Which EV would you buy?

plh

Explorer
EV / PHEV - own? ie: keep it for more than 3 years? no, not now, technology is too rapidly advancing. Currently has the cell phone model, darned near so different in 3 years you can wait to get a new one, but unlike a cell phone that costs $400+ the EV costs $40K+. I lease a 2018 Outlander PHEV for those not browsing signatures.
 

badm0t0rfinger

Raptor Apologist.
If I were in the market, I'd be waiting for the electric F150 or Hummer due to the dealer network for servicing.
This would be my bet. I would absolutely drive an electric F150. Even if it wasn't nearly as capable offroad or had diminished bed space due to battery placement. As long as it had a 400 to 600 mile range that would be more than enough. I mean my truck when filled estimates about 425 til empty and I've never ever seen that as a problem.

That being said I just put a deposit down on a Model 3 Long Range, so I am jumping onto this EV bandwagon. I'm incredibly excited and this will also be my first foray into a regular car as well.
 

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Saw a Y ford the Freemont river a couple weeks ago, they were headed out to the Cathedral Valley Loop. I was fishing and they just appeared, drove through like it was just a regular Tuesday.

There are a lot of naysayers that show up here just to talk **********, who have never driven an EV let alone owned one. It's the inter webs, go figure. Rivian is the real deal, saw the truck at OEX in Flagstaff a couple years ago. It's slightly smaller than an F150 and a a bit bigger than a Tacoma, in my opinion the perfect size. They are a legit company and the production line is going in as we speak. It's not going to happen tomorrow for sure, but its coming. I've been driving EVs as daily drivers for six years now, my current car can take me anywhere in North America on a paved road.
 

Shovel

Dreaming Ape
There are a lot of naysayers that show up here just to talk **********, who have never driven an EV let alone owned one. It's the inter webs, go figure. Rivian is the real deal, saw the truck at OEX in Flagstaff a couple years ago. It's slightly smaller than an F150 and a a bit bigger than a Tacoma, in my opinion the perfect size. They are a legit company and the production line is going in as we speak. It's not going to happen tomorrow for sure, but its coming. I've been driving EVs as daily drivers for six years now, my current car can take me anywhere in North America on a paved road.
I'm a naysayer who has driven several full EV's, my sister owns one, I've owned a hybrid.

But also I own a calculator and my occupation has me using Ohm's law every single day for close to two decades which doesn't make me an EV expert but it's at least reasonable to say I have some comfort in the realm of how electricity works.

Can you daily drive an EV in the city? Yeah of course people do it all the time there's infrastructure for that and roadgoing EV's have a ton of efficiency advantages like aero and lightweight tires.
Can you make an electric that can drive off road? Yeah no sweat, you could literally just bolt an electric motor to the bellhousing of a manual transmission XJ and load the engine bay up with lead acid batteries and there you go.

Those are the easy parts.

Can you drive from Phoenix to Douglas AZ to Morgan MT the whole length of Highway 191 and back to Phoenix with a pure focus on recreation, off-road adventure and exploration without any concerns at all about when and where you refuel, inside of a single week off work?
I know that's a really specific trip but it's a really specific trip I took last summer and we saw exactly two obviously electric vehicles outside of major cities the whole trip, one of those vehicles was parked on an offramp gore apparently with some kind of mechanical problem or flat battery 30 miles north of las vegas on our return leg.

As a novelty you can drive an electric anywhere. With enough planning you can drive a moped across the Sahara too but then it becomes a stunt where you're wholly focused on carrying out the stunt not on enjoying the journey. Maybe we all travel for different reasons but I don't get any pleasure out of babysitting my vehicle's needs, the fewer needs it has the better.

And in some ways EV's have fewer needs like you don't need to change the oil every 5-10k miles and your brakes last forever which is cool. With PHEV's it becomes more like one oil change per year and you still get all the other EV benefits but you also don't get the EV drawback of energy storage and transfer limitations.

So one could handwave "naysayers" but you can't handwave the laws of physics and the realities of the supply chain. We'll probably see a lot of those PHEV Wranglers out in the wild places because they actually stand a good chance of functioning at all.
 

billiebob

Well-known member
That looks pretty interesting. Too bad it wouldn't tow my trailer.
If I could afford it, this would top the list for me.

As for range there are more and more ways to recharge without plugging in. The first gas engines made under 40HP and got under 10MPG. As the market for EVs grows, so will the range, power, capability and recharging options. "Among the plug-in-hybrid Wrangler's other electric-centric features is regenerative braking. The system blends traditional friction brakes with the maximum amount of regen when the driver presses the brake pedal." Audi has been experimenting with e-shocks, generating electricity with every bump. Europe already has highways with recharging rails built in to charge your e-vehicle while you are driving giving unlimited range.

There was a time when fueling a gas engine was a pretty complex operation.

DSC_0014.jpeg
 

billiebob

Well-known member
Can you drive from Phoenix to Douglas AZ to Morgan MT the whole length of Highway 191 and back to Phoenix with a pure focus on recreation, off-road adventure and exploration without any concerns at all about when and where you refuel, inside of a single week off work?
umm, you can't do that with gas vehicle either. Refuelling is always a concern no matter what you drive.
 
I'm a naysayer who has driven several full EV's, my sister owns one, I've owned a hybrid.

But also I own a calculator and my occupation has me using Ohm's law every single day for close to two decades which doesn't make me an EV expert but it's at least reasonable to say I have some comfort in the realm of how electricity works.

Can you daily drive an EV in the city? Yeah of course people do it all the time there's infrastructure for that and roadgoing EV's have a ton of efficiency advantages like aero and lightweight tires.
Can you make an electric that can drive off road? Yeah no sweat, you could literally just bolt an electric motor to the bellhousing of a manual transmission XJ and load the engine bay up with lead acid batteries and there you go.

Those are the easy parts.

Can you drive from Phoenix to Douglas AZ to Morgan MT the whole length of Highway 191 and back to Phoenix with a pure focus on recreation, off-road adventure and exploration without any concerns at all about when and where you refuel, inside of a single week off work?
I know that's a really specific trip but it's a really specific trip I took last summer and we saw exactly two obviously electric vehicles outside of major cities the whole trip, one of those vehicles was parked on an offramp gore apparently with some kind of mechanical problem or flat battery 30 miles north of las vegas on our return leg.

As a novelty you can drive an electric anywhere. With enough planning you can drive a moped across the Sahara too but then it becomes a stunt where you're wholly focused on carrying out the stunt not on enjoying the journey. Maybe we all travel for different reasons but I don't get any pleasure out of babysitting my vehicle's needs, the fewer needs it has the better.

And in some ways EV's have fewer needs like you don't need to change the oil every 5-10k miles and your brakes last forever which is cool. With PHEV's it becomes more like one oil change per year and you still get all the other EV benefits but you also don't get the EV drawback of energy storage and transfer limitations.

So one could handwave "naysayers" but you can't handwave the laws of physics and the realities of the supply chain. We'll probably see a lot of those PHEV Wranglers out in the wild places because they actually stand a good chance of functioning at all.
My Ranger w/ the camper mounted has less range than my model 3. Yes, they are vehicles built for two different purposes, but the availability of electricity is not a problem. A trip from Phoenix to LA requires about a 50 minute stop, though we usually do two short stops instead of one. We also use the 3 when we stay in FS service cabins, such as the Portal Bunkhouse and Kendrick cabin.

The main reason I responded to this thread, in a section I rarely check, is because of the piling on. Just as in many corners of the internet, many feel the need to cast dispersions about something they are not even interested in, but just anxious to express their opinion. If you don’t want an EV don’t buy one. No need to run down the batteries in your multimeter getting excited about it, use your physics degree for something positive perhaps.
 

Todd n Natalie

Observer
My Ranger w/ the camper mounted has less range than my model 3. Yes, they are vehicles built for two different purposes, but the availability of electricity is not a problem. A trip from Phoenix to LA requires about a 50 minute stop, though we usually do two short stops instead of one. We also use the 3 when we stay in FS service cabins, such as the Portal Bunkhouse and Kendrick cabin.

The main reason I responded to this thread, in a section I rarely check, is because of the piling on. Just as in many corners of the internet, many feel the need to cast dispersions about something they are not even interested in, but just anxious to express their opinion. If you don’t want an EV don’t buy one. No need to run down the batteries in your multimeter getting excited about it, use your physics degree for something positive perhaps.
Just out of curiosity, along that route how long would recharging take? What if there is a car or two ahead of you? Would it be possible that recharging could take 3 hours?
 

Todd n Natalie

Observer
Looks like the infrastructure is getting there.






I think the recharge time is still a hindrance. Most gas stations have what...8 pumps? If there is only 1 or 2 charge stations, how long would it take to charged up? With gas it's what....5 minutes?
 
Just out of curiosity, along that route how long would recharging take? What if there is a car or two ahead of you? Would it be possible that recharging could take 3 hours?
Typically a total of about 50 minutes, we do this trip pretty regularly. Well, before COVID... We change up where we charge usually depending on wether I, or the dog have to pee.

Between here and LA there are probably a half a dozen superchargers. The car figures out where to charge when you select a destination. We also know how many chargers are available before we get there, which is updated real time. The car also pre-chills the battery for faster charging on approach.

Another misconception some people have is that you rarely ever charge to 100%, charge rates taper as you get closer to 100% but charge reduclously fast from 20% to 80%, which is why it’s often best to stop for short breaks of like 15 minutes every 250 miles or so. At least with the 3, which has 325 mile range. The new S is rated at 400.

A couple Christmas ago, we did have issues with waiting for a charger. It was Christmas Eve and we were on our way to LA. The model 3 had just come out the previous spring and Superchargers were packed. Since then more locations have been added and most of the locations have been expanded, some with more than 20 chargers. The cars charge faster now too, due to an OTA update.
 

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Todd n Natalie

Observer
Typically a total of about 50 minutes, we do this trip pretty regularly. Well, before COVID... We change up where we charge usually depending on wether I, or the dog have to pee.

Between here and LA there are probably a half a dozen superchargers. The car figures out where to charge when you select a destination. We also know how many chargers are available before we get there, which is updated real time. The car also pre-chills the battery for faster charging on approach.

Another misconception some people have is that you rarely ever charge to 100%, charge rates taper as you get closer to 100% but charge reduclously fast from 20% to 80%, which is why it’s often best to stop for short breaks of like 15 minutes every 250 miles or so. At least with the 3, which has 325 mile range. The new S is rated at 400.

A couple Christmas ago, we did have issues with waiting for a charger. It was Christmas Eve and we were on our way to LA. The model 3 had just come out the previous spring and Superchargers were packed. Since then more locations have been added and most of the locations have been expanded, some with more than 20 chargers. The cars charge faster now too, due to an OTA update.
Yeah, I think I'd be ready to get out and stretch every 250 miles, haha
 
Looks like the infrastructure is getting there.






I think the recharge time is still a hindrance. Most gas stations have what...8 pumps? If there is only 1 or 2 charge stations, how long would it take to charged up? With gas it's what....5 minutes?
I haven’t run into a Supercharger with less that a dozen chargers along a freeway. There are “urban” chargers with less , but over 20 is not uncommon on freeways. The new Version 3 chargers are capable of charging at speeds of up to 1000 mph. It’s a bit cringey to watch the numbers blur past, lotsa jules.

Unfortunately, at the moment this is mainly just a Tesla thing in the US. Other charge networks are growing but they are definitely not as wide spread out here in the square states. Most of the DCFC network is being funded by the VW Dieselgate suite, other legacy manufacturers aren’t really stepping up. Hopefully Rivian and Lucid can get things rolling.
 
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