WTB - Hardened (bear-resistant) all-terrain camper

[ExpeditionPlatypus]

I am interested in buying an all-terrain camper/expedition vehicle that can withstand one or more attacks by grizzly bears. The part of the vehicle that contains the living/sleeping area should protect the occupants during one or more attacks. And, the vehicle should be able to traverse rocky and/or hilly terrain, creeks, etc. in remote areas (mainly in the US and Canada).

One possible vehicle I thought of is an LMTV or FMTV with a habitat at back. The habitat would need to have hardened walls (steel, etc.) -- not thin fiberglass found in standard RV's.

I am interested in purchasing within about a month.

Thanks.

 

[Victorian]

As long as you are not dealing with polar bears a regular high end expedition truck will do. The weak points are the storage hatches, doors and windows. But most importantly, you need to keep a clean camp to not attract wildlife. I'm out in bear country all the time. To be honest, I'm more worried about cougars stalking you and critters that will ruin your rubber hoses etc.

 

[ExpeditionPlatypus]

As long as you are not dealing with polar bears a regular high-end expedition truck will do. The weak points are the storage hatches, doors and windows. But most importantly, you need to keep a clean camp to not attract wildlife. I'm out in bear country all the time. To be honest, I'm more worried about cougars stalking you and critters that will ruin your rubber hoses etc.

Thank you for this information. Won't be that far north to worry about polar bears. And, will try to keep a clean camp. But, vehicle will be used for extended periods in bear country, so prefer to be safe than sorry. Also, thank you for pointing out dangers with cougars and other animals. If in cougar/mountain lion country, will likely use motion or timed alarms and/or lights. Not sure how to handle animals that can get at rubber hoses, though.

I took a look at the links you provided. Seems like they sell nice products but are mainly upfitters. Also, I'm curious how well the composite walls would hold up to an attack. I've seen pictures of some RVs after bear attacks, where they clawed large holes in the sides of RVs with fiberglass walls. Seems like I would need thicker walls. AIso, I'm most interested in a vehicle that has already been built. I'm open to doing a little modification but prefer something that will be ready to be used in about a month.

 

[mog]

I'm curious how well the composite walls would hold up to an attack. I've seen pictures of some RVs after bear attacks, where they clawed large holes in the sides of RVs with fiberglass walls. Seems like I would need thicker walls. AIso, I'm most interested in a vehicle that has already been built. I'm open to doing a little modification but prefer something that will be ready to be used in about a month.

While I am not a 'bear' I have 'attacked' both the walls and extrusions of a Total Composite kit (during building) with a 2 lb hammer and they can withstand that. Pretty impressive. Perhaps something like their kit with as Andreas mentions a minimum of doors, and if you want more protection glue/laminate aluminum plates to the exterior that is within 'bear-reach'. I have aluminum plates on the ends of my camper (composite but not TC) and there have been no issues with it delaminating. The higher the cabin (like on LMTV) the better. Also, you could incorporate mounting fittings for a bear deterrent electric wire (fence) to the sides and mount/use that if in heavy bear country. I have friends in Alaska, and they speak highly to the usefulness of those. HERE

One other option is to use a C4500 Kodiak as the primary truck, bears leave us alone out of professional courtesy.

Update-
If you want to go more 'extreme' I've thought that a camper built to side-in a dump truck (because of 4x4 availability, not for bear defense until now) would work. The windows and composite sides would be well above a bear's reach, and the door access via the rear could be protected with a fold-up steel liftgate.

Or an ex-aircraft service truck. Just raise the cabin in the evenings (also for great views). Important Suggestion -Placecard the exit door when elevated or a rude awaking in the morning

Remember I did say 'extreme'

 

[ExpeditionPlatypus]

While I am not a 'bear' I have 'attacked' both the walls and extrusions of a Total Composite kit (during building) with a 2 lb hammer and they can withstand that. Pretty impressive. Perhaps something like their kit with as Andreas mentions a minimum of doors, and if you want more protection glue/laminate aluminum plates to the exterior that is within 'bear-reach'. I have aluminum plates on the ends of my camper (composite but not TC) and there have been no issues with it delaminating. The higher the cabin (like on LMTV) the better. Also, you could incorporate mounting fittings for bear deterrent electric 'fence' to the sides and mount/use that if in heavy bear country. I have friends in Alaska, and they speak highly to the usefulness of those. HERE

One other option is to use a C4500 Kodiak and the primary truck, bears leave us alone out of professional courtesy.

Thanks. I think these are good ideas, though I'm mainly looking for a vehicle that's already been built.

I agree, the higher the cabin, the better. That's also important as it probably means the vehicle has more ground clearance and so can handle more types of terrain.

Definitely planning on using an electric fence, though I was thinking of installing in the ground. I'll look into how to attach to the vehicle, as well.

Thanks again.

 

[ExpeditionPlatypus]

While I am not a 'bear' I have 'attacked' both the walls and extrusions of a Total Composite kit (during building) with a 2 lb hammer and they can withstand that. Pretty impressive. Perhaps something like their kit with as Andreas mentions a minimum of doors, and if you want more protection glue/laminate aluminum plates to the exterior that is within 'bear-reach'. I have aluminum plates on the ends of my camper (composite but not TC) and there have been no issues with it delaminating. The higher the cabin (like on LMTV) the better. Also, you could incorporate mounting fittings for a bear deterrent electric wire (fence) to the sides and mount/use that if in heavy bear country. I have friends in Alaska, and they speak highly to the usefulness of those. HERE

One other option is to use a C4500 Kodiak as the primary truck, bears leave us alone out of professional courtesy.

Update-
If you want to go more 'extreme' I've thought that a camper built to side-in a dump truck (because of 4x4 availability, not for bear defense until now) would work. The windows and composite sides would be well above a bear's reach, and the door access via the rear could be protected with a fold-up steel liftgate.

View attachment 712272

Or an ex-aircraft service truck. Just raise the cabin in the evenings (also for great views). Important Suggestion -Placecard the exit door when elevated or a rude awaking in the morning
View attachment 712274

Remember I did say 'extreme'

I like your thinking out of the box here. I'm open to creative ideas and the aircraft service truck approach is truly unique. Not sure I would want to go down that route, though. If the winds were strong or the 500-1,000 lb bear decided to push against or shake the arms that elevate the habitat, I could end up pretty bruised (at best). And, as you mentioned, there's always the possibility of accidentally walking out and falling 20+ feet to the ground (somehow this brings pictures of a Road Runner and Wile E. Coyote cartoon to mind).

 

[SFP]

Might I ask where you are planning on camping out for said extended periods of time?

A clean camp is the single biggest thing one can do to prevent bears or other wildlife from being interested. If at all possible don't cook in your RV or close to your tent. All food should be stored securely in bear proof cases. Don't leave snacks/food in car/cab of truck. Safely and securely dispose of food scraps. Make sure all windows are up, all doors are locked (have had friends who left doors unlocked and had a bear go through the inside of their car/truck). Wolf piss (you can buy it) dribbled around the perimeter of camp can help. Dogs can also help if you have a larger breed, but don't leave them tied up outside at night. Simple trip-wire with empty cans or such that make noise works in a pinch as well so long as one has the rope/line.

I second that cougars are a bigger threat, and yes animals that may chew up hoses and such (rats, raccoons, etc). Personally a big bull moose (big bull elk comes in a close second) with an attitude can do the most damage in my experience.

I spent over twenty years camping in Alberta in the Rockies as well as Northern Alberta (Slave Lake and up by Fort Mac), the Yukon and what used to be The Northwest Territories and never experienced any problems with Grizzlies myself. Saw them tons, had them walk into camp and look around, but make noise and they leave. It's been my experience if one has bear troubles it's because they have gotten used to humans, typically lazy ones who leave readily available food out and about - they learn and learn well.

Of course back in AB we used to play the "how long into the season before a tourist is killed/attacked by a Grizzly and what country are they from".

Signs everywhere warning people to:
- do not approach bears
- stay in car
- do not come between mom and cubs
- do not try and feed the bears
- do not try and pose with bears - they are wild

And yet year after year people die doing all of the above.

However if you want extreme rig protection look at what the folks in Churchill Manitoba do to deal with Polar Bears.

 

[AbleGuy]

This is one of the truly more interesting (and dare I say bizarre?) inquiries posted here. What is your more important specific concern…safety for occupants while inside the camper or damage to the camper while you are out in the field?

If you’re that concerned about bear danger, one has to wonder what your plans are for personal safety while outside the rig, as this is perhaps even more important.


BTW, the simple ideas of using a solar powered electric fence and a high off the ground camper seem like reasonable, adequate solutions.

Finding something in a month that’s pre-built with heavy, hardened steel side walls is going to be much harder than the proverbial needle in the haystack search, I’d think.

*and why? (If you’re willing to share)

 

[zip]

 

[Hank Scorpio]

Why would you need this? Are you planning on harassing or baiting bears into attacking you?

If not, you have no need for a"vehicle that can withstand one or more attacks by grizzly bears".

 

[jadmt]

 

[Wakeup2river]

LOL Guy wants to buy a hard side for all the valid reasons and the forum turns into ask Dr Frank Craighead.

 

[ExpeditionPlatypus]

Might I ask where you are planning on camping out for said extended periods of time?

A clean camp is the single biggest thing one can do to prevent bears or other wildlife from being interested. If at all possible don't cook in your RV or close to your tent. All food should be stored securely in bear proof cases. Don't leave snacks/food in car/cab of truck. Safely and securely dispose of food scraps. Make sure all windows are up, all doors are locked (have had friends who left doors unlocked and had a bear go through the inside of their car/truck). Wolf piss (you can buy it) dribbled around the perimeter of camp can help. Dogs can also help if you have a larger breed, but don't leave them tied up outside at night. Simple trip-wire with empty cans or such that make noise works in a pinch as well so long as one has the rope/line.

I second that cougars are a bigger threat, and yes animals that may chew up hoses and such (rats, raccoons, etc). Personally a big bull moose (big bull elk comes in a close second) with an attitude can do the most damage in my experience.

I spent over twenty years camping in Alberta in the Rockies as well as Northern Alberta (Slave Lake and up by Fort Mac), the Yukon and what used to be The Northwest Territories and never experienced any problems with Grizzlies myself. Saw them tons, had them walk into camp and look around, but make noise and they leave. It's been my experience if one has bear troubles it's because they have gotten used to humans, typically lazy ones who leave readily available food out and about - they learn and learn well.

Of course back in AB we used to play the "how long into the season before a tourist is killed/attacked by a Grizzly and what country are they from".

Signs everywhere warning people to:
- do not approach bears
- stay in car
- do not come between mom and cubs
- do not try and feed the bears
- do not try and pose with bears - they are wild

And yet year after year people die doing all of the above.

However if you want extreme rig protection look at what the folks in Churchill Manitoba do to deal with Polar Bears.

I'm looking at either Central/Interior Alaska or the southern NWT.

I'm going to try my best to keep a clean camp. But, keep in mind you're vulnerable from the point you leave a safe camper to the point you return when going to eat food. Not as bad as being vulnerable 100% of the time if eating inside a camper, though.

Food will be stored in bearproof containers/storage. All doors to vehicle will remain locked at all times and windows always up.

I'm definitely not interested in being attacked and mauled. Have read considerably about bear behavior and how best to avoid problems. Need to read more about moose and other animals, especially when it comes to ways to deter them and keep the vehicle safe from damage.

 

[mog]

If you’re that concerned about bear danger, one has to wonder what your plans are for personal safety while outside the rig, as this is perhaps even more important.

Cabela's has that covered. I think that both MossOak and Woodland are out of stock, but OD is in stock with free shipping.
For coastal brown bears, anything less than 20mm HE is a waste of time

 

[ExpeditionPlatypus]

This is one of the truly more interesting (and dare I say bizarre?) inquiries posted here. What is your more important specific concern…safety for occupants while inside the camper or damage to the camper while you are out in the field?

If you’re that concerned about bear danger, one has to wonder what your plans are for personal safety while outside the rig, as this is perhaps even more important.


BTW, the simple ideas of using a solar powered electric fence and a high off the ground camper seem like reasonable, adequate solutions.

Finding something in a month that’s pre-built with heavy, hardened steel side walls is going to be much harder than the proverbial needle in the haystack search, I’d think.

*and why? (If you’re willing to share)

I'm concerned about safety for the occupants while inside the camper, as well as damage to the camper while outside of it. Certainly safety for the occupants is extremely important. But, if you leave the vehicle and come back to one that is severely damaged while in the middle of nowhere, the situation might be much more than an inconvenience.

Regarding personal safety outside the rig -- bear spray, bear bangers, noise makers, flares, an electric fence, a rifle (as a last resort), situational awareness (e.g. staying away from cubs, staying away from carcasses, keeping a distance from other feeding areas, etc.), understanding bear behavior, etc. I'll also mention another deterrent while inside the vehicle is an unwelcome mat. Would probably need at least several of these,, though.

Please understand these are all good questions--I appreciate everyone asking and don't mind discussing. But, I also want to keep in mind the purpose of this forum--to facilitate buying/selling expedition vehicles. So, it might be best to discuss these other topics by DM or in another forum.