Who's lining up to buy a 2023 Sequoia and NOT a 2022 Tundra?

nickw

Adventurer
I am a self proclaimed Cruiser head, I've owned a 40, 60, 80, and now two 200's and I am very active over on Ih8Mud. I test drove a very nicely built, completely restored 78 Series Troopy a few years back with every intention of purchasing that vehicle. After spending an afternoon and evening checking it over, talking with the guy who did the work (very reputable shop) and then a rather lengthy test drive on the highway at freeway speeds, down city streets, through neighborhoods and even along a gravel road, I decided that it wasn't for me.

There was simply no way I was going to ever enjoy traveling beyond 100-150 miles per day in the thing and I'd prefer to never have to go more than 50-60 mph in it and it takes a full 30 seconds to get up to those sustained speeds lol. It was brutally slow, noisy, rough, barely handled better than my 40 Series and just too much of an industrial tractor all around for the type of travel I intended to do with it. If I were in the outback full time, lived out west in the desert, or in the backwoods along the east coast and I had weeks to travel without a time constraint then I could see it being a valid option. But if you're like most of us and have a 3-7 days at a time to squeeze in a trip between work then it's just not going to work if you have to cover 500-1000 miles each way just to get to the areas you want to explore. If time and money were of no issue then I'd certainly have one in the garage simply for nostalgia and collectors sake, but given my needs, desires and available time, it simply doesn't fit within that mold.
Spot on - I think you are the guy Toyota is looking at and coming up with the same conclusion -> minimal market in the US. You seem to have the disposable income, enjoyment for the hobby and are a passionate cruiser head.....but even then, they just don't make a lot of sense when you have modern rigs.
 

calicamper

Expedition Leader
For sure badly needed as I sit here vacuuming out my Expedition which replaced my Sequoia. 2019 Toyota had absolutely nothing worth looking at for a new purchase. Used yes! New no!!

I love the Expedition awesome rig! Especially my HD fully loaded one. All stuff that I hated about my Sequoia don’t exist with the Expedition.

If this new Sequoia was available in 2019? I would have at least gone to a Toyota dealer and looked. 😆

All new Sequoia was So badly needed!!!! However the dealers will all be bending buyers over the Finance office desk… So unless your either a lottery jack pot winner or have no financial wits lots of people won’t be buying them due to dealer price gouging.
 

T-Willy

Well-known member
Not Me, I am now leaning Tundra.

I was hoping to upgrade my current Sequoia, but not likely now. Why?

1) The hybrid motor which is not a hybrid motor. Too much weight and too many failure points and design changes for so little horsepower. I am fine with the HP on the 5.7, I just would have liked better mpg in the form turbo6 without the electric motor like you can get on the Tundra. A true hybrid would have been awesome but this is useless.

2) I do not have 4/5/6 kids (and neither does 86% of America). No need for a 3rd row. What I do need is cargo space and room for my dog. So unless there is 3rd row delete, this does not work. That goofy raised floor and inability to lie flat shows they gave little thought to what a typical American family needs.

So I am now leaning Tundra without iForce Max, and a bed if needed to keep cargo dry.

Whoever thought this was acceptable should have been fired:

View attachment 704230
Surely the third row can be removed, no? Unbolted if not unlatched and removed...
 

sn_85

Observer
I think this sequoia is exactly why we aren’t getting the new LC300 in N. America. Enthusiasts will always prefer the badge to say Land Cruiser but on paper they are going to be very very similar.
I asked it in the LC thread, but does anybody know if the locker is optional on all trims or just the TRD pro?
The locker and MTS should be available on trims with the optional TRD Off Road package
 

calicamper

Expedition Leader
I just can't understand why they didn't offer the fold flat into the floor third row like the 300 has which is very similar to how the GX460 does it. I get that they probably could offer thicker foam padding which is more comfortable than the slimmer seats in the true fold flat setups, but that won't be an ideal layout for those cross shopping this with literally every other full-size three-row SUV. The third row seat sliding capability probably factored into the design as well but I would have taken a better fold flat scenario over sliding adjustability, after-all, I couldn't care less about leg room for anyone that I'd stick back there lol. The Cruiser will always have the more ideal wheel base for off-road use as well but the Sequoia is by far the better people hauler and it looks to be twice as good as the last Gen in regards to off-road capability.
Even as a 3rd row user I haul kids to vball practice and tournaments 2-3 days a week. The fold in floor 3rd row eats up about 8 inches of floor to roof height in the rear cargo area. Vs the old removable 3rd row you have a considerably larger rear gate opening and floor to roof height. Its the one thing I didn’t like moving to a in floor 3rd row SUV. Vs my old Sequoia

Outside of that I like my expedition and its my favorite SUV after 4runner, J80 and Sequoia ownership. The Expedition is quick, can post great mileage, has a rear locker😳, better comfort for the passenger ie fully adjustable and massage seats etc.

So really the new Sequoia was pretty much a must or Toyota needed to just quit making it.
 
Last edited:

sn_85

Observer
I like the 2023 Sequoia and I think it addresses a lot wants people had in a full size Toyota SUV but I don't think it replaces a Land Cruiser. In many ways I don't think the 300 LC replaces the 200 LC either. From videos I've seen the 300 series LC has worse articulation than a 200 LC. There are similarities between the new Sequoia and the 300 LC but I don't think it's as simple as having a solid rear axle and the same engine. Did anyone ever think the first gen Sequoia with it's solid rear axle and 2UZ-FE engine was a Land Cruiser 100 replacement? No, not even in the same boat. Yes it's nice that the new Sequoia has a solid rear axle and optional rear locker but I've also seen a 200 series Land Cruiser without a locker make it up obstacles much easier than a locked 5th gen 4Runner.

In the case of the Land Cruiser, the wheel base of 112" matters which the 300 LC retains. I think the LC has had a 112" wheel base since the 80 series and they have figured that this is optimal for many reasons. Articulation has always been an advantage with the Land Cruiser with KDSS and it has always scored very high on RTI tests, even more than a JT Rubicon (check out Dan Edmunds RTI test). Yeah I've seen the new Sequoia TRD Pro pictures. It looks like it has terrible approach and departure angles and the ground clearance looks meh. As mentioned before, articulation in the new TNGA-F vehicles has been worse than the previous vehicles. The aftermarket will need to address those shortcomings. I think Toyota made a big miss on the Sequoia with a part time 4WD system. Lets be real, the Sequoia is going to shuttle a lot of moms and kids around and I'd feel far more reassured with my wife and kids (non yet) in a vehicle with Full-Time 4WD than a part time system. Something the Land Cruiser has had since the 80 series. As well I'd be interested to see how much they share in terms of suspension, differentials and what the wheelbase is. The Sequoia is closer to a Land Cruiser than ever before and I think it addressed a lot of shortcomings and wants but I'm not ready to say it will replace it until we get further details.
 

calicamper

Expedition Leader
I like the 2023 Sequoia and I think it addresses a lot wants people had in a full size Toyota SUV but I don't think it replaces a Land Cruiser. In many ways I don't think the 300 LC replaces the 200 LC either. From videos I've seen the 300 series LC has worse articulation than a 200 LC. There are similarities between the new Sequoia and the 300 LC but I don't think it's as simple as having a solid rear axle and the same engine. Did anyone ever think the first gen Sequoia with it's solid rear axle and 2UZ-FE engine was a Land Cruiser 100 replacement? No, not even in the same boat. Yes it's nice that the new Sequoia has a solid rear axle and optional rear locker but I've also seen a 200 series Land Cruiser without a locker make it up obstacles much easier than a locked 5th gen 4Runner.

In the case of the Land Cruiser, the wheel base of 112" matters which the 300 LC retains. I think the LC has had a 112" wheel base since the 80 series and they have figured that this is optimal for many reasons. Articulation has always been an advantage with the Land Cruiser with KDSS and it has always scored very high on RTI tests, even more than a JT Rubicon (check out Dan Edmunds RTI test). Yeah I've seen the new Sequoia TRD Pro pictures. It looks like it has terrible approach and departure angles and the ground clearance looks meh. As mentioned before, articulation in the new TNGA-F vehicles has been worse than the previous vehicles. The aftermarket will need to address those shortcomings. I think Toyota made a big miss on the Sequoia with a part time 4WD system. Lets be real, the Sequoia is going to shuttle a lot of moms and kids around and I'd feel far more reassured with my wife and kids (non yet) in a vehicle with Full-Time 4WD than a part time system. Something the Land Cruiser has had since the 80 series. As well I'd be interested to see how much they share in terms of suspension, differentials and what the wheelbase is. The Sequoia is closer to a Land Cruiser than ever before and I think it addressed a lot of shortcomings and wants but I'm not ready to say it will replace it until we get further details.
You do realize that old school full time AWD vs modern AWD are dramatically different in regards to system logic that keeps modern vehicles pointed in a desired direction when all hell breaks loose.
Todays selectable 2wh, 4hi, 4lo and part time AWD is just a modern more efficient option over old school fixed awd. Not to mention I liked how the Sequoia drove on dry pavement in 2wh drive vs awd. Also liked it over my full time awd J80. Plus the bump in mileage and range was nice too.
Same goes for my 2019 Expedition which is selectable 2wh, A4, 4Hi, 4Lo. Even in the over caffeinated sport mode it drives nicer in 2wh even tho sport mode defaults to A4 likely to keep stop light drag racers from burning off the back tires.
 

calicamper

Expedition Leader
As for pricing? I laugh at the $60,000 price comments. The old as dirt badly outdated Sequoia sells for 60. No way your getting a new 4x4 Turbo 10spd Sequoia for 60k. Especially considering Toyota dealers are bending buyers over the finance desk for basic Highlanders tacking on huge dealer price gouging fees over msrp! You’ll be lucky if you can get a bare bones Sequoia for $68,000-70k
 

Littlehouse

Adventurer
Even as a 3rd row user I haul kids to vball practice and tournaments 2-3 days a week. The fold in floor 3rd row eats up about 8 inches of floor to roof height in the rear cargo area. Vs the old removable 3rd row you have a considerably larger rear gate opening and floor to roof height. Its the one thing I didn’t like moving to a in floor 3rd row SUV. Vs my old Sequoia

Outside of that I like my expedition and its my favorite SUV after 4runner, J80 and Sequoia ownership. The Expedition is quick, can post great mileage, has a rear locker😳, better comfort for the passenger ie fully adjustable and massage seats etc.

So really the new Sequoia was pretty much a must or Toyota needed to just quit making it.
The Expedition has a legit selectable locker, or is it a version of a locker like the G80?
 

sn_85

Observer
You do realize that old school full time AWD vs modern AWD are dramatically different in regards to system logic that keeps modern vehicles pointed in a desired direction when all hell breaks loose.
Todays selectable 2wh, 4hi, 4lo and part time AWD is just a modern more efficient option over old school fixed awd. Not to mention I liked how the Sequoia drove on dry pavement in 2wh drive vs awd. Also liked it over my full time awd J80. Plus the bump in mileage and range was nice too.
Same goes for my 2019 Expedition which is selectable 2wh, A4, 4Hi, 4Lo. Even in the over caffeinated sport mode it drives nicer in 2wh even tho sport mode defaults to A4 likely to keep stop light drag racers from burning off the back tires.
I'm not comparing old vs new. I'm just saying that those systems have been in the LC since the 80 series. I'm sure new part time system are better than they were 20 years ago. That goes without saying. My comment is comparing the new Sequoia with its part time system to the new 300 series LX and LC and the 200 series LC with full-time 4wd systems. I'm sure you liked how your Sequoia drove in 2wd over awd on dry pavement, most people do, and you shouldn't need to drive in 4wd or awd on dry pavement anyways. Especially shouldn't be in 4wd with a part time system on dry pavement. It all depends where you live and the conditions. I live in Idaho and do a lot of winter traveling where road conditions change quickly, full-time 4wd has been nice. If you've driven a Toyota with a part-time 4wd system lately then you know it's not an instant-on thing and it takes a few revolutions for the 4wd system to engage. If nothing else, the new Sequoia should have had a 4A option like your Expedition. I'm sure the Tahoe/Surburbans and Wagoneers do as well. I have this same complaint about the new Tundra as well. The competition like the F150, Silverado/Sierra, and Ram I think have 4A options. All except Toyota.
 

calicamper

Expedition Leader
I'm not comparing old vs new. I'm just saying that those systems have been in the LC since the 80 series. I'm sure new part time system are better than they were 20 years ago. That goes without saying. My comment is comparing the new Sequoia with its part time system to the new 300 series LX and LC and the 200 series LC with full-time 4wd systems. I'm sure you liked how your Sequoia drove in 2wd over awd on dry pavement, most people do, and you shouldn't need to drive in 4wd or awd on dry pavement anyways. Especially shouldn't be in 4wd with a part time system on dry pavement. It all depends where you live and the conditions. I live in Idaho and do a lot of winter traveling where road conditions change quickly, full-time 4wd has been nice. If you've driven a Toyota with a part-time 4wd system lately then you know it's not an instant-on thing and it takes a few revolutions for the 4wd system to engage. If nothing else, the new Sequoia should have had a 4A option like your Expedition. I'm sure the Tahoe/Surburbans and Wagoneers do as well. I have this same complaint about the new Tundra as well. The competition like the F150, Silverado/Sierra, and Ram I think have 4A options. All except Toyota.
Which case the old GM altrack and the Ford A4 systems see way way way more miles in regions like yours than the few Full time rigs that exist. The only difference today will be the selectable rigs will get far superior mileage when conditions are not AWD conditions and they’ll drive better too.

Toyota just is removing the AWD ie 3rd choice given 4hi is the same thing in these modern systems.
Lots of people fell for the marketing BS started by land rover with terrain modes. Oh yeah I have 6 terrain mods vs your 4 modes BS.

Modern systems technically should make all these “modes” obsolete but that would take away marketing BS from the sales teams😆
 

calicamper

Expedition Leader
The Expedition has a legit selectable locker, or is it a version of a locker like the G80?
Not a friction G80
Its an electric push button locker. In these big SUVs the number one reason they get stuck is due to no rear locker. Got my Sequoia stuck several times all due to that. G80 is pretty good when you got nuthin and are stuck while a clapped out rust bucket Suburban goes right by you😆
 
Last edited:

Grassland

Well-known member
Not a friction G80
Its an electric push button locker. In these big SUVs the number one reason they get stuck is due to no rear locker. Got my Sequoia stuck several times all due to that. G80 is pretty good when you got nuthin and are stuck while a clapped out rust bucket Suburban goes right by you😆
Interesting, in Canada it's a limited slip on the FX4 and not a locker that's available.

Current gen Sequoia TRD is over 80k CAD locally.
New gen Tundra SR TRD Off-road can be had mid 50s CAD locally.
 

XJLI

Adventurer
Which case the old GM altrack and the Ford A4 systems see way way way more miles in regions like yours than the few Full time rigs that exist. The only difference today will be the selectable rigs will get far superior mileage when conditions are not AWD conditions and they’ll drive better too.

Toyota just is removing the AWD ie 3rd choice given 4hi is the same thing in these modern systems.
Lots of people fell for the marketing BS started by land rover with terrain modes. Oh yeah I have 6 terrain mods vs your 4 modes BS.

Modern systems technically should make all these “modes” obsolete but that would take away marketing BS from the sales teams😆
The modes define make a difference, but it depends on the manufacturer. My Land Rover modes really change everything, but on my wife's VW they're pretty useless.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
178,296
Messages
2,781,537
Members
213,115
Latest member
Piercecustoms79
Top