New Defender Rage/Hate Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.

Corgi_express

Well-known member
I was going to get something chrome-plated bumper to bumper with 22" rims, but all they had on the lot was boring Pangaea Green, so I had to go with that...

In all seriousness, I love the color. I was torn between the green and the Stone, but the green with the black roof looks great out in the sun, and the extra black accents from the protection pack really set it off. I would NOT have ordered that pack, but now that I have it, I am a big fan.
 

JeepColorado

Well-known member
...which is amusing because IFS is the design of choice on 1,000km Baja trophy trucks that spawned the Raptor, and the Raptor itself has raced Baja in stock form. And let's not compare those to Class 10 buggies which are fully independent open-wheel monsters.

I guess 70-90mph over 1,000km of desert rocks and ruts doesn't compare to gently cruising across playas and along gravel roads with occasional washouts though. ;)

This seems a little short of your normal sharp analysis- @Red90 is right, the trucks you are referring to are overseen by top mechanics, hand built, broken down after each race and rebuilt etc.. not sure how much correlation there is to a daily driven vehicle and certainly not much correlation in the context of vehicle-supported adventure travel where you may be out on your own far away from support.
 

T-Willy

Well-known member
....And says that the front IFS is weaker and is a negative for overlanding ......he doesn't say this, but a reasonable conclusion would be that's X's 2 for the Defender with it's front and rear IFS.

I thought this was pretty dead-on, especially, with off-road capability a given, the focus on payload and range.

The factory availability of the Ursa Minor pop-top for Bronco is fantastic.
 
Last edited:

DieselRanger

Well-known member
This seems a little short of your normal sharp analysis- @Red90 is right, the trucks you are referring to are overseen by top mechanics, hand built, broken down after each race and rebuilt etc.. not sure how much correlation there is to a daily driven vehicle and certainly not much correlation in the context of vehicle-supported adventure travel where you may be out on your own far away from support.
And the Raptor? New Bronco that is supposedly superior to the Defender? The Discovery is quite well built, as is the Defender, of you get up close to them, and each had over a million km of test miles on them all over the world before they made it to market. The Discovery has been proven as a superb overland vehicle by people like Kingsley Holgate all over Africa, the middle east, and south Asia. The LR3 and 4 are used by many, and while their reliability isn't the best it's not failing control arms and bushings that drivers complain about.
 

Recommended books for Overlanding

Drive Nacho Drive: A Journey from the American Dream to t...
by Brad Van Orden, Sheena Van Orden
From $15.95
The Essential Guide to Overland Travel in the United Stat...
by TeriAnn Wakeman
From $64.95
Long Way Down: An Epic Journey by Motorcycle from Scotlan...
by Ewan McGregor, Charley Boorman
From $1.65
Tortillas to Totems (Every day an Adventure Book 4)
by Sam Manicom
From $9.99

roving1

Well-known member
...which is amusing because IFS is the design of choice on 1,000km Baja trophy trucks that spawned the Raptor, and the Raptor itself has raced Baja in stock form. And let's not compare those to Class 10 buggies which are fully independent open-wheel monsters.

I guess 70-90mph over 1,000km of desert rocks and ruts doesn't compare to gently cruising across playas and along gravel roads with occasional washouts though. ;)
If all IFS travel rigs were all rocking 4 grand worth of indestructible RCV CV's or similar then that would be a fair comparison. 😉
 

JeepColorado

Well-known member
Anybody remember the DC 100 from years ago and how it was pretty universally hated?


Given the fanbase reaction it's surprising how much of it LR (Gerry) kept-

 

soflorovers

Well-known member
Anybody remember the DC 100 from years ago and how it was pretty universally hated?


Given the fanbase reaction it's surprising how much of it LR (Gerry) kept-

Yeah....I'm not gonna lie, this was my first thought too when the new Defender was finally revealed. I can't think of a single person that looked at the DC100 and said "That's a handsome vehicle!". The production version improved the aesthetic, but it wasn't the complete re-design that we hoped for.
 

DieselRanger

Well-known member
If all IFS travel rigs were all rocking 4 grand worth of indestructible RCV CV's or similar then that would be a fair comparison. 😉
Does the Raptor? Does the 4Runner? The Raptor runs in SCORE Unlimited alongside 4Runners in Production Mini (I think 7F or 7SX), which are also IFS. And what's more, they finish. :) Axles and CVs must be stock production as delivered - only some gusseting of arms and off the shelf aftermarket shocks and upper arms are allowed in production classes.

There may be $4K unit cost equivalent in engineered strength in both the Bronco and the Defender - the Defender is a $70K vehicle and the Raptor is close - the Bronco is lower cost, but will sell in higher volume so that engineering cost may not add up to that unit cost in each truck. There are a brazillion 4Runners and Tacos on the market and they haven't significantly changed the front suspension since 2012 so that unit cost is way down over the engineering cost.

Bottom line, you're correct, overlanding ain't racing - and there are plenty of IFS trucks that survive racing in effectively stock configurations, which is that much harder. And plenty of people who overland IFS rigs all over the world with no ill effects. The same principle always applies - know your rig, and before you go on a trip, inspect and perform proper maintenance, and you minimize the risk of any failure on the trail.
 

roving1

Well-known member
Does the Raptor? Does the 4Runner? The Raptor runs in SCORE Unlimited alongside 4Runners in Production Mini (I think 7F or 7SX), which are also IFS. And what's more, they finish. :) Axles and CVs must be stock production as delivered - only some gusseting of arms and off the shelf aftermarket shocks and upper arms are allowed in production classes.

There may be $4K unit cost equivalent in engineered strength in both the Bronco and the Defender - the Defender is a $70K vehicle and the Raptor is close - the Bronco is lower cost, but will sell in higher volume so that engineering cost may not add up to that unit cost in each truck. There are a brazillion 4Runners and Tacos on the market and they haven't significantly changed the front suspension since 2012 so that unit cost is way down over the engineering cost.

Bottom line, you're correct, overlanding ain't racing - and there are plenty of IFS trucks that survive racing in effectively stock configurations, which is that much harder. And plenty of people who overland IFS rigs all over the world with no ill effects. The same principle always applies - know your rig, and before you go on a trip, inspect and perform proper maintenance, and you minimize the risk of any failure on the trail.
For some reason I read Trophy Trucks but processed Pro-4 in my head. Reading comprehension fail, my bad.

But if the vehicle is modded at all in the suspension or engine department or putting a bunch of torque down though a cv because it is at max GVWR and start throwing in high steer angles is when they blow up. Stock IFS not modded and not at max load is pretty durable. But I have wheeled with IFS and done enough rally and street stuff on performance FWD to feel pretty safe that CV's are always a weak point. One that can be managed for sure but every step you add heavy use or deviate from stock only makes the CV's that much more likely to be an issue. On a stock vehicle it will be fine. But all these dudes cranking up the ride height and fitting bigger tires will probably have the same issues everyone does eventually.

I run IFS so I am not a knee jerk hater.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top