dirtyrotten
New member
I know this is an old thread on the stoves. I had to reply that this answered a few of my questions. Very informative. Thanks
Diff in coleman dual fuel stoves
- Thread starter zimflux
- Start date
pixelcodex
Observer
I know I am once again reviving an old thread but, although I learned a lot as well as I usually do on Expo threads, I had more questions. I have been scouring CL for a dual fuel Coleman, and today I picked one up for what Andrew said: $20. It's in good shape, but I want to clean it and test fire tomorrow. I will look around locally for Coleman fuel but wanted to know the opinion of others if it would work, if at all, with a Methanol based fuel like the yellow Heet. I know that is used in a lot by the light backpacking community in Granjia type stoves. It is easily available, comes in small-practical bottles and burns clean. Any thoughts on that? Thanks.
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You will be able to find white gas. WalMart is a good source but even Ace Hardware carries it. A better substitute than Methanol would be just regular gasoline from the pump. It will seriously work fine.
My prediction-over time you will come to like and then rely on your Coleman stove. They are better at being a camp stoves than any alternative. Coleman nailed the mechanics of camp stoves 75 or more years ago and the design still works great today.
Hit me up if you need help getting it running. You will likely need a cap gasket, a pump rebuild, and possibly a generator. Which model did you get?
My prediction-over time you will come to like and then rely on your Coleman stove. They are better at being a camp stoves than any alternative. Coleman nailed the mechanics of camp stoves 75 or more years ago and the design still works great today.
Hit me up if you need help getting it running. You will likely need a cap gasket, a pump rebuild, and possibly a generator. Which model did you get?
pixelcodex
Observer
I got a Powerhouse 414-700. It's in really good shape, the only thing missing being the little funnel, but I have a r Funnel which I am sure I can use. I have not been able to test fire it yet, so I am not sure if I need the gaskets and all that you mention. If I do, which sources online do you recommend? I did find some Coleman fuel locally at an Ace, but it was $15 a gallon! (did not make it to Walmart yet). I have been reading as much as I could find online since, to see what people have used as alternatives. It seems the virtues an selling points of the Coleman stuff is it burns cleaner and lasts forever. I read stories of people finding the stove from their childhood 30 years later, and it still fired up. Of course unleaded won't last a fraction of that, but might be worth it, even if I need to dispose it, provided it doesn't coat the insides with varnish if I "forget it." Which brings me to my next questions for the experts:
I always thought of Premium gas (besides having the anti detonation additives) as more refined than regular, but maybe that is just a perception. Of course the one more readily available is one with added ethanol. Should I try to find some without? I found a list online, though I have not visited any station (pure-gas.org)
Also, should I add any additives? I had thought of Sta-bil for the gas to keep better, but not sure what that would do in terms of gumming it up. I read also of somebody adding just a bit of Heet so that it absorbs the moisture in the gas.
Lastly, I read of people complaining of food tasting like gas when using unleaded. Is there any truth to that? I know gas does have more VOCs, but have no experience with white gas. Also, with a lot of health concerns and crap these days, do I need to worry about those vapors?
And now for the mandatory picture (isn't a thread with no pics less entertaining somehow?)
Congrats on a great stove. Likely late 1980s. Date will be stamped on the back of the case and on the back of the tank tabs.
While $10-$15 sounds like a lot for fuel, for most people that's at least a year's supply. Walmart usually has it around $10 but it seems to vary.
If you use RUG (regular unleaded gasoline), I'd just empty the tank in the off season and otherwise not worry about it. Once the stove is up to temp and generating cleanly, there is basically no smell. No difference in a stove between regular and premium.
While you're messing with it and figuring it out, use regular gas. When you go on a trip, fill it with white gas. Overall, you'll be happier with white gas or Coleman fuel.
For parts: oldcolemanparts.com, or lonestarlantern on ebay.
Since that stove is nearly 30 years old, I would replace the cap gasket, and likely the pump leather. If the pump has the neoprene piece in place of the leather, it will likely be hard and non-functional. Again, I'd renew it so it doesn't let you down on a trip. You can and should replace the neoprene pump seal with a leather one, which will last the rest of your life.
You may find these links helpful:
https://www.oldcolemanparts.com/resources/ops.php
https://www.oldcolemanparts.com/resources/re_stove.php
While $10-$15 sounds like a lot for fuel, for most people that's at least a year's supply. Walmart usually has it around $10 but it seems to vary.
If you use RUG (regular unleaded gasoline), I'd just empty the tank in the off season and otherwise not worry about it. Once the stove is up to temp and generating cleanly, there is basically no smell. No difference in a stove between regular and premium.
While you're messing with it and figuring it out, use regular gas. When you go on a trip, fill it with white gas. Overall, you'll be happier with white gas or Coleman fuel.
For parts: oldcolemanparts.com, or lonestarlantern on ebay.
Since that stove is nearly 30 years old, I would replace the cap gasket, and likely the pump leather. If the pump has the neoprene piece in place of the leather, it will likely be hard and non-functional. Again, I'd renew it so it doesn't let you down on a trip. You can and should replace the neoprene pump seal with a leather one, which will last the rest of your life.
You may find these links helpful:
https://www.oldcolemanparts.com/resources/ops.php
https://www.oldcolemanparts.com/resources/re_stove.php
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pixelcodex
Observer
Wow! That's pretty impressive! I feel like I am on an episode of Antiques Roadshow: The Expo edition! Sadly I could not confirm nor deny your info. I could not find a stamp or sticker of any sort anywhere.
That makes sense about the white gas. I was just not sure how much they consume.
Great info on the parts website, and the resources. I will read up a bit on what I need to take apart to replace the bits you mentioned. I am not even familiar on how to light them up, though I did watch a Youtube video about it. I will post a picture of the whole thing when I test it.
Thanks again for everything!
That makes sense about the white gas. I was just not sure how much they consume.
Great info on the parts website, and the resources. I will read up a bit on what I need to take apart to replace the bits you mentioned. I am not even familiar on how to light them up, though I did watch a Youtube video about it. I will post a picture of the whole thing when I test it.
Thanks again for everything!
pixelcodex
Observer
Irregular burning?
Andrew, I have to resort once again to your encyclopedic knowledge of Coleman stoves. I bought some RUG and tried the stove for he first time. Mind you, at this point I did not swap any parts or anything, as I wanted to check first how it ran. To my disappointment, the main burner seems erratic and remains yellow. When I light up the secondary one, they both go to blue, but at a very low flame, and eventually the main one goes out. I am not familiar with the stoves, but the pump also seemed too "loose". I included a little clip, hoping you can diagnose the problem. Thanks.
Andrew, I have to resort once again to your encyclopedic knowledge of Coleman stoves. I bought some RUG and tried the stove for he first time. Mind you, at this point I did not swap any parts or anything, as I wanted to check first how it ran. To my disappointment, the main burner seems erratic and remains yellow. When I light up the secondary one, they both go to blue, but at a very low flame, and eventually the main one goes out. I am not familiar with the stoves, but the pump also seemed too "loose". I included a little clip, hoping you can diagnose the problem. Thanks.
This really isn't the place for a tutorial but it likely just needs to be cleaned out. Run a frayed wire or brush through the manifold to remove any spider webs-that will make sure that your air fuel mix is correct at the burner.
Regarding the pump-unscrew 2 turns, thumb over the hole and pump up to pressure. Then screw the pump back in (this seals the tank at the air stem). Turn it up to at least 1/2 throttle and light (with the lighting lever up). Once it burns for a minute and heats the generator, turn the lighting lever down. Then pump the tank back up to pressure.--That is important since you mix some of the compressed air into the gasoline when lighting (that's what the lighting lever does). You'll get the hang of all this once you use it 2-3 times.
When you have yellow flames like this it's running rich, which is usually an air problem, and in an old and unused stove, it's usually spiders/mud daubers/cob webs in the manifold preventing good air flow. Compressed air usually will not clear them, which is why you need to use a wire or pipe cleaners etc.
Read the tutorials that were linked above. A thorough cleaning of the stove will usually take care of any problems. As a last resort, you can carefully take the generator apart and clean it, but if you stove has seen little use, that likely is not needed.
Good luck and let me know when you get it running properly-I know you can. My main stove for trips is from 1961 and it runs like new.
Regarding the pump-unscrew 2 turns, thumb over the hole and pump up to pressure. Then screw the pump back in (this seals the tank at the air stem). Turn it up to at least 1/2 throttle and light (with the lighting lever up). Once it burns for a minute and heats the generator, turn the lighting lever down. Then pump the tank back up to pressure.--That is important since you mix some of the compressed air into the gasoline when lighting (that's what the lighting lever does). You'll get the hang of all this once you use it 2-3 times.
When you have yellow flames like this it's running rich, which is usually an air problem, and in an old and unused stove, it's usually spiders/mud daubers/cob webs in the manifold preventing good air flow. Compressed air usually will not clear them, which is why you need to use a wire or pipe cleaners etc.
Read the tutorials that were linked above. A thorough cleaning of the stove will usually take care of any problems. As a last resort, you can carefully take the generator apart and clean it, but if you stove has seen little use, that likely is not needed.
Good luck and let me know when you get it running properly-I know you can. My main stove for trips is from 1961 and it runs like new.
pixelcodex
Observer
Thanks Andrew. I realize you can't give detailed instructions. I was anxious to test it, so I did before reading some of the links you posted! Plus, I thought they were more repair oriented. After reading some instructions, and from what you told me, I think I know what I did wrong.
pixelcodex
Observer
It was called being a noob with these stoves! Here they are, blue flames in all their glory:
jerdog53
Explorer
I have 3!
3 Coleman stoves, a 425C double burner of early 70s vintage that I picked up at a flee market in Everett Wa. 20 years ago, rebuilt it once and use it every time we go out with white gas.
Second is a 508 single burner back packer purchased new in 1986, use it infrequently and just replaced the generator last spring still works like a charm!
Lastly, must be a 530, was my grandfathers 40s vintage duel fuel single burner with the aluminum cylinder storage case. Took me a while to source a new generator for that one but I did last year and got it running perfectly!
Looks like this:
I am a Big fan of all the older Coleman products!
3 Coleman stoves, a 425C double burner of early 70s vintage that I picked up at a flee market in Everett Wa. 20 years ago, rebuilt it once and use it every time we go out with white gas.
Second is a 508 single burner back packer purchased new in 1986, use it infrequently and just replaced the generator last spring still works like a charm!
Lastly, must be a 530, was my grandfathers 40s vintage duel fuel single burner with the aluminum cylinder storage case. Took me a while to source a new generator for that one but I did last year and got it running perfectly!
Looks like this:
I am a Big fan of all the older Coleman products!
pixelcodex
Observer
I have 3!
3 Coleman stoves, a 425C double burner of early 70s vintage that I picked up at a flee market in Everett Wa. 20 years ago, rebuilt it once and use it every time we go out with white gas.
Second is a 508 single burner back packer purchased new in 1986, use it infrequently and just replaced the generator last spring still works like a charm!
Lastly, must be a 530, was my grandfathers 40s vintage duel fuel single burner with the aluminum cylinder storage case. Took me a while to source a new generator for that one but I did last year and got it running perfectly!
Looks like this:
I am a Big fan of all the older Coleman products!
Great stuff. And the vintage one is beautiful!
KANZ
New member
Great answer.
I would like to add following. When you run the stove on car gasoline it might require more frequent service for the generator because of the residue build up. I am talking about servicing after cooking for 6 weeks or more every day most meals. I used to run also the Coleman powerhouse lanterns with unleaded gas, which causes problems after about 10 days. My recipe is to use white gas as much as possible for the lanterns and sometimes for the stoves.
As for the Coleman stoves. They had been outsourced to China for some years, but they are back for a while as Made in the US. You can feel the difference.
Best,
Harald Kanz