Why are other full size SUV's not used in overlanding/offroading as often as Forerunner/Landcruiser?

[Jeff the Dane]

Americans have to remember you have a special situation, with your huge country with both very remote and very populated areas, but most of all you can get your full size trucks fixed about any where for cheap even in most of Latin America. But for us in the rest of the world we see that a Ram 2500 got strong drive line, plenty of room and more than enough power, it should be better than a LC on paper. But its not as they are not as reliable under real punishment, we are not talking a trip to Death Valley here, and parts are very far in between in the rest of the world.

I live in the south of Spain and i can be in Marrocco in 2 hours exploring around in the desert, but good luck breaking down in a American truck in Africa, Russia, Middle east or most areas in Asia. Even in Western Europe you would be stranded for days till parts can be shipped to you. You are gonna be up ******** creek without a paddle. A LC service life is 30 years for the bigger models, i would not be worried giving my 80´series a service and cross down true Africa or go deep into rural eastern Europe where only Lada´s and Land Cruisers survive. Bring your American full size there and the smallest problem will have you waiting for weeks on parts and its gonna be an expensive experience. There is a reason an 25 year old 80 series goes for 20K$ minimum in most of Europe, they work for ever and parts supply no one can beat it on the planet. You see in Australia now the American trucks started to take of as they build out a parts supply program for the hole continent, without that they are worthless unfortunately. And a specialist working on American trucks probably run you +150$ an hour to get it fixed around Europe so its just not a good investment, and every spare is gonna be 500% markup every time it breaks as its all imported parts. Last but not least you don´t want to be driving a full size bling truck´s in third world areas, you are gonna be a target, it draws attention. No one takes an extra look at a Land Cruiser or an old Patrol.

I have been looking at a Ram 2500 as they are cheap to buy compared to old Land Cruisers and Nissan Patrols, but it just don´t work if you are outside the American continent. Same if you went overlanding the U.S in a Nissan Patrol, the smallest problem could be a pain, as part´s are not readily available even though they dominate most remote areas in the world. Even around Spain it would take days to source a sensor or a radiator for a American truck and your truck would be stranded, they will be hard to tow as they are so big and heavy it will again cost you way way more and be a pain in the back. An LC is just the nearest garage and they will have in back in business next day at least pretty much in any country you might find yourself on the planet.

 

[dman93]

I owned an FZJ80 for many years and for US conditions it was good - suitable size, triple lockers, good suspension articulation and nice AWD for all wether use - and quite reliable. I remember in about ‘96 or ‘97 driving my brother-in-laws Tahoe. Comfortable, good power, but awful steering and brakes compared to the similar age Land Cruiser. Interestingly, I sold the LC in 2008 and despite advertising on IH8MUD and here, as well as CL, I had trouble selling a lifted, locked 80. Times have changed. And in more ways than one; a few years ago I put in a few miles behind the wheel of a rental Suburban and I was blown away by its comfort, on road handling, and en indicated highway fuel economy. finally, I see mostly Jeeps in many off pavement locales here in the West, but also lots of Toyota’s and full size domestics.

 

[calicamper]

Americans have to remember you have a special situation, with your huge country with both very remote and very populated areas, but most of all you can get your full size trucks fixed about any where for cheap even in most of Latin America. But for us in the rest of the world we see that a Ram 2500 got strong drive line, plenty of room and more than enough power, it should be better than a LC on paper. But its not as they are not as reliable under real punishment, we are not talking a trip to Death Valley here, and parts are very far in between in the rest of the world.

I live in the south of Spain and i can be in Marrocco in 2 hours exploring around in the desert, but good luck breaking down in a American truck in Africa, Russia, Middle east or most areas in Asia. Even in Western Europe you would be stranded for days till parts can be shipped to you. You are gonna be up **** creek without a paddle. A LC service life is 30 years for the bigger models, i would not be worried giving my 80´series a service and cross down true Africa or go deep into rural eastern Europe where only Lada´s and Land Cruisers survive. Bring your American full size there and the smallest problem will have you waiting for weeks on parts and its gonna be an expensive experience. There is a reason an 25 year old 80 series goes for 20K$ minimum in most of Europe, they work for ever and parts supply no one can beat it on the planet. You see in Australia now the American trucks started to take of as they build out a parts supply program for the hole continent, without that they are worthless unfortunately. And a specialist working on American trucks probably run you +150$ an hour to get it fixed around Europe so its just not a good investment, and every spare is gonna be 500% markup every time it breaks as its all imported parts. Last but not least you don´t want to be driving a full size bling truck´s in third world areas, you are gonna be a target, it draws attention. No one takes an extra look at a Land Cruiser or an old Patrol.

I have been looking at a Ram 2500 as they are cheap to buy compared to old Land Cruisers and Nissan Patrols, but it just don´t work if you are outside the American continent. Same if you went overlanding the U.S in a Nissan Patrol, the smallest problem could be a pain, as part´s are not readily available even though they dominate most remote areas in the world. Even around Spain it would take days to source a sensor or a radiator for a American truck and your truck would be stranded, they will be hard to tow as they are so big and heavy it will again cost you way way more and be a pain in the back. An LC is just the nearest garage and they will have in back in business next day at least pretty much in any country you might find yourself on the planet.

Yeah except those of us that travel both globally and here in the states find this to not be true at all. Current ie modern Land Cruisers are no more reliable than our current Domestics. And the stuff you use out side the US doesn’t even come close to the payloads and hauling weights we see being hauled in the states by far far far more vehicles at any one single moment.

Yes we have a unique massive region covering desert, Dunes, high mountains and high temps in all those geographic types. Plus we have 1000’s of people dragging thousands of lbs of big FAT American RVS through those regions too.

Do vehicles break down? Yep all of them do. Even Toyotas. Your right about one thing Domestics can be fixed in every remote hole in the wall place in the North American Continent. Toyota not so much.

 

[Christian P.]

Americans have to remember you have a special situation, with your huge country with both very remote and very populated areas, but most of all you can get your full size trucks fixed about any where for cheap even in most of Latin America. But for us in the rest of the world we see that a Ram 2500 got strong drive line, plenty of room and more than enough power, it should be better than a LC on paper. But its not as they are not as reliable under real punishment, we are not talking a trip to Death Valley here, and parts are very far in between in the rest of the world.

I live in the south of Spain and i can be in Marrocco in 2 hours exploring around in the desert, but good luck breaking down in a American truck in Africa, Russia, Middle east or most areas in Asia. Even in Western Europe you would be stranded for days till parts can be shipped to you. You are gonna be up **** creek without a paddle. A LC service life is 30 years for the bigger models, i would not be worried giving my 80´series a service and cross down true Africa or go deep into rural eastern Europe where only Lada´s and Land Cruisers survive. Bring your American full size there and the smallest problem will have you waiting for weeks on parts and its gonna be an expensive experience. There is a reason an 25 year old 80 series goes for 20K$ minimum in most of Europe, they work for ever and parts supply no one can beat it on the planet. You see in Australia now the American trucks started to take of as they build out a parts supply program for the hole continent, without that they are worthless unfortunately. And a specialist working on American trucks probably run you +150$ an hour to get it fixed around Europe so its just not a good investment, and every spare is gonna be 500% markup every time it breaks as its all imported parts. Last but not least you don´t want to be driving a full size bling truck´s in third world areas, you are gonna be a target, it draws attention. No one takes an extra look at a Land Cruiser or an old Patrol.

I have been looking at a Ram 2500 as they are cheap to buy compared to old Land Cruisers and Nissan Patrols, but it just don´t work if you are outside the American continent. Same if you went overlanding the U.S in a Nissan Patrol, the smallest problem could be a pain, as part´s are not readily available even though they dominate most remote areas in the world. Even around Spain it would take days to source a sensor or a radiator for a American truck and your truck would be stranded, they will be hard to tow as they are so big and heavy it will again cost you way way more and be a pain in the back. An LC is just the nearest garage and they will have in back in business next day at least pretty much in any country you might find yourself on the planet.

Americans have developed a new definition of Overlanding. For most, it's more about driving to Utah or Nevada on an extended weekend, or perhaps Alaska if they manage to get the time off. In that situation, I would believe that a Chevy Tahoe or Ford Expedition is as good as a Land Cruiser - if not better in some aspects (cheaper to buy, cheaper to fix, more comfortable, etc).

For some, when thinking about Overlanding we dream about spending a year driving down to Patagonia or even better, to Morocco and then deep into Africa.
For that kind of scenario where American trucks are non-existent, a Toyota becomes the number one choice.

 

[calicamper]

You travel remote places outside the US. You see far more VW variants, And other “cheap” and simple vehicles such as Isuzu, Mistubishi. Toyota is an expensive brand and actually pretty rare in truly remote rugged and typically economically repressed locations. Russian vehicles are far far far more common than Toyota.
Middle East VW variants are more common than Toyota.

 

[Martinjmpr]

The only place outside the US/Canada and Mexico that I've ever seen large numbers of US made vehicles was in the Middle East, specifically Kuwait. American cars and trucks are very common there.

Unlike Europe, whose infrastructure dates back to the Roman Empire, most of the Middle East was built up after WWII and has nice, wide roads perfectly suitable for big American cars and trucks.

Also the large numbers of US oil companies doing business on the Arabian peninsula means lots of Americans who brought vehicles over with them.

And the final factor, of course, is dirt-cheap fuel, which is a luxury most of the rest of the world (but particularly Europe and East Asia) doesn't have.

 

[Christian P.]

you guys make me want to go and buy a Land Cruiser right now...

 

[calicamper]

Americans have developed a new definition of Overlanding. For most, it's more about driving to Utah or Nevada on an extended weekend, or perhaps Alaska if they manage to get the time off. In that situation, I would believe that a Chevy Tahoe or Ford Expedition is as good as a Land Cruiser - if not better in some aspects (cheaper to buy, cheaper to fix, more comfortable, etc).

For some, when thinking about Overlanding we dream about spending a year driving down to Patagonia or even better, to Morocco and then deep into Africa.
For that kind of scenario where American trucks are non-existent, a Toyota becomes the number one choice.

Not true. More America brands do the Panamerican with Americans than Toyota. And that goes back to the days of dirt highway and no services.

 

[vintageracer]

Humans have a "Herd / Heard" mentality.

Politicians, Promoters, Advertisers, Pimps and the like know this all to well.

Continue to feed us the same crap over and over and in short order we WILL begin to follow the Herd all the while repeating what we HEARD!

WOW!

I heard it again. Toyota, Toyota, Toyota!

I guess that's why I just bought another 1st Gen 4Runner last week.

I'm following the Herd!

I "Heard" Dat!

 

[ttengineer]

you guys make me want to go and buy a Land Cruiser right now...

I sat in a 200 series for the first time a few weekends ago at the Atlanta Autoshow.

And it honestly felt like I sat in a brand new car from 10 years ago.

Nothing felt luxurious, the interior, other than the leather, looked and felt cheap.

For $85k I was super disappointed, and frankly shocked.

The the TRD Pro Sequoia was even worse.

The entire Toyota line is in desperate need of a refresh.

Honestly, if resale value of the LC wasn’t so high I don’t think people would buy them.

Right now, I think I’d honestly rather spend the $85k on a LTZ Tahoe with the Z71 package or a Prestige trim Audi Q7.

But if the rumors are true, it sounds like after 2021 the US will no longer get a Landcruiser.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[zoomad75]

Funny how the conversation starts about Toyota vs domestics in America to, domestics in Europe, Africa and Australia would suck due to no parts availability and people to work on them. Really? You mean they don't drive pickups everywhere in the world like us? I'll be damned. I learned something new today. **use a sarcastic tone on the last statements**

I don't think anybody was making the argument that they are going to take a 10-year-old Tahoe to Morroco and bomb around the desert out there. It's pretty obvious that Land Cruisers are more globally known than the American domestics outside of North America.

But if we are going to talk about the American Domestics, it would be with the use in America as anywhere else they are technically "foreign" everywhere else. Talking about using a Ram 2500 in Africa and bitching about lack of parts is right on par to use a Nissan Patrol in America where parts are virtually non-existent compared to the stuff Nissan imports to our country. No doubt the Patrol is a killer vehicle but if somebody wants to use one in a market they were never sold in originally is taking risks that may cost time and extra money if a breakdown was to occur.

The comparison doesn't really key in on the comparison of the vehicles listed in the North American domestic market. It does bring up that we Americans aren't really "Overlanding" like the folks doing it in other countries on other continents because it's not as remote or dangerous. We are just camping in Utah or Nevada. (guilty of both by the way)

What I think happens is geographically, groups tend to use what's available. Here in the states, we use pickup trucks and SUV's because trucks have been in use for 100 years, SUV's as we know them for 60+ years with the Jeep, then Scouts, Broncos, Blazers, and Ramchargers. In other parts of the world where other manufacturers have more availability, they tend to be the makes used there. Again it begs the question, who the hell cares? You like a Land Cruiser, go buy one. If you like a Tahoe, go get one. You want to cruise around in a Corvair van setup to live out of like modern van lifers then go for it. People get way to wrapped up in what's cool or next and don't realize you can do most of this kind of travel with very basic transportation. If you want to buy something turn-key or build it yourself then either way works. Just do it.

 

[86scotty]

This thread continues to amuse and entertain. I say this as an outsider looking in, not loving or hating any particular vehicle. I generally like the paid for ones most regardless of badge.

Hey, speaking of overlanding vehicles, where are all of the Land Rover guys? Is this thread below them?

 

[Jeff the Dane]

Funny how the conversation starts about Toyota vs domestics in America to, domestics in Europe, Africa and Australia would suck due to no parts availability and people to work on them. Really? You mean they don't drive pickups everywhere in the world like us? I'll be damned. I learned something new today. **use a sarcastic tone on the last statements**

I don't think anybody was making the argument that they are going to take a 10-year-old Tahoe to Morroco and bomb around the desert out there. It's pretty obvious that Land Cruisers are more globally known than the American domestics outside of North America.

But if we are going to talk about the American Domestics, it would be with the use in America as anywhere else they are technically "foreign" everywhere else. Talking about using a Ram 2500 in Africa and bitching about lack of parts is right on par to use a Nissan Patrol in America where parts are virtually non-existent compared to the stuff Nissan imports to our country. No doubt the Patrol is a killer vehicle but if somebody wants to use one in a market they were never sold in originally is taking risks that may cost time and extra money if a breakdown was to occur.

The comparison doesn't really key in on the comparison of the vehicles listed in the North American domestic market. It does bring up that we Americans aren't really "Overlanding" like the folks doing it in other countries on other continents because it's not as remote or dangerous. We are just camping in Utah or Nevada. (guilty of both by the way)

What I think happens is geographically, groups tend to use what's available. Here in the states, we use pickup trucks and SUV's because trucks have been in use for 100 years, SUV's as we know them for 60+ years with the Jeep, then Scouts, Broncos, Blazers, and Ramchargers. In other parts of the world where other manufacturers have more availability, they tend to be the makes used there. Again it begs the question, who the hell cares? You like a Land Cruiser, go buy one. If you like a Tahoe, go get one. You want to cruise around in a Corvair van setup to live out of like modern van lifers then go for it. People get way to wrapped up in what's cool or next and don't realize you can do most of this kind of travel with very basic transportation. If you want to buy something turn-key or build it yourself then either way works. Just do it.

My point was just that you can use any form of transport as long as there is parts available. As mentioned above most remote areas mostly have terrible local cars, but its no problem as they have plenty of spares. People cross Africa in old Corolla´s they can get parts any were at any time.

 

[calicamper]

This thread continues to amuse and entertain. I say this as an outsider looking in, not loving or hating any particular vehicle. I generally like the paid for ones most regardless of badge.

Hey, speaking of overlanding vehicles, where are all of the Land Rover guys? Is this thread below them?

My rover buddy is busy rebuilding his rear axle. A pin failed and exited the diff. Messy deal.

 

[ExplorerTom]

Have you watched the Expedition Overland where they go to Alaska (the first time?)? They pull up in some town and discover an issue with a lug stud on one of their Toyotas. They go to the local NAPA Autoparts store and they don’t carry it. Had they been driving a Ford or GM, the XO crew would have walked out with a fistful of lug studs that same day. But instead, they were sidelined for a couple days waiting on a fancy bolt to get shipped in. Had they been in the eastern hemisphere, it might be a different story.

It’s been said before: it really depends on WHERE you’re going. In North America for most of us “weekender” “overlanders”, either domestic or import is fine but with an advantage to the domestics.

Yeah there isn’t as much aftermarket for domestics (outside the Jeep world- you can literally buy anything for a Jeep), but you can still go car camping just the same.