Diesel vs gas engine for camping and General purpose

[AnarchyintheAK]

I don't think that 125k miles over 12 years is a very good use of diesel. haha

But I agree with the rest of your post. By and large, vehicles built today are extremely reliable. Incredibly so. We don't hesitate to take off on multi thousand mile trips on vehicles of any make and model with over 100,000 miles and only oil and tire changes and they have zero issues almost 100% of the time. In my opinion, any thread comparing the relative reliability of any two recent vehicles is pointless. They're all ultra reliable.

But what if we're shopping in the 20+ year old domestic 4x4 price range...

 

[PKDreamers]

In OZ most people that have 4x4 tend to buy a diesel one.A few main reasons is its not as flammable as petrol/gas and most outback farms / stations run all diesel-powered equipment and you can buy diesel fuel off a lot of farms in the outback .

 

[Bayou Boy]

But what if we're shopping in the 20+ year old domestic 4x4 price range...

I personally don't buy vehicles that old and expect them to take me around the country. If I'm traveling, it's vacation. I don't want to be doing old truck, BS fixes in some tiny town auto parts store parking lot on vacation while my family hangs out in the Mcdonalds playground next door. The time spent getting an older truck "up to snuff" could better be used taking a second job and saving up more money for a more reliable truck if long distance travel is your ultimate goal.

Just my opinion and don't take it as any sort of insult, because it's not. I currently own and have owned a few older vehicles but I don't expect them to carry me on 4000+ mile trips comfortably, safely, and reliably.

Also, if your budget only allows a 20yo domestic truck, it probably doesn't allow the time and expense of a multi-thousand mile trip so the question is moot.

 

[AnarchyintheAK]

I personally don't buy vehicles that old and expect them to take me around the country. If I'm traveling, it's vacation. I don't want to be doing old truck, BS fixes in some tiny town auto parts store parking lot on vacation while my family hangs out in the Mcdonalds playground next door. The time spent getting an older truck "up to snuff" could better be used taking a second job and saving up more money for a more reliable truck if long distance travel is your ultimate goal.

Just my opinion and don't take it as any sort of insult, because it's not. I currently own and have owned a few older vehicles but I don't expect them to carry me on 4000+ mile trips comfortably, safely, and reliably.

Also, if your budget only allows a 20yo domestic truck, it probably doesn't allow the time and expense of a multi-thousand mile trip so the question is moot.

I guess that's one way of thinking. I'm fully nomadic and work online, but I prefer to work less and play more most of the time. I've always had excellent luck with older trucks. Drove my '78 Toyota from Alaska to Portland and all around the PNW last year without a hitch. Drove 20+-year-old Ford Rangers all over Alaska, too, and drove them 'til the transmissions gave out, but that's one of those things that still worked 'til I got home. (I paid less than $2k each, put on average 75-100k miles on them.) Just haven't ever had very bad luck with old trucks. I prefer them. I hate looking under a hood and seeing a damn computer!

All this is to say that I love squeezing the last little bit of life out of old trucks, so that longevity factor definitely comes into play for me.

That being said, I've never owned a diesel, and the DIY quick fixes on minor crap that I'm used to may not apply. Thus the importance of this conversation.

 

[Clutch]

I personally don't buy vehicles that old and expect them to take me around the country. If I'm traveling, it's vacation. .

Hell, that is part of the adventure!

I admire Karin-Marijke and Coen with their Landcruising Adventure.

https://landcruisingadventure.com

 

[Dalko43]

I own 3 diesel PU trucks and 4 gas PU trucks.

Just stating my opinion based upon "MY" real world long-term ownership of both gas and diesel powered trucks. Just like modern diesel engines modern gas engines have also come a long way in terms of power, reliability and longevity.

The "highest mileage" truck I own is a 2001 Chevy 1500HD with the original 6.0 litre LS GAS engine with 358,000 miles. Never had the valve covers off. My daughter drives it everyday. The same cannot be said for any of the diesel engine trucks I own.

What diesel engines have you owned? Not doubting you, just curious.

See, I think @Clutch likes to label me as diesel-phile who hates gasoline vehicles. That's not true at all. I totally believe @vintage914racer that a well-maintained, and well-designed, gasoline engine can last a very long time with very basic maintenance. I have owned several myself which prove that. What I take issue with is when people claim that gasoline engines are categorically more reliable than diesels.

1) A breakdown of any modern, electronically-controlled engine in the field is going to be a PITA...the gasoline vs. diesel argument is moot in that regards.
2) Compared to a diesel engine that was problematic from the factory floor (like the 6.0 Powerstroke), yes a well-sorted gasoline will obviously be considered more reliable. Compared to a well-sorted diesel engine, I don't think that claim holds any water.

I don't think there is a wrong choice. People have their own wants (let's face it, most, if not all, of the conversations on this forum far exceed what we actually "need") and will pick an engine/vehicle platform that is best suited to them. There are inherent pro's and con's to each choice, but there is a high degree of user preference involved.

As with most things, details matter and the gas vs. diesel decision is highly subjective.

^This.

 

[Clutch]

What diesel engines have you owned? Not doubting you, just curious.

See, I think @Clutch likes to label me as diesel-phile who hates gasoline vehicles. That's not true at all. I totally believe @vintage914racer that a well-maintained, and well-designed, gasoline engine can last a very long time with very basic maintenance. I have owned several myself which prove that. What I take issue with is when people claim that gasoline engines are categorically more reliable than diesels.

1) A breakdown of any modern, electronically-controlled engine in the field is going to be a PITA...the gasoline vs. diesel argument is moot in that regards.
2) Compared to a diesel engine that was problematic from the factory floor (like the 6.0 Powerstroke), yes a well-sorted gasoline will obviously be considered more reliable. Compared to a well-sorted diesel engine, I don't think that claim holds any water.

I don't think there is a wrong choice. People have their own wants (let's face it, most, if not all, of the conversations on this forum far exceed what we actually "need") and will pick an engine/vehicle platform that is best suited to them. There are inherent pro's and con's to each choice, but there is a high degree of user preference involved.

Dalko, do you personally own a diesel or have in the past? Because you spend an awful lot of energy defending them. Don’t you get tired of arguing the same thing over and over?

Yes both platforms are complex, but when the components around a diesel fails it is a rather expensive repair. Where with gas it isn't. Failures seem to less with gas. Is what I "think" is what all the arguing is about it. With the diesel, do the pros outweigh the costly cons?

I don't hate diesels...however I used to operate heavy equipment for a living. Sitting on those machines day in and day out, is one of the main reasons I won't own diesel today.

 

[Dalko43]

Dalko, do you personally own a diesel or have in the past? Because you spend an awful lot of energy defending them. Don’t you get tired of arguing the same thing over and over?

In answer to your first question: yes.
In answer to your second question: no.

And to be honest, I've said more than a few times that I don't categorically dislike gasoline engines, nor do I consider diesel engines to be inherently better. You specifically have made numerous attempts to frame me as a diesel fanboy; I've been fairly straightforward in stating that both engine types have their own pro's and con's, the relevance of which will vary from one owner to the next.

If I have a history of 'defending' diesels, it's because certain people (yourself included) have a history of making false, or highly subjective, claims about them, as noted below:

Yes both platforms are complex, but when the components around a diesel fails it is a rather expensive repair. Where with gas it isn't. Failures seem to less with gas. Is what I "think" is what all the arguing is about it.

With the diesel, do the pros outweigh the costly cons?

Well I'm certain that your list of the pro's/con's differs significantly from my own. But evidently, the pro's do outweigh the con's for some North American truck owners, as indicated by the strong sales of current diesel offerings and the plans to bring additional diesel options into the market.

I don't hate diesels...however I used to operate heavy equipment for a living. Sitting on those machines day in and day out, is one of the main reasons I won't own diesel today.

And yet, every time a thread pops up asking for input on diesel ownership, you magically appear to tell everyone why you think diesel ownership is foolish, or, as in the case of this thread, to disparage people who don't share your views.

BTW, if your frame of reference for owning a diesel is sitting behind a piece of commercial-grade machinery, then I question how much you truly know about modern diesel trucks.

 

[Clutch]

In answer to your first question: yes.
In answer to your second question: no.

What is it? Do you have pictures? How long have you owned it? How many miles have you put on it? Have you done any repair work? See what i am getting at here...kinda curious of how much actual experience you have with owning a diesel. I literally grew up them, wouldn't surprised that my dad put diesel in my bottle when I was a baby.

Don't think I have ever read that you own one...only your 4Runner.

Never talk about your experiences either...which makes think you don't have any. Because all of your arguments sound like you have read them elsewhere on the internet. Never hear any real world experiences from you.

If I have a history of 'defending' diesels, it's because certain people (yourself included) have a history of making false, or highly subjective, claims about them, as noted below:

False claims!?

Like what...they are expensive to purchase, to maintain, to fuel and repair. Are those the false claims I have made in the past that you're talking about?

Sure gas seems like it has less failures than diesel...never really hear people complain about their gassers other than they suck fuel. Like what Chris from U-Joint was saying, they never have to touch the gassers. The guy has a lot of experience with these vans. I surely would listen to him even though it is deemed subjective. Would it be better if we put it on a spread sheet for ya?

Buying equipment should be subjective, stats only tell one side of the story...having real world experience is the other. You look at both and make your own decision. Isn't that what these forums are all about anyway?

But evidently, the pro's do outweigh the con's for some North American truck owners, as indicated by the strong sales of current diesel offerings and the plans to bring additional diesel options into the market.

Oh it is more about obtaining easy long term credit is why these diesel trucks are selling. Willing to bet if people had to pay cash, they wouldn't sell like they do. And really...you said it yourself, people buy these things because they want to, not because the need them. More about a keeping up with the Jones pissing contest than anything. Why we are seeing 900-1000 ft lbs tq in 3/4-1 tons. There is absolutely no need for those kind of numbers in a pickup.

BTW, if your frame of reference for owning a diesel is sitting behind a piece of commercial-grade machinery, then I question how much you truly know about modern diesel trucks.

After operating commercial grade heavy equipment (and not trying to be macho here) but after running the big stuff, 3/4-1 ton pickups are child's play.

Plus after wrenching on that stuff, what is there to know about modern diesel pickups? Some added emissions systems? Commercial heavy equipment is even more complicated with their electric joystick controlled hydraulics, GPS guidance, they too get modern emissions, among other things. Modern pickups are rather simple in comparison, a lot less to go wrong.

 

[charlieaarons]

I agree no reason for 900-1000 ft-lb in pickups. My 700 ft-lb OM906 has caused NO problems in 100k mi except EGR easily fixed in a 27000 lb truck

 

[Clutch]

I agree no reason for 900-1000 ft-lb in pickups. My 700 ft-lb OM906 has caused NO problems in 100k mi except EGR easily fixed in a 27000 lb truck

Our old gas Chevy C70 [GVW 33,400 lbs], the torque of the 366 (6.0) in that truck was in the 500 range....it is all about gearing. Those trucks were also available with a tandem rear, with a GVW of 50,000 lbs...with the same engine. 900-1000 ft lbs in a pickup is rather ridiculous.

I live in the heart of diesel truck country, bunches and bunches running around here...mostly empty. Air must be really heavy here to need all that torque...

 

[Dalko43]

What is it? Do you have pictures? How long have you owned it? How many miles have you put on it? Have you done any repair work? See what i am getting at here...kinda curious of how much actual experience you have with owning a diesel.

@Clutch, do you have other things to do with your time? Or are you that bored that you feel the need to question me on every statement and post that I make? You seem to be following me everywhere that I make a comment in regards to diesel topics.

Driven diesel Hilux's overseas.
Owned and driven diesel Ram 2500.
Driven diesel Ford Super Duties.
Owned and driven old Mercedes diesel sedans.
Driven numerous diesel sedans overseas.

Do we need to set up another thread for you so that you can write paragraphs upon paragraphs on why you think diesel engines are foolish? Or do you need to see a therapist about this personal vendetta you have with me?

Oh it is more about obtaining easy long term credit is why these diesel trucks are selling. Willing to bet if people had to pay cash, they wouldn't sell like they do. And really...you said it yourself, people buy these things because they want to, not because the need them. More about a keeping up with the Jones pissing contest than anything. Why we are seeing 900-1000 ft lbs tq in 3/4-1 tons. There is absolutely no need for those kind of numbers in a pickup.

Agree. That's why OEM's are coming out with smaller displacement diesels for the 1/2 ton and midsized segments. Because some people who want diesel don't want trucks of that size, cost and capability.

I literally grew up them, wouldn't surprised that my dad put diesel in my bottle when I was a baby.
.......
After operating commercial grade heavy equipment (and not trying to be macho here) but after running the big stuff, 3/4-1 ton pickups are child's play.

Yes, but I don't know how much you really took away from those experiences. You have a history of beating the dead horse on how you think modern diesels are smelly, unreliable, and inefficient. You obviously don't have much of an understanding of modern diesels, which are quite different from those engines used in industrial applications and those that were in use when you were a baby.

You keep talking about how modern diesel emissions systems are unreliable and yet I doubt you could even explain how they work.

Can you give it a rest now? It gets a little old when you sidetrack these threads.

 

[AnarchyintheAK]

So I figure I'll have up to 4,000 pounds between the service body and my camper, totally dry, without any gear/water. Is that good use for a diesel?

 

[Clutch]

@Clutch, do you have other things to do with your time? Or are you that bored that you feel the need to question me on every statement and post that I make? You seem to be following me everywhere that I make a comment in regards to diesel topics.

Driven diesel Hilux's overseas.
Owned and driven diesel Ram 2500.
Driven diesel Ford Super Duties.
Owned and driven old Mercedes diesel sedans.
Driven numerous diesel sedans overseas.

Do we need to set up another thread for you so that you can write paragraphs upon paragraphs on why you think diesel engines are foolish? Or do you need to see a therapist about this personal vendetta you have with me?

Just most of your posts, sound like you are regurgitating what you have read on the internet. Not from actual real world experience. Driven how...around the block!? Give us some some examples of the type of loads you have hauled with the diesels you have driven. You seem to dodge the question every time I have ask...why is that?

Personal vendetta? I don't know about that...but you're a ******** to me...so I am going to be a ******** to you right back.

Not sure why you are giving me a hard time about talking about the same things over and over. As you do the same...any diesel thread you're blathering the same thing again and again...repeating spec sheet BS. Maybe you need your own thread talking about the merits of diesel....ooh! I know! We could have an EXPO death match...on my thread vs. yours. How awesome would be that be!?

Yes, but I don't know how much you really took away from those experiences. You have a history of beating the dead horse on how you think modern diesels are smelly, unreliable, and inefficient. You obviously don't have much of an understanding of modern diesels, which are quite different from those engines used in industrial applications and those that were in use when you were a baby.

You keep talking about how modern diesel emissions systems are unreliable and yet I doubt you could even explain how they work.

Can you give it a rest now? It gets a little old when you sidetrack these threads.

So my experience with medium and heavy duty diesels...somehow voids my experience with modern diesel pickups? Ahhh...ok!?

When I was a baby...you do know I couldn't operate diesel equipment when I was a baby...because....umm..ya know...I was a baby. chit! I am in tears laughing at that one! The diesel in a bottle was a bit of joke...though probably true since my dad came home from the job site covered in dirt, diesel and grease often.

Never said modern diesels are smelly. Well except for the guys who delete them. The systems around them aren't reliable has the old mechanical diesels. And have lost efficiency with said emission systems. Pretty much everyone knows that. Not sure why you get so upset over that.

You do realize I have driven and operated modern diesel trucks and equipment right? Last couple things I have rented were skid steers, excavators and an International 26' bobtail with a CAT engine...that poor truck was so over loaded...and various buddy's deezul pickups when I took over driving duty when we go on our dirt bike trips....oooooh...and I know how you hate it when when I talk about dirt bikes. Your ears are probably turning red after reading that!

I try to get along with everyone, but you I dunno...you're being a ******** towards me, so I am going to be a ******** right. Not sure why you think you're better than me....you keep on repeating yourself over and over in these type of threads. And yet the "this vs. that" whatever is never resolved. Why do you keep posting the same argument over and over? And I have issues...think you should look in the mirror. Just look at the F150 Diesel thread you gave me a hard time about me arguing why that diesel is foolish, why should I even argue about it if I have no intention of buying one. And you made the thread even though you have stated you hate Fords and have no intention of buying one...what is all that about!?

Your holier-than-thou attitude gets a little old...

Like I told you before, don't like what I write...don't read it, or ignore me...it is really that simple.

 

[Dalko43]

@Clutch, go back to your personal thread if you feel the need to vent like this.

I didn't come into this thread aiming to start a personal argument with you, or anyone else. It's very obvious, from your original comments, that your participation in this thread had an ulterior motive.

I'm done side-tracking this thread and I'm done engaging you on this.

The 'ignore' feature doesn't solve the problem of you cluttering up these threads with off-topic rants. Please give that issue some thought.