New Defender News

Blaise

Well-known member
yes but was anyone other than the driver going to walk away from that? If I remember right this LR3 rolled at 55 plus MPH. I'm sure that Defender was going much faster though.
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Speed will not alone determine the level of structural deformation. Remember, it's not speed that kills you, it's the suddenly stopping part. If you roll your vehicle over a surface of compliant foam (heh), it will look very different than if you do over a hard, rocky surface. Unfortunately I can speak to this from personal experience, but I was in a vehicle with a good structure and airbag system.

In addition, we have the all-to-common 'it crumpled like a beercan!' complaint from layfolk, despite that working as designed. Sigh.

I'm so thankful that vehicle safety systems are as amazing as they are. I'm a sports car aficionado and recently I upgraded my '90 design sports car to one released in 2013 purely out of fear of being hurt in a crash. Sure enough, a year later a friend who did not upgrade was involved in a rollover. He broke both femurs, 3 vertebrae, etc etc etc. I can't believe he's alive.

I'm OK with issues if I'm getting a break on the vehicle up front due to depreciation
Sup dude. See you in 3-5 years with our matching Defenders :D

100% agreed on all points. It's frustrating but my options are that, or a 2009 era Toyota. If Toyota ever releases a new truck, I'll consider that vs a heavily depreciated Defender.
 

krick3tt

Adventurer
I have put lots of personal comfort items on my 07 LR3 that the idea of starting anew on a Defender just because I can does not make sense especially when I read so many reports about fixing them coming up. I would rather put in a new engine (diesel?) than get a new vehicle. There are wear items that all vehicles have that replacing a control arm, brakes or some other thing just comes with the territory to me. This one is paid for, several times over probably as I bought it used, can't see starting that process again.
 

ChasingOurTrunks

Well-known member
Awesome. So what have we learned? Land Rover continues to make the same dumb mistakes every single time they produce a vehicle. Why does a new vehicle with delivery miles need a compressor replaced? I remember working at JLR Main Line in Philly during college (Circa 2014) when the L405's were still hot items. Our service bay was downstairs and required that you drive down a ramp with two speed bumps. I distinctly recall 10+ early L405's with clunking control arms and the trucks all had very low mileage; I'm pretty sure this later became a TSB. Wasn't this a known issue from the L322 and LR3 by now? Why do the same issues keep popping up on new vehicles? I'm almost CERTAIN my 2020 RR Evoque loaner had bad control arms - sure enough I Google'd and there was a TSB for the control arms. My patience is starting to wear real thin... I'll always love this brand, but it's becoming harder and harder to justify purchasing a new LR. I'm OK with issues if I'm getting a break on the vehicle up front due to depreciation, but it's unacceptable to drop 80k on a New Defender just to hear it needs as much work as my 175k mile LR3.
.....starting to lose patience? How much did you have to begin with? :D I am just kidding Soflorovers, but I'm not sure I have the patience to tolerate paying full price for a new one based only on reputation, and I have never worked for them and seen that many problems first hand. Can you teach my kid to drive when the time comes? You must have the patience of a saint!

In truth I think plenty of the New Defenders are probably working just fine, but it does seem like a lot of teething pains. If they are still here in 2022 it's a much bigger problem, but at least thanks to discussions like this one buyers know exactly what they are getting for $80k. Some folks spend $500 for pants with holes pre-made in them after all so not everyone needs things to be perfect!

I'd put my family in a 2020 anything over a 2005 anything, assuming similar vehicles from said era. Unfortunately, with folks paying less and less attention to driving, this is especially critical lately (and can seen by highway fatality statistics).
This is a fact. I run a risk management company and we've been spending the last year or so researching risk mitigation for everyday people. Our research shows that one of the best ways you can mitigate your risk level is to own a vehicle newer than 2012 in the US; at that time electronic stability control became mandatory for vehicles, and you'll also have minimum standards in other areas like airbags etc. that were required by regulation before that date. Newer cars are almost universally safer than old ones.

That being said, the star ratings are still worth paying attention to -- TFL had a good video dissecting the Jeep Wrangler's crash testing and frankly, I love my Wranglers, but on a safety basis they are not nearly as good as....well, almost anything else you can buy new today.

For Overlanders in particular, we spend a lot of time and money doing modifications to vehicles and bringing equipment "just in case" something happens in the backcountry and leaves us stranded. There are threads and YouTube videos all over the place talking about the importance of a 'bug out bag' in your overland vehicle, how dual batteries is necessary because if one battery fails you'll starve to death, or how if you don't have a HAM license you'll end up stuck in a bog for some explorer to find your skeleton 50 years from now. These are all good ideas of course and do mitigate particular risks, but most people are thousands of times more likely to get into a wreck on our way to the remote places -- usually within a few miles of home, actually -- than we are to get stuck in those remote places in a truly serious way. It's a bit boring to talk about safety ratings so you don't see much discussion about it, but it's arguable one of the most important dimensions of a vehicle purchase, regardless of what the use case is.
 

A.J.M

Explorer
I think the golden rule would be to not buy a first year car of any run from any maker.

regardless of who they are, there will always be teething issues and the final 5% of development done by the user.

Land Rover are good in that field, let the user sort the final 5% for them and life is grand.

I’ll still be buying a new Defender when the time comes.
 

Blaise

Well-known member
This is a fact. I run a risk management company and we've been spending the last year or so researching risk mitigation for everyday people. Our research shows that one of the best ways you can mitigate your risk level is to own a vehicle newer than 2012 in the US; at that time electronic stability control became mandatory for vehicles, and you'll also have minimum standards in other areas like airbags etc. that were required by regulation before that date. Newer cars are almost universally safer than old ones.
Thanks! I'm a structural engineer so I see this from the technical side and don't have access to the statistical breakdown of how this actually pans out in real-life use... but I strongly suspected this.
 

ChasingOurTrunks

Well-known member
TFL Off Road video showing the Defender vs the FJ; of note I have in the past wondered about the terrain TFL uses as "off road" — I’ve critiqued it for being ‘too easy’ — but a jeep Cherokee comes along in this vid and shows that the track is not as easy as the camera makes it look. I stand at least partially corrected.

 

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Carson G

Well-known member
Awesome. So what have we learned? Land Rover continues to make the same dumb mistakes every single time they produce a vehicle. Why does a new vehicle with delivery miles need a compressor replaced? I remember working at JLR Main Line in Philly during college (Circa 2014) when the L405's were still hot items. Our service bay was downstairs and required that you drive down a ramp with two speed bumps. I distinctly recall 10+ early L405's with clunking control arms and the trucks all had very low mileage; I'm pretty sure this later became a TSB. Wasn't this a known issue from the L322 and LR3 by now? Why do the same issues keep popping up on new vehicles? I'm almost CERTAIN my 2020 RR Evoque loaner had bad control arms - sure enough I Google'd and there was a TSB for the control arms. My patience is starting to wear real thin... I'll always love this brand, but it's becoming harder and harder to justify purchasing a new LR. I'm OK with issues if I'm getting a break on the vehicle up front due to depreciation, but it's unacceptable to drop 80k on a New Defender just to hear it needs as much work as my 175k mile LR3.
I agree. Then you have examples like my LR3 were that stuff lasts you 100k miles with no issues. Frankly I’m against buying any new car, IMO a 2 year old 22’ model year or later Defender will probably be the ticket. Hopefully they’ll have most of the QC issues worked out by then and if the vehicles makes it 2 year without being lemon lawed it’s probably a decent example.
 

Blaise

Well-known member
In case anyone forgot:

pre 1995: Land Rover was owned by Rover Group
1995-2000: Land Rover was owned by BMW
2000-2008: Land Rover was owned by Ford
2008-now: Land Rover is owned by Tata.

Which one of the above was the LR3? ;)

Still hopeful that I can own a Defender. Very hopeful.
 

DieselRanger

Well-known member
Is it a US thing where you don’t have screen cover with car insurance?

I had my heated screen on my Disco 3 changed and it was only £80 excess for the Pilkinton glass.
Are you having to pay full price for a screen change?

As for the scraper thing, being a tad vertically challenged at 5,8 on a good day.
I would have to climb on the tyre and reach in to get the middle. Which was a pain when trying to wash it... :rolleyes:
In the US most insurance companies will cover filling chips and stars for free, but you have to catch them before they spread.

Most non-laminated/filtered/non-heated windshields are less than most deductibles so they don't result in claims to insurance companies. Discovery 5 windshield was over $850 installed because of the UV and IR lamination plus sound isolation and autonomous braking recalibration, so it cost me $500 for my deductible. And that was the OEM windshield - the aftermarket version of the same windshield with the same features was $1200. The OEM windshield had to ship from the UK and took four weeks and they broke one of them and had to reorder it. The aftermarket windshield was domestic but insurance wouldn't cover it.
 

DieselRanger

Well-known member
9115 Defender sold in the last 6 months of 2020. Be ready to see these everywhere soon.

More sales than the entire production run of the Old Defender in the US.
 
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