Will any of the Garmins have better GPS than phone?

socceronly

Active member
Was looking at getting a Garmin GPS/messenger.

It seems when I am hiking, where I am going I get nothing on my phone for GPS.

Will a Garmin have the same problem or do they get better reception?

Do some have better GPS reception than others? Say inreachmini vs montana700i

Thanks
 

toymaster

Explorer
I may be misunderstanding your question. However, phones use cell phone towers to triangulate your locations it is not GPS. An actual GPS uses the Global Positioning System which consists of satellites in space, usually 4-6 of them to calculate your location. The GPS systems covers the entire earth, except where blocked for security reasons.
 

TavisB

New member
I may be misunderstanding your question. However, phones use cell phone towers to triangulate your locations it is not GPS. An actual GPS uses the Global Positioning System which consists of satellites in space, usually 4-6 of them to calculate your location. The GPS systems covers the entire earth, except where blocked for security reasons.
Just no.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
 

TavisB

New member
Was looking at getting a Garmin GPS/messenger.

It seems when I am hiking, where I am going I get nothing on my phone for GPS.

Will a Garmin have the same problem or do they get better reception?

Do some have better GPS reception than others? Say inreachmini vs montana700i

Thanks
What phone do you have? Most modern smart phones DO have GPS. They do not "just triangulate from towers".

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:

TavisB

New member
It's a Motorola one action. Not an expensive phone.
You have GPS. You might have it disabled in the settings or something.

COMMS
WLAN Wi-Fi 802.11 a/b/g/n/ac, dual-band, Wi-Fi Direct, hotspot
Bluetooth 5.0, A2DP, LE, EDR
GPS Yes, with A-GPS, GLONASS, GALILEO, BDS
NFC Yes
Radio FM radio
USB USB Type-C 2.0, USB On-The-Go



Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
 

Rando

Explorer
I may be misunderstanding your question. However, phones use cell phone towers to triangulate your locations it is not GPS. An actual GPS uses the Global Positioning System which consists of satellites in space, usually 4-6 of them to calculate your location. The GPS systems covers the entire earth, except where blocked for security reasons.

This is wrong on so many levels. Yes, most phones have an actual GPS receiver, they work just like a standalone GPS when you don't have cell service. When you do have cell service, the phone GPS works better than a standalone GPS as it can also use the cell service to sync time and ephemeris data. GPS is not blocked for security reasons, and that would be pointless as there are several other GNSS services (Beidu, GLONASS etc) that you could use if GPS were blocked.
 

axlesandantennas

Approved Vendor
I may be misunderstanding your question. However, phones use cell phone towers to triangulate your locations it is not GPS. An actual GPS uses the Global Positioning System which consists of satellites in space, usually 4-6 of them to calculate your location. The GPS systems covers the entire earth, except where blocked for security reasons.
This is almost entirely incorrect.

Modern GPS use at a minimum 3 GPS satellites to get a Lat/Long fix, called 2D. It needs 4 to get a 3D fix, which gives altitude as well. However, most modern receivers are 12 channel, which means they continuously calculate position based on 12 satellites at the same time.

iPhones, and I would guess smart phones in general, use something called Assisted GPS. When you are in an area that has cell reception, the cell towers assist in giving position. But in an area without cell towers, you phone uses an internal GPS. You can download apps to look at this data. This will show up typically as a circular grid with each in view satellite listed and sometimes what the signal strength is. If smart phones did not have GPS chips installed, GAIA, OnX and other would now work.

I have preformed comparisons with stand alone GPS units (including professional and very expensive ones I used to use) to iPhones and the iphone has a very impressive GPS in it. I would say that with a fairly decent skyview, you would get a <5 meter accuracy. Not bad considering it has a small internal antenna.

For GPS, the antenna is a very important thing. I tend to use stand alone GPS unit that either have a visible antenna, like a little bump or rod sticking out, or at least the ability to connect an external antenna.

As for why your smart phone is not receiving GPS, I wonder if your privacy setting are not allowing the app to communicate with the GPS. Which app are you using.
 

axlesandantennas

Approved Vendor
Was looking at getting a Garmin GPS/messenger.

It seems when I am hiking, where I am going I get nothing on my phone for GPS.

Will a Garmin have the same problem or do they get better reception?

Do some have better GPS reception than others? Say inreachmini vs montana700i

Thanks
One other thing I will say about Garmin GPS in general is that they are very sensitive without being overly so. What I mean by that they are very reliable in receiving a GPS signal from 12,500 miles above the earth, but they don't get confused with bad signals, which in turn would give you a false reading. I've been using Garmin units since 1996 and have never had one that would not give a correct position to within 100 meters (for the older ones, pre-2000). You cannot go wrong with a Garmin.

Keep in mind that the inReach units utilize two different satellite systems to accomplish the task they were designed for. The GPS part uses GPS signals from satellites at an orbit of around 12,000 miles. This is receive only, as in, the GPS is passive. You do not send any signal at all to a GPS satellite. I point this out as it is a common mistake people make.

In actuality, the inReach two way communication portion of the inReaches use the Iridium system of satellites to provide two way communication. They are around 400 miles in orbit. It's a bit nuanced, but it means a whole lot.
 
Last edited:

Blowby

Member
I am able to use my iphone with the Gaiai app on Airplane mode for many hours out on the trails with no cell service.I also use a Garmin Mini as a tracker so that my wife can follow me and also message me if needed.
 

Rando

Explorer
This is almost entirely incorrect.

Modern GPS use at a minimum 3 GPS satellites to get a Lat/Long fix, called 2D. It needs 4 to get a 3D fix, which gives altitude as well. However, most modern receivers are 12 channel, which means they continuously calculate position based on 12 satellites at the same time.

iPhones, and I would guess smart phones in general, use something called Assisted GPS. When you are in an area that has cell reception, the cell towers assist in giving position. But in an area without cell towers, you phone uses an internal GPS. You can download apps to look at this data. This will show up typically as a circular grid with each in view satellite listed and sometimes what the signal strength is. If smart phones did not have GPS chips installed, GAIA, OnX and other would now work.

I have preformed comparisons with stand alone GPS units (including professional and very expensive ones I used to use) to iPhones and the iphone has a very impressive GPS in it. I would say that with a fairly decent skyview, you would get a <5 meter accuracy. Not bad considering it has a small internal antenna.

For GPS, the antenna is a very important thing. I tend to use stand alone GPS unit that either have a visible antenna, like a little bump or rod sticking out, or at least the ability to connect an external antenna.

As for why your smart phone is not receiving GPS, I wonder if your privacy setting are not allowing the app to communicate with the GPS. Which app are you using.

Good info - but one slight addition, most modern receivers are far more than 12 channels (eg Ublox M8 is 72 channels), and will simultaneously receive GPS, GLONASS, BeiDou, and Galileo.
 

axlesandantennas

Approved Vendor
Good info - but one slight addition, most modern receivers are far more than 12 channels (eg Ublox M8 is 72 channels), and will simultaneously receive GPS, GLONASS, BeiDou, and Galileo.
Yep. And it’s very impressive. I like the fact that you turn off reception of some of those systems as well.

and here is something neat, Garmin has come out with a add on antenna/receiver that attaches to some of the boating units. Supposed to increase access to one meter or better. Unreal! Not that long ago we would have had to pay 1000s for that and it was not really available as a live system. This Garmin setup can be had for about a grand. Amazing.
 

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