3rd gen pickup ifs suspension performance

[xlcaferacer]

Love it! As usual, KISS. Remind me what size tires you're wearing again? Are you worried about breaking axles at all? I know that's typically a concern for those that wheel really hard with a front locker in Toyota IFS.

She's on 35x12.50 BFG KM2 tires. I have 2 spare factory Toyota CV Axles that I re-greased and re-booted as spares. I also have a friend that has a pile of them from a few axle swaps. The factory CV's are supposed to be pretty burly, so we will see what happens. I did knock out the pressed in axle retention stubs and hit them with a grinder so that they come out like bolts. This makes a CV Axle change a sub-30 minute job when the time comes.

 

[xlcaferacer]

It's been a few months since my last post in this thread but I will update. I have been out camping and trail running a fair bit this summer in the mountains of Western Colorado. The problem is that I have been splitting my exploring time between the Pickup and my stock '77 40 series Landcruiser.
I have also picked up a fly-fishing habit in the last couple of years and it just feels right to take the old Landcruiser out on the backcountry/fly-fishing adventures. So I haven't been using the Pickup as much this year as I have in the past. Having two, fun, off-roadcapable Toyotas is a terrible problem to have! I wish everyone had this problem.
Anyway; back to the truck. The truck has performed flawlessly and is way more fun with the addition of the air locker up front. Did I need it for most of the trails I run? No. Do I use it all the time? No. With a locker in the rear I could have run everything that I have run up to this point; weather depending. I say "weather depending" because I have been shut down on a few obstacles when they were muddy or I had to use way more throttle to get up them without a front locker. Heavy throttle can lead to more breakage. The ARB front locker made these obstacles way more manageable and passable without extra stress on the truck due to the added traction. I would still rather have just a rear locker than having full time lockers front and rear. I feel that the ability to turn off the front locker when not needed is huge in helping all the front end parts on this era of Toyota truck or 4Runner survive off-road.
To put this in perspective for those of us running a simple, low $$, ifs Toyota pickup: I have run the Poughkeepsie Gulch trail (Ouray, Colorado) and the one major obstacle on it called "The Wall", 3 different times in the last 2 years while leading the trail during both the FJ Summit and Hundreds in the Hills. Both of these organized events have rigs of all capabilities registered. All that sign up for Poughkeepsie Gulch are required to have at least one locker and a good chunk of the rigs have two lockers. The majority of these rigs are modern, "built", "expo-style" Toyotas that cost many, many times more than we have into our trucks. 2 out of the 3 trips that I lead; I was the only one that made it up "the Wall" without a winch. One of those trips was with only a rear locker. This puts the capability of our trucks in perspective!
Another perspective of the low dollar build value of our trucks is this: while my Landcruiser is super fun; it has no gearing, no lockers, stock 40 year old suspension, and limited cargo capacity. With the market prices they are today; I could probably get $12,000 on up for the thing. Not that I will ever sell it. In comparison; I have a well built pickup that can reliably go a lot more places (including across country), for a lot less dough. I daily drive my truck and have probably $10k into it over a 6 year build, including purchase price. Let's just say that I am happy with my ifs Toyota pickup!
Here's a few picks and one of my Landcruiser:

 

[Trees81]

Looking good XL! As per usual your posts are great info....my old man emu suspension is great altough the factory front torsions were probably a little smoother but the rear leafs and nitrochargers all around are a nicer rider than my 03 runner (almost)....apparently a front locker is in order and 35s seem to hold out hahaha.

Great update, thanks again

 

[xlcaferacer]

Trees, im glad your new suspension worked out for you. Thanks for reporting back.
If anyone else wants to share what has worked for them when building this era truck, throw it up here. Let's see some pics as well. Has to be ifs though.?

 

[DaveInDenver]

Love it! As usual, KISS. Remind me what size tires you're wearing again? Are you worried about breaking axles at all? I know that's typically a concern for those that wheel really hard with a front locker in Toyota IFS.

I broke a couple of CV axles but none once I put in a front Air Locker. I speculate the reason for this is you can use less skinny pedal and get less wheel hop, which is what kills them. You also have a 50/50 torque split so there's no loading and unloading of the axles. But mostly I think it just comes down to staying in control more. It's on the long term wish list for the new truck to put in a front locker, probably the Harrop though this time.

 

[TheCascadeKid]

How much clearance do you have from the top of your rear tire to the underside of your flatbed? Is it enough? Scheming for a future project and this will be a great benchmark for me. Cheers!

 

[xlcaferacer]

DaveinDenver: totally agree with your thoughts on the locker saving cv Axles. The locker isn't a cheap mod but this is one of the many benefits it offers.
CascadeKid: I have about 5" of clearance between the flatbed and the tire while the 35's are aired up to about 25psi while sitting on flat ground in my driveway. I want to say that the bottom of the bed rails sits about 4" higher than the frame rail. It does rub marginally at full flex on the trail. But I can't tell that it is even rubbing while on the trail except that a little paint has been worn off. I tried to keep it as low as possible. And I took a ton of measurements for reference with the springs and tires I was going to run before I built it. I probably should have put it an inch higher but I liked where it sat with the body lines on the cab. And with 10psi in the tires on the trail, they just kind of "squish" into the bed rail so it's no big deal. The front end rubs more than the rear, and that really doesn't rub very much either. If I was concerned I could just lower my bumpstops. But I haven't felt the need to do so.

 

[xlcaferacer]

I started this thread back in 2014 and have thrown an update in here and there. Well, here's another one. I finally got around to installing my Blazeland "weld it yourself" long travel kit.
This is for size comparison for height and width. The 3rd gen 4Runner has a 1 1/4 inch Bilstien lift up front and 235/85r16 (32") tires.

I am now over 3 inches wider per side than I was before, but if you want more travel out of the ifs front end this is the only way to do it. This is supposed to almost double front travel and give 12" of travel with low profile bumpstops. I haven't measured travel numbers yet; but since I will be running stock bumpstops I figure around 11 inches of travel is probably about where it will end up. Between the extra width and the added travel, the truck should feel a lot more stable on the trail and "three wheel" a lot less on certain trail obstacles.
Along with the longer upper and lower control arms I installed: new polyurethane bushings, Moog ball joints, extended brake lines, Old Man Emu torsion bars, and Bilstien 5100 series shocks. In the rear I added longer shackles to my Old Man Emu Springs as well as longer brake lines. Probably need longer rear shocks but for now the Old Man Emu's that are already there are going to have to do.
How does it ride? Awesome! My stock rubber bushings were wasted, as were my front shocks. I'm sure those new parts are the reason it rides so nice now, but holy cow, it feels like a brand new truck. Haven't taken it off-road yet, but just bombing down washboarded and potholed roads there is a night and day difference.


In my snowbank parking lot tests, everything now appears to clear without rubbing with 35's. I'm probably sitting at about 3 inches of lift now and the truck doesn't feel big at all. To compensate for the extra front end width, I used rebuilt OEM Toyota T-100 CV Axles from CVJ Axle in Denver, CO. They do nice work at a reasonable cost.
For extra width in the rear and to kind of match the front width, I installed 1.25" wheel spacers on each side. I didn't want to go wider than this for two reasons: I didn't want the extra leverage on the wheel studs; and most importantly, the wider you go the more it affects your turning radius. I think 1.25" per side should be a happy compromise between making the truck look right and still work on tight trails.
This is how she sits now looking at it from the side:

I am heading to Moab in a couple weeks for the Cruise Moab event and will be putting her to the test on a couple "new to me" trails. Plan on running all 3 of the trails on the way to Golden Spike, and the Pickle Trail. These should be a solid test of suspension performance and how front end parts hold up. I will report back after the trip.

 

[Trees81]

Love it XL! Just purchased a turbo kit for my truck and eventually hoping for long travel...I for sure am interested in your review....keep it coming and have a safe journey...

 

[xlcaferacer]

Love it XL! Just purchased a turbo kit for my truck and eventually hoping for long travel...I for sure am interested in your review....keep it coming and have a safe journey...

Trees, I want a turbo! ?

 

[Trees81]

XL, I want a Blazeland kit. They're non existent up here in Canada....I figure I'll try to turbo this 5vze and then start saving for long travel...love to get the Blazeland kit....how is the truck at highway speed?

 

[xlcaferacer]

XL, I want a Blazeland kit. They're non existent up here in Canada....I figure I'll try to turbo this 5vze and then start saving for long travel...love to get the Blazeland kit....how is the truck at highway speed?

Truck does great on the highway. Rides like I imagine it did when new.

 

[xlcaferacer]

I just spent a week in Moab with my new Blazeland long travel kit. It worked awesome!
I ran a few new trails (Golden Spike, and Steel Bender) and one that I’d run in the past (Top of the World) for a solid comparison of old suspension vs. new suspension. The extra travel and width up front made a big difference. It felt way more stable and a lot less tippy as I didn’t lift a tire nearly as much as I had while wheeling the truck in the past. This was nice on a lot of obstacles over the course of the week in Moab. I spent the week wheeling with 4 “built” 80 series Landcruisers all on 37’s and a “built” FJ40 on 35’s. There were only a couple obstacles that they took that I chose to bypass because I didn’t want to break anything.
I’ve wheeled and camped many times with 3 out of 5 of these guys. These 3 guys came away the most impressed with how well the truck worked, as they had seen me lift a front tire in the air a lot in the past. However, by the end of the week they had all told me how impressed they were with what a simply built IFS truck did. A couple of them even mentioned that my truck made some of the off camber situations look a lot easier than their solid axle trucks. I would have to agree with them.
Here’s a couple pics of the truck in action:




There hasn’t been much feedback on this thread and I didn’t expect there to be. Most people that look to build the early IFS trucks and 4Runners go into it thinking that you need to do a solid axle swap to have a capable trail rig. I call BS on that and my truck is proof as it has reliably taken me more places than I ever thought it would go. I feel like I have finally met the pinnacle of what you can do with an IFS truck while keeping it reliable and on a budget. I have had a lot of fun building it up over the years and have learned a lot in the process. Most importantly: I learned how to drive it through it’s various stages. This goes a long way.
This truck is still my daily driver, camping rig, and wheeling truck. It has taken me to some really cool places over the years and will continue to do so. Now, go buy an old IFS Toyota pickup or 4Runner and start exploring and building. It’s a fun process, and keeping it cheap let’s you have money left over to go places. Google “Desk to Glory” if you want more inspiration to build one of these trucks. And stop me for an chat if you ever run across me while out and about.

 

[HotNotch]

What are you running for an idler arm? Is it the TC Caddy, and if so, would you recommend it? I'm also running 35s on my blazeland equipped 1991 Extended Cab

 

[DaveInDenver]

What are you running for an idler arm? Is it the TC Caddy, and if so, would you recommend it? I'm also running 35s on my blazeland equipped 1991 Extended Cab

I don't have my '91 anymore but I had a Total Chaos idler on it. It's gotten more expensive than when I bought it but I'd still happily spend the money on it.