XPCamper goes out of business, files for bankruptcy?

[rruff]

But, you might not have to worry too much about that...in Arizona the mandate is for the minimum wage to go up to something like $12.00 an hours in another week ($13\hr in Flagstaff).

That is going to worsen the AI obsolescence issue, rather than reduce it. Not saying a high MW is bad, and neither is AI and automation. It's something that we'll likely need to address pretty soon though, and carrying on as before won't cut it.

If you have a medical issue it can sink you even if you have insurance, which most do not. It’s just not sustainable in my opinion.

I thought it really sucked when Obamacare finally got thrashed out that the subsidy for the "really poor" mostly came from the "almost poor". It's very expensive for someone without kids, with a huge deductible.

 

[Martyn]

I thought it really sucked when Obamacare finally got thrashed out that the subsidy for the "really poor" mostly came from the "almost poor". It's very expensive for someone without kids, with a huge deductible.

it’s not ideal, but it’s also a lot better than nothing. The biggest problem is coverage is on a State and County level, this severely restricts the ability to spread the risk over a large population and reduce premiums. In our case in Prescott our county only offers expensive coverage through Blue Cross, my daughter who lives in Scottsdale has multiple choices of insurance coverage at reasonable rates. The fundamental issue is that at $13 per hour it’s either break even or running at a deficit by the end of the month. Heaven forbid if you need insulin, Big Pharma just put that out of the reach for the average Joe.

 

[68camaro]

Even at $12 or $13 an hour doesn’t cut it, people are still living paycheck to paycheck. With rents at and over $1.00 per square ft, food, fuel, and a couple of beers it’s all gone. If you have a medical issue it can sink you even if you have insurance, which most do not. It’s just not sustainable in my opinion.

Agreed, minimum wage was not suppose to give you a long term living income. It was and still is transitional to better pay, better jobs etc. Anyone who thinks they can or should live on $13 a hour is going to be in for rude surprise when they try. We have to increase our skills or move them to areas of better pay to live comfortably.

 

[rruff]

it’s not ideal, but it’s also a lot better than nothing.

It doesn't seem like it from my perspective. For 25 years before Obamacare I bought my own insurance on the open market. $10k deductible (per illness/injury not per year), and I pay 20% after that. The premium had climbed to $93/mo before Obamacare. Never used it. After Obamacare the cheapest I can get is >$600/mo, $7k deductible (per year) and that is close to the cap. Obamacare is definitely better, but not >6x better. I quit buying insurance; been paying the penalty but that ends this year. I could afford it, but it's ridiculous. I'll go to Mexico if I really need something; I've been doing that for dental for years.

Agreed, minimum wage was not suppose to give you a long term living income. It was and still is transitional to better pay, better jobs etc. Anyone who thinks they can or should live on $13 a hour is going to be in for rude surprise when they try. We have to increase our skills or move them to areas of better pay to live comfortably.

30% of full time (40+ hrs/wk) workers in the US make <$26k/yr or $13/hr. https://dqydj.com/income-percentile-calculator/

They do manage to live on it. Heck, I've lived on a lot less. But they aren't living in style. Definitely not compared to what low-skilled work paid 40 years ago.

 

[Bayou Boy]

30% of full time (40+ hrs/wk) workers in the US make yr or $13/hr. https://dqydj.com/income-percentile-calculator/

At any point in time, some portion of the workforce has to be below average. Honestly it’s their own fault if they aren’t trying to increase their value in the marketplace. It is incredibly easy to learn new skills today in your spare time with the internet connection that everyone has. But those same people go home at night and waste time on Netflix or whatever rather than improving themselves. I don’t feel sorry for anyone that paces inflation with their pay their entire lives. Sorry if that hurts peoples feelings or isn’t a popular opinion.


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[Martyn]

It doesn't seem like it from my perspective. For 25 years before Obamacare I bought my own insurance on the open market. $10k deductible (per illness/injury not per year), and I pay 20% after that. The premium had climbed to $93/mo before Obamacare. Never used it. After Obamacare the cheapest I can get is >$600/mo, $7k deductible (per year) and that is close to the cap. Obamacare is definitely better, but not >6x better. I quit buying insurance; been paying the penalty but that ends this year. I could afford it, but it's ridiculous. I'll go to Mexico if I really need something; I've been doing that for dental for years.



30% of full time (40+ hrs/wk) workers in the US make <$26k/yr or $13/hr. https://dqydj.com/income-percentile-calculator/

They do manage to live on it. Heck, I've lived on a lot less. But they aren't living in style. Definitely not compared to what low-skilled work paid 40 years ago.

Both of the subjects you bring up are a sad commentary on the state of affairs for the richest country in the world. That is until you look at where the wealth is concentrated.

 

[rruff]

At any point in time, some portion of the workforce has to be below average. Honestly it’s their own fault if they aren’t trying to increase their value in the marketplace.

Until you've walked a mile in their shoes, you have no idea. Everyone is born with different talents, lives in different environments, and has different upbringing.

In 1978 when I graduated HS, some guys got jobs at local factories making ~$10/hr with great benefits. That's $40/hr in today's money, or $80k/yr. These are guys who barely made it through HS. So tell me, what has changed? What has changed is that we've pushed these people down into poverty where before they could make a decent living. This topic started when someone with several years experience in welding and fab (including fiberglass), said they were offered $12/hr to work at XPCamper.

 

[Victorian]

Here on the west coast of Canada you need to make $25/hour to pay for everything. Currently a 1 bedroom in Victoria is going for $1600 a month...

 

[Bayou Boy]

Until you've walked a mile in their shoes, you have no idea. Everyone is born with different talents, lives in different environments, and has different upbringing.

In 1978 when I graduated HS, some guys got jobs at local factories making ~$10/hr with great benefits. That's $40/hr in today's money, or $80k/yr. These are guys who barely made it through HS. So tell me, what has changed? What has changed is that we've pushed these people down into poverty where before they could make a decent living. This topic started when someone with several years experience in welding and fab (including fiberglass), said they were offered $12/hr to work at XPCamper.

Those people might need to move to make the money. Those factory jobs are now in oil and gas at close to the same money. There are a ton of guys I went to high school with that got no additional schooling that are now in the $80-120k range at their late 30s. The opportunities are there.

Again, there is zero excuse for not trying to better yourself in today’s environment. None. A lot of people in this country are just complaining without even trying to make their lives better. I have no pity for that. And we shouldn’t as a society.


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[utherjorge]

I'm not too worried about automation. We just did a 15 million dollar equipment install. The factory techs can barely make it work. Going to be a while before machines don't need humans keeping an eye on them.

I'm sad to say that where I live, they can't find people to work...across the region. When you find someone, they can't pass the whiz quiz with more than a 65%...and it's back to square one.

I've started building this thing I've created...and if I can get it to fly, there's no one within hours that could even make it for me.

 

[utherjorge]

Those people might need to move to make the money. Those factory jobs are now in oil and gas at close to the same money. There are a ton of guys I went to high school with that got no additional schooling that are now in the $80-120k range at their late 30s. The opportunities are there.

I don't know about excuses, but I do know that the oil and gas boom is a real thing, even where I live. If you want to move, or are willing to...you can definitely live comfortably. And this is before getting into the transportation industry, where trucking is begging for people...and railroads will be within two years. Begging.

 

[BritKLR]

I don't know about excuses, but I do know that the oil and gas boom is a real thing, even where I live. If you want to move, or are willing to...you can definitely live comfortably. And this is before getting into the transportation industry, where trucking is begging for people...and railroads will be within two years. Begging.

Oil/gas and all the support industries were going nuts recruiting people a couple of years ago. My son was a sophomore in aviation school and they were recruiting them pre-graduation, not for working on planes or helicopters but, to maintain remote drill sites. $80k, O/T, perdiem, company truck with tools and in some cases housing. Some of his classmate went that direction.

 

[craig333]

A simple fact can help with perspective. Investments in automation always reduce aggregate man-hrs of work, else cost wouldn't be reduced and they wouldn't happen. In other words, automation destroys jobs, always. This isn't a bad thing. Actually it's the only way prosperity improves in a sustainable fashion. But those jobs lost must be replaced by increasing demand in new fields, and that demand is driven by consumer buying power. Billionaires accumulating assets does not create jobs.

So far the only jobs we've lost were two stacker (pick up box, put on pallet over and over until you develop back problems and repetitive stress injuries) positions. No loss there.

 

[craig333]

It doesn't seem like it from my perspective. For 25 years before Obamacare I bought my own insurance on the open market. $10k deductible (per illness/injury not per year), and I pay 20% after that. The premium had climbed to $93/mo before Obamacare. Never used it. After Obamacare the cheapest I can get is >$600/mo, $7k deductible (per year) and that is close to the cap. Obamacare is definitely better, but not >6x better. I quit buying insurance; been paying the penalty but that ends this year. I could afford it, but it's ridiculous. I'll go to Mexico if I really need something; I've been doing that for dental for years.



30% of full time (40+ hrs/wk) workers in the US make <$26k/yr or $13/hr. https://dqydj.com/income-percentile-calculator/

They do manage to live on it. Heck, I've lived on a lot less. But they aren't living in style. Definitely not compared to what low-skilled work paid 40 years ago.

Around here people make that work by having two to four families living under one roof. Drive around a poor neighborhood. At least four cars parked there and everyone is working.

 

[rruff]

So far the only jobs we've lost were two stacker (pick up box, put on pallet over and over until you develop back problems and repetitive stress injuries) positions. No loss there.

I'm talking about the man-hrs to produce a given product or service. And that includes the suppliers of automation as well as the users. Aggregate man-hrs/production go down, else they're be no cost savings and no point.