Wide versus narrow tire for off road use. What says you?

scrubber3

Not really here
After purchasing my new tires, I got to thinking about an article that I read a few months ago that started me thinking about getting these skinnys. It made perfect sense. Here is a link:

http://www.expeditionswest.com/research/white_papers/tire_selection_rev1.html

What do you guys think?

Sorry if this thread has been written on here before. I just thought it would be a good read for us and to educate those who may be interested. New guys could use this information too.
 

off-roader

Expedition Leader
It really depends on your wheeling intensions. For me, I won't just be on easy trails and in many situations including hard core rock crawling trails where you'll want both the bigger footprint and added protection of wide tires. Just the other week on my Jan 1 hangover avoidance run I scraped my 10" wide rims because the 12.5" tires were simply not wide enough to protect them from the trail edge...
 

rxinhed

Dirt Guy
When I put 33s on my Nissan kingcab, I ran 9.5s in front and 12.5s in the rear. I liked the combo very much, gave the muscle truck appearance and provided enough traction on my geo-jobs. I still like the staggered appearance.
 

owhiting

Supporting Sponsor
skinny

I think it depends on your type of off-roading and the vehicle. The tires need to be proportional. I work on Jeeps and the new Jk's can pull off 35's or 37 pretty easy and not look goofy. I have been driving Land Rovers for years and run 255x85x16's and it just keeps things simple on the land rovers, wide wheels kill the turning radius and have rubbing issues and they fling stuff all down the side of the vehicle. I do not find any real benefit to wider tires for every day use, overland travel and even some of the technical stuff I get into.
 

scrubber3

Not really here
Did you read the section on off road contact pressure and its effects on adhesion? More and more rock crawlers are actually using narrower tires. I found this write up as well. To the point I must say

"Less rotating mass- Easier to start and stop
Less reciprocating mass- Easier to dampen
Less wind resistance- Better economy and range
Less rolling resistance- Better economy and range
Easier to fit a taller/narrower tire with less lift
Lighter spare
Lighter tire
Lighter wheel
Less unsprung weight
Less weight and leverage on steering components, bearings, etc.

In terrain:
1. Less frontal resistance in mud and sand. Where is most of the increased contact patch (for flotation) gained? In the length, not the width. Tall and narrow allows for more length and greater deformation with less resistance.

It is as simple as understanding the coefficient of friction (COF), which is (Ff = Cf x Fv).

Ff= Friction Force
Cf= Coefficient of Friction
Fv= Force Vertical

As you make a tire wider, you reduce the Fv over a larger area, but gain Cf. As you make a tire narrower, you increase the Fv, but reduce the area of contact, which lowers the Cf. It is proportional, though there are times when the material interaction (lets say a drag tire on concrete) favors Cf, but those conditions rarely exist on the trail, on a perfectly flat surface. So, if a wide and narrow tires benefits with relationship to Cf and Fv are proportional, than the decision must be made on other factors, like weight, resistance, etc., as listed above.

Now of course, there are limits at both ends of the spectrum. Too narrow of a tire, and the torque applied to the surface, even with extremely high Fv (which a super narrow tire would have), would exceed the rubbers ability to resist tearing. Literally, burning rubber.

It is all a balance, with tires for most of the trucks we drive being ideal in the 9-11" wide range.

Big, fat tires are only for show trucks and tundra buggies. An expedition vehicle has an emphasis on simplicity, economy, durability and safety, none of which a 35x14.5 will give you. . ."

I am quoting a post from some Portal archives I dug up. The #1 section there under terrain hit it on the nail.

I can see where you like the wider tires for added protection for the rims, but this is why I still have the narrow rims (and the fact that new rims=more money) LOL. My 7 inch rims have lots of protection from my 10.5 inch wides. I can also see where a wider tire can do better in the "cracks" and not high side you.

As you stated, it depends on your needs. And in all honesty the width of the 12.5 is still "narrow" enough to conform to most of the "points" made in the article keeping in mind the weight of a Montero. I would say the sweet spots for the Montero would have to be a 31/ 9.50 to a 35/ 12.50 tire and depending on needs and let's not forget the tires on those rigs from Iceland. I would have to say without a doubt that they need a crazy wide tire vertically and horizontally.
 
Last edited:

geocrasher

Observer
My next set of tires will be 33 10.50's or maybe 9.50's. I don't need wide, I need tall. I will be airing them down anyway so at the end of the day they won't be much taller than the aired up 30x9.50's I've got, and they'll ride smoother and have TONS more traction. Works for me.
 

scrubber3

Not really here
Coming from a 32x 11.5 I can tell you it is a world of difference for the better IMHO. Although the latter did work well for what I threw at it.
 
Just checked specs:
33x12.50 Goodyear Duratrac 49lbs 32.5" 2200lb load, tread width 10"
33x10.50 BFG KM2... 49lbs 32.8" 2600lb load, tread width 7.5"

The BFG KM2 12.50 width is 58lbs.

I'm going to stick with the 12.50s I do like the extra lateral stability on the hwy.
 

scrubber3

Not really here
Just checked specs:
33x12.50 Goodyear Duratrac 49lbs 32.5" 2200lb load, tread width 10"
33x10.50 BFG KM2... 49lbs 32.8" 2600lb load, tread width 7.5"

The BFG KM2 12.50 width is 58lbs.

I'm going to stick with the 12.50s I do like the extra lateral stability on the hwy.

I'm sorry if you told me before, what is the width of the rims you are running?
 

scrubber3

Not really here
A 12.5 in tire on a 7 inch rim? When I had 11.5 width on my 7 inch wide rim the lateral stability went away and came back with a narrower tire. If only by an inch. You have 3 to 5 inches of play in there. Pending that you don't run the tires at a very (and probably higher than spec) high psi that is. The closer the rim width is to tire width, the less it will "shift" from side to side with the weight of the truck. Running too wide a tire will actually cause a delay in steering response as well and can actually cause over-corrections in avoidance maneuvers.

I am sure the individual results will vary dependent upon user. Laoutback, did you get those tires shortly after acquiring the Montero? I think if you had a 10.5 or smaller width before, you'd have noticed the "shift" or "roll" that I am referring to. I for one am relieved to have went back to a smaller width and based on my experience, feel like I am in more control. But as Nicole Simpson once said "control is an illusion".

It's all personal preference anyway... Just thought I'd throw that out there.
 
I am sure the individual results will vary dependent upon user. Laoutback, did you get those tires shortly after acquiring the Montero? I think if you had a 10.5 or smaller width before, you'd have noticed the "shift" or "roll" that I am referring to. I for one am relieved to have went back to a smaller width and based on my experience, feel like I am in more control. But as Nicole Simpson once said "control is an illusion".

I drove the montero for several weeks with stock sized tires before upgrading to the Duratracs. I do see your point of the rubber moving more around the tire. I may eventually get some wider wheels, but I like the current stance of the truck, with wheels tucked into the fender wells.... Hmm I wonder what size (and backspaced/offset) wheel would I achieve this?

I think I read someone was able to trade in tires to receive credit for new tires... I may try something similar and get the 10.50s. But one reason I settled on the 12.50 was for the sake of finding a spare (while traveling) if I ever needed to. The 33x10.50 is a pretty rare breed. 255 85 is much more common but I'd need to buy new wheels also...
 

Toasty

Looking for that thing i just had in my hand...
I have to say in the skinny vs wide tire thing, there is a lot to do with the weight of your truck that effects the contact pressure of your tread. Wide tires on a Samurai = worthless, now wide tires on something fullsize or really heavy (Montero) works pretty well.

13.5's for when i'm door deep in rocks on my way to the shiny truck show in the mall parking lot.:sombrero:

willow04-25029.jpg
 
But again, the basis of the discussion and Scott Brady's white paper listed by the OP is regarding overland traveling. The majority of which you will not find door deep rocks. Meaning the majority of the time you do not need such wide tires cruising across a continent. But lets face it each person's vehicle is built for their driving, riding, and cosmetic preferences.

I really like the look of my 12.5s on my Montero. I'm trying to figure out a way to make them fit just a little bit better. I need to eventually crank the torsions a bit and possibly do a body lift. The OME heavies on the rear did a good job of "stink bugging" the truck.

I've been thinking of scrubber3's point regarding the narrow wheel and the extra deflection that causes. Makes sense. Trying to finger out what setup would be most ideal to have a correct rim width while maintaining the same or similar tire placement within the fender.

Off-Roader suggests an 8" wide rim with neutral offset (4" backspace) which he says should work. But would the extra 1 inch make that big of difference in the tire's handling, especially since Goodyear recommends an 8.5"-11" wheel? I'm also concerned of the inevitable uneven wear of the tire due to the narrow rim. I've tried to compensate by using 2 or 3lbs lower PSI than I'd like to run. Thoughts on this?
 

Forum statistics

Threads
185,884
Messages
2,879,420
Members
225,497
Latest member
WonaWarrior
Top