Canadian Hino Ranger FT 4x4 Crewcab

This won't make you feel any better, but my rails were/are chopped immediately after the rear spring hanger mount. Despite extensive conversations with the agent in Japan before even bidding let alone buying and attempting knowingly to avoid this I ended up with a cut frame but in a place/way that is considerably harder to improve. I can empathize however with the wheelbase lament, I've researched for far too long the realities of extending my 2.8m (110") gap out to at least 3.1 or 3.15 (122-124") but the cost and add-on work were just way too great to consider.
 

Abitibi

Explorer
I would also had been upset given you tried to avoid this even before getting your truck!

In my case I saw the pictures before buying it so knew it was a swb but was surprised when I saw the big scars on the frame rails.

Ideally I would like an extra 24" of wheel base especially after I took some measurements.

What do you guys think, will I be pushing too far the limits of overhang???

Habitat box: 14'
End of cab to rear axle: 6'
Rear axle to frame end: 5'
Box overhanging past frame: 3'

This implies that the habitat box will start 6' in front of the rear axle, continue 8' behind the axle (including 3' past the end of the frame)...

I asked my neighbour to hold the tape at 14' to get an idea of where the box would end. Obviously the box will be sitting on a sub-frame so a few inches taller but it still doesn't account for spare and/or storage box at the back... The only saving grace is the truck will be on taller tires (41's vs current 35's) so another 2-3" taller.

2nd & 3rd pics just for visual effect (definitely not computer savvy when you tape pieces of paper on your computer screen, lol)

Your thoughts?

ac7c276e2fe42a04df19cd4bbc2a3629.jpg


20230206_221313.jpg

20230206_225847.jpg
 
Last edited:

SkiFreak

Crazy Person
Not that it really relates to you, as the vehicle rules in the US/Canada are very different to those in Australia, but here we has what is referred to as the 60% rule.
That rule states that the maximum overhang can be no more that 60% of the wheelbase behind the center line of the rear axle.
That's not just a box, but anything!

I do not know what your wheelbase is, but I am guessing that if you were here you would not legally be allowed to have a box that size on your truck, but you're not, so you can probably do whatever the heck you want. :)
The biggest issue with having too much weight behind your rear axle is that it will affect the ride dynamics of the truck. It will also affect the departure angle, but with those big wheels, that may not be as much of an issue.
You probably already know all of this...
 

SkiFreak

Crazy Person
If I put a rule on the screen, my guesstimate would be that a 14 foot box (the dark brown rectangle in your mock up image) would probably be just within that 60%, as long as you had nothing else behind it.
 

Abitibi

Explorer
I did read about that 60% AU rules on one of the forum and as skifreak said, I'd be pretty close but probably over as 14' is at the end of the lighter brown box (had to use 2 pieces of paper) but nothing is to scale right now.

There's only one local shop that I could find that can stretch frames so I'll check them out tomorrow. If I end up doing it now would be the time!

On a side note I went to the scale today. Went from 7250kg (16,000lbs) to 4400kg (9,700lbs)
That box was HEAVY!!!

Now it goes like hell compared to before and also rides like hell, lol
 
I talked about this a lot with Yabanja who was chasing weight and balancing issues with his swb Fuso. He came to the conclusion that especially with a shorter wb that staying under 50% was really necessary for handling capabilities (and thus safety?). No intention here to quote/misquote him but that was my takeaway. In my case this wasn't a deal breaker as I have other size limitations (a shipping constraint from my employer) but I am struggling mightily to find a way to get two full size mounted spares somewhere other than on the back wall. With a rack of any kind these are over 350# together and that's a huge amount way out on the end of a Defender-size frame in my case.

Fwiw, if I and my rig were both in NA at the same time, I'd bite the bullet and extend my rails between the wheels in a heartbeat. Likewise, if the 14' ambo box can't or shouldn't be shortened based upon your design needs, I think an extension would be money well spent for yours as well.

Alternately, break out the scales, spreadsheets and math and see if there's some way you can accurately account for your weights and get probably 75-80% of your total box and add-on weight forward of or on that rear axle? It's a wicked problem, because of course the wheels being close together also limits the under rail storage for water, batteries, and even fuel. Things like chains, heavy tools, even spares maybe could be considered for location in/on or in front of the cab as well to make a big change in balance. The guys in OZ will tell you that there is almost never enough weight over the front wheels in these cabovers for the front wheel traction to be comparable to a normal 4x4 or ute, especially on any kind of slope or climb.
 

SkiFreak

Crazy Person
The guys in OZ will tell you that there is almost never enough weight over the front wheels in these cabovers for the front wheel traction to be comparable to a normal 4x4 or ute, especially on any kind of slope or climb.
Not that it is really relative in this case, but for a Fuso Canter you are limited to a very meager weight limit over the front axle.
Yes, it would be nice to have a bit more weight up front, but if you don't watch out you can easily make your truck illegal.
 

Abitibi

Explorer
I had a better look this morning and I will need to extend the wheelbase. I'm thinking to grind all the rivets for the leafs hangers, move the rear suspension and crossmembers by a min. of 24" and bolt it back in its new location. Then I will extend the frame at the back. This way I don't have to cut the frame between the axle. I don't think I'd want to go much more than 24" (maybe 30) so as not to affect too much the turning radius. As is it turns on a dime and I love it. And while at it I will have to seriously consider if I keep the leafs or go with a coils conversion or air springs like the Kelderman system... And I was hoping to keep this build simple, lol.
 

mog

Kodiak Buckaroo
Perhaps this will give you some ideas as far as wheelbase, overhang, etc as it is the same camper (11' at the bottom, 12' overall length) on two different trucks, which have a hung difference in wheelbase. Both the Kodiak and the 1017 have a high steering turning angle (53°), but the Kodiak's wheelbase is 50 inches longer :oops: . In defense of the long wheelbase, these trucks (Kodiaks) were often used to pull heavy 5th-wheel/gooseneck trailers, so the long wheelbase and short overhang after of the axle was a plus. But of course the 1017 will turn circles around the Kodiak. For reference, the 1017 is on 395/85R-20 (46" x15") and the Kodiak is on 385/65R-22.5 (42"x15") the alinement point is the front of the flatbed

1017vsC4500.jpg

specs.png
 
Last edited:

Abitibi

Explorer
Looks like your computer skills are way above mine, no way I could superpose two pictures without using tape and paper, hahaha!

Interesting to see for sure. For comparaison, my current wheelbase is 136" so even shorter than the 1017! By bringing it between 160" and 166" would likely be the best compromise...

And this is the box that will be mounted on the back. Still a lot of thinking and planning on how I will mount it. Basically, I can either drop it on a narrow sub-frame as is which would "wrap" around the frame since the box is built with a reversed "U" in the center (the bottom of the side doors would be below the sub-frame) or fill that gap with extra storage and basically mount the box higher up (the side doors would be sitting on top of the sub-frame)... Since the interior height is 6'1", I guess the actual outside height dimension is approx. 8'.
On my truck, from the top of the frame rail to the top of the cab roof is approx. 6'4" (tbc)

The wheel well on the box currently won't line up with my axle so dropping over the frame as is wouldn't work... unless I'd flip the box 180 degrees! Anyway, lots can be done like partially filling the "U" area to allow side clearance, etc...

As usual, suggestions/opinions are welcomed! :D

Cheers,
David

327342335_763021861536873_4737512697249413298_n.jpg329515522_1174516456602027_2900182515797655654_n.jpg
 

mog

Kodiak Buckaroo
As usual, suggestions/opinions are welcomed! :D

I installed the 335/80R20 tires and painted your new rims red to match. ;)

It would seem that if you extended your wheelbase to match the existing wheel opening in your box, you would have a great compromise between a short maneuverable wheelbase (my Fuso had a 133" WB and it was outstanding++) and not too much overhang. That would allow you to mount your box lower helping the CG and overall height (both important offroad), and save you a ton++ of work modifying your box. I left the 'ghost' of your current axle location in the rendering. (rendering look slightly 'bent' due to different camera angles of combined photos)

Hino-1.jpg
 

Abitibi

Explorer
That's awesome!!! Love it, hahaha! Thanks so much for doing this!!!

ps. Love the Logo! Might need to bring it permanently on this build!
 
Last edited:

Bikersmurf

Expedition Leader
I'd move the axle back to fit the wheel wells
you'd not want to be unstable... probably a reason for the weight distribution of an ambo
 

Forum statistics

Threads
185,527
Messages
2,875,534
Members
224,922
Latest member
Randy Towles
Top