Barn Door for JK factory hardtops

jscherb

Expedition Leader
Received a different style latch from the window manufacturer to evaluate for the cargo windows/hatches. This one is a turn latch and it's fairly low profile - low enough that because the windows mount in a recess in the hardtop, the latches won't stick out past the outer surface of the hardtop (unlike the t-handles). I installed the latch alongside the t-handle in one of the sample windows. Haven't decided which latches should be used for production yet, I have a few more to evaluate. A few photos...

TurnLatch1_zpsw4xvdq3f.jpg


TurnLatch1-4_zpsrphkj1sa.jpg
 

Jurfie

Adventurer
Received a different style latch from the window manufacturer to evaluate for the cargo windows/hatches. This one is a turn latch and it's fairly low profile - low enough that because the windows mount in a recess in the hardtop, the latches won't stick out past the outer surface of the hardtop (unlike the t-handles). I installed the latch alongside the t-handle in one of the sample windows. Haven't decided which latches should be used for production yet, I have a few more to evaluate. A few photos...

TurnLatch1_zpsw4xvdq3f.jpg


TurnLatch1-4_zpsrphkj1sa.jpg

Those are way nicer than the T-handles, IMO.
 

jscherb

Expedition Leader
Back when I was working on the slider window kits for JK/JKU factory hardtops and now that I'm working on cargo window/hatch kits for the JK/JKU/JL/JLU I've gotten a lot of requests from people for similar kits for the TJ. I did a slider window kit design for the TJ a while back and more recently I did a design for a cargo hatch kit.

In all Wranglers, the factory hardtop windows are compound curved - they curve vertically and horizontally. This means a standard RV-style window or hatch can't be directly installed once the factory glass is removed. Because of the way the glass sets in a recess in the JK/JL hardtops, the retrofit kit to provide a flat mounting surface for the slider window or hatch is fairly straightforward but because of the way factory windows are mounted on the TJ hardtop, a retrofit kit for the TJ is a lot more complicated (and expensive).

Here's a concept image showing what a TJ slider kit would look like. The retrofit kit would replace the factory window; it would be bonded in place the same way the factory window is and would have the same plastic trim around the perimeter that the factory glass does. The kit would be a non-trivial shape; it would match the compound curves of the TJ factory glass around the edges and provide a flat mounting surface for the slider window. Based on the tooling investment to produce the retrofit kit and the cost of manufacturing the retrofit kit, I expect a complete slider window kit for both sides of the hardtop couldn't profitably retail for less than $800. I can't imagine too many TJ owners paying that much.

TJSliderConcept1_zpskc6v6uur.jpg


There are two ways a cargo hatch kit could be done - one way would be to use the same retrofit kit that the slider window would use and install a swing-up RV-style cargo window in the retrofit kit. This is exactly what I'm doing for the JK/JL cargo window kits.

Another way would be to make the hatch larger - the hatch could be the full size and compound curved shape of the factory window. It would be hinged at the top, latched at the bottom and the sealing surface would be the factory hardtop window mounting surface with appropriate weatherstrip applied. Flush latches and gas struts would be installed and it would be painted to match the hardtop. I would look like this:

TJCargoWindowConcept1_zpso5fvleqw.jpg


A MOLLE panel could be an option; the panel would mount to the roll bar and things could be hung on both the hatch-facing side of the panel and the inside of the panel. Open, the hatch with the MOLLE panel would look like this:

TJCargoWindowConcept2_zpsraaubclj.jpg


Based on the tooling cost and manufacturing cost for a TJ cargo hatch I estimate a kit couldn't be profitably sold for less than $750 each, and the MOLLE option would probably add another $200 each.

The above designs are practical and could be built, but other than doing the designs, I haven't done any work to implement either slider windows or cargo hatches for the TJ because I just don't think there would be enough demand in the TJ market to make it worthwhile to build these. If people have views to the contrary or other comments on anything above I'd be interested in what you think.
 

jscherb

Expedition Leader
During a fairly boring drive from Boston back to upstate NY today I stopped at a rest stop and a JK was there sporting a Rugged Ridge Spartan grille with a teeth insert. I was thinking about the look of the grille once I was back on the road and I wondered if Rugged Ridge ought to come out with matching fenders. When I got home I couldn't resist sketching a fender design...

BeastFenders_zpsmsf0ag1w.jpg


I don't really understand the appeal of the angry bird, teeth and shark grilles, so maybe claw fenders would be popular too but also beyond my understanding.

I'll be quick to add - while these fenders wouldn't be hard to make in fiberglass, I HAVE NO PLANS TO MAKE THEM!
 
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jscherb

Expedition Leader
I just threw up in my mouth!
Yeah, it's not for me either, but if people buy angry bird, teeth and even the train wreck Grumper grilles, I'm sure some of these would sell. A friend told me I should patent this fender design just to ensure they never could be produced :).
 

jscherb

Expedition Leader
This morning I made a run to Fedex and UPS, picked up a "production candidate" JL-Style Grille for the JK today from the plastic molding company that's doing this project for a startup. This isn't the final plastic it will be molded from, the production version will have a smooth surface - this one is molded from less expensive plastic. Probably will have time to test-fit it on the Jeep tomorrow, more photos to come.

JLStyleJKProductionCandidate1_zps3poz5hr6.jpg


Also picked up a gallon of polyester resin, it's for making the mold for the new TJ grille I posted about 3 weeks ago.
 

Bobzdar

Observer
During a fairly boring drive from Boston back to upstate NY today I stopped at a rest stop and a JK was there sporting a Rugged Ridge Spartan grille with a teeth insert. I was thinking about the look of the grille once I was back on the road and I wondered if Rugged Ridge ought to come out with matching fenders. When I got home I couldn't resist sketching a fender design...

BeastFenders_zpsmsf0ag1w.jpg


I don't really understand the appeal of the angry bird, teeth and shark grilles, so maybe claw fenders would be popular too but also beyond my understanding.

I'll be quick to add - while these fenders wouldn't be hard to make in fiberglass, I HAVE NO PLANS TO MAKE THEM!

Yeah, when I see those instead of giving them a Jeep wave I give them a middle finger, figure I'll give them a reason to be grumpy/angry to match the grill.
 

jscherb

Expedition Leader
This also showed up today, they're JK accessory adapter brackets for JL tailgates. They bolt to the JL tailgate hinges and provide a JK tailgate hinge bolt pattern so most accessories for JK tailgates (HiLift and Rotopax carriers, for example) will bolt right up to the JL. I designed these a few months ago and turned the engineering drawings over to Retrofit Offroad and this is the first chance I've had to see production parts. I don't have a JL but I do have a JL tailgate here so I'll bolt them to that as soon as I get a minute and post some photos with various JK accessories bolted to them.

JLJKProductionBrackets1_zpszygovynb.jpg
 

jscherb

Expedition Leader
I installed the JLJK adapter brackets on my test JL tailgate this morning.

JLJKBracketsF_zps7u3efvhe.jpg


Then I tried all of the JK tailgate hinge accessories I had on hand.

Rotopax:

JLJKRotopax_zpsxbwlijif.jpg


HiLift:

JLJKHiLift1_zpspukvg0kj.jpg


JLJKHiLift2_zpsijju105i.jpg


I've done several proof-of-concept mounting grids in the past few years:

JLJKGrid_zpsn03h8ta1.jpg


I've turned over engineering drawings to Retrofit for a grid like this that mounts on the tailgate hinges or the door hinges, it's a little different than the one in the photo above but the same idea. I think they'll probably produce that as well.

And jerry can mounts, these are unfinished proof-of-concept mounts I did a few years ago for the JK:

JLJKJerry_zpsbms9cp2d.jpg


I don't know if there's enough room on the JL between the jerry can and the tail light when the tailgate is fully open but not having a JL I don't have any way to test that but here's how it fits on the JK:

JerryJKTailgate4_zpswry87bhs.jpg


I'm very happy with how these brackets worked out. They should be useful for JL folks.
 

jscherb

Expedition Leader
Today I also did a test install of the production candidate JL-style grille I received on Monday. As part of the test I installed an aluminum mesh behind the slots; the grille has built-in mesh mounts which makes installing a mesh pretty easy.

JLStyleJKProductionCandidate1b_zpselvhvofp.jpg


JLStyleJKProductionCandidate1c_zpsbleeia1h.jpg


JLStyleJKProductionCandidate1d_zpsduzbznya.jpg


JLStyleJKProductionCandidate1e_zpsl2ybyqii.jpg


A video:


The grille fits very nicely, and the lower mounts I designed for it work very well - it's easy to install the grille and if there's a winch in front of the grille it's possible to install/remove the grille without removing the winch, which often isn't true with the factory grille.

I've just got a few post-molding tweaks to suggest to the plastics company to perfect it. The main mold they made is fine, the tweaks I need to suggest are little things after the grille comes out of the mold like exactly how the grille gets trimmed.
 

jscherb

Expedition Leader
@jscherb Would you be willing to share you molle panel cutout dimensions? Slot size, horizontal and vertical spacing, etc?

Thanks,
Mike
Mike,
The grid that MOLLE attaches to is called PALS - Pouch Attachment Ladder System (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pouch_Attachment_Ladder_System). The specification for a PALS grid consists of horizontal rows of 1 in (2.5 cm) A-A-55301A (Mil-W-43668) Type III nylon webbing, spaced 1 in apart, and reattached to the backing at 1.5 in (3.8 cm) intervals.

I usually make the slots in my metal PALS panels 1" high and spaced 1" between them, but because the metal panels are stronger than a fabric grid I usually increase the length of the slots appropriate to the panel I'm making.
Jeff
 

jscherb

Expedition Leader
I was asked about airflow of my grille - the person was wondering how the slot area compared to the stock JK grille slot area and how it compared to the JL and Gladiator slot area.

The factory JK grille has about 165 square inches of slot area. My grille has about 205 square inches of slot area, which is roughly a 25% increase in slot area over the factory JK grille.

I measured the slot size of the JL and Gladiator. The slots in my grille are the same size as the slots in the JL grille.

There are two versions of the Gladiator grille each having a different slot size. The slots in the version with trim inserts are about 2.5" wide; the slots in the version without the trim are 3" wide. The height of the slots in both is only slightly more than the slots in the JL grille. The biggest difference between the JL slots and the JT slots is the mesh - the JT mesh has much larger holes than the JL mesh.

Comparison photos of the JL and JT grille slots:

JLJTCompare2_zps1j1xkgw0.jpg


Both JL slots and the JT slots with trim are roughly the same size, the JT slots are about 1/4" taller than the JL slots although you can't tell that from this photo. The JL no trim slots are about 1/4" taller than the JL trim slots and about 1/2" wider. All of these measurements are approximate.

Since the JT's towing capacity doesn't depend on which version of the grille is installed, and since the slot sizes of both JL styles and the JT trimmed slot style are approximately the same, the main improvement in the JT's coiling capacity through the grille apparently is the much larger mesh.
 

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