Ovrland
Adventurer
https://www.shapeways.com/product/BQFD8MQ86/land-rover-discovery-carling-switch-bracket
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
My Disco II Build
- Thread starter MStudt
- Start date
Victory_Overland
Explorer
Thank you good Sir!
Thank you for the link.
I'll have this in hand today, and can let you know how the quality is. Unfortunately the Rover is in the shop, and I won't be able to test fit until Tuesday.
Steel is easier to work with, and cheaper. If you build the steel frame correctly it'll weigh the same as aluminum, and it'll be a lot stronger.
I don't think I've kept this thread up to date on recent events. For the last month or so we've been battling rising temps that all started on 5/13. Everything started when I noticed the fan clutch being out, and after swapping in a new one things started to get worse. I ran down everything I could think of, and thought maybe I had a bad t-stat. That was swapped out, and nothing changed. Then I really started thinking, and did some research into the fan clutch and symptoms of it going out.
After a lot of looking around I discovered it's recommended that you replace the water pump along with the clutch when the clutch goes. The clutch gets a wobble or unbalance to it, and that messes with the tight tolerance in the water pump. The water pump becomes loose, and so does the impeller. That being said I think the root of the issues is hopefully a bad water pump, and I luckily have a brand new one on hand.
With our trip starting in about 2 weeks we're giving ourselves until the end of the weekend to get things figured out. If we can't get things figured out we're leaving the Rover behind, and will be embarking on Plan B. Plan B is walking from Vermont/Canada board to Southern Florida. Either way it'll be quite the journey, and we'll be happy to be out hiking. We're both still hoping the Rover will come through for us though.
After a lot of looking around I discovered it's recommended that you replace the water pump along with the clutch when the clutch goes. The clutch gets a wobble or unbalance to it, and that messes with the tight tolerance in the water pump. The water pump becomes loose, and so does the impeller. That being said I think the root of the issues is hopefully a bad water pump, and I luckily have a brand new one on hand.
With our trip starting in about 2 weeks we're giving ourselves until the end of the weekend to get things figured out. If we can't get things figured out we're leaving the Rover behind, and will be embarking on Plan B. Plan B is walking from Vermont/Canada board to Southern Florida. Either way it'll be quite the journey, and we'll be happy to be out hiking. We're both still hoping the Rover will come through for us though.
There is a lot of controversy and misinformation out there concerning D2 coolant temps and frankly I think some people freak out over it unnecessarily. Consider for one thing that at the designed system pressure the boiling point of a 50/50 coolant mix is 260 deg F. The electric fan does not turn on until it hits 220, the dampened temp gauge needle does not move off the center point until it hits 240 and the red light comes on at 260. Believe me, and I'm saying this from experience, if you do have a problem you are going to know it because the engine is going to overheat. If you are steady at 217 on the highway (and yes installing the winch did have an effect) the system is controlling the temperature. The electric fan is not even turning on (if the AC is off)
We do not rely on the dash temp gauge at all, and have an UltraGauge to monitor the temps. I think the AC condenser fan comes on at 210, or at least that's about when I hear it kick on when the AC is off.
Our temps have slowly been getting higher, and higher. Temps are constantly over 220 on the highway now, and have even been over 230. I know that's not right, and something is wrong with temps like that. Something in the cooling system isn't keeping up, and it's going to end up being a major issue.
After really think things over, and laying everything out in a timeline. Our viscus failed, and things have been getting worse ever since. At this point I've had about 5 people tell me that my issue is the water pump, and that it failed when viscus failed. Given that everything else is brand new, and working like it should that makes sense to me. I'm hoping to be able to diagnose the water pump tonight, and I'll move on from them. Luckily I already have a new water pump, and I went ahead and pick up another viscus.
Last edited:
You're probably right about 210 for the fan I'm going on memory. I went through all of this last year coming back from my Utah expedition when my truck began overheating every time I tried to climb a hill. I tried new fan, thermostat, pressure cap, radiator and water pump to no avail. I ended up buying a used 4.6 which has been working well since last August so I haven't gotten around to taking my old engine apart yet but I suspect it has a blown head gasket.
Anyway, I'd say a bad waterpump is going to leak, that's what they do when they go bad.
Another thing to check and I don't mean to imply that you don't know what you're doing but it was suggested to me a few times on discoweb that it actually is possible to misroute the serpentine belt and end up spinning the fan and waterpump backwards and this is something that actually has happened to more than one person.
If it'll make you feel any better I forgot to tighten the electrical bonding strap between my engine and the frame and the result was that I welded my parking brake cable to its housing because that's what the starter ended up using for an electrical circuit path. And believe it or not I'm not the first person to have that happen either!
Anyway, I'd say a bad waterpump is going to leak, that's what they do when they go bad.
Another thing to check and I don't mean to imply that you don't know what you're doing but it was suggested to me a few times on discoweb that it actually is possible to misroute the serpentine belt and end up spinning the fan and waterpump backwards and this is something that actually has happened to more than one person.
If it'll make you feel any better I forgot to tighten the electrical bonding strap between my engine and the frame and the result was that I welded my parking brake cable to its housing because that's what the starter ended up using for an electrical circuit path. And believe it or not I'm not the first person to have that happen either!
I guess routing the water pump backward could happen, but wouldn't also change the rotation direction of the fan? I would think if it were routed backwards that the fan would end up pushing rather than pulling.
If the water pump isn't the issue then we have bigger problems. This is a brand new 4.6 from Turner Engineering, and it was running correctly for the first 400 miles or so. If it ends up not being the water pump we're going to put the Rover at the inlaws so we don't have to cancel our trip, and we'll end up taking our 4runner instead. So either way we now have a backup plan.
Spent last night swapping the water pump, and fan. The water pump did help some, but not what I was hoping for. At idle in the driveway the temps were 224.7 or 221.6 all the time with the AC on max. When you give it some gas those temps dropped right away to 215.4 to 217.6.
Driving down the highway with an outside air temp of 83 the engine temp ran between 215.7-217.4 with the AC on max. When getting off the highway the temps dropped to 212 on the off ramp, and held at 215.6 at the stop light. The return trip down the highway had the same temps. Driving around town in the 30-40 mph range that temps ran between 212.2-217.6.
After the drive we did some more testing with a heat gun, and thermometer. We put a manual thermometer in the reservoir, and the highest reading it had was 208. It was reading 208 when the UltraGauge was reading 224.7. We shot temps of all hoses, and the upper manifold. The manifold had the highest temps, and that was around 202, and all hoses were under 200. It'll be driven today, and I'm going to get a reading on the radiator itself to see if there are any major swings.
I'm still not 100% convinced the issue(s) are solved. Yesterday was a cooler day being only 83, and I'm still concerned about days that'll be over 90 (next week).
Driving down the highway with an outside air temp of 83 the engine temp ran between 215.7-217.4 with the AC on max. When getting off the highway the temps dropped to 212 on the off ramp, and held at 215.6 at the stop light. The return trip down the highway had the same temps. Driving around town in the 30-40 mph range that temps ran between 212.2-217.6.
After the drive we did some more testing with a heat gun, and thermometer. We put a manual thermometer in the reservoir, and the highest reading it had was 208. It was reading 208 when the UltraGauge was reading 224.7. We shot temps of all hoses, and the upper manifold. The manifold had the highest temps, and that was around 202, and all hoses were under 200. It'll be driven today, and I'm going to get a reading on the radiator itself to see if there are any major swings.
I'm still not 100% convinced the issue(s) are solved. Yesterday was a cooler day being only 83, and I'm still concerned about days that'll be over 90 (next week).
Longtallsally
Adventurer
Man I don't know about what would happen with a brand new motor, but with ANY of those numbers, I'd have shut it off and either driven it straight home or had it towed.
Bottom line, IMO, something is WAY wrong.
Some relative numbers from my Disco: with ambient temp anywhere from 80-100F, driving around temps are 190-194. At stop lights I've seen it climb to as high as 203, which terrified me. On the freeway, no matter the ambient temp, I'm at 190 cruising at 75 mph. If I drop my speed to 65 it will go to 188. All this, and my condenser fan isn't even working right now. New radiator, fan clutch, 180F thermostat.
Now mine was at 212-217 during my drive home from CO to UT in the winter time before I learned those numbers are way high. After I replaced the above, the temps have been great. Without full on armchair diagnosing, my money is on the fan(s) not working well, the radiator is clogged (half of mine was cold, half was hot), or the absolute nightmare of a clogged coolant passage in the head(s) or block.
Bottom line, IMO, something is WAY wrong.
Some relative numbers from my Disco: with ambient temp anywhere from 80-100F, driving around temps are 190-194. At stop lights I've seen it climb to as high as 203, which terrified me. On the freeway, no matter the ambient temp, I'm at 190 cruising at 75 mph. If I drop my speed to 65 it will go to 188. All this, and my condenser fan isn't even working right now. New radiator, fan clutch, 180F thermostat.
Now mine was at 212-217 during my drive home from CO to UT in the winter time before I learned those numbers are way high. After I replaced the above, the temps have been great. Without full on armchair diagnosing, my money is on the fan(s) not working well, the radiator is clogged (half of mine was cold, half was hot), or the absolute nightmare of a clogged coolant passage in the head(s) or block.
Fan clutch is brand new, and I actually put on a second new one for good measures. The second new clutch was put on last night at the same time as the new water pump. So I'm pretty certain I can rule the fan clutch assembly out as an issue. The AC condenser fan is brand new as well, and working as it should too. The only thing I haven't checked is the coolant sensor, and I'm not feeling confident about that.
I've thought the engine having a clog, or even a cracked liner. I think a cracked liner is more likely sine the high temps happened so fast. I would think a clog would have been something that we would have noticed from the beginning. I hate to say this, but this may be something we end up walking away from. We don't have the time to pull the engine apart to dig into it, and I'm not really wanting to do that either. After the amount of time I spent putting everything together, and really taking my time on it. I honestly have no desire to pull it apart.
I'm not sure about a warranty, but that's something that I'm looking into at this point.
I was just informed that if I take a heating reading of the manifold where my sensor is that I should only have a +/-3-5 degree difference between there, and my UltraGauge. After taking a reading I have a 10 degree or more difference between the two. So this might be something to look at, and of course no where local has it so I'll be waiting a few more days for it.
Longtallsally
Adventurer
Yeah, I've loosely followed your thread and would be totally bummed for you to throw in the towel. For reference, I've still got a persistent P1117 code despite changing both sensors. However, I think my upper one is incorrect as I don't think both terminals are plugged in.
Don't rule out your radiator either, though. As it's summer, it will be harder to test, but I did the highly technical test of getting the engine up to temp and using my hand to see if part of it was cold part hot. Sure enough, that was the case (easy to tell since it was winter) and the moment I did the radiator with the 180 t stat, temps dropped close to 20 degrees.
And yeah, since you've got a brand new motor, that would totally suck if something was messed up there. With all the time and effort you've put in as well serious cash, I sure hope you don't get screwed.
Don't rule out your radiator either, though. As it's summer, it will be harder to test, but I did the highly technical test of getting the engine up to temp and using my hand to see if part of it was cold part hot. Sure enough, that was the case (easy to tell since it was winter) and the moment I did the radiator with the 180 t stat, temps dropped close to 20 degrees.
And yeah, since you've got a brand new motor, that would totally suck if something was messed up there. With all the time and effort you've put in as well serious cash, I sure hope you don't get screwed.