Wagoneer: Which years and why

pkelly72

Adventurer
I found a nice 1990 grand wagoneer but I had my heart set on a pre-75 smog exempt wagoneer (I'm in CA).

What model year should I be looking for. This is for an expo build.
 

gas4blood

Observer
That question really depends on a lot of things. They made the Wagoneer from 1963-1991. There were a lot of mechanical changes over the years. I bought my '79 for various reasons. If you gave a better idea of your build plans, I could help you out a little better.
 

pkelly72

Adventurer
Something reliable. Mild lift. 33" tires. Hunting, camping, weekend rig. I really need something that starts, stops, and gets me and my family home from camping. I could imagine doing long runs on occasion of 250 plus miles maybe a few times a year.

The 90 GW I'm looking at needs brakes, shocks and a headliner. None of this bothers me but I want to start off with the right platform.
 

reece146

Automotive Artist
It really doesn't matter wrt year... unless you want to stick with the 75 or older in your area to avoid the emissions testing and such (I'm not familiar with the details of the Cali process). We have something similar in Ontario, 87 and older is exempt.

That said, if you were planning on doing a modern drivetrain swap it really doesn't matter in that regard. Anything worth swapping in would be much better/newer than the last year of production (1991) so not a big deal to get it past the referee process. Find out your local reg details though.

I'm partial to the pre-86 for the older style dash. The square instruments and blocky wood in the 87-91 dashes don't appeal to me but that is a stupid little detail thing. For the right truck I would still buy it with that setup.

Some time in the early seventies there was an axle and drivetrain upgrade that put better parts in the systems. There's details out there that you will need to research - I forget the specifics. Anything earlier than that will have retro engines, transmissions and axles so you may end up swapping that junk out for more modern stuff.

In a nutshell the latest trucks from about 76 through 91 or thereabouts are pretty much the peak of the FSJ wagons. There are details that changed but from a building point of view they are more or less the same. For something you plan to keep stockish you can't go wrong if they are in good condition.

HTH
 

jeepdreamer

Expedition Leader
Your on the west coast..
Find an early, pre-emission Waggy with no rust and go from there. You'll have more freedom to upgrade or swap stuff around without the smog nazis breathing down your neck. I'd recommend manual windows as the newer waggys like to have a few issues with power related accessories, esp the rear window! Older is simpler so you won't have such a rats nest of wires to try and trace an issue.
Drivetrain wise they all are pretty similar. That being said... for ease of parts and wear I'd look for one with the 360/TH400(or manual tranny) and the dana 20. The Quadratrac is a good system but You'd want to do a part time conversion on it (more money) and parts are getting harder to come by.
 

88Xj

Banned
To toss it out here I've found roughly 5 Presmog wags while I was looking very recently. Start with a Presmog for sure. :)
 

timgr

Observer
There were a few watershed years for the Wagoneer.

The first was 1965, where the original 230 cid OHC and Borg-Warner automatic were abandoned for more conventional components. Pre-65 cars are for collectors only. From '65 on, the Wagoneer got the TH400 automatic, or one of several Borg-Warner manual transmissions. Most Wagoneers out there are automatics.

From '65 through '70, the cars stayed mostly the same except for changing from the AMC 327 V8 to the Buick 350 in 1968. Sometime around '68, the weaker nutted two-piece D44 rear axle was replaced by a flanged 1-piece axle. Significant upgrade.

In '71, following the purchase of Jeep from Kaiser Corp by AMC, AMC started using the 304 and 360 AMC V8s. The 360 continued to the end of the run in 1991. Some were built with the 401 V8 or the 258 inline 6, but most were 360s. The 304 was dropped for the Wagoneer in 1972.

In 1973, the revolutionary Borg-Warner Quadratrac transfer case (BW1305 and BW1339, with and without low range) were introduced. These have very significant parts issues today. They wear out chains in roughly 60K-100K miles, and the USA-made chains are gone. Crown supplies import chains of unproven quality (early import chains were junk). Virtually all automatic cars '74-79 got the Quadratrac. With the loss of the USA chains (Morse), the part-time conversion is NLA, I believe. Read the Jubilee Jeeps page before you consider a Quadratrac - http://www.jubileejeeps.org/quadratrac/

In 1974, the Wagoneers and J-10 trucks went to 6-lug wheels and a new front axle, the open knuckle Dana 44 with disk brakes. This is a major upgrade. Prior to 1974, the front axle was either a Dana 27 (through 69ish) or Dana 30 closed-knuckle axle. The open knuckle axles have a tighter turning radius, require less maintenance, are stronger, and the D44 is a big upgrade from the D30.

The next watershed year was 1980, where the TH400 was dropped and the Chrysler TF727 was fitted, along with one of several aluminum case chain drive new Process transfer cases (NP208, NP219, NP228, NP229). The front driveshaft drop changed from passenger side to driver side. Changes from here to the end of the run were mostly cosmetic or emissions related. Jeep started putting the AMC Corporate rear axle in these cars (M23), but it's not the same as the weak M20 axle that came in CJs - stronger tubes and 1-piece axles, basically equivalent to a flanged Dana 44.

If I had to choose, I'd choose a 1974 through 1979 model with a manual transmission. Manual transmission cars did not get the Quadratrac, instead getting the venerable Dana 20 gear-driven case.

Starting in 1977, the Wagoneer (model 15) went upscale and was split from the down-market 4-door Cherokee (model 18). Don't overlook the Cherokees from this era... they came in 2-door narrow track (16), 2-door wide track (17) and 4-door narrow track variants. Almost all Wagoneers after 1976 were V8/Automatic/full-time with all the bells and whistles.

I may not have gotten all the years exactly right - you can check the drivetrain database on IFSJA if you need more details http://www.ifsja.org/tech/figures/db.html
 
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timgr

Observer
Also, being in CA, if you want a later car and don't want to mess with the potentially overwhelming emissions issues, there is a Howell throttle-body EFI kit for most years of Wagoneers that is CARB approved. Most peoples complaints about the later Wagoneers in CA stem from the difficulty of keeping them emissions legal. The Howell kit should help a lot with this. Not cheap though ...
 

timgr

Observer
What would I pick? This excludes drivetrain swaps, which may or may not be in your plans. If you are thinking about axle swaps, you need to do more research.

1) '68-73 Wagoneer with automatic and V8, no '73 Quadratrac cars. Drum brakes and the weak front axle are the weaknesses in this era. Convert front axle to disk brakes, rebuild the knuckles and do a knuckle stud conversion. Hydroboost? Keep the tire size down with this one - say, 30s - to avoid breaking the front axle shafts or gears. See Dr. Marneus' rig.
2) '74-79 narrow track Cherokee or Wagoneer with a manual transmission, avoiding the B-W Quadratrac. Ideally, a '79 with a 258 and a T-18; upgrade the 258 to CARB-approved Chryco TBI kit, or get a later model 4.0L HO approved (likely difficult due to Wagoneer's high GVWR).
3) '80-87 Wagoneer with a 258 and T-176 4-speed - these exist but are scarce. Not a speed demon, but a nice driver. Keeping the tire size down would help with performance. Their factory carb (Carter BBD) is problematic, so the Chryco TBI kit would be a big plus.
4) 80-91 Wagoneer with a 360 and Howell TBI kit (check applicability to specific year).
 

pkelly72

Adventurer
I'm considering this one:http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/cto/3369342927.html

An this local gem: http://modesto.craigslist.org/cto/3515165632.html

The 73 is a bit far from me and it might be more than I need but I like the idea of it in a lot of ways. The 90 is close. I looked at it yesterday. It leaks power steering fluid and oil, it smells like mildew, interior is rough.

I would need to get brakes, tires, lift on the 90 and misc other stuff. The 73 still needs work. The wiring scares me the most.
 

reece146

Automotive Artist
Of those two I'd take the 90 or keep shopping. The 73 looks to me to be someone's half baked project and it has a Gen I SBC so a lot of headache for little gain (if retro engines are your thing might as well keep the AMC). If it had a Gen III/IV SBC I might think differently.

No matter what you buy it'll leak something.

There are nice Jeeps out there, be patient and keep looking IMO.

What's your budget?
 

pkelly72

Adventurer
Initial start up is around $3000 and willing to sink more money and labor in as necessary.

I'm going back to look at the 90 on Saturday. I'm thinking of making a low offer. If they say no that's fine. I just keep looking.

I know what you mean about the 73. Inheriting someone's problems might make my wife leave me.
 

dieselcruiserhead

16 Years on ExPo. Whoa!!
Timgr,
Excellent posts and a wealth of info! I briefly had a '69 wagoner that was the ultimate tried and true expedition vehicle. He had it and used it for baja surfing excursions mostly for something like 20 years and basically left it at my house for a year or so when he got a very clean 87 lad cruiser. Stone reliable, very comfy, very easily modified w locking hook and fuel. And a custom heavy duty suspension. Only thing that was finicky was consistent ac and the horrible mileage of course. But better than the quadratracks! I wish I had kept it to this day...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk, hence the typos...
 

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