Do you feel the need to have a weapon when camping

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Christophe Noel

Expedition Leader
Typical reaction, it only matters if it happens to you.
That's not true at all.

I was recently lambasted by one of my friends who is an advocate of carrying when ever allowed. He went so far as to say I'm foolish, reckless, and destined to be the target of some violent exchange ending in my demise. He said, "If you don't protect yourself, you'll die." I asked him if he had a carbon monoxide detector in his house. He said no. Never mind that 6,000 people have died of carbon monoxide poisoning in the last ten years. I asked if he had airbags in his '78 FJ, which of course he doesn't. He's simply choosing to place importance on certain potential dangers, which we all do, and it's perfectly okay.

Everyone makes choices relative to their defense against certain perceived dangers. Choosing to not place a life threatening violent encounter as high on your individual list of concerns somewhat falls in line with many other life choices.
 

calicamper

Expedition Leader
That's not true at all.

I was recently lambasted by one of my friends who is an advocate of carrying when ever allowed. He went so far as to say I'm foolish, reckless, and destined to be the target of some violent exchange ending in my demise. He said, "If you don't protect yourself, you'll die." I asked him if he had a carbon monoxide detector in his house. He said no. Never mind that 6,000 people have died of carbon monoxide poisoning in the last ten years. I asked if he had airbags in his '78 FJ, which of course he doesn't. He's simply choosing to place importance on certain potential dangers, which we all do, and it's perfectly okay.

Everyone makes choices relative to their defense against certain perceived dangers. Choosing to not place a life threatening violent encounter as high on your individual list of concerns somewhat falls in line with many other life choices.
60's and 70's we packed a little pistol with us on all the back country trips simply to generate noise. The hippies all thought they could live off the land which apparently ment raid campsites. So we would simply set up camp then go sit on the ridge and wait for it. When they showed up we would fire a few rounds off and that was it end of any sort of issue with our camp being bothered.

All the super adventurous folks I know talking world cruisers by sailboat and world travelers by foot, bike car whatever none of them pack guns given all of them seem to have the same response when asked. It invites a whole different level of issues that are far worse than anything they come across being unarmed. Granted they don't go traveling into places looking for trouble either.

Given we live in the US which is pretty much Disney Land for free roaming with no major concerns regarding military or rogue police harassing you etc it makes little sense to think anyone needs to pack a weapon for self preservation. As pointed out if the very very odd ball slim chance random act of violence worries you then the statistics for auto accidents should put you in a near coma of fear just trying to get to your desired location. LOL

Pack a gun if you like its the American WAY! But I suspect the number of people who don't feel the need to have one as protection FAR FAR FAR out number those that do. Even more so outside the US.
 

UpperCrust

Building and Learning
I carry everywhere I go. But im a cop so I always am waiting for the violent confrontation with my family present. But in regards to camping. I am more worried about a human vs human altercation than with a bear or similar. But then again i've had such a confrontation camping with my family. A panhandler tried to strong arm me into buying something as we sat in our campsite.
 

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calicamper

Expedition Leader
Lol yea.. The law enforcement folk Im close too. Pack heat because they have crossed paths with hard cases they arrested in the past. A homeless dude giving you lip if you really are law enforcement I hope your boss doesnt read your posts. No law enforcement draw unless they plan on a shoot. You'd need to walk around SF pointing your gun at every other person you see on the curb with that take on things.
 

K2ZJ

Explorer
Lol yea.. The law enforcement folk Im close too. Pack heat because they have crossed paths with hard cases they arrested in the past. A homeless dude giving you lip if you really are law enforcement I hope your boss doesnt read your posts. No law enforcement draw unless they plan on a shoot. You'd need to walk around SF pointing your gun at every other person you see on the curb with that take on things.
If his boss reads it I hope he doesn't read the part that's not there. You know, the part where it says anything about what he did with his gun. The leo's I know are required to carry outside of work.
 

UpperCrust

Building and Learning
Never pulled my gun off duty. Never hope too. But this was no homeless guy you have in San Fran; this was your Reservation gang member. But not hear to get into a discussion about whatever. The thread asks if I feel I need have a weapon while camping. My answer is YES, and I added a sort story to go along with my reasoning. Take it as you will.

If his boss reads it I hope he doesn't read the part that's not there. You know, the part where it says anything about what he did with his gun. The leo's I know are required to carry outside of work.
 

K2ZJ

Explorer
Never pulled my gun off duty. Never hope too. But this was no homeless guy you have in San Fran; this was your Reservation gang member. But not hear to get into a discussion about whatever. The thread asks if I feel I need have a weapon while camping. My answer is YES, and I added a sort story to go along with my reasoning. Take it as you will.
I was saying the same thing with more sarcasm. You said you carry a gun and described you had an encounter while camping. It was interpreted as you had pulled your gun on a harmless bum.
 

chet6.7

Explorer
[h=2]strong-arm[/h] (strông′ärm′) Informal adj. Using physical force or coercion: strong-arm tactics.

tr.v. strong-armed, strong-arm·ing, strong-arms 1. To use physical force or coercion against.
2. To rob by force.



"It was interpreted as you had pulled your gun on a harmless bum."

The term "strong arm" has meaning,I don't interpret it as harmless.

"No law enforcement draw unless they plan on a shoot."

Really? I would reword that to not drawing unless they are willing to shoot.
 

K2ZJ

Explorer
Lol yea.. The law enforcement folk Im close too. Pack heat because they have crossed paths with hard cases they arrested in the past. A homeless dude giving you lip if you really are law enforcement I hope your boss doesnt read your posts. No law enforcement draw unless they plan on a shoot. You'd need to walk around SF pointing your gun at every other person you see on the curb with that take on things.
[h=2]strong-arm[/h] (strông′ärm′) Informal adj. Using physical force or coercion: strong-arm tactics.

tr.v. strong-armed, strong-arm·ing, strong-arms 1. To use physical force or coercion against.
2. To rob by force.



"It was interpreted as you had pulled your gun on a harmless bum."

The term "strong arm" has meaning,I don't interpret it as harmless.

"No law enforcement draw unless they plan on a shoot."

Really? I would reword that to not drawing unless they are willing to shoot.
Chet, I highlighted the section I am referring to. I found Calicamper's interpretation of and reaction to the story amusing.
 

wagex

Adventurer
i bring my .22 rifle normally, its big enough to take care of any troubles around here as we dont have any bears or large predators besides rumoured mountian lions wich seem more and more like bigfoot lol everyone swears they see them but no confirmations. but .22 is plenty to deter a coyote or racoon or what ever is being intrusive. if anything rattle snakes and copperheads are the scariest things here and ive never seen one while out camping.
 

fike

Adventurer
I'm not a fan of open carry of firearms. There is a time and a place for everything, but on public land, firearms carry and use needs to be closely monitored. Any minor altercation has the potential to become deadly when firearms are present. You know what they say, "when all you have is a hammer, everything is a nail."

I have bear pepper spray which could conceivably be used for self defense in a pinch, but nobody is likely to get killed with that.
 
J

JWP58

Guest
, "when all you have is a hammer, everything is a nail."

I believe that people who throw this saying out there are actually fearful of other people because: They know deep down they personally don't have enough self control or personal responsibility, and fear others are just like them. They don't trust themselves with a firearm, so why should they trust someone else.

I walk around for dozens of hours every week with a gun on my hip. I've never drawn it out of anger. I've never drawn without justified reasons. Why? Because I have self control and personal responsibility.
 

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GregSplett

Adventurer
I believe that people who throw this saying out there are actually fearful of other people because: They know deep down they personally don't have enough self control or personal responsibility, and fear others are just like them. They don't trust themselves with a firearm, so why should they trust someone else.

I walk around for dozens of hours every week with a gun on my hip. I've never drawn it out of anger. I've never drawn without justified reasons. Why? Because I have self control and personal responsibility.
I agree .some people thought process is emotionally controlled some process a critical thought process.A lot depends on how you were raised.
 

Scott Brady

Founder
I understand exactly what you mean. Everyone prepares for all types of threats in different ways. I recently saw a guy at a stoplight here in Prescott on a Harley with a gigantic hand canon on his hip. No helmet. Maybe he had the gun because he liked the weight of it and didn't have it for protection. Who knows. I didn't ask, or feel the need to apply an assumption. Not wearing a helmet...is a poor choice for obvious and statistical reasons.

I don't think you need a crystal ball to foresee all inherent dangers, nor do I think people chose to protect themselves from all dangers.

At the root of it, there's another talking point that often gets overlooked. Some people simply like having a gun. At the same time, others simply do not. It doesn't always have to imply some profound position on rights, threats, or intrinsic assertions about one's personality or disposition.
I think Christophe makes a few important points.

1. Every activity has risks and odds. Carrying a firearm with proper training and practice can lower your risks of being a victim, but the chances of becoming a victim with other training and preparation is extremely low. I carry concealed nearly every day when working and traveling in Arizona. I have extensive training (including being former active duty military) and I practice regularly. Not just paper target practice, but complex scenario, run and gun stuff. I expect myself to be proficient with the tool. For me personally, I make the choice to take advantage of the rights afforded to me, get training and practice. In the extremely unlikely event that I am attacked, I have an excellent chance of defending myself. That being said, the chance of me being attacked is extremely low, and most of my travels are international where I can't carry a gun anyways. As a result, I totally get why someone would chose not to carry a gun- it does compute.

2. Some people just like guns: I happen to be one of them (I have more safes filled with guns then most people have individual firearms). I like guns and I enjoy recreational shooting and training. I trap shoot, hunt, target shoot and match shoot. I enjoy firearms and I feel that the 2nd. Amendment is an important right- my votes reflect that. However, I also have many, many friends that do not own guns. Several of them hate guns. I respect their view. Remember, both sides of an argument can have merit.

This has brought me to a few conclusions as a gun owner and concealed carry advocate.

1. I am less likely to become a victim by carrying a gun and being proficient in its use. That is simply a fact, and beyond debate. My ability to carry concealed is currently legal and I hope it remains so. If the voting populace changes those laws, I will not have a tantrum. I will be sad when the suppressors and other toys are crushed, but I am not going to to spaz out. I believe in democracy, both when it helps me and hurts me- good and the bad, as the majority defines.

2. Gun owners can be extremely childish, as can staunch anti-gun advocates. Both sides are convinced the other is wrong- truth is, they are both wrong. Both solutions are flawed, but I am happy to ascribe to the flawed solution that gives me some control over the outcome of an attack. If someone doesn't like guns, who cares. If someone chooses not to carry a gun while overlanding, who cares. It their life, their choices. I know several idiots that carry guns (most of them open carry) that would be far better off unarmed. Are people so insecure that they need to shame others that don't advocate exactly what they believe- "You don't carry a gun? You some kind of liberal commie!?!?". "No, actually I could care less about guns and would rather spend the time and money traveling to Fiji and let the odds play out- mmmmmcay"

Carry a gun: Good for you (and you darn well better learn how to really shoot it)
Don't carry a gun: Good for you, it is probably nice to not have a five pound hunk of a 1911 not jabbing you in the side 365 days a year. ;)

3. I have travelled in super dangerous places without a gun, because I cannot carry a gun there. It didn't bother me, I just handled the situation with a new set of rules and strategies. People that think a gun somehow magically makes them safe is laughable. However, the right gun, lots of training, lots of practice, an extensive scenario strategy and tons of procedures does make you more capable of defending yourself when it really hits the fan.


Amen! Oh, and PEW
 
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