sorry if im coming in late on this but a really good and simpe way to learn and figure this out is to take a look at a boat. there are many sights online that show boat wiring. and also marine fuse blocks come in many styles and sizes and are made not to rust as some ive seen on campers, for instance brass contacts instead of steel. the only time you really need relays and solenoids are under large amp draws. 12v lights,fans,stereos.. are fine run straight from battery, thru fuse block then to unit. also, dual battery setups on boats are about the simplest systems ive seen. even for trucks. a dual battery switch with built in isolator is compact, easy to wire and pretty much trouble free. check out www.westmarine.com and see.
Wiring Fuse panel/circuit breaker?
- Thread starter Tress
- Start date
4RunAmok
Explorer
Traindriver said:
The above is only somewhat true.
In larger guage wiring with high amp draws, I have heard of the wiring heating up so such a point the the solder melted and the wiring came undone.
The right way, is with the right crimping tool made for the crimp you're using. And the proper crimp to fit the gauge of wire you're using.
Proper crimping tools are expensive, $50 to $500 easy. Which is why most crimps people see come apart, the local Car Audio guy is not going to spend $100 on a crimper. A friend of mine has the proper crimp PRESSES for the 350 AMP Anderson Powerpole SB Connectors, He ONLY uses crimp on these, and I can assure you they will not let go of the wire.
For added safety you can solder this connection after properly crimped, but crimped correctly, you won't need to.
4RunAmok
Explorer
Just for fun, here's the beginnings of the system I'm installing in my 4Runner. The wiring for the air compressor is not started yet. The new terminal lugs are not on yet, the wire to the starter will be replaced, the ground wires will be replaced, circuit breakers will be installed.
1st Pic, The old battery setup.
2nd Pic, The new battery bracket, with fuse block mounted via machine screws into tap threaded holes.
3rd Pic, 4 Gauge Power and Ground wires installed, and some wiring started.
4th Pic, Crimped connector to the 4 Gauge wire. It helps to have the right crimp tool, virtually the same as if I bought the wire with the end already on it.
5th Pic, Another wiring view
1st Pic, The old battery setup.
2nd Pic, The new battery bracket, with fuse block mounted via machine screws into tap threaded holes.
3rd Pic, 4 Gauge Power and Ground wires installed, and some wiring started.
4th Pic, Crimped connector to the 4 Gauge wire. It helps to have the right crimp tool, virtually the same as if I bought the wire with the end already on it.
5th Pic, Another wiring view
Dusty T.
Observer
4RunAmok said:
With regards to crimping, what to do about crimping #8 to #2 connectors? I've been searching around on installing a "new & improved" dual battery system on my Tacoma. This time around, I'm thinking about running #4 or #2 wire in place of the old #8 wire to my aux battery. How am I to go about getting these large wires properly crimped on a ring connector? Any recommendation on an affordable crimper, or do you just take the wires somewhere to have the connectors installed? Been reading about folks using a vice, and even a hammer as a method of crimping which would make me a bit nervous.
4RunAmok
Explorer
The Professional crimpers aren't cheap, which is what my friend has.
I can see how a vice could work.
Basically what you want to do is take a mostly blunt v-edged chisel and hammer the two ends of the crimp downward, and then take some strong pliers or vice, and start "rolling" each of them inward to get a good bite on the wire until it is tight and won't budge.
A lot of the BIG wire crimps look like medium sized bolt cutters, like this:
You can get one here for ~$40.00: http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=360-646
Don't forget connectors, they sell them at that site too.
I can see how a vice could work.
Basically what you want to do is take a mostly blunt v-edged chisel and hammer the two ends of the crimp downward, and then take some strong pliers or vice, and start "rolling" each of them inward to get a good bite on the wire until it is tight and won't budge.
A lot of the BIG wire crimps look like medium sized bolt cutters, like this:
You can get one here for ~$40.00: http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=360-646
Don't forget connectors, they sell them at that site too.
ntsqd
Heretic Car Camper
You should be able to buy terminals for that wire size with the correct bolt/stud hole size and not need to try to crimp a mis-matched wire - connector combination.Dusty T. said:
Electricians that do high voltage panel work need the correct crimping tool. If you know one or of one that may be an option for you. Local battery stores can usually crimp cables or outright make them to size.
Have a look at Waytek & Del City, they may have economical crimping options.
Dusty T.
Observer
4RunAmok said:
Thanks a ton for the info. Hopefully I'm not hijacking this thread, but thought it would be a good time to ask about crimps. I'll check out those crimpers and may get one if they're affordable.
You are correct- I'm just looking for larger size wire crimps and not trying to mismatch wire sizes together.
Wagontrain
New member
I use a propane torch, solder and heat shrink on anything over #4.
WT
WT
ntsqd
Heretic Car Camper
I read the post literal, but still wasn't convinced that was the intent. Figured I'd address it just in case.4RunAmok said:
For soldering large gauge cables, either Del City or Waytek has a solder pellet that is dropped into the connector ahead of the wire. This is a good way to insure that you don't over-solder the connection and open up yourself to a brittle fatigue failure down the road. (BT, DT)
4RunAmok
Explorer
Talk to anyone who does Winches and ask why they don't solder, or if they do, why do they ALSO crimp?
They'll probably explain to you what I've already said, high current draw=high heat in wiring=solder failure when you want it least.
One thing I want to add. I've never SEEN a solder failure cause by high wire heat. I know that heat can EASILY be created in wiring, hot enough to blow large fuses, so solder is easy. I've only heard of cases where it has happened.
They'll probably explain to you what I've already said, high current draw=high heat in wiring=solder failure when you want it least.
One thing I want to add. I've never SEEN a solder failure cause by high wire heat. I know that heat can EASILY be created in wiring, hot enough to blow large fuses, so solder is easy. I've only heard of cases where it has happened.
Last edited:
ntsqd
Heretic Car Camper
I wouldn't chose to solder a large cable, but if that is the only option then do so with care and understanding.
Seems to me that if the connection is getting hot enough to melt solder that you've got a real problem as that is at least 360*f. At that point you're throwing away a LOT power in the highly resistive connection. The insulation is also close to dripping off the cable. Was time to stop some time ago.
Seems to me that if the connection is getting hot enough to melt solder that you've got a real problem as that is at least 360*f. At that point you're throwing away a LOT power in the highly resistive connection. The insulation is also close to dripping off the cable. Was time to stop some time ago.
Robthebrit
Explorer
4RunAmok said:
Why exactly do large wires equal hot wires? You use large wires to prevent them from getting hot at a given current draw, if they are still getting hot they are not big enough for the given run length. A large capacity wire should never be too hot to touch. Most people install winches with serverly undersized wiring, something like #2 for a run from the front to the back. This is simply a bad install and such installs are what create stories of solder joints coming apart.
There is no point in crimping and then soldering, its no better than solder alone. When soldering a fatigue point occurs where the solder ends and the wire begins. The solder is very strong compared to the wire and if the wire vibrates it will ultiamtely snap exactly where the solder ends. The wire will break in the same place regardless of whether you soldered to another wire or to the crimped connector. A high quality crimp is all you need, connections in aircraft are very rarely soldered.
Rob
Wagontrain
New member
Robthebrit said:
I guess I'm all about overkill. I use 2/0 to feed all the power from my battery boxes located in the rear drop box. I crimped/soldered and ran wraps of smaller (16g) cable around the connector and cable jacket as a strain relief. The double heat shrunk them. 2/0 is not easy to work with so I figured crimps and solder was the solution. I use #2 from the alt(120A) for the charge, so heat build up won't be an issue. Even when winching severely, I don't notice a change in cable temperature. The biggest issue I have is keeping the cable from chafing on the frame. I don't believe in using the frame as a ground so I have four 2/0 cable running from the back. This is a SOA\v8\fj40. Haven't figured out what I'm going to do with the HJ60, but it won't be 2/0, that's for sure.
WT