What makes an Overland vehicle

udoxx

Observer
I have searched just a little and found the selecting an expedition vehicle link as well as some other member links, which causes me to pause and ask a few questions.

Now, I don't want to buy new as I already have what I believe to be an excellent Overland vehicle. What I want to know is why is it recommended to have a two inch lift and not a four. I somewhat understand why skinny tall tires are preferred over a wide proportioned tire. Are there any Gurus or outside links that will help me get on track to building my Commander into a great family Overlander?
 

Scott Brady

Founder
The trip dictates the vehicle, not the other way around. People have driven around the world in 2wd VW vans, including some bad roads.

Don't sweat the truck.

I am just finishing a new article on modifications. You will find that starting with the right vehicle, and just a few pieces of kit will be all you need.
 

alosix

Expedition Leader
Can't wait to see that article as I'm starting to work on a more expo oriented build instead of my old rock crawler ways.

What I can add to this though is the vehicle needs a good balance of parts to remain reliable. Staying with a 2" or less lift with a factory drive-train normally lets to keep the factory reliability.

The taller you get, the bigger tires you add, the stronger axles you'll need and the further from stock you're getting making sourcing parts in the bush that much harder. Its just a lot harder to keep that balance when you start getting much bigger than the stock vehicle.

Jason
 

matt s

Explorer
Hey now!!! I think that white paper cost me a thousand bucks in new tires!!!



They show up on Tuesday.
 

alosix

Expedition Leader
What model commander is it BTW?

I really like the shape of them, and with a mild lift the suspension and such really wouldn't be all that bad for overlanding.

My only concern would be the fact that there really aren't any locking differentials that I know of for the axles it has.

If its one of the higher end models the computer does a darn good job using the brakes to keep things going.

Jason
 

getlost4x4

Expedition Leader
I have a commander I have been working on for about 2 years. I use I for exploring and camping. I usually take it on 2 day trips because there are not any long trails around here

They are a tough vehicle. I like the electronic limited slips most of the time and when they do not work we just deploy the winch.

I was building commander parts for awhile but we quit the business due to lack of customers and a slow economy.

They haul a lot of stuff, are comfy, and have enough room to sleep in.

Check out my blog

www.getlost4x4.com
 
M

modelbuilder

Guest
What model commander is it BTW?

I really like the shape of them, and with a mild lift the suspension and such really wouldn't be all that bad for overlanding.

My only concern would be the fact that there really aren't any locking differentials that I know of for the axles it has.

If its one of the higher end models the computer does a darn good job using the brakes to keep things going.

Jason

There are lockers for the rear axles...no one has put them in because no locker manufacturer lists the commander or 05 and up Grand on their website. This has caused owners to think that there is no locker that will fit. No one has wanted to test it out. But I found out yesterday, and have confirmed with Eaton and Auburn that they do have lockers that will fit both the WK and XK.
 

udoxx

Observer
The trip dictates the vehicle, not the other way around. People have driven around the world in 2wd VW vans, including some bad roads.

Don't sweat the truck.

I am just finishing a new article on modifications. You will find that starting with the right vehicle, and just a few pieces of kit will be all you need.

The trip will of course be road until we get to our destination. This summer we did the Genoa Peak Pass originating in Tahoe which was more difficult than the Silver Creek Road between Oatman, AZ and Bullhead City. I found my self dragging over some of the rocks on Genoa Peak Pass while Silver Creek Road was just a dirt highway with many interesting sideways which seemed like threes and fours from a distance if I was to rate up to a five. I most definitely want to go with a taller tire than my stock 245/60/18s. I thought a 265/70/17 would be good until I read your article on tire size. Now I am leaning towards BFG AT 255/75/17 and two inch lift. I run both AT and MT on my Wrangler and love the BFG.

Also, it is the wife's daily driver and the family travel vehicle which tends to see plenty of dirt.

Let me know when the article posts. I read the one about 255/85/17s very interesting!

What model commander is it BTW?

I really like the shape of them, and with a mild lift the suspension and such really wouldn't be all that bad for overlanding.

My only concern would be the fact that there really aren't any locking differentials that I know of for the axles it has.

If its one of the higher end models the computer does a darn good job using the brakes to keep things going.

Jason

I have an Overland (the package pays homage to the Willys-Overland Motors back in the day). The only thing I think that can actually be usable for Overlanding would be the 5.7L, LSD and 3.73 gears 9hoping for 4.11s near future). The bread crumb feature in the Navi is helpful in getting back to the road when you hit an unmarked trail. The computer is adjustable. In 4lo the computer does not enable TCS, ESP or Roll Mitigation the only thing working is the Electronic LSD. The computer can be turned of in 4hi or partial off in 4hi. This systems makes up for the lack of articulation. I can only imagine where I can go with taller tires with better traction than my Forteras.

I have a commander I have been working on for about 2 years. I use I for exploring and camping. I usually take it on 2 day trips because there are not any long trails around here

They are a tough vehicle. I like the electronic limited slips most of the time and when they do not work we just deploy the winch.

I was building commander parts for awhile but we quit the business due to lack of customers and a slow economy.

They haul a lot of stuff, are comfy, and have enough room to sleep in.

Check out my blog

www.getlost4x4.com

Wassup getlost! The discussion about the BDS suspension on www.jeepcommander.com/forums lead me here looking for info on why small lifts and skinny tires are beneficial.
 

Root Moose

Expedition Leader
I would take the 2" and skinny tires thing as a recommendation only.

The size and type of vehicle dictates a lot. In the case of a XK I'd go as much lift as is practical (4" kits are available). They are bigger machines and the more height you get the more it will help with break over and approach/departure angles.

Realisitically, do you plan on leaving North America? If not then a lot of the build minimally stuff can be put aside (to a point). The idea about the small lifts is to have a truck that has a touch more clearance but does not have the drivetrain stressed due to the lift creating funky driveline angles. That makes it more reliable.

Skinny tires - if you are staying on real roads that are usually travelled but can be turned into a mess due to weather or whatever then the idea is that the skinny tires will dig down to the hard pack underneath without bottoming out the machine. For a XK sized vehicle that is very heavy I don't think this matters much. A lot of us in the Jeep forum will be venturing far from regular roads so we need to build a machine that will be competent for 'wheelin' style 4x4 usage.

(I think it is safe for us to say that most of the people in the Jeep section came from a wheeling background with an interest in overlanding versus starting with overlanding first - perspective is a little different compared to people that are coming from an overlanding background only)

The other advantage to skinny tires is fuel economy. Skinny means less aerodynamic and rolling drag. In my opinion, anything in the 10.5-11.5 inch range on a XK would be fine. I wouldn't do a 12.5 inch tire just because of the issues of making it fit and getting full steering lock-to-lock. It's too much tire. I also wouldn't do a 9.5" wide tire on a XK. Too much weight on a small foot print and it would look goofy IMO. :)

$0.02, YMMV, IMNSHO, etc.
 

Root Moose

Expedition Leader
There are lockers for the rear axles...no one has put them in because no locker manufacturer lists the commander or 05 and up Grand on their website. This has caused owners to think that there is no locker that will fit. No one has wanted to test it out. But I found out yesterday, and have confirmed with Eaton and Auburn that they do have lockers that will fit both the WK and XK.

Woohoo! That's great news!
 

JPFreek1

Explorer
I will quickly add that there is a significant difference between "overlanding" and "wheeling" and the needs between both can and probably will be different when building your rig.

Wheelers generally follow the "bigger is better" attitude in order to crawl over anything along the way. For overlanding, the purpose is to have a competent rig capable of moderate terrain travel. Overlanding is an experience of enjoying off-highway terrain, regardless of how difficult the terrain is. Wheeling is more about the challenge of the terrain and the ability to conquer it.

I actually came more from an overlanding background when I built my rig rather than a wheeling one and again, as Scott mentioned, the type of trip dictates the vehicle. I run 33" tires on a 3.5" short-arm lift in my Jeep Rubicon (which has front/rear lockers) and this has met every need I've ever had as an overlander or wheeler. Add a winch for sticky situations, roof rack for storage (or equivalent), and a navigation system (which is a luxury and not necessity as old school maps work just as well) and the basic setup is there.
 

Root Moose

Expedition Leader
Another thing to balance is tire size. Pick one that is commonly available, balance that against what is required to make it fit on your truck.
 

getlost4x4

Expedition Leader
My commander is set up as follows

3 inches of lift OME springs and spacers

255 75 17 bfg mud $500 for a set of 4 including shipping. Very common size I have about 35K miles and 50 percent tred left.

Rubicon wheels

1.5 " wheel spacers

This combo works great. I only get stuck in bottomless mud and some snow situations.

I can take my commander into most places I want to go around Montana and Wyoming. I feel I am prepared for almost any situation.

The drivetrain is pretty strong. I have yet to break anything on it. I have over 68K miles on mine with the 4.7 V8. It very well built.
 
Last edited:

udoxx

Observer
My commander is set up as follows

3 inches of lift OME springs and spacers

255 75 17 bfg mud $500 for a set of 4 including shipping. Very common size I have about 35K miles and 50 percent tred left.

Rubicon wheels

1.5 " wheel spacers

This combo works great. I only get stuck in bottomless mud and some snow situations.

I can take my commander into most places I want to go around Montana and Wyoming. I feel I am prepared for almost any situation.

The drivetrain is pretty strong. I have yet to break anything on it. I have over 68K miles on mine with the 4.7 V8. It very well built.

Are you using the spacers for leveling or to make up for the weight of your bumpers? Did you replace your UCAs? Is your rear sway disconnected, it looks like you get some good flex out back.
 

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