Who ordered a New Defender ?

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mpinco

Expedition Leader
Three words: testing, testing, and testing.........
Testing never uncovers 100% of the field performance outcomes. It can't as the total number of variable combinations is very large . Ask the driver of the Tesla vehicle that was bricked.
 

Parb

Daydreaming
Has anyone sat inside the new defender 110? How is the shoulder width? Similar to the full size range Rover?

I'm really digging the 110. I was considering getting a 2020 G wagon but the new defender is totally up my alley. I have wide shoulders and need a full size car. My wife drives a Volvo xc90 that is perfectly sized for me. If the new defender is the same I'll take it.

For those who worry about complicated engines, that train has left the station. If you worry about this you need to keep your 70s and 80s cars. The 2020 and onwards cars and trucks are chock-full of electronics, batteries and semi-exotic drive trains. These components aren't repaired, they are designed as replaceable modules. Yes it makes parts more expensive, but compared to the challenge of diagnosing and issue this is the future. It's the way Enterprise class computing has been done for years and it's moved down into consumer goods as those has become much more computerized than ever before. I'm comfortable with that, and resigned to what the implications of that means for overland and off-road.
 

Red90

Adventurer
Nobody has sat in one. They don’t exist yet. It has all been preproduction prototypes. The first production models won’t be available until spring.
 

Pilat

Tossing ewoks on Titan
Nobody has sat in one. They don’t exist yet. It has all been preproduction prototypes. The first production models won’t be available until spring.
I don't think "preproduction" equals "prototype". Prototypes are much earlier in the process, imo.
 

Parb

Daydreaming
I got to imagine that the pre-production models is what is being used to get regulatory approvals. That can't be too far away from the real thing for basic structural stuff like shoulder rooms and seat height. When I build product at work we get to the stage where we start ramping up for manufacturability, the first articles out of that process is technically a pre-production model and it's the article that we use for regulatory approvals. If we fail things like safety or fcc emissions test (the stuff I build can emit electrostatic fields due to circuitry used in the system) them we take it back and build another pre-production unit. But we never change structural stuff (what we call mechanical design) unless we have to. If that happens then we are going to miss shipping not by months but by a year or more. And we will sit in inventories in the supply chain that can bankrupt any company. In just can't imagine that their pre-production stuff isn't close to final article, anything else would be crazy.

Electronics may not be finished but that I'm expecting to be updating forever on these modern always-connected vehicles.
 

Red90

Adventurer
I’m not saying the pre prod vehicles are not the same as what will be built. What I’m saying is they are not letting anybody drive one.
 

Paddler Ed

Adventurer
Thousands sat in them at frankfurt

Multiple car carriers have been spotted already.

Interesting that they're only single layered, unless they were only running a small number on the truck, that'll push the delivery cost up.

In terms of road tests, keep an eye out on the reputable magazines (not some of the YouTube car review channels) as they will get the first dibs on a road test. I suspect that the Haymarket group in the UK will get their hands on one first (Autocar, What Car) followed by the Land Rover specialist press (Land Rover Owners (LRO) and Land Rover Monthly), then Car Magazine (https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/), Top Gear and Auto Express (and their European partners). After that, it'll be rest of the world magazines, with the American's first.
 

Pilat

Tossing ewoks on Titan
I'm pretty sure that carrier has already unloaded the ones on the bottom level.

F9C2BFA8-68D4-4094-B254-E3EFDA057D4A.jpeg

To be honest, it would be weird if this Defender was the only SUV-sized vehicle that couldn't fit car carriers intended for carrying cars - including SUV-sized ones.


F9C2BFA8-68D4-4094-B254-E3EFDA057D4A.jpeg
 

Parb

Daydreaming
I have to admit that the more i read on the specs of the new defender, the more i like it.
shoulder room is 3" wider than my xc90. It can tow a lot. the most that i need to tow is something like 6,000-6,500lbs (and this is an occasional thing), this truck is rated for up to 8,120lbs of towing.
The more i read the more i like it... I understand that they will sell it in europe for a couple of months before it comes to the US. I like that all the first gen issues gets sorted out in europe before it gets here.

I plan to wait until i read the first more independent magazine reviews before i'll consider seriously about putting in a down payment and secure a slot. But i'm really digging what i am reading so far.
 

sarfarm

New member
Why buy a computer on wheels,prvious models are bad enough with the V8 and V6 engines breaking cranks and cylinder heads.Buy a jeep or Toyota more reliable and cheaper.
 

soflorovers

Active member
Why buy a computer on wheels,prvious models are bad enough with the V8 and V6 engines breaking cranks and cylinder heads.Buy a jeep or Toyota more reliable and cheaper.
Not sure if you're trolling or...

Certainly, a Toyota is what comes to mind when people mention "bulletproof" reliability. However, even Toyotas have their issues. FJ80 cruisers are known for eating their gaskets; many have found junkyards due to this. Additionally, Tacomas have been suffering from frame rot for the last 2 decades or so. Don't even get me started with products from FCA. I've seen plenty of new JLs with electrical powertrain issues (Also, death wobble!). Somewhat related, I own an FCA product (2019 Hellcat) and that had to go back to the dealer 3 weeks after purchasing it new for a replacement battery. My point being this, no vehicle is perfect.

My 2008 LR3 has an indicated 171k miles on the odometer and sounds very healthy due to proper maintenance (probably closer to 190k actual due to the tire size). The reality is that no Toyota of similar age will be cheaper than an LR3 or Range Rover Sport due to their false stigma of unflappability; Toyotas break too, and I've witnessed it. IMO, I'd rather buy a used LR3 instead of an equivalent used Toyota LandCruiser for 25% of the price and save the difference for maintenance and repairs (that will inevitably be needed by both vehicles because certain components become consumables with time).

So, if presented with the option to buy a new Defender for 60k or shell out 85k for a Toyota Land Cruiser, I'll take my chances with the Defender and pocket the difference for maintenance and equipment. Land Rover's reliability has improved dramatically since the days of the D1, D2, P38 and Freelander. I'll admit, the 5.0 motors did have timing chain issues, but most failures were seen on trucks that, wait for it...weren't properly maintained.
 

Parb

Daydreaming
I really like the Wrangler unlimited. Its a pretty cool car. But i think i really like the style and the little comforts in the new Defender more. But the wrangler isn't terrible.
A toyota? Not even on the list. Of the toyotas i really only like the Tundra and the cfo at home has banned me from buying any pickup truck built after 1975 (she is reluctantly okay with older trucks).
 
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