Cross country trip rifle?

Henry 45-70 lever action. Old school but it shoots straight, carry’s easy, fits nicely on my lap by the fire and in the RTT. Works on 2 or 4 legged critters meaning to do you harm.
 

MR. ED

Observer
So....I never really thought about taking a rifle (or shotgun) while on a road trip until I was cruising the truck gun thread even though when I head out to the backcountry I always do....While in my state,or bordering states, I'm not worried about any kind of legalities...I was curious how many actually do carry a rifle while traversing the interstates....It makes sense to me on a lot of levels and also doesn't on a few....Mainly the inconveniences that it may subject you to....Better to be judged by 12? Anyway....for years I felt comfortable with a 6 shot 357 and some extras hanging out loosely in my cup holders. I'm not sure about that anymore! I have some options but was starting to feel weird about bringing more than needed. Not looking for any kind of fight, but one never knows...Better to be looking at it or for it?
I don't have a ccw. My state recognizes my truck as an extension of my home and so do the bordering states. Illinois on the other hand...i guess it's not a big deal to pull over in Iowa to stash and lock everything up, but I probably wouldn't cause I'm lazy...Plus I've heard the horror stories of people from CO being subjected to excessive searches in neighboring states... Just some food for thought. Thanks again.
 

DieselRanger

Well-known member
I have read some of the stated rules for my state (NY); some are just plain wrong, often because they are misinterpreting the laws which they reference or they reference the wrong laws entirely. So if you want to take USSCA's word at face value, do so at your own peril. They are an advocacy group; they are not legal scholars.

I agree, he doesn't have to go into IL. I'm just pointing out that not all states are friendly to out-of-state CCW.
From their website with links to the laws:

"New York prohibits the manufacture, transportation, disposal and possession of any large capacity ammunition feeding device, which New York law defines as a magazine, belt, drum, feed strip or similar device that:
  • Has a capacity of, or that can be readily restored or converted to accept more than 10 rounds of ammunition;
  • Contains more than 7 rounds of ammunition; or
  • Is obtained after January 15, 2013 and has a capacity of, or can be readily restored or converted to accept more than 7 rounds of ammunition.
There are exceptions for attached tubular devices designed to accept, and capable of operating only with, .22 caliber rimfire ammunition or a feeding device that is a curio or relic. There are also grandfather provisions for devices that have the capacity of, or that can be converted to accept, 8-10 rounds, so long as they were lawfully possessed prior to January 15, 2013, and do not actually contain more than seven rounds of ammunition. [NY Pen. Code § 265.00(23)]

[NY Pen. Code § 265.02(8)]

"Carry in State/National Parks, State/National Forests and Wildlife Management Areas (WMAs)?
Can you carry a concealed firearm in state/national parks, state/national forests and Wildlife Management Areas in New York?

No. Section 190(p)(1) Dept. Lands"

Which states, "(p) Firearms and weapons. (1) Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph (2) of this subdivision, no person, other than a member of a Federal, State or municipal law enforcement agency, shall introduce or possess, either upon the person or within a vehicle, or use any firearm or any instrument or weapon the propelling force of which is a spring, rubber or air or any ammunition or propellant therefor, or a bow and arrow, except for hunting where permitted by a rule or regulation of a regional park, recreation and historic preservation commission or pursuant to a permit issued according to the provisions of section 376.1(r)* of this Title. (2) Any person employed by a private security firm which has contracted with the office or with a lessee or licensee of the office for services on property under the jurisdiction, custody and control of the office shall be permitted, with the approval of the office, to carry a firearm supplied by his or her employer in the course of his or her employment on such property, provided that such person is licensed pursuant to section 400.00 of the Penal Law and meets such minimum qualifications as may be established by the commissioner. In addition, any firm providing security services on lands under the jurisdiction of the office shall provide public liability insurance, naming the State as an insured party, in such amounts as the commissioner shall require."

So no, you cannot openly or conceal carry a firearm in just any ol' New York state park any ol' time you want to.

What else you got?
 

Dalko43

Explorer
From their website with links to the laws:

"New York prohibits the manufacture, transportation, disposal and possession of any large capacity ammunition feeding device, which New York law defines as a magazine, belt, drum, feed strip or similar device that:
  • Has a capacity of, or that can be readily restored or converted to accept more than 10 rounds of ammunition;
  • Contains more than 7 rounds of ammunition; or
  • Is obtained after January 15, 2013 and has a capacity of, or can be readily restored or converted to accept more than 7 rounds of ammunition.
There are exceptions for attached tubular devices designed to accept, and capable of operating only with, .22 caliber rimfire ammunition or a feeding device that is a curio or relic. There are also grandfather provisions for devices that have the capacity of, or that can be converted to accept, 8-10 rounds, so long as they were lawfully possessed prior to January 15, 2013, and do not actually contain more than seven rounds of ammunition. [NY Pen. Code § 265.00(23)]

[NY Pen. Code § 265.02(8)]
NY's 7 round limit was ruled unconstitutional by a 2nd Circuit Court judge: SAFE Act ruling

So that bit is wrong.



"Carry in State/National Parks, State/National Forests and Wildlife Management Areas (WMAs)?
Can you carry a concealed firearm in state/national parks, state/national forests and Wildlife Management Areas in New York?

No. Section 190(p)(1) Dept. Lands"

Which states, "(p) Firearms and weapons. (1) Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph (2) of this subdivision, no person, other than a member of a Federal, State or municipal law enforcement agency, shall introduce or possess, either upon the person or within a vehicle, or use any firearm or any instrument or weapon the propelling force of which is a spring, rubber or air or any ammunition or propellant therefor, or a bow and arrow, except for hunting where permitted by a rule or regulation of a regional park, recreation and historic preservation commission or pursuant to a permit issued according to the provisions of section 376.1(r)* of this Title. (2) Any person employed by a private security firm which has contracted with the office or with a lessee or licensee of the office for services on property under the jurisdiction, custody and control of the office shall be permitted, with the approval of the office, to carry a firearm supplied by his or her employer in the course of his or her employment on such property, provided that such person is licensed pursuant to section 400.00 of the Penal Law and meets such minimum qualifications as may be established by the commissioner. In addition, any firm providing security services on lands under the jurisdiction of the office shall provide public liability insurance, naming the State as an insured party, in such amounts as the commissioner shall require."

So no, you cannot openly or conceal carry a firearm in just any ol' New York state park any ol' time you want to.
Except that regulation is misleading. That executive rule (not the same thing as a law) is written and enforced by NY's State Office of Parks and Recreation. They have jurisdiction over very specific state parks (Letchworth, Allegheny, certain historical sites, ect.). They DO NOT have any jurisdiction over WMA's or the huge swaths of state land that are called 'parks' like the Adirondacks or Catskills; both categories of land fall under DEC (NY's Game Wardens and wilderness Rangers) jurisdiction.

Moreover, it's an executive rule, not a law passed by the legislature and signed by the governor....a court would have a hard time convicting someone of carrying in a state park under the purview of NY's Parks and Recreation office.

You can in fact conceal carry on a WMA or in the Adirondack or Catskills Parks (which include state forests, wilderness and primitive areas). You can in fact carry a weapon openly in those areas during hunting season (and even long guns/shotguns outside of hunting season).

You can carry in National Forests as well, since those also DON'T FALL under authority of NY Parks and Recreation.

So no, smarty pants, that bit is wrong as well, or at the very least hugely misleading.


What else you got?
Nothing. I live in NY and am very familiar with its laws. You obviously aren't, so maybe you should quit digging your own grave.
 
Last edited:

DieselRanger

Well-known member
NY's 7 round limit was ruled unconstitutional by a 2nd Circuit Court judge: SAFE Act ruling

So that bit is wrong.
Mmmm...study that one again, homeslice. The court struck down only the portion that says you can't load more than seven rounds into a 10-round magazine. However, the law was only amended to allow the sale of 10-round magazines since at the time 7-round magazines didn't exist. They do now. The law was NOT amended to allow loading more than 7 rounds into a 10-round magazine. The gun rights groups in NY dropped their challenge because after Scalia died they didn't think they had a snowball's chance of getting the law overturned. FWIW I hope renewed challenges are successful.

And New York State itself still posts this on their SAFE Act website:

"The SAFE Act was recently amended. The amendments include the following changes to the law:
  • Suspending the requirement that only magazines that can contain 7 rounds or less can be purchased. Going forward, magazines can be purchased that can contain up to 10 rounds. Magazines may only contain up to 7 rounds regardless of their capacity, unless you are at an incorporated firing range or competition, in which case you may load your magazine to its full capacity.
  • ...."
The Giffords Law Center also still lists the ban, as does the NY Penal Code itself, and as far as I'm aware, only Erie County has decided to stop prosecuting people for violating this provision - and only just in Nov 2018. Why the discrepancy? Call your state legislator(s) and ask them. Or call 1-855-LAW-GUNS. In the mean time, if you are caught and charged it's an expensive and lengthy legal challenge. I'm sure the USCCA would help you take that on for your membership fee.
 

Dalko43

Explorer
Mmmm...study that one again, homeslice. The court struck down only the portion that says you can't load more than seven rounds into a 10-round magazine. However, the law was only amended to allow the sale of 10-round magazines since at the time 7-round magazines didn't exist. They do now. The law was NOT amended to allow loading more than 7 rounds into a 10-round magazine. The gun rights groups in NY dropped their challenge because after Scalia died they didn't think they had a snowball's chance of getting the law overturned. FWIW I hope renewed challenges are successful.

And New York State itself still posts this on their SAFE Act website:

"The SAFE Act was recently amended. The amendments include the following changes to the law:
  • Suspending the requirement that only magazines that can contain 7 rounds or less can be purchased. Going forward, magazines can be purchased that can contain up to 10 rounds. Magazines may only contain up to 7 rounds regardless of their capacity, unless you are at an incorporated firing range or competition, in which case you may load your magazine to its full capacity.
  • ...."
The Giffords Law Center also still lists the ban, as does the NY Penal Code itself, and as far as I'm aware, only Erie County has decided to stop prosecuting people for violating this provision - and only just in Nov 2018. Why the discrepancy? Call your state legislator(s) and ask them. Or call 1-855-LAW-GUNS. In the mean time, if you are caught and charged it's an expensive and lengthy legal challenge. I'm sure the USCCA would help you take that on for your membership fee.
The 7 round limit was ruled UNCONSTITUTIONAL by a Supreme Court judge.

There was no portion of the law that was amended (except for a bit relating to LE owning certain types of semi-auto's).

The SAFE Act website is written and updated by the executive branch (likely the governor's office). It's giving an interpretation of the magazine limit....that interpretation does not carry the weight of law behind it. The Supreme Court judge's interpretation does, and in fact there have been several criminal cases where local prosecutors tried to charge people for having more than 7 rounds loaded in their magazine but then were forced to drop those charges due to lack of legal justification. SAFE ACT Charges

You're barking up the wrong tree. You don't live in NY. And the only familiarity you have with its laws is from google searching.


I noticed you didn't even bother trying to counter the other bit about carrying on state/federal lands. The USCCA should not be treated as the end-all-be-all legal resource for carry/possession laws in the various states. They're giving their interpretation of certain state laws, and, as I've already proven, that interpretation is questionable in certain areas.
 
Last edited:

DieselRanger

Well-known member
The 7 round limit was ruled UNCONSTITUTIONAL by a Supreme Court judge.

There was no portion of the law that was amended (except for a bit relating to LE owning certain types of semi-auto's).

The SAFE Act website is written and updated by the executive branch (likely the governor's office). It's giving an interpretation of the magazine limit....that interpretation does not carry the weight of law behind it. The Supreme Court judge's interpretation does, and in fact there have been several criminal cases where local prosecutors tried to charge people for having more than 7 rounds loaded in their magazine but then were forced to drop those charges due to lack of legal justification. SAFE ACT Charges

You're barking up the wrong tree. You don't live in NY. And the only familiarity you have with its laws is from google searching.


I noticed you didn't even bother trying to counter the other bit about carrying on state/federal lands. The USCCA should not be treated as the end-all-be-all legal resource for carry/possession laws in the various states. They're giving their interpretation of certain state laws, and, as I've already proven, that interpretation is questionable in certain areas.
Go explain to me why people are still being charged for violating the loading ban. DA's are choosing not to prosecute, but it's happening and the law is still on the books, so it's an unconstitutional law but it's a law nonetheless, until it's not. It's all over the news. Pay attention:

State lawmakers have never removed it which means, technically, someone could still be arrested under that section of the law.

And while one might presume an easy fix to all of this would be action by the NY State Legislature to simply repeal that small portion of NYSAFE, such a move has proven to be easier said than done.

“We’ve tried,” said NYS Senator Patrick Gallivan, a republican from Western New York.

Gallivan has co-sponsored bills in each of the last two years to repeal the section of NYSAFE ruled to be unconstitutional, but those bills have never made it out of committee.
You want to have your firearm confiscated and go to jail for up to a couple days until the DA reviews your case because cops in one jurisdiction or another are enforcing a law still on the books, go ahead.

As for your other point, National land management agencies explicitly defer to state laws and jurisdiction. "First, the primary laws governing possession of firearms and other weapons on National Forest are State Laws. These laws were developed by the states following establishment of our Cooperative Wildlife Management Agreements."

And while New York state lands might have "executive" regulations, if you violate those regulations, they can force you to leave. If you don't, you may be charged with trespassing, and then be dealing with law enforcement as a result. So technically your right to carry on state lands has been abridged, since you can only carry during hunting season, and with weapons authorized during particular seasons. You get caught carrying on state lands in June, I hope it's by someone sympathetic to your views.

If you want to take a stand on something you and others feel is unconstitutional in your state, I applaud you - Godspeed. I'm simply telling you what the laws and regulations are. I don't have to live there to do that, unless words mean different things there.

The USCCA, NRA, and other organizations only provide advice. If their advice errs on the side of remaining an unambiguously law-abiding citizen, so be it. I don't think you are qualified to interpret your own behavior in relation to the laws any more than they are - that's up to a judge and jury if law enforcement disagrees with you. I just hope you're prepared with good legal representation should that happen.
 
Last edited:

Dalko43

Explorer
Go explain to me why people are still being charged for violating the loading ban. DA's are choosing not to prosecute, but it's happening and the law is still on the books, so it's an unconstitutional law but it's a law nonetheless, until it's not. It's all over the news. Pay attention:

Actually that article said very explicitly that DA's are NOT choosing to prosecute:
On Friday, when informed the New York State Police were contesting what she had stated in her news release, Wojtaszek insisted that - more important than any discrepancy - was her intent to inform all law enforcement agencies that if they charge someone under that particular section of NYSAFE, then she will not prosecute that charge.
It also said that the NYS Police are NOT charging anyone under that part of the SAFE Act:
Contacted by phone in Albany, New York State Police Public Information Officer Beau Duffy told WGRZ-TV that state police had not resumed charging people under the section of NYSAFE in question, and that it had not done so since Judge Skretny’s ruling was upheld by a federal appeals court in 2015.
To date, I'm not aware of anyone who has been charged and convicted for having more than 7 rounds loaded in their magazines.

Supreme Court ruled that the 7 round limit was unconstitutional. The legislature and executive branch have been reluctant to change the wording of the law...doesn't mean that part of the law is valid. And judging by how DA's are interpreting that part of the SAFE Act, I'd say it most definitely is not valid.



As for your other point, National land management agencies explicitly defer to state laws and jurisdiction. "First, the primary laws governing possession of firearms and other weapons on National Forest are State Laws. These laws were developed by the states following establishment of our Cooperative Wildlife Management Agreements."

And while New York state lands might have "executive" regulations, if you violate those regulations, they can force you to leave. If you don't, you may be charged with trespassing, and then be dealing with law enforcement as a result. So technically your right to carry on state lands has been abridged, since you can only carry during hunting season, and with weapons authorized during particular seasons. You get caught carrying on state lands in June, I hope it's by someone sympathetic to your views.

If you want to take a stand on something you and others feel is unconstitutional in your state, I applaud you - Godspeed. I'm simply telling you what the laws and regulations are. I don't have to live there to do that, unless words mean different things there.
The rule you quoted was from NY's Office of Parks and Recreation. Their rules have no jurisdiction over the Adirondacks Park, Catskills Park, WMA's, state forests or National Forests. Their rule is just that: a rule, which does not take any precedence over state law. There is no state law which prohibits conceal carry of a pistol or open carry of a long gun or shotgun on state lands.

Possession laws on federal lands are dictated by the relevant federal agencies (assuming that the type of weapon in possession is state-compliant). And FYI, the Forest Service document you referenced said concealed carry is allowed:
The second exception to this law allows people with a concealed weapon permit to carry a loaded, concealed, handgun either on their person or in their vehicle while on National Forest. This does not apply if the person is engaged in a primitive weapons season or chase only season.
Forest Service website also states that target shooting is allowed, barring any restrictions for specific areas: Target Shooting National Forests. So possession of a firearm on Forest Service lands is most certainly allowed outside of hunting season.

Possession on any state lands other than certain state parks and historical sites is dictated by DEC regulations (environmental law) or regular civil regulations (penal codes). You can possess a weapon on state land outside of hunting season. I've done so, and I've seen plenty of others do so, in plain view of ECO's and Rangers without any issue. Conceal carry is also not restricted for most of those types of state lands.


Get off your high horse and stop talking about this topic as if you know anything...because it's very obvious that you don't.
 
Last edited:

DieselRanger

Well-known member
Actually that article said very explicitly that DA's are NOT choosing to prosecute:
The article said that two county DAs have stated they will not prosecute. This does not mean that State Police haven't taken people into custody for this "violation." Both WGRZ articles insinuate that attempts to charge citizens with violating the loading ban have been made.

It also said that the NYS Police are NOT charging anyone under that part of the SAFE Act:
That's right, that's what the State Police have said. So while they may still be taking people into custody for violating this provision, as far as the State Police records database that the PA office searched shows, there have been no charges filed. But the Erie County DA seemed to disagree, noting that there were a handful of cases pending as of November 2018 for violating that section.

As of late 2017, over 11,000 people were arrested for SAFE Act violations. The search to determine which provisions they were or weren't charged with is too time consuming for me to do, but just because you're not aware of any doesn't mean it doesn't or hasn't happened. There is clearly a disagreement on whether it is still happening between certain county DA's and the State Police. Don't think a DA is going to lie about that, do you? I am willing to believe that the State Police databases aren't complete and/or the State Police PA officer doesn't know what each and every New York State Police trooper is doing on his or her beat.

The rule you quoted was from NY's Office of Parks and Recreation. Their rules have no jurisdiction over the Adirondacks Park, Catskills Park, WMA's, state forests or National Forests. Their rule is just that: a rule, which does not take any precedence over state law. There is no state law which prohibits conceal carry of a pistol or open carry of a long gun or shotgun on state lands.
As I said, if you break the rules, they can ask you to leave. If they don't want you to carry there, then you won't carry there. Period. And there absolutely is a law that prohibits concealed or open carry of a pistol in New York - if you don't have a NYPL, you can't do it, period, anywhere. Also, per DEC:
"Question: As a New York State Pistol Permit holder, can I carry my handgun while bow hunting or muzzleloader hunting?
Answer:
No, even though you possess a valid pistol permit to carry the handgun, the Environmental Conservation Law (ECL) prohibits it.
Question: Can I carry a handgun while hunting with a bow during the regular big game season?
Answer:
Yes. You may not however, carry a firearm while archery hunting during a special archery season."
You want to fight that one in court, go ahead. FREEDOM!

Possession laws on federal lands are dictated by the relevant federal agencies (assuming that the type of weapon in possession is state-compliant).
sigh Yes, possession laws on federal lands are dictated by the federal agencies, and ALL DEFER TO STATE LAWS. PERIOD. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM. If states have more restrictive laws than the Federal policy or regulation, the state law takes precedence. Including National Parks - except that shooting isn't allowed in National Parks, unless for self-defense, and then there's probably going to be an investigation and you'll need legal representation. Otherwise National Parks also defer to state law. If you don't want to acknowledge that, fine, I don't care.

And FYI, the Forest Service document you referenced said concealed carry is allowed:

Forest Service website also states that target shooting is allowed, barring any restrictions for specific areas: Target Shooting National Forests. So possession of a firearm on Forest Service lands is most certainly allowed outside of hunting season.
Never said target shooting or concealed carry wasn't allowed on Federal lands. I said carry laws on Federal recreation land defer to state law. No NYPL in New York, you're not carrying a loaded handgun anywhere in New York, federal land or no.

Possession on any state lands other than certain state parks and historical sites is dictated by DEC regulations (environmental law) or regular civil regulations (penal codes). You can possess a weapon on state land outside of hunting season. I've done so, and I've seen plenty of others do so, in plain view of ECO's and Rangers without any issue. Conceal carry is also not restricted for most of those types of state lands.
Ah, so you now agree that you can't just go heels on any state land whenever you want. Good.

Concealed carry is absolutely restricted by NY state law - you need a NYPL. And you can't open-carry a handgun in NY...without a NYPL. Permitted scary black "assault" rifles, regular-ol' non-scary non-"assault" rifles, and shotguns may be carried openly with restrictions in certain areas. It's all on the USCCA website already, linked and everything. Thanks for verifying.

Get off your high horse and stop talking about this topic as if you know anything...because it's very obvious that you don't.
Agree to disagree. Have a great day.
 

Dalko43

Explorer
USCCA's interpretations:

New York prohibits the manufacture, transportation, disposal and possession of any large capacity ammunition feeding device, which New York law defines as a magazine, belt, drum, feed strip or similar device that:

  • Has a capacity of, or that can be readily restored or converted to accept more than 10 rounds of ammunition;

  • Contains more than 7 rounds of ammunition; or
There is no 7 round magazine limit. A circuit of the Supreme Court overturned it. No one, to my knowledge (or yours it would seem) has actually been charged and convicted for carrying more than 7, but less than 11, rounds in their magazine. If you would like to claim otherwise, please provide your sources.

I acknowledge that there is confusion surrounding this bit of the law, and that the governor's office has refused to update its SAFE Act website; none of that takes precedence over the fact that a federal judge ruled the 7 round limit to be unconstitutional. That's about as cut and dry as you can get on a legal debate.

Carry in State/National Parks, State/National Forests and Wildlife Management Areas (WMAs)?
No.
Also patently false. The NY Parks and Recreation guidelines they referenced are rules which only influence certain state parks and historical sites. Those rules have absolutely no relevance to someone carrying on a WMA, National Forest, State Forest, Adirondack Park, Catskills Park or any other public land that isn't classified as a state park or historical site. You want to know why? Because the NY Office of Parks and Recreation has no authority over those lands. They have a very narrow purview.

There is no all encompassing state law which prohibits the possession of legal firearms on all state lands, even outside of hunting season.

Also, I never said open carry of pistols was allowed, I said open carry of rifles and shotguns was allowed.


You keep trying to defend your point, even though its flawed. As is USCCA's interpretations of NY's gun laws.
 
Last edited:

Dalko43

Explorer
Damn boys.
Nothing like hijacking a honest thread into a "who has the bigger #!&%" (intellect) contest.
One thing we may all agree on. If you intend to exercise your 2nd amendment rights, stay the hell out of New York !!
Well this is actually why I'm getting so fed up with @DieselRanger's comments: because they're very misleading about what NY does and does not permit in terms of firearm possession.

Not to say that the laws aren't bad here, but people like him and others at the USCCA are putting out bad gouge on magazine limits and carry regulations which is just adding to the mess rather than helping it.
 

rnArmy

Adventurer
The only time I've driven any long distance with a long gun in my vehicle was because I was way out there camping, and planned on sleeping with it in my tent (or readily available around camp). Like up in Alaska and Canada. In those cases, it was either a Marlin Guide Gun 45-70 (big loop of course), or a 12 Gauge shotgun (both for bears or other big critters). Here in the states, I might substitute them for my little Rossi 44 Mag lever action carbine. I don't think lever actions "scare" sensitive type people like an AR might if they happen to see me with it.
 

MR. ED

Observer
sorry everyone...didn't mean to stir up the pot so much...
rnArmy- you hit on part of my dilemma, if one is ever in NEED of a long gun why not have one that's up for the task instead of worrying about what other's may think and having one that's maybe not? Things are bad if you're banging out shots along the highway or in your hotel!
 

rnArmy

Adventurer
I keep a handgun on the nightstand when in a hotel (in the states of course). In Canada, my 45-70 or 12 gauge are most definitely up to the task. Probably better in a lot of ways than my AR (which I can't bring into Canada). And my 44 Mag carbine will hold a respectable number of rounds.

Now if I had an AR-10 firing 308 rounds... that would be sweet. Kinda the best of both worlds (big round and large capacity).

I'm trying to picture how I would fire a rifle while driving my Jeep - don't see how I could do it.
 
Top