XPCamper goes out of business, files for bankruptcy?

Osmo79

New member
I genuinely believe that many fields entry level work could suffice with a 2 year degree or tech school rather than four year degree. It really seems to me some systemic changes need to take place to improve the outcomes of the system.

If I could go back and do it all again I don't think I'd do much different other than go union for the benefits and invest at least a bit of the money I spent on partying. Well, and I'd not nearly kill myself drunk driving that motorcycle at 30 years old. That was an expensive and painful life lesson that set me back more than a few years...
 

rruff

Explorer
I genuinely believe that many fields entry level work could suffice with a 2 year degree or tech school rather than four year degree. It really seems to me some systemic changes need to take place to improve the outcomes of the system.
A lot of places require a degree just as a weeding out process; they figure on average those with a degree are going to be better than those without. And these days they are right, just because the dregs are more likely to be in the less educated group.

I see a lot of laziness in employers complaining about the inability to hire. Seems that it was a lot more common in the past for employers to invest heavily in training employees. Nobody wants to do that now... instead they want someone experienced in the specific specialty they need, who they can discard as soon as the work dries up.
 

utherjorge

Observer
Unions are still the way to go, for many reasons. Naturally, my two cents.

I do think that a lot of handwringing is due to bad administration. How many bad bossess/bad workplaces have you been a part of. Hiring people effectively is a different skillset. Just as this thread showed that an idea is not enough to be successful in business, managing a schedule doesn't mean you can plan well or hire well. There is an awful lot that goes into an awful lot.
 

Bayou Boy

Adventurer
Unions were a necessity when the workforce was stuck in one place. Now that someone can easily and cheaply move to a better job or learn new skills and talents they are much less needed or wanted.

Now whether someone wants to actually get up and do the work to find a better opportunity is on them.

Unions are nonexistent in the oilfield due to that reason. Those guys have the mindset of moving where the opportunities are and making their own way. Apparently auto workers and similar would rather just strike than go find a better job.


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s.e.charles

Well-known member
Unions were a necessity …
a bit "black & white" but I do agree in the matter of personal initiative being a key to success. I think it's there if you want to seek and work for it. people want to walk into it without paying their dues. not union dues, but the "suck years" of low wage and poopy jobs until finding the right combination of enough experience to set themselves above the herd and an employer who recognizes that.

people can open a door for you, but it's the individual that has to deliver.

i have a friend who is in early retirement from owning a high-end painting company for 30 years (first 10 it wasn't high end - it was take every job to keep working to pay the electric bill - he grew it). i asked him about the hiring situation since he had a couple of different crews and they were comprised of diametrically opposed nationalities. he had tried hiring college kids for the summer, laid off school teachers, and every type in between.

his parting words: "would you rather hire someone who can't get from the parking lot to the job without looking at his smart phone, or a guy who got here across the desert with a baseball cap and a bottle of water?"

spoke fathoms about the American labor force.
 

utherjorge

Observer
Well, I know that's how it typically is...but at the same time, not all kids are glued to their phones, and promoting good behavior goes a long way to helping to stop that.

Without diving into my personal details too much, Unions are like so much else. It's easy to abuse the opportunities that they provide, but the same is true about so much else. So, do we get rid of it all (the many benefits that unions provide to all, like vacations, pay scales, etc) because of that abuse? I think human nature is for some to take advantage of all that they can instead of working as hard as they can...and unions can surely be an example of that.

Sadly, no matter what I think, or you think (Bayou, that is) I believe we're seeing the end of them as a whole...so we might just be arguing over deck chair placement on yonder Titanic...
 

Bayou Boy

Adventurer
You can get vacations without unions. My employees sure have them. And I believe in being paid more because you produce more value for the company, not for simply putting in time on the job and not being more productive than you were last year.

You want more money, make me more money than the guy next to you. You want more PTO, let’s talk about trading that for more productivity while you are here. I have a salesperson that just retired last month after 30 years. Every year recently she wanted her base raised but consistently her actual sales shrunk a little. Am I supposed to just pay her more even though I make less and less on her work? That’s not how this stuff works. That’s how it goes bankrupt.


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IdaSHO

IDACAMPER
You are, of course, entitled to your opinion.

The US Bureau of Labor Statistics publishes data on what particular jobs pay in different parts of the country.

The Occupational Employment Statistics (OES) program produces employment and wage estimates annually for over 800 occupations. These estimates are available for the nation as a whole, for individual states, and for metropolitan and nonmetropolitan areas; national occupational estimates for specific industries are also available. https://www.bls.gov/oes/

In our area, the average hourly wage for a welder is $21.87, and we are offering $20-25/hr.

Whether or not it is "**** pay" (and I don't think it is), it is what the local market pays for that position.
IMO, you cannot compare a position like this to averages.

This is a job in high visibility business in a highly volatile industry.
It should demand the best, if the business expects to produce the best.
Good pay would only make sense.

All that said, times are changing faster than ever, and statics only show the past.
With our current unemployment rates and lack of skilled labor, pay rates will need to readjust, or businesses will find positions unfilled.
 

Bayou Boy

Adventurer
When was that ever the case?
You are a guy in his 20s in rural wherever working at the mill/factory in the 1950s or 60s. Your father and uncles all work at the same mill. It sucks donkey... How are you going to just up and move somewhere else for a better opportunity? How do you know where to go? How do you get the skills to do something else? How do you know the opportunity will still be there when you get there?

Without that union, that same guy gets paid less and less for more and more work because the boss knows he has no other option.

The internet, online education, and cheap transportation fixes all of that. There is a reason young people all move away from towns like that. It's because now they can.
 

rruff

Explorer
You are a guy in his 20s in rural wherever working at the mill/factory in the 1950s or 60s. Your father and uncles all work at the same mill. It sucks donkey... There is a reason young people all move away from towns like that. It's because now they can.
They always could move away... you know cars, planes, trains etc were in common use by then? You didn't have to fight Indians across the prairie in a wagon train...

They didn't move in the past because they didn't have to and didn't want to. There was no point. The pay and benefits and job security were great. You could marry your HS sweetheart, buy a house, raise kids and send them to school, retire with a pension; surrounded by family and life-long friends. The American dream. Now it does in fact suck! You need to be a mercenary chasing whatever the "hot job" of the month happens to be (after you spend a few years getting trained for it), then when that tanks you chase another.

That is nothing new. Chasing opportunities has always paid better. The difference is that now it's the *only* thing that pays decent!
 

utherjorge

Observer
I just read something interesting maybe a month ago: 401ks are in beta: no one has ever needed to retire on them yet, because the whole process isn't really mature. That's hyperbole to a degree, but the guarantee of a pension (mine is guaranteed by a state constitution, but we got there due to a union) is very different from the "new hotness," 401ks. Will they hold up? And what will happen if they don't? Is everyone supposed to work until they are 85?

I don't mind the conversation though we are veering off topic. Simply put, around here, if you want to learn a trade, you'll always have good-paying work, and won't have to relocate unless you want to. But start ups here have no chance because there's no one doing tradework.

I shoulda been an electrician....
 

68camaro

Any River...Any Place
A lot of places require a degree just as a weeding out process; they figure on average those with a degree are going to be better than those without.
Correct, It used be be you needed at least a 2 year degree, now its 4 year degree Minimum, and many fields require advanced degrees that in my opinion are unnecessary, its called “degree inflation”. It’s an easy way to weed out applicants. For a lot of young adults, its a Total waste of time and money, depending on their major.
 

fireball

Explorer
Back on track: the worry here is that the new XPCamper will be no more successful than the founder if they don't pay their craftsman and laborers good wages. In their location, 20-25$ just ain't it.

I own a construction and renovation company. I pay top dollar in our area for excellent carpenters, and we/they product excellent, top-rate work and we are able to charge appropriately for it. It's pretty straightforward, and if the new XP wants to be succesful, they'll need to do the same.
 

AbleGuy

TeamSuicideChipmunks
Back on track: the worry here is that the new XPCamper will be no more successful than the founder if they don't pay their craftsman and laborers good wages. In their location, 20-25$ just ain't it.

I own a construction and renovation company. I pay top dollar in our area for excellent carpenters, and we/they product excellent, top-rate work and we are able to charge appropriately for it. It's pretty straightforward, and if the new XP wants to be succesful, they'll need to do the same.
And here’s the Catch 22 with that....if XP couldn’t make enough profit to stay in business previously while paying those supposedly lower wages (because the market was just too small for their hugely expensive campers?), how is the new company going to become profitable paying its craftsmen these higher, albeit necessary, wages?
 
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