don't carry a Hi-Lift (26lbs) rather a exhaust jack (15 lbs)... I'm at a net savings. Not that I'm honestly ever worried about 10 lbs in a 7500lb setup

ntsqd said:

Steel is best used in tension, not compression. To get good compressive strength the shape of the column needs careful consideration. All that matters in tension is how much cross sectional area there is. If a column will stand the load in a compressive direction it will more than stand the load in a tensile direction.

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Thanks for the info. You are apparently much more of a mechanical engineer than I am (I barely survived statics and dynamics 8 years ago, and have, fortunately, never had occasion to revisit those texts). I have to ask, though: isn't the potential load in the pulling scenario much greater than the potential load in the jacking scenario? Did you take that into account?

My instinct still tells me that it would be pretty easy to twist or bend the beam if the spade happened to dig in at an angle (other than perpendicular to the beam), like if it hit a rock, a hard spot in the ground, or if the vehicle happened to move sideways during the pull. I know from experience (read: misuse of a hilift jack) that it's not hard to bend a beam.

Should you damage it enough, then, like cruiseroutfit mentioned, you no longer have an anchor OR a jack.

Of course, if you travel with someone in a similarly-equipped vehicle, you have redundancy....

ntsqd said:

Having owned, and given away, two pull-pals I see great advantage in using something already existing in/on the vehicle for a similar device's main beam. Has the potential to save a huge amount of weight

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I certainly agree with the weight savings aspect. If you combine this device with one of those shovel/ax kits that use the hilift handle, then you could compound the savings.

Heck, maybe the spade on the pull-pall imitator could be designed to act as a shovel and hoe, as well. (I apologize if that was mentioned in the other thread, my work connection is rather slow right now, and it was taking too long to open, so I gave up.)

cruiseroutfit said:

Besides the structural characteristics of steel in general, the Hi-Lift is/was designed to be used as a winch second to its use as a jack. While I can't say I've seen a rating for their beam as a winch device, its fair to say it will likely hold up just fine as used.

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True, but its use as a winch is designed around the force that can be applied by a human on the handle, not by a 10,000# electric wench, right?

Also, hand winching would not side-load the beam the way that this pull-pall imitator potentially could.

Don't get me wrong, I love the idea, just need to be convinced on the engineering.

Lynn said:

True, but its use as a winch is designed around the force that can be applied by a human on the handle, not by a 10,000# electric wench, right?

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Well, as used by a single pull non-snatch blocked pull, 10k would be the extreme my particular unit would see. Assuming you were using the hi-lift as a winch under a normal scenario, it could see 10k however I doubt one would safely have the ability to even use the hi-lift on loads that hight. I've used one as a winch to pull a stranded Cruiser onto a flat bed trailer (up some 30* ramps). It was a severe amount of work just to do that, and I figure the load in that situation was well under 1k lbs.

Lynn said:

Also, hand winching would not side-load the beam the way that this pull-pall imitator potentially could.

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That is very much something to be concerned about, I've seen them begin to "bow" under heavy lifts... not unheard of to have them bend outright:

VikingVince said:

I'd say it's a poor design. When using a real PullPal, and depending on the terrain (loose sand for example), the spade often gets pulled way deep into the soil or sand. When that happens with this design, the working mechanisms of your hi-lift jack are going to be filled/jammed with sand or dirt.

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remove the working part off of the beam first?


The whole idea was to try to keep the impact of the total weight of the recovery gear as low as possible.