Why aren't more tacoma owners up in arms about their trucks?

toylandcruiser

Expedition Leader
Yah there are some good ones in there...
  1. " I don’t think you did anything wrong and that’s a serious issue which makes me not want to go Toyota again"
  2. "2nd Gen > 3rd Gen"
  3. I looked to Toyota for my 1st pick up purchase. Not overly impressed.
  4. The 3rd gen just LOOKS cheap. Now I know it's mechanically crap too. Unless Toyota returns to it's former quality, I may as well buy a Chevy....


I'm not sure why y'all are dogging on me ... it's as if you don't want to hold Toyota accountable in the same way other off-road brands are held accountable. It's clear you believe something is wrong with me, because I'm pointing out Toyota doesn't publish the wading depth for their "off road" truck, for example. Or like, somehow the thing I've documented with photos and video didn't happen...

A critique on Toyota is an attack on the very core of your identity.

It's interesting - but I think it's time for me to sign off on this forum. I don't think there's much more I can do in a room full of Toyota fanboys other than telling my story as accurately as possible, which I've done.
Nice how you ignored the ones that said. This is my truck. Lots of other vehicles do this.
Oh and the one where he said I’ve wheeled mine hard ran it in water uo to headlights no issues

And so on
 

NitroExpress

Observer
I don't question that you climbed a hill and had a problem. I don't question that Toyota does not publish the fording depth. Those are valid complaints, and if you can change the off-road world by forcing Toyota to improve, more power to you. If you are successful, I've got some things for you to address with Ford ;)!

What you still keep failing to address after 6 pages is:

1) Your statement - "...(Tacoma) can hydrolock after going throw shallow water..."
- Why do you keep saying this? You didn't have this problem. Do you know a bunch a people that went through "a few inches of water" and hydrolocked their motor? Again, I don't view my factory airbox as being in an unreasonable position to ingest water. I'm trying to stop short of giving a bunch of anecdotal evidence, but I cross a creek on my ranch as part of normal operations a lot. It's been running above center-of-hub deep lately, certainly more that the "couple inches" stated. I've had no ill effects (so far...).

2) Was it the dealer or Toyota corporate that tried the warranty denial BS with you? This makes a big difference in your perspective. Whats the answer? My perception at this point is the dealer denied based on typical dealer ineptitude. 99.99% of service writers that I have encountered are not knowledgeable about vehicles in general, and certainly anything that doesn't involve pavement. Hell, I had a 5 tire rotation denied under "Toyota Care", which then automatically denied the brake inspection.
 

Dalko43

Explorer
I switched from Land Rover (owned everything from a Defender to LR2) last year and bought a new 2018 Tacoma Off-road. I've since learned that Tacomas have:
  1. oil lubrication issues when ascending hills that lead to low oil pressure / engine burning oil / even a thrown rod
  2. can hydrolock after going throw shallow water & toyota doesn't publish spec "fording depths" like Jeep & Land Rover
These seem like big issues - the first led to me blowing the engine in my Taco...I'm pretty surprised there isn't more online about them. I wish I knew about them before buying my truck. Is this just a fluke? Or do Taco owners not ford water / ascend steep hills? How does Toyota get away with branding a truck "off road" but not publishing an acceptable fording depth?

I'm hoping this won't turn into a flame-fest...but I'm sure it will. I'm honestly just very confused and frustrated...so frustrated I've put my story online (neverbuyatacomaoffroad.com). I'm hoping others will learn from my mistake. I don't know what else to do. If I keep the truck I'll buy a snorkel of course, but that won't fix issue #1.
1) I've heard of oiling issues with the 3G Tacoma's 3.5l v6, but the relevant question is: How common are they? If a few, or even a few dozen people, have had issues out of the hundreds of thousands of owners, they might make a racket on the Toyota forums and facebook pages, but is it really a widespread issue?

2) Hydrolock can occur with any vehicle....in fact, there are plenty of examples of Jeeps getting hydrolocked and destroying their engines, despite FCA's published fording depth. Two solutions: a) don't drive through water very fast (that's a basic rule which everyone should know at this point) and b) get a snorkel if you plan on fording deep water on a regular basis. Other people have put their 3G Tacoma's through deep water without any issue. If your or someone else hydrolocked a Tacoma going through water, it was likely due to operator error.

As for some of the commenters bringing up frame rust...why? That hasn't been an issue on Tacoma's since about 10 years ago. Moreover Toyota replaced all the affected frames, free of charge...it was a f%^k up on their part, but they ultimately did the right thing by fixing the problem.
 

lugueto

Adventurer
I think you are getting dogged because some think there is more to the story than is being told. I know I do.

But the answer is in the reply above, if there are this many cases, then a lawsuit would solve the problem.
It seems as some folks know there's more to the story than there's being told. Also the messages feel like the OP is simply starting an argument just because, and it seems as he's done it before. I don't really know but reading the thread is what I understand is being transmitted.

If he was hoping not to turn this into a flamefest, then he shouldn't have posted he posted some link called www.neverbuyatacomaoffroad.com or start an argument stating that LR is clearly superior than Toyota. Not because it is, or isnt, but because it opens the door to subjective arguments.

In any case, the OP is condemning over a very rare case of oil starvation based on extreme angles. I haven't read anything of the sort anywhere. I don't believe this is a common issue at all.

The fording depth information thing is nitpicking at best. I have seen Tacomas go through somewhat deep water without snorkels without being damaged. Maybe 3' at the deepest and 100' long. Despite knowing the risk, off course, but they HAVE NOT become hydrolocked. Common sense dictates that if you're going to do such water crossings, you should make sure your vehicle can handle it or modify it appropriately. Raised diff breathers and snorkels are imperative. All our vehicles are.
 

DaveInDenver

Expedition Leader
Currently Toyota is covering up to 2005-2010 Tacoma (also 2007-2008 Tundra and 2005-2008 Sequoia) for frame corrosion under the terms of their class action lawsuit settlement.

There have been rumors of a Limited Service Campaign (a LSC number is said to be K0D) for 2011 to 2015 trucks but since my 2008 is only covered by the in-service date + 12 years LSC I won't get a notice of anything from Toyota. But if I had a 2011+ I'd keep an eye out for the hoops you have to go through. To be covered Toyota sometimes requires a record in their owner's database that you have gone in for frame inspections when they said you had to.

Bear in mind that Toyota said frame rot only affected 1995 to 2000 trucks. Later they said it was also 2001-2004. Then they said 2005-2008. Now they say 2009 and 2010, too.

The original blame was placed on Dana in Mexico, who made frames that lacked frame corrosion treatments I believe. Toyota eventually said they switched suppliers, which was to Metalsa. That's the company Dana sold their structural components division to in 2009. But it's the same physical plant making the frames as a subcontractor to Toyota. So the latest inclusion under the class action suit for 2009 and 2010 would have presumably been made there.
 
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downhill

Adventurer
I for one am thankful for the OPs effort to make this a topic of discussion. I've put a ton of money and work into my 2nd gen Tacoma to make it offroad worthy. I do believe that all the TRD OFFROAD stuff is nonsense designed for marketing to urban buyers looking for an image. There is very little actual capability built in. You are better off getting a base SR5, and renting a dumpster to haul off all the suspension, and other junk that needs to go. I was not aware of the oil pressure issue, but I have recently installed a pressure gauge. I'll be watching that closely. I haven't climbed many really steep ascents, but I have climbed Hollister. I'm mostly happy with my Tacoma now, but I've stripped off every Toyota marking. They don't deserve any credit for what I own now. I have addressed the intake issue too, but these trucks will never be great water forders. There are too many other vulnerabilities. The Gen 3 has improved in some ways, but degraded in others. Shrinking the motor was the end of the line for me. For the cost, I would never buy one. At this point my best bet is to keep my 2007 on the road at any cost. I have a good friend who still drives a 1978 F250 that he has owned since 1978. That truck has seen countless hard trail miles. Lots of upgrades along the way, but in the end I think he is well ahead of all of us.

This is just a little side note that I came across. I was looking at an add recently for one of those little Suzuki mini trucks from Japan. 3 cylinder engine, 60 HP, and it still has a load capacity of 1000 lbs. Sometimes I wonder if these numbers mean anything at all.
 

DaveInDenver

Expedition Leader
I do believe that all the TRD OFFROAD stuff is nonsense designed for marketing to urban buyers looking for an image. There is very little actual capability built in.
So a locker doesn't add capability? I don't have much first hand comparison but I'm led to believe that people can tell the difference in SR5 and TRD Sport and TRD Offroad suspension. Not that Tacomaworld is a bellwether but one of the complaints about the OR is it tends to wallow on the road, which they attribute (at least in their minds) to the softer progressive springs and less damped Bilsteins. I bought my Taco used and the suspension on it was just like the stock suspension on my 1991 before it - soft. But I can't imagine any vehicle sold to an enthusiast will ever be right anyway.
 

toylandcruiser

Expedition Leader
Currently Toyota is covering up to 2005-2010 Tacoma (also 2007-2008 Tundra and 2005-2008 Sequoia) for frame corrosion under the terms of their class action lawsuit settlement.

There have been rumors of a Limited Service Campaign (a LSC number is said to be K0D) for 2011 to 2015 trucks but since my 2008 is only covered by the in-service date + 12 years LSC I won't get a notice of anything from Toyota. But if I had a 2011+ I'd keep an eye out for the hoops you have to go through. To be covered Toyota sometimes requires a record in their owner's database that you have gone in for frame inspections when they said you had to.

Bear in mind that Toyota said frame rot only affected 1995 to 2000 trucks. Later they said it was also 2001-2004. Then they said 2005-2008. Now they say 2009 and 2010, too.

The original blame was placed on Dana in Mexico, who made frames that lacked frame corrosion treatments I believe. Toyota eventually said they switched suppliers, which was to Metalsa. That's the company Dana sold their structural components division to in 2009. But it's the same physical plant making the frames as a subcontractor to Toyota. So the latest inclusion under the class action suit for 2009 and 2010 would have presumably been made there.
Believe it or not all manufacturers have rust issues. Toyota is the only one to step up and do something.
I’m sure it a big conspiracy Toyota is covering up. Just like the throttle acceleration that turned out to be nothing. But Toyota was fiend multi billions of dollars. Yet new about the ignition issue and did nothing to fix it.
 

toylandcruiser

Expedition Leader
I for one am thankful for the OPs effort to make this a topic of discussion. I've put a ton of money and work into my 2nd gen Tacoma to make it offroad worthy. I do believe that all the TRD OFFROAD stuff is nonsense designed for marketing to urban buyers looking for an image. There is very little actual capability built in. You are better off getting a base SR5, and renting a dumpster to haul off all the suspension, and other junk that needs to go. I was not aware of the oil pressure issue, but I have recently installed a pressure gauge. I'll be watching that closely. I haven't climbed many really steep ascents, but I have climbed Hollister. I'm mostly happy with my Tacoma now, but I've stripped off every Toyota marking. They don't deserve any credit for what I own now. I have addressed the intake issue too, but these trucks will never be great water forders. There are too many other vulnerabilities. The Gen 3 has improved in some ways, but degraded in others. Shrinking the motor was the end of the line for me. For the cost, I would never buy one. At this point my best bet is to keep my 2007 on the road at any cost. I have a good friend who still drives a 1978 F250 that he has owned since 1978. That truck has seen countless hard trail miles. Lots of upgrades along the way, but in the end I think he is well ahead of all of us.

This is just a little side note that I came across. I was looking at an add recently for one of those little Suzuki mini trucks from Japan. 3 cylinder engine, 60 HP, and it still has a load capacity of 1000 lbs. Sometimes I wonder if these numbers mean anything at all.
That 78 Ford is the exception not the reality. Very few of those trucks are being used on a daily basis. Older trucks are not stronger than newer trucks.
 

DaveInDenver

Expedition Leader
Believe it or not all manufacturers have rust issues. Toyota is the only one to step up and do something.
I’m sure it a big conspiracy Toyota is covering up. Just like the throttle acceleration that turned out to be nothing. But Toyota was fiend multi billions of dollars. Yet new about the ignition issue and did nothing to fix it.
I don't think it's a conspiracy. I just think Toyota is cutting corners in more places now. They could have solved the frame issue. They only started putting frame plugs in on 3rd gens and I had to put them on myself on my 2nd gen because it not retrofitted during inspection and only come when you get a new frame.

They still have the gapping hold through the cab mount behind the front wheels that gives debris and road spray a direct path into the boxed section of the frame next to the catalytic converter and no way to clean or drain it, which is where the majority of perforations occur.

They could have fixed that on the 3rd gen but they didn't, so no, I don't they are serious about fixing a design flaw.
 

toylandcruiser

Expedition Leader
I don't think it's a conspiracy. I just think Toyota is cutting corners in more places now. They could have solved the frame issue. They only started putting frame plugs in on 3rd gens and I had to put them on myself on my 2nd gen because it not retrofitted during inspection and only come when you get a new frame.

They still have the gapping hold through the cab mount behind the front wheels that gives debris and road spray a direct path into the boxed section of the frame next to the catalytic converter and no way to clean or drain it, which is where the majority of perforations occur.

They could have fixed that on the 3rd gen but they didn't, so no, I don't they are serious about fixing a design flaw.
Once again all manufacturers have rust issues. All of them. Just saw a newer 2010ish ram 2500 yesterday full of rust. The wheel wells were all bubbled and frame rusting. But only Toyota has issues. When’s the last time you’ve seen an old hilux running around. They have rust as well. Hell I live in Nevada and there is an 83 or so hilux that’s rusted. I live in the driest state. Rust is an issue with metal. It happens. But to claim that only Toyota has issues is naive.
 

DaveInDenver

Expedition Leader
Once again all manufacturers have rust issues. All of them. Just saw a newer 2010ish ram 2500 yesterday full of rust. The wheel wells were all bubbled and frame rusting. But only Toyota has issues. When’s the last time you’ve seen an old hilux running around. They have rust as well. Hell I live in Nevada and there is an 83 or so hilux that’s rusted. I live in the driest state. Rust is an issue with metal. It happens. But to claim that only Toyota has issues is naive.
Rust is inevitable but to say it just happens is a cop-out. I thought the reason we bought Toyotas was they weren't just like all the others? They used to be really bad, then Toyota improved and they were better. But they seemed to be getting worse.

I acknowledge the reality but I can sympathize with the theme here of being disappointed. I specifically skipped a 1st gen because they had rust issues (and yes, no one else replaced or repaired rusty trucks to Toyota's credit) believing they had pinpointed the problem and fixed it. They didn't and I don't think they have. I'm a fanboy but at this point I also am failing to see the point of paying the premium for trucks that really aren't any better than anything else.

Knowing now what I wish I did then I would not have sold my 1991 but c'est la vie. It had rust but I didn't have to clean and paint the frame every year like I am on this Tacoma. It's cheaper, the steel poorer, the paint thinner. There are ways to mitigate rust by design.

Both trucks are Colorado trucks for every mile and I am the second owner of both. The use case is the same, same driver, same maintenance. It's not purely scientific and yup, it's anecdotal.

Oh, and I even welded sliders to the 1991 frame and it was rusting slower than my Tacoma is now. Every spring I get bubbles on the frame, so I clean, paint and Fluid Film.
 
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vintageracer

To Infinity and Beyond!
The commercials show these rigs driving through water all the time, but one should never ignore the fine print -- "professional driver, closed course, do not attempt" -- in other words, I don't think they care about wrecking a few $40,000 trucks for some advertisement images that will sell them hundreds of thousands of the same truck.

Press trucks, show trucks, test trucks, ad trucks and many vehicles are sold by OEM's at wholesale auctions across the country. In particular Manheim Detroit see's LOT'S of test vehicles, press vehicles and ad vehicles sold at auction by the Big 3. Most if not ALL of them are sold AS IS with NO Warranty along with an acknowledgement that the buyer understands and accepts the previous use history of the vehicle. These vehicles sell at a much cheaper price than market value however that's still way above scrap value. These vehicles end up on used dealer lot's for sale with the now selling dealer having the responsibility of providing this previous use information to their customer's and the fact that the vehicle most likely with have NO Warranty and NO manufacturer liability.

In today's world the OEM's are not going to scrap these type of vehicles when they are serviceable vehicles that can be sold AS IS. They can sell em for "Much Mo Money" than scrap all while still absolving themselves of warranty and liability issues for these vehicles by selling them wholesale and As Is!
 
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battleaxe

Captain Obvious
You said your Tacoma rides like a Camry and I responded. Just because something rides nice doesn’t make it less of a truck.
Yes... To be honest, I don't really know where I was going with that...


Good luck with the Off-Road stickers though. They look ************ on the highway y'all.

View attachment 517990
First you're ADAMANT that you spent 40k on the offroad package... And now you're waving the sticker around like a badge of honor?

Honestly... If you bought the TRD Offroad expecting it was somehow MORE than any other Tacoma, I don't even feel bad for you...

(This comment has nothing to do with you grenading your engine... I really feel for you, it sucks. Not saying I agree with you, but acknowledging that it sucks)

Overall though, looking through a few of your links... I feel that you're cherry picking a ton of stuff to fit your narrative.
  • A hydrolocked 1GR from a 2nd gen has no relevance to a 3rd gen oil starvation issue (from 8 years ago no less...)
  • A hydrolocked third gen with no evidence... Just "I hydrolocked my engine"
  • A hydrolocked 3.4 from 9 years ago?

You could very well be on to something... But I've had my '16 up and down some pretty stupid inclines, and never had a light or an issue.
 
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