Who ordered a New Defender ?

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I understand that they will sell it in europe for a couple of months before it comes to the US. I like that all the first gen issues gets sorted out in europe before it gets here.
They did this same roll-out proceedure with the D5 and there were certainly still a lot of issues. JLR cannot move that fast, vehicles are being made and shipped a couple months before hitting US dealers, so problems are not always (or even often) fixed until much later when updates are sorted out across the global platforms. BUT, with the SOTA, perhaps this will improve the timing significantly. I guess we'll find out...


It comes down to the leadership and what level of quality they put into their SW processes. But i should be transparent and admit that my company updates our customers systems the same way (i'm not in the automotive industry, but in hi-tech). In my industry we worry a lot about having too many customers in the early days of a products lifecycle, since we may have too many issues at once to debug and update. Hopefully this doesn't happen to JLR. My volvo updates over the air -this has worked well so far for me.


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I’m not saying the pre prod vehicles are not the same as what will be built. What I’m saying is they are not letting anybody drive one.
One will be at my local dealer in a couple weeks. I plan to check it out.

They've already got 10 preorders, and will probably get more when they have one on the lot.

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I don't think "preproduction" equals "prototype". Prototypes are much earlier in the process, imo.
Not necessarily so - pre-production does not always equal "prototype". Prototype equals prototype. On prototype vehicles, they may have parts-bin switchgear and not all of the features may work or work as they will in the production model. Panel gaps may not be to production tolerances, but generally performance should be on par with what they desire the production model to be.

Pre-production usually means they are validating production methodologies and tolerances on the final version of the vehicle, and it's built to performance standards and should include most production options. They're often used as press cars to get first-drive impressions.

The pre-production Discovery Si6 I drove was the equivalent of the HSE Lux trim but wasn't badged, and had options like the cupholder phone charger that wasn't available at launch. It had consistently small panel gaps and everything worked as it should, but was a flat commercial white with some pretty beat up tires and a few dings from Moab testing and press reviews.

I expect the Defender that will be at my dealer in November will be similarly built.

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Expedition Leader
Has anyone sat inside the new defender 110? How is the shoulder width? Similar to the full size range Rover?

I'm really digging the 110. I was considering getting a 2020 G wagon but the new defender is totally up my alley. I have wide shoulders and need a full size car. My wife drives a Volvo xc90 that is perfectly sized for me. If the new defender is the same I'll take it.

For those who worry about complicated engines, that train has left the station. If you worry about this you need to keep your 70s and 80s cars. The 2020 and onwards cars and trucks are chock-full of electronics, batteries and semi-exotic drive trains. These components aren't repaired, they are designed as replaceable modules. Yes it makes parts more expensive, but compared to the challenge of diagnosing and issue this is the future. It's the way Enterprise class computing has been done for years and it's moved down into consumer goods as those has become much more computerized than ever before. I'm comfortable with that, and resigned to what the implications of that means for overland and off-road.
I recall that they are Euro Narrow far from full sized US width. The G is a skinny one too. The Volvo is a fat bloated bastard.


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JLR finally admits that BEV's are a poor choice for products where range is important (likely also realizing that EV's have limited market penetration/sales), now considering fuel cells for future power trains. Wouldn't be surprised to see JLR and BMW co-developing the technology for second half of decade introduction.


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Not sure if you're trolling or...

Certainly, a Toyota is what comes to mind when people mention "bulletproof" reliability. However, even Toyotas have their issues. FJ80 cruisers are known for eating their gaskets; many have found junkyards due to this. Additionally, Tacomas have been suffering from frame rot for the last 2 decades or so. Don't even get me started with products from FCA. I've seen plenty of new JLs with electrical powertrain issues (Also, death wobble!). Somewhat related, I own an FCA product (2019 Hellcat) and that had to go back to the dealer 3 weeks after purchasing it new for a replacement battery. My point being this, no vehicle is perfect.

My 2008 LR3 has an indicated 171k miles on the odometer and sounds very healthy due to proper maintenance (probably closer to 190k actual due to the tire size). The reality is that no Toyota of similar age will be cheaper than an LR3 or Range Rover Sport due to their false stigma of unflappability; Toyotas break too, and I've witnessed it. IMO, I'd rather buy a used LR3 instead of an equivalent used Toyota LandCruiser for 25% of the price and save the difference for maintenance and repairs (that will inevitably be needed by both vehicles because certain components become consumables with time).

So, if presented with the option to buy a new Defender for 60k or shell out 85k for a Toyota Land Cruiser, I'll take my chances with the Defender and pocket the difference for maintenance and equipment. Land Rover's reliability has improved dramatically since the days of the D1, D2, P38 and Freelander. I'll admit, the 5.0 motors did have timing chain issues, but most failures were seen on trucks that, wait for it...weren't properly maintained.
I was just posting my ,own thoughts,I have run LRs since 1960 starting with probably the best one they made a series 1,easy to maintain and went anywhere,from there it was Series 2,3 ,Discovery 2 TD5,Range Rover P38 4L V8.
During the seventies I bought and sold military surplus land rovers.
My point mainly is that the Defender was the last true off road vehicle LR made and now the new replacement will have no appeal to the commercial user,
and how good will the engines be,the 4l V8 was a gem but since then there seems to be a major problem with the newer models.But the Evoque had a Ford Transit deisel in it,worked well in the tranny but not in the RR.
Currently I run two RR P38s with 4L V8 and a TD5 Disco 2 and would not change the despite the dodgy electrics.


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last true off road vehicle LR made
I get it, you want a farm tractor.

the new replacement will have no appeal to the commercial user
That's fine. I guess REDROVER is back. If you don't like it, don't buy one. Nobody is forcing you to. Nobody is forcing you to post about it either...


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I'd have one on order now if they had a diesel in the line up. Three out of the four Land Rovers in my driveway are diesel. We need to make sure JLR NA knows that the buyers of this vehicle above all others in their lineup expect a diesel option.
Start a change.org petition
The straight 6 diesel will be a sweet option, hopefully you will get that.

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