Anyone bring firearms with them on trips?
- Thread starter kodiak1232003
- Start date
Skillet
Adventurer
VikingVince said:
Absolutely not.
VikingVince said:
His point is valid for himself or others who do not actually enjoy shooting guns and just carry them out of fear of others with guns.
I often carry a gun simply because I want to target shoot or trap shoot.
The nice thing is, I actually have the RIGHT to do that. He does not. There is something to be said for that.
I guess, with some rights or privileges there is inherent danger or risk involved.
Let me give you another example besides a gun, how about a car. When you make cars legal, there is an inherent risk for the driver and everyone else on the road, or patrons in a market place in Santa Monica, http://www.emergency-management.net/car_crash_la.htm. As a matter of fact, WAY more people die in cars every year than they do from guns, accidental or intentional. Look it up.
Should we ban cars? Or make more laws for car ownership? No? Why? Because most people love their cars and do not relate them to "violent acts" or death, nor do they pose a real threat to the government.
From Wiki: Road traffic injuries represent about 25% of worldwide injury-related deaths (the leading cause) with an estimated 1.2 million deaths (2004) each year - (World Health Organization)
Here is another, alcohol. Another case where more people die every year in the U.S., directly or indirectly, from legal drinking than do people from illegal gun violence or accidents.
People want their cars, drink and, in this country, guns. Legality of all of these comes with risk, but it is a risk we are apparently willing to take and fight to defend.
In Oz and Canada it is just cars and drink, as the government has taken it upon themselves to relieve them of one more of their rights.
At least the governments of these countries are happy now that they do not have to worry about the general populace taking up arms against them should they start removing more of their rights.
For that, I pity him and other countries with less rights than we have here.
Rant over.
Carry on.
ROFSheriffHL:
SOAZ
Tim and Kelsey get lost..
Okay, so this is getting pretty serious and on the border of heated.
Why dont we change the discussion to say, abortion... :av-7:
(just kidding!, trying to lighten it a bit!)
There were 3 topics a creative writing teacher of mine would not let anyone write about in college. Abortion, Religion and Gun Control. People get so heated! Its not that we shouldn't talk about it, its just that it can get too heated for an offroading forum so I thought I'd lighten it a little. Can you tell I'm an American can living in a PC world when I write this big of a disclosure without even giving it a second thought! Yikes.
Seriously though, vote for what you believe and put your money and time behind what you believe.
One thing is for sure. Just like the Flame that will be exstinguished in Hiroshima when the final Nuclear weapon is disassembled... Guns aren't going anywhere.
Why dont we change the discussion to say, abortion... :av-7:
(just kidding!, trying to lighten it a bit!)
There were 3 topics a creative writing teacher of mine would not let anyone write about in college. Abortion, Religion and Gun Control. People get so heated! Its not that we shouldn't talk about it, its just that it can get too heated for an offroading forum so I thought I'd lighten it a little. Can you tell I'm an American can living in a PC world when I write this big of a disclosure without even giving it a second thought! Yikes.
Seriously though, vote for what you believe and put your money and time behind what you believe.
One thing is for sure. Just like the Flame that will be exstinguished in Hiroshima when the final Nuclear weapon is disassembled... Guns aren't going anywhere.
awalter
Expedition Portal Team, Overland Certified OC0003
I guess I'm one of the few here in the SW that have no desire to carry. I have had experience with firearms both from military service & in the civilian world. I am not a hunter. I live in a large metropolitan area & have spent 30-60 days each year in the back country, both in our southwestern states & Mexico, over the past 25-30 years. My experiences have been both with small groups & solo.
Am I one of the lucky few who have never had an encounter, that I would deem necessary to want to be armed? Or are the folks that have told us of their experiences & their need to carry, the unlucky few?
I do admit to having a few encouters that I felt uneasy about, but turned out to be perfectly innocent. I blamed the uneasiness on my own paranoia.
Again, this is my choice & I do not begrudge others their choice.
I guess my desire for a society where folks don't feel the need to carry is too idealistic.
Vince, just take the next step & leave it at home. Try it, you might like it.
Al
Am I one of the lucky few who have never had an encounter, that I would deem necessary to want to be armed? Or are the folks that have told us of their experiences & their need to carry, the unlucky few?
I do admit to having a few encouters that I felt uneasy about, but turned out to be perfectly innocent. I blamed the uneasiness on my own paranoia.
Again, this is my choice & I do not begrudge others their choice.
I guess my desire for a society where folks don't feel the need to carry is too idealistic.
Vince, just take the next step & leave it at home. Try it, you might like it.
Al
Robthebrit
Explorer
Like I posted earlier I don't understand the whole gun thing, but I guess I never will, I want to live my entire life without ever touching one. The problems I see with guns are accidents and knee jerk reactions when you are angry. If there are no guns its a lot harder to get angry and shoot somebody in a rampage. For example, if you kill somebody in the UK with a gun its first degree murder, the fact you had the illegal gun or had to go and find an illegal gun shows all the intent necessary.
If a confrontation occurs in the US in the middle of nowhere it has a far higher chance of turning violent. The fact you have a gun is almost irrelevent as the people you are going to meet probably see the world the same way as you, they are almost certainly going to have guns. This alone gives any confrontation a different set of ground rules in the US than anywhere else I have been in the world. In addition, you are not necessilary going to win in a gun battle and are just as likely to get killed as the other guy. Whoever posted earlier that peoples attitues are different when they have a gun is bang on the money, your attitude may not be different when its friendly but when it starts to go sour then its more likely to shows - if it never shows you'll never use it. Somebody without a gun will respond very differently under bad situations. I would rather hone my skills in not having a gun and defuse the situtation via other means or remove myself from the situation, these are skills you can take anywhere. Once you leave the US your guns are of no use.
For all you people who carry guns how many times have you used them? I am guessing nobody has ever used one so am I any worse off by not having a gun? I have met my fair share of threatening and competely crazy people in the boonies but never felt threatened enough to do anything about it, sure they have been offensive and shouting things at the wife but you let that go, wave to them and keep similing. In this situation there were multiple people, stopping would of been asking for trouble and a gun would of been of no use.
With this in mind its a pity americans have to think that way, compared to most people I have met alot of them are more paranoid and worry about the extreme what if's - for example all the coments above about I have a gun to protect my wife or whatever. While thats very nobel where is the line between being paranoid and being prepared? My wife used to work in Compton, she don't need no help.
By the way I hope this didn't offend anybody. I wanted to say how I see things being from a different country but having lived here for 12 years (gives me a unique perspective). While I am 100% against guns I not saying you shouldn't have one, I 100% respect your rights to have a gun. I don't think I'll ever understand why.
Lets keep it friendly.
Rob
If a confrontation occurs in the US in the middle of nowhere it has a far higher chance of turning violent. The fact you have a gun is almost irrelevent as the people you are going to meet probably see the world the same way as you, they are almost certainly going to have guns. This alone gives any confrontation a different set of ground rules in the US than anywhere else I have been in the world. In addition, you are not necessilary going to win in a gun battle and are just as likely to get killed as the other guy. Whoever posted earlier that peoples attitues are different when they have a gun is bang on the money, your attitude may not be different when its friendly but when it starts to go sour then its more likely to shows - if it never shows you'll never use it. Somebody without a gun will respond very differently under bad situations. I would rather hone my skills in not having a gun and defuse the situtation via other means or remove myself from the situation, these are skills you can take anywhere. Once you leave the US your guns are of no use.
For all you people who carry guns how many times have you used them? I am guessing nobody has ever used one so am I any worse off by not having a gun? I have met my fair share of threatening and competely crazy people in the boonies but never felt threatened enough to do anything about it, sure they have been offensive and shouting things at the wife but you let that go, wave to them and keep similing. In this situation there were multiple people, stopping would of been asking for trouble and a gun would of been of no use.
With this in mind its a pity americans have to think that way, compared to most people I have met alot of them are more paranoid and worry about the extreme what if's - for example all the coments above about I have a gun to protect my wife or whatever. While thats very nobel where is the line between being paranoid and being prepared? My wife used to work in Compton, she don't need no help.
By the way I hope this didn't offend anybody. I wanted to say how I see things being from a different country but having lived here for 12 years (gives me a unique perspective). While I am 100% against guns I not saying you shouldn't have one, I 100% respect your rights to have a gun. I don't think I'll ever understand why.
Lets keep it friendly.
Rob
VikingVince
Explorer
DesertRose said:
My comment and opinion goes alot deeper than the simple statement I made. Did you notice that I said I also am a gun-toter? And that in itself does not make me violent either. That's not really the point I was trying to make.
I'm commenting on the gun culture in this country and the disposition to violence. No other modern, "civilized" nation equals our homicide rate per capita or our gun ownership per capita. Why? Part of the answer, I believe, lies in our heritage and the cultural mindset that is consciously and unconsciously passed on from generation to generation, i.e.our nation was born of violence, our ancestors committed systematic genocide of native peoples, the Wild West was 'tamed with guns' and is embedded in our mythology...We the people... believe in guns more than any other modern nation. This mindset can even be seen in the words of Pres. GWB, "Bring 'em on..." which he has since publicly acknowledged was a mistake and only contributed to violent reprisal. There are many other historic social, economic, and political factors contributing to our cultural disposition to violence which is not equalled elsewhere...I've only pointed to what might be some of the roots for this country...other than man's basic nature.
I'm not so sure that it's naive to think peace will someday exist in the human experiece. Philosophers have grappeled with that notion for centuries. I tend to think that mankind has made progress in that direction, albeit at a snails pace over centuries. Where will man be 500 - 1000 years from now? It seems to me that centuries of history show that man is slowly evolving - the decline of absolute monarchy, the Magna Carta, the rise of democracy and self-determination, habeas corpus, abolition of slavery, decline of communism, the beginnings of women's equality, the slow growth of polytheism....all these movements lead me to believe that mankind is slowly moving towards a more enlightened existence and is not stagnating or regressing. In light of this progression of man's consciousness as reflected in these movements and institutions, could living in peace be somewhere down the road, albeit hundreds of years? I think it could. I think history shows us there is hope Ultimately, that's why I believe it's important to think about our culture of guns and violence...just as we think "green" to save Mother Earth for future generations...what can we think and do to save us from each other?
In the meantime, I guess we'll both still be packing. :smilies27 :smilies27
teotwaki
Excelsior!
I'll carry a Glock .45, or Winchester shotgun or scoped .308
Side note:
Looks as if it took about 44 posts before this thread started going "political" rather than keeping it to "I carry this brand X firearm" or "I don't carry because I am a confident person".
I will carry when and where I feel it is prudent (urban/suburban/boondocks). I will carry whatever legal firearm is appropriate for the area (pistol/shotgun/rifle) and situation. Knives, clubs, pepper spray and other alternatives are always optional. I am at peace with a concious decision to facilitate someone else giving up their life while attempting to end mine through direct physical harm or theft of automobile, food or water that is critical to sustainment of my life.
Thread hijackers PLEASE go start a new Political/Off-Topic Guns Are Bad Rant and we can rehash all of the tired all arguments. This thread should be at least on-topic of Carry or Don't Carry.
Side note:
Looks as if it took about 44 posts before this thread started going "political" rather than keeping it to "I carry this brand X firearm" or "I don't carry because I am a confident person".
I will carry when and where I feel it is prudent (urban/suburban/boondocks). I will carry whatever legal firearm is appropriate for the area (pistol/shotgun/rifle) and situation. Knives, clubs, pepper spray and other alternatives are always optional. I am at peace with a concious decision to facilitate someone else giving up their life while attempting to end mine through direct physical harm or theft of automobile, food or water that is critical to sustainment of my life.
Thread hijackers PLEASE go start a new Political/Off-Topic Guns Are Bad Rant and we can rehash all of the tired all arguments. This thread should be at least on-topic of Carry or Don't Carry.
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DesertRose
Safari Chick & Supporting Sponsor
[this Comment Moved]
New Thread Started In General Discussion
New Thread Started In General Discussion
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DesertRose
Safari Chick & Supporting Sponsor
teotwaki said:
I'll start another thread, but I thought that we were conducting our discussion with a lot of thought and gentleman/womanly politeness.
As such, I thought the discussion was worthwhile, not tired.
I'll just take my HK97 off now and sulk in the corner . . . I mean start another thread.
Haggis
Appalachian Ridgerunner
I was enjoying this thread, it was interesting to read what choice of weapon or method of self defense people considered for their protetion. And I liked gettin' a read on every one's thoughts on the responsibilities involved in carring a firearm. I thought that there was a good sense of non hostile readiness, I don't remember Rambo checkin' in ready to gun everybody down. If you want to have a discussion on why many of us hold tightly to our rights and will not freely give them away start a thread and let's have a friendly disscussion, but don't pity this poor backwoods hick.
Now time to go out with my daughter and shoot some rounds off, Junior Turkey season is Sat. and the girl wants to get some more range time in.:ar15:
Now time to go out with my daughter and shoot some rounds off, Junior Turkey season is Sat. and the girl wants to get some more range time in.:ar15:
awalter
Expedition Portal Team, Overland Certified OC0003
This thread started with "Anyone bring firearms on trips?".
It did not ask for a response from only "packers". If you did not want specific participation it should have requested such.
Most if not all of the responses that were negative for "packing", concluded with a statement that they believed in the right for you to pack, & were only stating their opinion.
Most all responses that were positive, then went on to discribe what they packed, when they packed & there backrounds & their opinion.
I don't think this got out of hand politically.
It did not ask for a response from only "packers". If you did not want specific participation it should have requested such.
Most if not all of the responses that were negative for "packing", concluded with a statement that they believed in the right for you to pack, & were only stating their opinion.
Most all responses that were positive, then went on to discribe what they packed, when they packed & there backrounds & their opinion.
I don't think this got out of hand politically.
gjackson
FRGS
As someone who has been threatened with automatic weapons while overlanding, I'm still with Rob. Strange thing is I grew up in South Africa, one of the most violent places on the planet, and I have never ever felt the need to carry. In Congo when we were acosted en masse by dubious, threatening guys with AKs, my thought was not "I wish I had a gun" it was "keep it friendly, this won't go bad".
cheers
cheers