Why are other full size SUV's not used in overlanding/offroading as often as Forerunner/Landcruiser?

[tdferrero]

I always wonder why Toyota Lemmings have to bring up what they’re doing in 3rd world countries. Should we also start using their plumbing systems? Cinder blocks instead of lumber for home construction?

Whatever....

Obviously, the domestic makers decided to gear the SUV’s more towards road friendly vehicles, as apparent by the suspension design (IRS), lack of a xfer case, etc. So the truck platform is much more comparable to the Toyota counterparts.

If I were shopping for a large Offroad capable SUV, LC would be it. No domestic SUVs even come close. Maybe a G-wag would be the next closest thing but even that’s a far off comparison. Or perhaps the Infiniti/Nissan Armada. Those are watered down, too.

Truck, no question it’d be a 3/4 or 1 ton. No Toyota comes close.

Overall, if size weren’t an issue, I’d take a Powerwagon or a new Tremor over an LC. More robust, HD, can actually haul decently, and I just like the truck platform for dirtschlepping.

Calling you out again on the payload. I’ve never seen a 4Runner or GX with a 1,500lb payload. Since you have one, post a picture of your door sticker. You’ll be closer to 1k lbs. And even IF it were comparable to a 1/2 ton truck, it would not carry the weight as well with the short wheelbase.
Just facts.

Perhaps the "lemmings" bring up the rest of the world due to the fact, and it's a bit of a wild thought here but bear with me, not everyone lives in America.

 

[Deleted member 9101]

My old 4.7 LC sucked at towing even moderate loads. Zero power up hills. Although it was the old 4-sp. But couldn’t believe how it struggled towing 3-4K lbs.

I had the 4.7 in a 2002 Tundra. Great motor for moving the truck, not so great of motor for towing a trailer.

 

[calicamper]

I had the 4.7 in a 2002 Tundra. Great motor for moving the truck, not so great of motor for towing a trailer.

Same here which is why my trailer was never more than 1500 lbs lol

 

[phsycle]

Perhaps the "lemmings" bring up the rest of the world due to the fact, and it's a bit of a wild thought here but bear with me, not everyone lives in America.

I think you’re missing the point. I was pointing out the inappropriate comparisons being made between a NA product vs others. Apples to oranges.

 

[Deleted member 9101]

Same here which is why my trailer was never more than 1500 lbs lol

I had a Honda 919, on a Harbor Freight trailer behind my Tundra and was headed to Creede CO. On flat ground it was ok...once I started climbing in elevation the truck became a complete dog...lol.

 

[Deleted member 9101]

I think you’re missing the point. I was pointing out the inappropriate comparisons being made between a NA product vs others. Apples to oranges.

Exactly!! What makes a truck work well in South Africa might be a down fall here in the States.

 

[Cruisn]

Exactly!! What makes a truck work well in South Africa might be a down fall here in the States.

I can tell you that if you drove a landcruiser 79 here then a dodge truck you would never want a cruiser again. they are rough. so rough.

 

[vintageracer]

Perhaps the "lemmings" bring up the rest of the world due to the fact, and it's a bit of a wild thought here but bear with me, not everyone lives in America.

That may be true but who the Hell cares!

 

[Kaisen]

We got off topic after 12 pages (it happens)

Why do you see more 4Runners and Land Cruisers?


First, you see a disproportionate number of LC80s out there because they have a solid front axle and decades of both aftermarket support, and legends. The early 90s were undeniably the zenith of the Toyota quality delta over other brands. But how many LC200s do you see out there? Not many. Not many at all.

Americans like full size pickup trucks. It has by far and away been our best selling vehicle. Other places in the world? Can't even buy one. Can you buy a Super Duty or Ram HD in Morocco? Mogadishu? Australia? No (although, yes, I realize Ram made it to Aus recently).

So combine those two factors, then realize that American "overlanders" have an infatuation with the exotic expedition journeys we saw chronicled in the media over the years. And those adventures through deserts, rainforests, rock strewn paths largely occurred in countries where you couldn't buy a Chevrolet, or Ford, or GM full size truck or SUV. So what you saw in that grainy footage were 4x4 vehicles common to the region... typically Land Cruisers or Land Rovers, even "ute" versions that were the local substitute for what we'd buy in pickup form. Those rigs were kitted out with aftermarket gear from legendary names like "Old Man Emu" and "ARB" because that was what was available locally. Now that it's popular here, we want to emulate and reproduce that cool and exotic stuff that we glamourize. Everything is cooler when it wasn't common here.

Back in the states, we did have easy access to big pickups, Jeeps, and SUVs. Look at 4x4 magazines from the 70s- 90s and it's clear that everyone in the US made it down all the same trails we do today, they just did them in CJs, Cherokees, K5 Blazers, Broncos, and other popular US 4x4s.

Today? The quality delta has shrunk to near zero, particularly within their class. When Toyota sells 3,500 Land Cruisers in the US, do you think you'll see many broke down on the roads or trails? Do you think you'll hear about them on social media? Compare that to nearly a million F-series trucks, or GM full size trucks/SUVs. If a problem is one in 10,000 you'll literally never get to hear about a Land Cruiser with the issue. Or barely even a Tundra. But when you sell 10x as many F-series or GM, you'll hear about it... especially over time. For example, the Super Duty was relatively unchanged from 1999-2016. They made almost 10 million of them in that time. Think you'll hear about the trends in problems? Yep, even if 0.1% had them and 99.9% didn't, social media makes it seem like they all did. We all know of ragged out beat up pickup trucks with 300-500K miles on the clock and still running around. There's a lot more involved with the demographics and psychographics of the owners of a Super Duty versus, say, the owners of a Tundra. And it reflects in how they are taken care of, invested in, kept, and repaired. It's a self fulfilling prophecy in many ways.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

It really is more than just marketing.

As one example:
The 4runner/GX460 is a body-on-frame SUV w/ 1.5k lbs of payload (similar to many 1/4 tons) and built on the LandCruiser Prado chassis...a SUV that gets overloaded and overworked in far more arduous conditions than what the typical family hauler SUV or pickup experiences here in North America. Other than the Jeep Wrangler, which is really designed and marketed more as a weekend toy more than anything else, no one makes anything comparable in North America.

Similar concept for the LandCruiser 200 and LX570...arguably a little bit dated at this point, but they are extremely overbuilt SUV's designed for leading long working lives in 3rd world countries. Yes Toyota has a marketing campaign related to these SUV's, but then again so do the North American OEM's with their bread-and-butter 1/2 tons. Compare the level of engineering that goes into a GM suburban or Ford Expedition to what goes into a LC 200...they're both BOF SUV's with solid rear axles, but there is huge difference in design philosophy and intended usage. You sit behind a GM or Ford SUV and you see all the loose brake and fluid lines and the low-hanging shock mounts...it's obvious that there was a different design philosophy for those vehicles compared to something like a LC 200.

So at least part of the reason that Toyota SUV's have more an overland following and aftermarket support is because throughout the rest of the world, they are in fact heavily used for such applications. That same can't be said for the North American SUV's (Expedition, Suburban, ect.).

Fixed it for you.

When introduced in 1983 the Ranger had a payload rating varying from 1200 to 1600lbs. The new Ranger is 1560 to 1860 depending on cab and drive options.

Nothing particularly awesome about any of them, that is four large guys (4x250) plus gas plus a little gear. Nothing really to ooo and awe over. The F-150 is crowding 2.4k at the max with an aluminum body and the ever popular 2wd std cab longbox combo... so in other words they are all about the same for all intents and purposes.

Expedition hasn't had a solid axle since 2002 BTW.

 

[Kaisen]

It really is more than just marketing.

As one example:
The 4runner/GX460 is a body-on-frame SUV w/ 1.5k lbs of payload (similar to many 1/2 tons) and built on the LandCruiser Prado chassis...a SUV that gets overloaded and overworked in far more arduous conditions than what the typical family hauler SUV or pickup experiences here in North America. Other than the Jeep Wrangler, which is really designed and marketed more as a weekend toy more than anything else, no one makes anything comparable in North America.

Similar concept for the LandCruiser 200 and LX570...arguably a little bit dated at this point, but they are extremely overbuilt SUV's designed for leading long working lives in 3rd world countries. Yes Toyota has a marketing campaign related to these SUV's, but then again so do the North American OEM's with their bread-and-butter 1/2 tons. Compare the level of engineering that goes into a GM suburban or Ford Expedition to what goes into a LC 200...they're both BOF SUV's with solid rear axles, but there is huge difference in design philosophy and intended usage. You sit behind a GM or Ford SUV and you see all the loose brake and fluid lines and the low-hanging shock mounts...it's obvious that there was a different design philosophy for those vehicles compared to something like a LC 200

Yes, please school us on all the hard overland use the $85,000 Land Cruiser is bound to see in harsh environments all over the world, and how the rear packaging is any different. Some people drink Toyota Kool Aid like it was water

 

[Kaisen]

Compared to this amazing example of third world workhorse that can endure the punishment of harsh environments from sub-Saharan Africa to the tundras of Antarctica. What amazing off road packaging!

 

[Toyaddict]

Brand loyalty aside if you haven't noticed the stuff dangling off the frame and differential of some GM products I don't know what to tell you.

Maybe they've gotten better but an Envoy or 1st gen Colorado had some parts not tucked high enough for my liking. If ALL fanboys weren't so blinded by brand bias these threads would be more fruitful

 

[Cruisn]

I'll chime in again, you dont see 200 series, or prados very often, let alone tacoma or tundra which are us based only anywhere 3rd world. you see crusiers, proper cruisers. 76,78, and 79 series. you see the odd 200 series, you know who is driving it? the corrupt government officials for status.
Im pretty evenly biased I figure as I own only mitsubishis. but operate toyotas and such in DRC, there tough, but god damn im 2" shorter cause of it.

I will add that brake line is in a ******** spot on the photo... jsut asking for issues.

 

[Buliwyf]

That's just the parking brake. Not exactly a mission critical part.