When will Toyota make this truck?

Dalko43

Explorer
I am a Toyota fan....to a fault, I will freely admit. I think they are one of the few remaining companies that has a reputation for both reliability and robust performance (especially in their BOF truck/SUV offerings).

But with some of their recent offerings, like the supposedly "new" Tacoma, it seems they are missing the mark, and with it a real opportunity to solidify their dominance in the mid-sized truck/suv market. The "new" Tacoma has a 3.5L naturally aspirated with similar HP/torque and fuel economy to the previous 4.0L engine and no significant changes in terms of capabilities...IMO it seems to be the same truck as the previous Tacoma, with slight enhancements here and there.

Yet, across the brand lines, other car-makers are trying to shake things up. Chevy is about to offer a duramax diesel in their Colorado.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jimgorzelany/2015/11/11/first-drive-chevys-31-mpg-colorado-diesel-pickup/


When will Toyota make a truck like this? Why haven't they already? They have plenty of experience with diesels in other markets. GM, Jeep and Dodge have shown that it is possible to make diesels US-compliant without breaking the bank. Toyota needs to get on this now and put a diesel in their Tacoma, and possibly 4runner, offerings. If they don't, I seriously might consider buying a mildly used Chevy Colorado in the next few years.
 

calicamper

Expedition Leader
The Ford 3.2L Ranger is an impressive machine also. It seems to be giving the Hilux a bit of a run in other countries recently. Mainly due to being more modern and being quite good. Ford just signed a UAW agreement to build the Ranger here. Its coming. I like the Colorado/canyon the diesel is impressive. The current Ranger is even better regarding interior space and quality of materials. Very curious to see what happens. I have 2-3yrs before I replace my Subaru and the 4dr midsized truck is my main interest.
 

MotoDave

Explorer
The new Tacoma with the 6 speed auto and 3.5 liter engine is rated at 23 mpg highway (Double Cab 4x4 Short bed), compared to I think 19 for the outgoing model. That's a 20% improvement, pretty significant I think.

Toyota has never been the innovator in the industry, why do you expect it to change now? They make really solid trucks that are as good as anything else on the market, and that sell well because of their reputation for reliability.

I'm very curious how the Ram 1500 diesel and Colorado diesel do on the market over the next few years. Both are a pretty steep premium over the equivalent gas V6/V8 engine, so on value alone there's no good argument for the diesel version.

No question Toyota could offer a diesel Tacoma/4runner, and I bet they've run the numbers and decided that there's not enough demand, and/or it would raise the cost of the vehicle excessively. A TRD Off Road Double Cab 4x4 tacoma is already $35k, add a $3-4k premium on that for a diesel engine and most US buyers are going to be looking at 1/2 ton trucks instead.

Edit: I just re-read my post and realize I come off anti-diesel - I'm not at all, I would pony up the (considerable) money to buy a Tundra diesel if they sold one here. I just think as a business proposition, I understand why toyota caters to the 95% of truck buyers who actually want a macho looking camry, vs the few of us that actually take them off road or use it like a truck.
 
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Dalko43

Explorer
The new Tacoma with the 6 speed auto and 3.5 liter engine is rated at 23 mpg highway (Double Cab 4x4 Short bed), compared to I think 19 for the outgoing model. That's a 20% improvement, pretty significant I think.
The outgoing Tacoma, with 5-speed auto was rated at 21mpg highway, and was likely to get 1-2 mpg more if you drove carefully.

You can compare the fuel economy of the 2 at:

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/

Toyota has never been the innovator in the industry, why do you expect it to change now? They make really solid trucks that are as good as anything else on the market, and that sell well because of their reputation for reliability.
I agree with that part in bold. I think they need to start to be an innovator if they want to keep their pie share of the mid-sized BOF/truck market. Their competition in that market seems to be growing.

I'm very curious how the Ram 1500 diesel and Colorado diesel do on the market over the next few years. Both are a pretty steep premium over the equivalent gas V6/V8 engine, so on value alone there's no good argument for the diesel version.
I think that issue you bring up is entirely dependent on the buyer. If the buyer plans on towing and/or long term use with extended mileage (well beyond 250k miles), the higher sales price associated with a diesel may be well worth the cost. Depending on the amount of annual driving, the fuel savings from a diesel could pay for the extra engine cost within several years of ownership:

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=36547&id=36548

No question Toyota could offer a diesel Tacoma/4runner, and I bet they've run the numbers and decided that there's not enough demand, and/or it would raise the cost of the vehicle excessively. A TRD Off Road Double Cab 4x4 tacoma is already $35k, add a $3-4k premium on that for a diesel engine and most US buyers are going to be looking at 1/2 ton trucks instead.
Yeah pricing a mid-sized diesel is tricky, especially with the already crowded full-sized pickup market. But GM and Ram and Jeep have found a way to sell them.
 

Martinjmpr

Wiffleball Batter
I agree with that part in bold. I think they need to start to be an innovator if they want to keep their pie share of the mid-sized BOF/truck market. Their competition in that market seems to be growing.
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Eh. We'll see. Right now the Colorado gets lots of attention because it's the new, shiny thing on the market but the real test will be whether GM stays behind it or whether they pull the plug if sales start to flag or if they think it's taking sales away from their full sized line. As for the rumors about Ford bringing the Ranger back, I'll believe that when I see it.
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I think that issue you bring up is entirely dependent on the buyer. If the buyer plans on towing and/or long term use with extended mileage (well beyond 250k miles), the higher sales price associated with a diesel may be well worth the cost. Depending on the amount of annual driving, the fuel savings from a diesel could pay for the extra engine cost within several years of ownership.
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People who buy new and plan to keep for 200K miles are such a small segment of the market that it makes no sense to roll out a product line for them. Do the math - average number of miles driven is between 12,000 and 15,000 annually so you'd be talking about someone who buys a truck new and keeps it in excess of 10 years. I'd be willing to bet the % of people who buy a NEW compact truck and keep it that long is probably a fraction of a percent.
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Yes, I know there are people who keep their vehicles longer than 10 years but a lot of those people don't buy new in the first place.
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As for towing, if someone really expects to do a lot of towing they probably wouldn't be shopping a mid-sized vehicle, they'd go for a full sized.
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Finally, I'm skeptical about "fuel savings" with a diesel. The difference between Diesel MPG and gasoline MPG is shrinking, as diesels become more complex and gas engines become more efficient. Additionally, in many markets diesel fuel is more expensive than gas so even a 20% decrease in fuel consumption may only be a 10% decrease in fuel cost.
 

calicamper

Expedition Leader
The big difference regarding fuel type with the mid sized will be range. Plenty of Taco owners put lacking range being one of the big complaints.

By the way Toyota has been lacking in inovation for years. I recall reading about top toyota brass meeting with Elon way back. The big discussion was how to spur inovation they liked what he was doing so much so they cut a sweet deal with him so he could build cars at the Fremont Numi plant.

Toyota and innovation are two things that do not go hand in hand in the Auto industry. Its funny how people creat their own perceptions of brands.

By the way GM has added two shifts to the Colorado/Canyon assembly line because they cant meet the demand. This is a new experience for GM and its dealers! A vehicle that sells its self, GM dealers are struggling with how to treat buyers who already know what they want and just need to get the paperwork done. LOL

The ranger deal is set UAW signed production contracts this past week. Now Ford might tottaly redesign the Global Ranger for the US market to avoid canniblizing the cash cow F150. But I hope they dont, and instead go after the "life style" market which is what the 4dr UTEs have really cashed in on elseware. Style, fun to drive, just big enough to play, not too big to be a disaster in Town etc. Add 5star passenger crash standards and they are attractive to city folk with higher salaries and more purchase power. Offer the right package I'll dump my Subaru for one in a heart beat.
 

onemanarmy

Explorer
I'll keep my older cars. they don't yell at you when you don't have on your seatbelt, extra keys cost $3, tires are cheaper, and the list goes on and on. The consumer doesn't want $100 keys and 15" touch screens that will fail. But as soon as one automaker does it, they all have to do it, for some reason.

Any new Hilux or Ranger sold here will have all those annoying bells and whistles. So no different than what is currently offered.

"they" could easily make a $20,000 new midsize truck (gasoline) that looks good and gets good gas mileage. No screens, no auto anything, only options would be AC and radio. Think of a new Z71 on the outside, but stripped out interior. Would be glorious.
 

TwoTrack

Buy Once, Cry Once
"they" could easily make a $20,000 new midsize truck (gasoline) that looks good and gets good gas mileage. No screens, no auto anything, only options would be AC and radio. Think of a new Z71 on the outside, but stripped out interior. Would be glorious.
Closest thing is the 2016 Tacoma Utility Package. MSRP is $21,585.
 
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onemanarmy

Explorer
Right over your head. I even threw out Z71 to get you thinking, and then you bring up the 3" ground clearance 2wd 4cyl Tacoma.

Full size. V8. Looks just like an upmarket truck from the outside (z71, lariat, etc) but has manual everything, rough and tough seats, no variable valve timing or variable displacment crap, nothing you don't need (and all that adds tremendous cost) you get the idea. Might not even need an electrical engineer to design and work on it. I'll buy that.
 

Doc Foster

Adventurer
When will Toyota make a truck like this? Why haven't they already? They have plenty of experience with diesels in other markets. GM, Jeep and Dodge have shown that it is possible to make diesels US-compliant without breaking the bank. Toyota needs to get on this now and put a diesel in their Tacoma, and possibly 4runner, offerings. If they don't, I seriously might consider buying a mildly used Chevy Colorado in the next few years.
They do, it's called the HiLux, but unfortunately due to all of our regulations it is not offerred in the USA.
http://www3.toyota.com.au/hilux
It will be interesting with the upcoming Duramax Colorado and the Cummins Nissan what will Toyota do ???????? They will lose sales to these competitors. Not me, as I am happy with my Tundra (not the mpg though).
 

calicamper

Expedition Leader
Keep in mind production cost difference between a full size and these mid sized rigs is probably nearly exactly the same. In order to make the numbers work the trend is adding content so the buyer isnt paying stupid high prices for a stripped out basic truck. I would be perfectly happy with a rubber mat floor board, no frills Manual 4dr with leather power seats lumbar on both sides for the front passengers, but the pricing numbers simply dont pencil out like that they cant make and sell the stripped but full 4x4 machine for enough of a profit, but add content and up the price tag and it starts to work.

By the way my wife has say and the Taco wouldn't make it past the first 60seconds pulling out of the parking lot for a test drive. No passenger Lumbar its Dead before it even had a chance, same goes for the Colorado. Unless a seat can be sourced and installed with the power adjustments and lumbar which case everything else about the truck has to be a grand slam. The Canyon is currently the only option that has a fighting chance. The Ranger interior is slightly roomier, and has the potential to pass the wife test. Heated cooled, power front seats like her 2016 Fusion Titanium would be a grand slam, with the 6spd manual and locking rear diff I'd be the first in line to order one.
 

Dalko43

Explorer
People who buy new and plan to keep for 200K miles are such a small segment of the market that it makes no sense to roll out a product line for them. Do the math - average number of miles driven is between 12,000 and 15,000 annually so you'd be talking about someone who buys a truck new and keeps it in excess of 10 years. I'd be willing to bet the % of people who buy a NEW compact truck and keep it that long is probably a fraction of a percent.

Yes, I know there are people who keep their vehicles longer than 10 years but a lot of those people don't buy new in the first place.
Perhaps the % of buyers who buy new and keep their car for 250k and beyond is low. So a long-living diesel engine may not matter to the person who buys it new, but it will matter to the person who buys it 2nd or 3rd hand on the used market. Want proof? Go look at the resale on heavily used diesel pickups and compare them to the resale on gas pickups. 250k for most diesel vehicles is simply a fraction of its overall life expectancy. 250k for a gas engine usually means a engine rebuild or new vehicle purchase is not far off.

Diesel engines carry a premium, both new and used, for a reason.

As for towing, if someone really expects to do a lot of towing they probably wouldn't be shopping a mid-sized vehicle, they'd go for a full sized.
Disagree vigorously, but respectfully, on that. A lot of people buy mid-sized pickups and SUV's because they want some measure of towing capability and cargo hauling utility without the horrible gas mileage and enormous vehicle footprint associated with owning a 'dedicated' tow pickup. The 'U' in SUV does stand for utility after all.

Besides, you're missing the overall advantage that a diesel has over a gas engine....and that is torque. Which comes into play not only in towing, but also in traffic merging, carrying heavy cargo loads, moving up and over rough terrain, ect.

Finally, I'm skeptical about "fuel savings" with a diesel. The difference between Diesel MPG and gasoline MPG is shrinking, as diesels become more complex and gas engines become more efficient. Additionally, in many markets diesel fuel is more expensive than gas so even a 20% decrease in fuel consumption may only be a 10% decrease in fuel cost.
You can be skeptical all you want. Modern diesel engines enjoy a sizable mpg advantage over comparable gas engines, especially when you compare engines based on towing capacity:
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=36547&id=36548&id=36598

And while gas engines have become more efficient (direct fuel injection, variable valve timing, ect.), a major reason for the overall increase in fuel economy has been due to advancements in vehicle aerodynamics and weight reduction. Diesel technology has advanced as well over the last several decades, since it is still widely used in most markets outside of the US. I wouldn't say that the gap between the 2 engine variants has shrunk; rather I would say both engine types have seen advancements in performance and efficiency.
 
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