How important is GVWR?

[bkg]

Good point. I should have qualified my comment by saying many manufactures under-rate the load capacities of the overall frame and vehicle platform.

For example, my 08 4runner 4.7 is rated to tow 7000lbs. In my opinion the stock rear suspension would not suffice with 700lbs of tongue weight leveraged behind the rear axle. The OME heavy springs and shocks plus the E Rated tires that I have will absolutely suffice, however. Especially with weight distributing hitch and air bags.

Bare in mind, Axle load rating is a limiting factor on our light duty platforms. The Travel trailer that i’n purchasing next summer, when fully laden will be 1200-odd pounds below tow rating but will kiss the gross combined vehicle weight rating due to the increased weight of my modified truck. All within spec, but it will really work the truck’s rear axle, differential and wheel bearings. Not to mention brakes.

Did I read you correctly? You said mfg’s under rate but then suggest the 4Runner is over rated...

 

[Neosapian]

I disagree. Todays trucks are overrated. Max them out and they're dragging tail with no weight on the front axle at all. I've experienced all kinds of trucks lose almost all front axle braking due to overloading. They just lock the front up and go straight to ABS.

Unlevel trucks are a danger to everyone.

Good point. I should have qualified my comment by saying many manufactures under-rate the load capacities of the overall frame and vehicle platform.

For example, my p8 4runner 4.7 is rated to tow 7000lbs. In my opinion the stock rear suspension would not suffice with 700lbs of tongue weight leveraged behind the rear axle. The OME heavy springs and shocks plus the E Rated tires that I have will absolutely suffice, however. Especially with weight distributing hitch and air bags.

Bare in mind, axle load rating is a factor on our light duty platforms. The Travel trailer that i’m purchasing next summer, when fully laden will be 1300-odd pounds below tow rating but will kiss the gross combined vehicle weight rating due to increased weight of my modified vehicle.

 

[Neosapian]

Did I read you correctly? You said mfg’s under rate but then suggest the 4Runner is over rated...

I dont doubt that the truck as a platform can perform at or above its advertised ratings. Im suggesting that the 4runner’s stock rear suspension would not be ideal at Toyota’s 700lbs tongue weight rating.

What a truck is technically capable of and what is practical/ideal are two seperate considerations in my opinion.

 

[s.e.charles]

… owner who overloads his pickup by 500 lbs is no safer nor smarter than a big-rig driver who overloads by a few thousand lbs (both are overloaded by a relatively small margin compared to their standard GVWR). And quite frankly, simply upgrading the suspension and tires … does not magically make it safer to accept heavier payloads....there is quite a bit of OEM engineering and testing that goes into those ratings.

perfect. amazing how many guys that can change oil & shocks know more than teams of credentialed engineers.

 

[Neosapian]

perfect. amazing how many guys that can change oil & shocks know more than teams of credentialed engineers.

Credentialed attorneys and marketing staff as well engineers. Manufacture’s advertised load ratings must indeed satisfy perameters established internally to protect the company’s legal liability as well as preserve continuity within the product range while remaining competive within the truck’s market segment.

These GVWR and other load figures are not entirely determined or published by engineers.

 

[s.e.charles]

Credentialed attorneys and marketing staff as well engineers. Manufacture’s advertised load ratings must indeed satisfy perameters established internally to protect the company’s legal liability as well as preserve continuity within the product range while remaining competive within the truck’s market segment.

These GVWR and other load figures are not entirely determined or published by engineers.

of course not. nothing exists in a vacuum. . .

 

[rruff]

So what I am trying to say here is my real world experience calls BS on your statement. And you need to check the vehicle testing for medium duty and heavy vehicles. There are plenty of safety standards that are regulated via DOT.

Then show me the relevant safety standards. How about just stopping distance and accident avoidance? And compare these to a Tacoma. It won't be close.

Again, I disagree. Those bigger trucks (I'm assuming you're referring more to the semi-trucks and HD pickups that are used for commercial applications) actually have far more regulations to abide by than just your average joe who hooks up a trailer to his Toyota or Ford pickup..

Yes, commercial drivers are better (on average) but we are talking about *vehicles* not drivers. And even that rationalization falls apart when you look at the ubiquitous monster RV... that in most states requires nothing more than a basic driver's license. What objective *safety* standard is that RV passing, that the expedition Tacoma is failing?

 

[Dalko43]

Then show me the relevant safety standards. How about just stopping distance and accident avoidance? And compare these to a Tacoma. It won't be close.



Yes, commercial drivers are better (on average) but we are talking about *vehicles* not drivers. And even that rationalization falls apart when you look at the ubiquitous monster RV... that in most states requires nothing more than a basic driver's license. What objective *safety* standard is that RV passing, that the expedition Tacoma is failing?

Go reread what i wrote. I wasn't just talking about driver proficiency. Commercial vehicles over a certain weight do have more stringent DOT regulations to abide by (including regulations that pertain to towing and payload) that do non-commercial vehicles. That's why if you go look at some of the aftermarket offerings for 1 ton trucks (which can fall within commercial category depending on what they're towing) you see the vendors advertising that their products as 'DOT-compliant.'

Non-commercial vehicles may have payload and tow ratings listed on their door sticker, but they generally don't have nearly as much regulation requiring that drivers adhere to such ratings.

Overload your Tacoma if you want to. Just don't kid yourself into thinking that doing so is somehow safe or smart because big-rig drivers supposedly do the same thing or worse...it's a faulty logic.

 

[tacollie]

I still feel like people overload their Tacomas modestly and are aware of what they are doing is safe. My buddy with a 4wheel camper on his Tacoma isn't rushing anybody's life. He has better lead spring, tires, and shocks. He also drives conservatively. That's safe than anyone in a stock truck with worn out tires doing 75. When people overload their trucks and don't know what they are doing is when problems happen. Just like rv owners who don't know what they are doing. The risk isn't being over GVWR it not know what it means to be over GVWR. If your truck is going to be modestly over weight plan accordingly. If it's going to be excessively overweight buy a different vehicle.

 

[Buliwyf]

I see a dozen POS chevy's with their headlights aimed at the moon and their rear suspension resting on the bumpstops, for every properly equipped truck.

Today I passed a brand new Expedition pulling a 26' travel trailer. Not even close to level. I'd love to see them stop in the rain. Same morons that tell us it ''drives fine''. I guess they didn't notice that while the tow rating may be 10,000#, the GVWR only allows for 2.5 pounds of tongue weight. Lol. If you close the lid on the cooler too hard the truck bottoms out.

 

[Ozrockrat]

Modestly overloaded! Do you actually know how overloaded? Show us the weigh bridge papers for your truck fully loaded as you head out camping/traveling. With you and the rest of whatever crew travels with you.

 

[rruff]

Commercial vehicles over a certain weight do have more stringent DOT regulations to abide by (including regulations that pertain to towing and payload) that do non-commercial vehicles.

Who cares? If an overloaded Tacoma stops quicker and dodges obstacles better than that "stringently regulated vehicle", then which is safer?

The point that I keep trying to make that gets ignored is that GVWR on pickups isn't a "safety rating". With a little bit of common sense (suspension and tire upgrades) you can well exceed GVWR and still be safer than a lot of legal vehicles on the road. Your wheel bearings might wear out long before you'd like, but that's another matter.

 

[Neosapian]

Who cares? If an overloaded Tacoma stops quicker and dodges obstacles better than that "stringently regulated vehicle", then which is safer?

The point that I keep trying to make that gets ignored is that GVWR on pickups isn't a "safety rating". With a little bit of common sense (suspension and tire upgrades) you can well exceed GVWR and still be safer than a lot of legal vehicles on the road. Your wheel bearings might wear out long before you'd like, but that's another matter.

Well said. This is demonstrated by a whole variety of modified and heavily laden trucks which run safely and reliably for many many hard miles.

Again, GVWR is determined by taking into consideration the capability and strength of many components. These can include a vehicle’s tires, brakes, hubs, axles, shocks, springs, steering, engine, cooling, transmission, and differentials. The added to the mix are product marketing and legal considerations.

An end user can manipulate the safe and reasonable weight capacity of a vehicle by reconfiguring a number of aforementioned components in addition to adjusting cruising speed and driving habits to suit the rig’s load and road conditions.

 

[bkg]

Who cares? If an overloaded Tacoma stops quicker and dodges obstacles better than that "stringently regulated vehicle", then which is safer?

The point that I keep trying to make that gets ignored is that GVWR on pickups isn't a "safety rating". With a little bit of common sense (suspension and tire upgrades) you can well exceed GVWR and still be safer than a lot of legal vehicles on the road. Your wheel bearings might wear out long before you'd like, but that's another matter.

That’s a bit of an confident statement... you’re mixing words, redefining other words, and making a lot of assumptions. Comparing apples and squirrels.

Regardless, using your own logic, and overloaded Toyota is less safe than an underloaded Toyota.

A lot of people arguing with ego instead of with logic in this thread.

 

[Dalko43]

Again, GVWR is determined by taking into consideration the capability and strength of many components. These can include a vehicle’s tires, brakes, hubs, axles, shocks, springs, steering, engine, cooling, transmission, and differentials. The added to the mix are product marketing and legal considerations.

An end user can manipulate the safe and reasonable weight capacity of a vehicle by reconfiguring a number of aforementioned components in addition to adjusting cruising speed and driving habits to suit the rig’s load and road conditions.

Yes, but as @rruff just demonstrated, the average 'end user' is likely to change out tires and suspension and assume that it's okay to overload the vehicle.

As you correctly point out, there are many components (other than just tires and suspension) that engineers factored into those ratings. Toyota, out of all the truck OEM's, is arguably the most diligent and scientific in assigning their tow and payload ratings. Unlike a lot of other OEM's, Toyota actually adheres to certain SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) standards which test a vehicle's capabilities in a variety of driving conditions (to include towing). This again contradicts certain peoples' claims that there really is no testing and safety intentions behind OEM payload/towing ratings.

Lawyers and and marketing guru's have some say in assigning the vehicle's ratings, for sure. But the engineer's recommendations form the basis for those ratings...that much is beyond debate.

Could an owner theoretically research the engineering that went into all of the main chassis and powertrain components and upgrade all the necessary parts in order to effectively and safely raise a vehicle's GVWR? Yes, probably.

Does the average owner have the time and intellectual enthusiasm to actually do all of that? Probably not.