How important is GVWR?

[s.e.charles]

maybe a better question is: why do we need so much crap to have a good time?

 

[rruff]

This popped on my FB feed.
https://www.truckcampermagazine.com/camper-tech/systems/how-tow-with-a-truck-camper-rig/

“You are endangering others if you are overloaded. None of us want to be a contributing factor to someone’s injuries or loss of life.”

If it gets repeated often enough, does that make it true?

 

[Clutch]

“You are endangering others if you are overloaded. None of us want to be a contributing factor to someone’s injuries or loss of life.”

If it gets repeated often enough, does that make it true?

Unfortunately I think it is the other way around...people telling themselves "We aren't overloaded, it will be fine!"

 

[rruff]

Unfortunately I think it is the other way around...people telling themselves "We aren't overloaded, it will be fine!"

True that! But underloaded big trucks, trailers, and RVs are much less maneuverable, have longer stopping distances, and are a much bigger danger to others than your typical pickup driver who is over GVWR. It isn't a safety issue (relatively) unless you are stupid about it. And that can happen at <GVWR too.

 

[Dalko43]

True that! But underloaded big trucks, trailers, and RVs are much less maneuverable, have longer stopping distances, and are a much bigger danger to others than your typical pickup driver who is over GVWR. It isn't a safety issue (relatively) unless you are stupid about it. And that can happen at <GVWR too.

I think that logic is flawed.

Of course it's hard to profile a driver's safety purely based on the weight of his/her vehicle. But I would argue if someone took the time to read, understand and abide by their vehicle's rated tow and payload capacities, he/she is the type of person who is more conscientious of his/her driving safety and of others.

This whole conversation seems a bit unnecessary in this day and age. With multiple pickup trucks in every category, there are no lack of options for someone who wants to carry a certain amount of weight. I.e. if you want a 4x4 Toyota pickup that can carry a traditional camper + a bit of extra gear (totaling in excess of 1.3k lbs), get a Tundra; Tacoma's just don't have the payload capacity to carry that kind of load...it's fairly plain and simple.

 

[bkg]

True that! But Overloaded trucks and SUVs are much less maneuverable, have longer stopping distances, and are a much bigger danger to others than your typical pickup driver who is under GVWR.

Just taking it to the next logical position...

One thing that I literally get angry about is seeing people overload trailers, especially utility and landscape trailers. Drives me up a wall! I think part of the problem is the average person’s complete inability to do basic math...

 

[bkg]

I think that logic is flawed.

Of course it's hard to profile a driver's safety purely based on the weight of his/her vehicle. But I would argue if someone took the time to read, understand and abide by their vehicle's rated tow and payload capacities, he/she is the type of person who is more conscientious of his/her driving safety and of others.

This whole conversation seems a bit unnecessary in this day and age. With multiple pickup trucks in every category, there are no lack of options for someone who wants to carry a certain amount of weight. I.e. if you want a 4x4 Toyota pickup that can carry a traditional camper + a bit of extra gear (totaling in excess of 1.3k lbs), get a Tundra; Tacoma's just don't have the payload capacity to carry that kind of load...it's fairly plain and simple.

You’re assuming the truck buyer does remedial math when determining their needs. ?

 

[Dalko43]

You’re assuming the truck buyer does remedial math when determining their needs. ?

A sarcastic, but still somewhat valid, point.

I think the better way to phrase the distinction that @rruff was getting at is: there are those owners who are aware of their truck's rated capacities, and there are those who aren't aware of those capacities.

 

[s.e.charles]

it ain't just the Lance Mansionairre mounted on the RAM Dingle-Doolie 3500 either.

to wit:

I've just returned from my daily 4.5 mile round trip expedition to the post office. for the first leg of my journey, I was stuck behind a Toyota. yup; a Prius. loaded right down to the gunnels: two bikes on a rear rack practically dragging their tires, and another bike on the roof rack. sucker was teetering 6" right to left for the whole time. ***

so a grand total of 75#, plus I am assuming 3 occupants, and that piece o' tin was severely loaded and affecting its safe operation.

*** all bikes mentioned are BICYCLES

 

[Buliwyf]

The topic of GVWR is not frequently considered in the overland community. So this thread really interest me.

Truth is a vast majority of fully built Jeeps and Toyotas are indeed loaded well beyond GVWR. The full scoop on how auto manufactures test, measure and ultimately rate their vehicles load capacities is not entirely known to the general public and is widely debated especially in the full size pickup and RV communities where even dual rear wheel diesel owners often exceed their GVWR and GCVWR. A bigger truck doesn't always solve the problem.

Suffice to say a RAM 3500 with a 30,000lbs tow rating will perform fine loaded beyond its rated capacities, just as a Tacoma will perform fine loaded beyond its rated capacities for many miles over many years, on many terrains for many owners. Its reasonable to assume that most manufactures "under rate" their vehicles for reliability, liability, and warranty concerns as well as other regulatory factors that none of us completely understand.

And what about axle load ratings and how it all interacts with tire load capacity, load distribution,trailer tongue weight, brakes and suspension configuration? What about common sense?
9
My primary concern is personal legal liability. If Im involved in an automobile accident that an attorney or insurance company could associate with my vehicle being loaded beyond its GVWR or GCVWR, I could be in trouble. To me this is obvious but for many it's not an issue. So be it.



Here's something I saw last week at a rest stop in Skagit County, on Interstate 5... An entire household worth of stuff strapped to a Passat Wagon. HAHA!

I disagree. Todays trucks are overrated. Max them out and they're dragging tail with no weight on the front axle at all. I've experienced all kinds of trucks lose almost all front axle braking due to overloading. They just lock the front up and go straight to ABS.

Unlevel trucks are a danger to everyone.

 

[rruff]

I think that logic is flawed. Of course it's hard to profile a driver's safety purely based on the weight of his/her vehicle. But I would argue if someone took the time to read, understand and abide by their vehicle's rated tow and payload capacities, he/she is the type of person who is more conscientious of his/her driving safety and of others.

I'm not talking about profiling. These big vehicles (trucks, RV,s, trailers, etc) have much longer stopping distances, maneuever like pigs, and will flip over more easily than a typical Tacoma expedition rig that is 500 lbs over GVWR, and has beefed up his suspension and tires. There isn't a "safety standard" related to GVWR that vehicles are required to meet. If there was, and all those big vehicles could meet it (slalom, accident avoidance, stopping distance, cross wind stability), then the overloaded Tacoma would pass with flying colors.

 

[Dalko43]

I'm not talking about profiling. These big vehicles (trucks, RV,s, trailers, etc) have much longer stopping distances, maneuever like pigs, and will flip over more easily than a typical Tacoma expedition rig that is 500 lbs over GVWR, and has beefed up his suspension and tires. There isn't a "safety standard" related to GVWR that vehicles are required to meet. If there was, and all those big vehicles could meet it (slalom, accident avoidance, stopping distance, cross wind stability), then the overloaded Tacoma would pass with flying colors.

Again, I disagree. Those bigger trucks (I'm assuming you're referring more to the semi-trucks and HD pickups that are used for commercial applications) actually have far more regulations to abide by than just your average joe who hooks up a trailer to his Toyota or Ford pickup. Weigh-in's, driver sleep rules, additional DOT regulations on vehicle configuration and operation. Now granted, there might be some drivers who ignore those rules, but they still exist....and the non-commercial vehicles and drivers can't be compared in that regard.

There actually are GVWR standards that those bigger trucks are expected to abide by. And unlike the non-commercial truck owners, those commercial operators face stiff punishments for violating those standards, especially if that violation results in an accident.

A Tacoma owner who overloads his pickup by 500 lbs is no safer nor smarter than a big-rig driver who overloads by a few thousand lbs (both are overloaded by a relatively small margin compared to their standard GVWR). And quite frankly, simply upgrading the suspension and tires on a Tacoma does not magically make it safer to accept heavier payloads....there is quite a bit of OEM engineering and testing that goes into those ratings.

 

[Ozrockrat]

I'm not talking about profiling. These big vehicles (trucks, RV,s, trailers, etc) have much longer stopping distances, maneuever like pigs, and will flip over more easily than a typical Tacoma expedition rig that is 500 lbs over GVWR, and has beefed up his suspension and tires. There isn't a "safety standard" related to GVWR that vehicles are required to meet. If there was, and all those big vehicles could meet it (slalom, accident avoidance, stopping distance, cross wind stability), then the overloaded Tacoma would pass with flying colors.

Do you a lot of experience with big vehicles?

My current rig is about 2 ton under its capacity in the current configuration. Front axle has 45 degree steer (better turning circle than a long wheelbase 4WD pickup) and much better brakes than any of my van or 4WD (land cruisers , jeeps etc). Plus it has ABS and a massive sway bar on the rear.

I used to manage a fleet of vehicle that consisted mainly of Hilux’s and landcruisers. These were all used mainly off pavement. We had to retro fit roll cages to the hilux’s because they kept falling over. That is without any extra gear and dodads hanging off roof racks.

So what I am trying to say here is my real world experience calls BS on your statement. And you need to check the vehicle testing for medium duty and heavy vehicles. There are plenty of safety standards that are regulated via DOT.

 

[Neosapian]

I disagree. Todays trucks are overrated. Max them out and they're dragging tail with no weight on the front axle at all. I've experienced all kinds of trucks lose almost all front axle braking due to overloading. They just lock the front up and go straight to ABS.

Unlevel trucks are a danger to everyone.

Good point. I should have qualified my comment by saying many manufactures under-rate the load capacities of the overall frame and vehicle platform.

For example, my 08 4runner 4.7 is rated to tow 7000lbs. In my opinion the stock rear suspension would not suffice with 700lbs of tongue weight leveraged behind the rear axle. The OME heavy springs and shocks plus the E Rated tires that I have will absolutely suffice, however. Especially with weight distributing hitch and air bags.

Bare in mind, Axle load rating is a limiting factor on our light duty platforms. The Travel trailer that i’n purchasing next summer, when fully laden will be 1200-odd pounds below tow rating but will kiss the gross combined vehicle weight rating due to the increased weight of my modified truck. All within spec, but it will really work the truck’s rear axle, differential and wheel bearings. Not to mention brakes.

 

[Buliwyf]

Make sure you add tongue wt to the trucks wt to see where you stand within the GVWR. I want 20% on that tongue so the trailer won't porpoise the truck.