Upland Hunting - General

Highlander

The Good Shepherd
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On bobwhites.
The quail is a good training bird after the pup has figured out pointing and needs to learn how to behave more cautious around birds. At least for my dog.
Liberated chukars would let her to get very close and hold the point almost forever. I remember the other day as I was training her and mom my called me as the pup pointed at bird. I was on the phone with her for 15mn and the pup was waiting for me :D
The quail won't even let her to get that close let alone hold on that long. So, she would stay like 10-12 feet away to keep safe distance.
I think the actual wild quail is even worth.

I can't wait to see the woodcock returning the summer locations in the Northeast. They are good bird for taring too, especially for the late fall pups who have missed the hunting season.
Also more wild bird she sees more she get better style. At least this is my hope.
 

Vermonster

Observer
I can't wait to see the woodcock returning the summer locations in the Northeast. They are good bird for taring too, especially for the late fall pups who have missed the hunting season.
Also more wild bird she sees more she get better style. At least this is my hope.
As of a week ago woodcock are as far north as central Mass; my dog had a good flush while we visited a jobsite. Hung around until dusk and heard a second bird peenting. Ticks are back as well.
 

Tex68w

Beach Bum
We have an up and coming GSP pup that held a covey of wild quail (12+) for over 20 minutes a few weeks back, I was floored.
 

Highlander

The Good Shepherd
As of a week ago woodcock are as far north as central Mass; my dog had a good flush while we visited a jobsite. Hung around until dusk and heard a second bird peenting. Ticks are back as well.
Interesting. I have not seen them yet. or maybe my pup does not yet know how to find them.
One can track the migration here. It seems they indeed have made it to MA, especially in the Cape area.
This is a fantastic source.
BTW, may I ask if you ever hunted in the Cape Code? I hear there a lots of woodcock and rabbits.

We have an up and coming GSP pup that held a covey of wild quail (12+) for over 20 minutes a few weeks back, I was floored.
The wild ones or liberated bird? I hear the wild ones are even better for not letting the dog get too close.
As a matter if fact Ruffed grouse and woodcock keep dog on the distance too. More so the RG.
 

Tex68w

Beach Bum
The wild ones or liberated bird?
Wild Bobs, we've never released any pin raised birds on that ranch. It blew me away that they held and that Texas Jack committed to the point solo for that length of time. He's proving to be a stud and I am excited to see where he's at in the fall.

He's the little guy up on the tool box.

 

Highlander

The Good Shepherd
Wild Bobs, we've never released any pin raised birds on that ranch. It blew me away that they held and that Texas Jack committed to the point solo for that length of time. He's proving to be a stud and I am excited to see where he's at in the fall.
I find this interesting. The pen raised bobs would hold quite a bit if my dog keeps like 10-12 feet away. This morning she stood about 20 feet away. As she moves closer they fly out.
There is so much advantage for running a pup on actual wild bird. It makes dog be more accurate, careful and concentrated.
My dog now has gotten too familiar with birds and her style is fading away. She has started waggle her tail, wherein up until now she was very tens. This would probably get better in the fall on the wild bird, but until then I have to fix it some how.
This why is if one can he should always start the pup on the wild birds.
 

Vermonster

Observer
BTW, may I ask if you ever hunted in the Cape Code? I hear there a lots of woodcock and rabbits.
In the 70's it was possible to bag ruffed grouse, woodcock and bobwhite quail on the same day east of the canal. Today, nobody goes anymore--it's too crowded. Seriously, the amount of development is unbelievable and finding spots to hunt is very difficult. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it would be tough without a lot of work. Plenty of better options up north if woodcock and rabbits are your thing.
 
View attachment 646408

On bobwhites.
The quail is a good training bird after the pup has figured out pointing and needs to learn how to behave more cautious around birds. At least for my dog.
Liberated chukars would let her to get very close and hold the point almost forever. I remember the other day as I was training her and mom my called me as the pup pointed at bird. I was on the phone with her for 15mn and the pup was waiting for me :D
The quail won't even let her to get that close let alone hold on that long. So, she would stay like 10-12 feet away to keep safe distance.
I think the actual wild quail is even worth.

I can't wait to see the woodcock returning the summer locations in the Northeast. They are good bird for taring too, especially for the late fall pups who have missed the hunting season.
Also more wild bird she sees more she get better style. At least this is my hope.
Munsterlander? Nice looking dog!
 

Highlander

The Good Shepherd
In the 70's it was possible to bag ruffed grouse, woodcock and bobwhite quail on the same day east of the canal. Today, nobody goes anymore--it's too crowded. Seriously, the amount of development is unbelievable and finding spots to hunt is very difficult. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it would be tough without a lot of work. Plenty of better options up north if woodcock and rabbits are your thing.
Yeah. Cape Code is getting packed. I know of foamily who moved from NYC to Cape. Though is a good patch of forest left right of the canal, but I am sure if you dare to shoot a gun someone's gonna call cops.

Munsterlander? Nice looking dog!
No, but close. It's a German Longhair Pointer aka Deutsch Langhaar. She does look like a Mustie because she is a bit on small end of the breed standard and her color is more common in the Musties than in the DLs. The 75% of the breed is full brown.

The Musties are great dogs, way popular than the GLP here and even in Germany.
The Small Mustie is a relatively younger breed that the GLP, which is one of the oldest breeds.
So, one alleged rumor with the Small Musties is that their pointing instinct may mature later or in some cases not at all.
I did a research and it seems to be somewhat true. There were people complaining online about it on the German and the US / Canada hunting forums.

I have had two Irish setters, mother and son, with similar problem. The mother did not point until she was 8-9 month, though she became a very good dog, and her son did not point until he was 4 years old. He did have an excellent nose and hunted like a spaniel.
After that I didn't really want to go through that frustration even though I knew that it would have been very unlikely had I got a Mustie pup.
My DL started pointing toys when she was 9 weeks old and then pointed a bird when she 3 month. She has never broken a point so far. She stands still.
 
If I’m not mistaken, Langhaars and Large Munsterlanders are or were the same dog, but with different coloration. Regardless, nice dogs. Neither are common where I am.
 

Highlander

The Good Shepherd
@Sparse Gray Hackle
They once used to be the same breed, but the people with brown colored dogs decided to ban the dogs with black marking. The reason was it looked too much of an English Setter and there were alleged unsanctioned crossbreeding that between the GLP and ES that took place. Though some sanctioned crossbreeding did happen between all of three Setters and the Longhaired.
Those people with black dogs went there own way and created their own club, the Large Musterlander.
They are great dogs. There is a club in the US, mostly with the NAVHDA tested dogs.
As for the Longhaired there are two clubs here, the one affiliated with the German club and the original testing/breeding program and the other one with strictly AKC and NAVHDA dogs.
The division isn't noticeable since the most of the AKC registered GLSP have German parents or at least one of them.
However, this deference is very clear in GSP vs DK or GWP vs DD world. And it is very sensitive topic for the each camp.
 
I have encountered some of that sensitivity with closely related dogs, like the Griffon - Cesky Fousek kerfluffle. Just about all the continental breeds are fantastic.
 

Highlander

The Good Shepherd
Griffon - Cesky Fousek kerfluffle
That one was quite weird one. I think it was caused by a honest confusion rather then an partisan or adversarial thinking.

I talked to a Fousek guy at the 2020 Pheasant Fest who had a very handsome, almost full brown Fousek.
He told me that the name, Griffon, was understood as a breed name rather a type of dog. Like Setter or Spaniel or Retriever is a type of a dog than a specific breed.
The Griffon in the US was mostly Griffon Kartholas not a Bohemian Griffon (the Fousek).
So, when some people thought that the Griffs in the US have declined they went to Czech Republic and brought Fouseks, which were very different from the American style Griffs and even from the French ones. Some of those people honestly thought that they 'rediscovered" the original Griff.. and they kept pouring this new blood into the American Griffs.
The other guys protested the and the ******** show went on for a long time.

The funny thing is the both breeds, though very different, are excellent in their own ways. The US and France are producing the best of the Griffs out there.

The case with GWP vs DD is far more complicated than just a name confusion.
It's about who is breeding a true vestral dog and which is more pure and more suitable.
Ironically, each of these camps have a point.
 
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