where are the Porsche cayenne expo builds?

Scramblin_Jim

New member
Another question concerning off-road tires. I purchased a second set of rims and now getting ready to have some BFG All Terrain T/A K02 tires installed onto them.

Do you guys run TPM sensors with your off-road tires? I was planning on NOT putting sensors on the rims as I was setting up these tires/rims as strictly for off-road use. I usually run pressures around 15 to 20 PSI when off-road and they stay there unless for distances more than a couple miles on hard surfaces, then I'll air back up to 32 to 38 PSI. When I get back from my off-road trip I will put my street tires/rims back on the car.

I assume I will just get a warning light indication without the TPM sensors installed. Any unknown issues I should be concerned about with the TPM system?
 

skyfree

Active member
I did that exact thing with my 2012 Touareg TDI which should be very similar. Had 17" Canyon rims with BFG AT K02's and no TPMS. The tire pressure light comes on and you can either ignore it or put tape over it. The tires are really beefy so your chance of getting a puncture on normal paved roads is much reduced.
 

dreadlocks

Well-known member
A diagnostic tool should be able to code-out the TMPS sensors entirely, somewhere around 2013 they went to ABS system w/out in-wheel sensors.. Too bad VCDS dont work for you guys but I'd think Durametric's tool would.. if not perhaps a dealer can do it?

If your swapping wheels you could do what some old Jeepers I know did, threw the TMPS sensors into a PVC pipe with a valve stem in it and aired the pipe up to spec pressure.. put it in the vehicle when you swap out the tires and run whatever pressure you want lol.
 
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ViperNL

Observer
A diagnostic tool should be able to code-out the TMPS sensors entirely, somewhere around 2013 they went to ABS system w/out in-wheel sensors.. Too bad VCDS dont work for you guys but I'd think Durametric's tool would.. if not perhaps a dealer can do it?

If your swapping wheels you could do what some old Jeepers I know did, threw the TMPS sensors into a PVC pipe with a valve stem in it and aired the pipe up to spec pressure.. put it in the vehicle when you swap out the tires and run whatever pressure you want lol.
That does not seem right. An ABS based without wheel sensor is much less accurate. It's more of an old style system, whereas sensors in each tire is a much more accurate system.
 

dreadlocks

Well-known member
When I swapped on my TA's I didnt make it out of the neighborhood before it threw a light because I forgot to reset it, yeah it would not tell you immediately if you your tire lost pressure when you were parked/stopped but it will figure it out pretty quickly once moving.. thats the only downside I see, perhaps it'd be nice to see tire PSI on a display but meh.. I inspect my tires frequently with all the highway, towing and offroading miles I put on it.

Of my last 3 vag products, 2010 had in wheel sensors, 2013 had abs, 2014 had abs.. I prefer the ABS.. It detected a highway puncture on my diesel golf right away and I never have to deal with extra fees for handling sensors, dismounting tires because a battery died, buying extra sensors for winter/offroad tires, oh and they never throw false codes on an arctic morning because the air is denser.

I think as traction controll systems have been getting more computing power the ABS sensors now are alot more sensitive, enough so that I'd say its definitely progress loosing wireless battery powered wheel sensors.
 

mhiscox

Expedition Leader
mhiscox,

What platform rack are you running? I've been looking at Rhino Racks Pioneer Platform to mount on my Thule crossbars.
Please excuse my lack of a timely response. I thought I was subscribed to get alerts for this thread, but apparently not. My bad.

It's a Front Runner half rack that is listed on the Front Runner website as being for a Lexus GX470, but everything I can see suggests it's just a generic platform that, if it's the right size, will serve for anything.

The Front Runner's main advantage--and the reason that someone might want to pay the money for it--is the vast amount of auxiliary Front Runner bits that you can easily and flexibly attached. There's a wide assortment of mounting hardware, but also mounts for shovels, jerry cans, traction panels, ad infinitum, a lot of it pretty clever and all of it works quite well.
 

neliconcept

Spirit Overland
Chapter 2 of Tires for Turbos . . .

I'm envious of dr_2r2's nice BFG KO2s. I have a set on my GX470 and think they're almost magical in how well they work on pavement given their off-road performance. Alas, I can have no such tires for my Cayenne Turbo. [sniffle]

A while back—Post 321 of this thread—I wrote about my efforts to get some traction tires that would work on my 2012 Cayenne Twin Turbo. The gist of that post was that the Gen 3 Turbo’s big brake rotors meant that 19 inch wheels were the smallest that would fit, which led to me bemoaning the fact that, as best I could determine, the only 19” all-terrains available were the 255/60R19 Goodyear Adventure

View attachment 392608


and the 255/55 Goodyear DuraTrac.

View attachment 392609


Back then, the decision between them came down to 1) the fact that the Adventures were 60-series and thus had a bit more sidewall and 2) that they were nominally 31” tires while the Duratracs were 30”. The fact that the Adventures were less aggressive seemed a good thing, since when I got them, I hadn’t expected to take the Porsche anywhere where a more gung-ho tire would matter.

So I bought the Adventures and put them on 19” Sport Edition wheels and have been using them for going on two years. They’ve been great, and I like having them on much better than the Michelin Latitudes on 21” wheels that came on the truck originally. The Adventure's much higher sidewall makes the ride a lot better, but there’s no matching loss of handling at any of the speeds I drive. The Adventures are especially quiet, good in snow, and they don’t seem to have any drawbacks on public roads. I’m starting to think that, in fact, that the average Cayenne Turbo user would be better served by a cushy set of A/Ts like these than their rubber-band-like 35 series tires.

Recently, though, I’ve gotten the Turbo out out to the Tillamook OHV area and have run it around enough to be impressed with its capabilities. We took along my GX470 and there actually didn’t seem to be much to choose between the two trucks in terms of performance on moderate stuff. Actually, maybe the Cayenne is better for not-too-serious stuff, since suspension is brilliant on washboard (better than my trucks with custom suspensions) and I was surprised and impressed with the Cayenne's articulation and available clearance.

View attachment 392610

Anyway, the exercise has resulted in me becoming more committed to using the CTT more extensively off pavement, which in turn led to thoughts about more aggressive tires. The thought I had was to continue to run the Adventures for most use, but should I be taking a trip that would include some off-pavement stuff, I'd just swap on the more aggressive wheel set for that trip and then go back to the Adventures when I was back home.

So I went to the Tire Rack website to check the pricing of the 255/55R19 Duratracs and, aargh, they weren’t there anymore. Likewise not at the other usual tire-vending suspects. Then I went to the Goodyear website, and they were gone from there, too. Panic. A web search for 255/55R19 Duratracs led me to the Walmart website, which let me order them and, sure enough, a set of four showed up ten days later from Simple Tire in Bensalem, Pennsylvania, 3000 miles away. (Internet commerce is sometimes kinda strange.) I assume Goodyear discontinued the size after realizing that the number of people needing commercial traction tires for 19” wheels is pretty small. The fact that most of the SUVs on 19s can also run 18s, which would be better yet and offer lots of tire options is a big factor in this. After all, I’d be on 18s except they don’t fit over the rotors.

As with the Adventures, the totally competent folks at Portland’s German vehicle specialists Matrix Integrated mounted the Duratracs up to second set of the same Sport Edition wheels—chosen solely because I knew they’d fit right—and got them balanced without hassle. They look like this:

View attachment 392612

View attachment 392613

I’ve driven them around for a few hundred miles and am more than pleased. They might be a little noisier than the Adventures, but they’re a long way from noisy; you don’t notice them unless you decide to think about it. Handling seems plenty good and the lower sidewall doesn’t seem to matter to ride quality (my Cayenne’s PASM suspension has struck me as VERY good on all three sets of tires). I had Duratracs on my XV-JP and thought they were a great tire, so I was pleased to find they work even better on the Cayenne.

I expected that the inch reduction in diameter would have resulted in a half-inch more clearance in the wheel wells and it probably did, but a half-inch isn’t much and the clearance in still pretty tight. Like the Adventures, though, there’s no rubbing even at full lock, and no rubbing in any of the five suspension height settings.

View attachment 392614

View attachment 392615

I know this isn’t a particularly relevant post, given that the number of North American 2011+ Cayenne Turbos being off-roaded is apparently in the low single digits. I write this stuff up largely because I know how I couldn’t find any useful information and if there ever is another Turbo owner with the need for aggressive tires, this will help save experimentation. (And if this is pertinent to someone out there, think about grabbing a set of the Duratracs before they are all gone. I doubt they’ll be coming back.)

Finally, for the sake of completeness in this reference piece . . . There is one other 19 inch option . . . the 255/55R19 Atturo Blade Mud Terrain:

View attachment 392624

I haven't been a big fan of Mud Terrains for a pavement driver, not even on my Rubicon, so I didn’t give them serious thought to compliment the Adventures. But they do fit and they are available, and there are a few generally positive reviews (e.g., http://landroverforums.com/forum/off-topic-5/review-atturo-trail-blade-mts-255-55r19-76507) from Rover guys. They’d either look really serious or really goofy on a Gen 3 Cayenne. Someone buy a set so we can decide. ;)


So is the 265/50/19 the biggest tire you would put under your Turbo with PASM? Also how is it when using sport mode when it drops the cayenne one level? I used to work at a dealer and remember the two arrows up line and then two arrows down. I am looking at 2011-2014 Turbos/GTS with PASM and would love to hear your thoughts. My main premise will be to do high altitude roads (Ophir, Engineer, Argentine, Imogene pass, etc..) in Colorado and the trails in Death Valley, but definitely not looking to do series stuff, more just getting away for photography. I'll have two sets of wheels, either 19s or 20s for the offroad tires and keep the 21s with the 295/35s. I was thinking 265/50/20 which is slightly smaller than the 265/60/19 and that size I mentioned comes in a Nitto Terragrapler 2. Keep up the good work on the Cayenne as I'll be paying more attention!
 

neliconcept

Spirit Overland
The other question I had. Is the rear Diff lock standard on the turbos? I noticed the three light indicators on the on road/off road selector and according to the manual, the top light is center diff lock, middle light is off road mode (low range or no in 2011+?) and bottom light is rear diff lock.

These things seem pretty darn capable to me!
 

mhiscox

Expedition Leader
These things are indeed pretty darn capable, but tire size will always be a limiting factor. Everything is a compromise, though, with no free lunch.

From looking at them, it seems that my Adventures, at 255/60R19 are absolutely as big as you'll be able to manage without rubbing and with the PASM working as intended. There are--at least on my '12 CTT--no problems at all with the Adventures, but they live very close to body parts in all three dimensions. So any tire smaller should be fine.

I will say that the Adventures, IMHO, fill out the wheel wells just a bit too much. You look at the close fit of the tire and think "I'm surprised that works." The 255/55R19 Duratracs (and a set of 255/55R19 LTX M/S Premiers I have mounted now) are aesthetically probably a better choice, but at the cost of a full inch of diameter. And I really don't know for sure whether the truck is more capable on 31 inch light-AT Adventures or 30 inch aggressive-AT Duratracs.

The Cayenne 4WD system has always been more than adequate. In practice, the biggest worries--beyond trails that simply need big tires--are the encroaching vegetation that messes up the nice Porsche paint job and loose rocks that will bounce up and hurt the bodywork. But for "trail running" as opposed to "wheelin'," the Cayenne offers a great combination of capability and comfort. (Best truck I've ever had for fast washboard, for example.)

I think you are smart to be looking at the Gen II Cayennes. Big improvements over the Gen Is, and I can't see that the loss of a separate transfer case has any impact at all on the capability. The principal advantage to a Gen I would be that it wouldn't be worth as much so you'd be less worried where you took it. Beyond that, I think I like my 958 more on every criterion.

The rear diff lock is a byproduct of having Porsche Torque Vectoring. Once a Cayenne gets PTV, it gets a computer-controlled rear diff lock, and without PTV, there's no way to have it. My understanding is that PTV was optional on 958s, but some "options" were so routinely ordered on Turbos/GTSs as to be almost standard. PTV may be one of those.

Also, not that you asked (or didn't figure it out already), but factory roof rails are a feature. From what I've read, it seems that on 958s there's no practical way to add them after the build.

Good luck.
 

neliconcept

Spirit Overland
I did some searching through Porsche CPO and it seems that PTV is not all that common, more common on GTSs newer than 2016 but yeah, a little rare. I wonder how to find it on non CPO cars listed through Autotrader, that will be fun lol. I have to sort out job situation first but yeah I like the 958 for every day driving and I don't plan on doing any trails that really require low range and technical lines.
 

Mr. Merk

Member
Recently joined the Cayenne club when my wife traded her '14 Rubicon for an '08 Turbo. Both to eliminate a good chunk of debt and to get a more all around capable vehicle.

Been doing some routine maintenance and some upgrades preparing for our maiden voyage. We're towing a 24' remodeled camper trailer to Banff and as many national parks as possible in a 10 day period starting on the 30th.

I'm torn between finishing off these cheap All season 275/40R20s that are on it, getting 275/45R20 Conti DWS06 or go balls out on some 265/50R20 Terra Grappler G2s

Also I haven't been able to locate the OBA hose anywhere in the vehicle and wondering if I can adapt my universal air hose to attach to the port under the passenger seat?
 

dr_r2r

Observer
Last days of summer
 

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dr_r2r

Observer
Loving my new set up
 

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mk216v

Der Chef der Fahrzeuge
These things are indeed pretty darn capable, but tire size will always be a limiting factor. Everything is a compromise, though, with no free lunch.

From looking at them, it seems that my Adventures, at 255/60R19 are absolutely as big as you'll be able to manage without rubbing and with the PASM working as intended. There are--at least on my '12 CTT--no problems at all with the Adventures, but they live very close to body parts in all three dimensions. So any tire smaller should be fine.

I will say that the Adventures, IMHO, fill out the wheel wells just a bit too much. You look at the close fit of the tire and think "I'm surprised that works." The 255/55R19 Duratracs (and a set of 255/55R19 LTX M/S Premiers I have mounted now) are aesthetically probably a better choice, but at the cost of a full inch of diameter. And I really don't know for sure whether the truck is more capable on 31 inch light-AT Adventures or 30 inch aggressive-AT Duratracs.

I think you are smart to be looking at the Gen II Cayennes. Big improvements over the Gen Is, and I can't see that the loss of a separate transfer case has any impact at all on the capability. The principal advantage to a Gen I would be that it wouldn't be worth as much so you'd be less worried where you took it. Beyond that, I think I like my 958 more on every criterion.
.

We'll soon find out on tires. Loving these 255/55/19 Duratrac's for everyday and trail use.

Definitely go with a 958 IMHO. 955/957's feel so much heavier, more like driving an older truck/solid axle rig, than a sportscar SUV which the 958 is. 958 is soooo comfortable.

IMG_6143.JPG
 

mep1811

Gentleman Adventurer
Recently joined the Cayenne club when my wife traded her '14 Rubicon for an '08 Turbo. Both to eliminate a good chunk of debt and to get a more all around capable vehicle.

Been doing some routine maintenance and some upgrades preparing for our maiden voyage. We're towing a 24' remodeled camper trailer to Banff and as many national parks as possible in a 10 day period starting on the 30th.

I'm torn between finishing off these cheap All season 275/40R20s that are on it, getting 275/45R20 Conti DWS06 or go balls out on some 265/50R20 Terra Grappler G2s

Also I haven't been able to locate the OBA hose anywhere in the vehicle and wondering if I can adapt my universal air hose to attach to the port under the passenger seat?
I'm on my second set of General Grabber A/T's. My first set lasted 50k with 5K tire rotations. I've been very happy with them.
 

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