Vacuum Insulated Composite Panels

Gatsma

Adventurer
A fireplace is more sentimental than practical. More heat goes up the pipe, by far, than warms the interior. It has no useful place in an efficient camping vehicle. (MY opinion, folks. Flamers need not reply)
 

DirtWhiskey

Western Dirt Rat
A fireplace is more sentimental than practical. More heat goes up the pipe, by far, than warms the interior. It has no useful place in an efficient camping vehicle. (MY opinion, folks. Flamers need not reply)

Have to disagree with such blanket statements, no intention to flame. Small wood stoves have been used in tight confines with relative safety for hundreds of years. Out west, you'd be hard pressed to find a sheep camp without one. Boats? Small cabins? It could easily be argued that propane and diesel systems are just as dangerous, if not worse. No need to transport flammable compressed gas, leaks, spills, mechanical failures etc. Also, efficiency isn't a real concern. Plenty of available wood. Frankly I'm surprised more expedition vehicles don't use one nowadays.
 

Gatsma

Adventurer
Enclosed stoves, yes. Open-hearth fireplaces, no. And I'm talking about the ones made to look like a brick fireplace to get the old-cabin feel. NOT PRACTICAL.
Propane and diesel CAN be dangerous when not PROPERLY VENTILATED, but that is a result of poor installation practice, not design. Anything made for an enclosed mobile vehicle should always be properly aspirated AND ventilated, meaning external feed air AND externally exhausted. The "fireplace" in its most common configuration does NOT qualify under those parameters. Keep open-hearth fireplaces in the old log cabins.
Gait is 100% right on this one; read his last paragraph above again and let it sink in.
 

gait

Explorer
to be specific, here's why I posted ... no great drama, no judgement, individual choice and all that - just a gentle reminder that open flames require ventilation. Open flame + inadequate ventilation = death. Some countries have a better understanding of adequate and are more used to providing ventilation. The catalytic heater caught my attention more than the fireplace. Fireplaces typically have flues so there's more chance fresh air will be drawn in from somewhere.

... though I would not have any windows that open .....

.... Now you have a sealed box that can't "leak" heat or sound, ......

.... You could easily heat a small box with a catalytic heater, a mini fireplace ....

apologies if I took it all too literally ... for a bit I wondered if it was tongue in cheek. :)

But just in case - hre's a random link to catalytic heaters with a bit about carbon monoxide when there's insufficient combustion air.
http://sierranevadaairstreams.org/owners-guide/living/catalyticheaters.html

As I said my outlook is coloured by my (unfortunate in this case) experiences.
 

Gatsma

Adventurer
As I said my outlook is coloured by my (unfortunate in this case) experiences.
As it is with me; heard of too many incidents of asphyxiation due to improper ventilation &/or installation, or plain misuse.
Forgive me if I came off a bit harsh, but these things are critical, to say the least.
 

dlh62c

Explorer
Have to disagree with such blanket statements, no intention to flame. Small wood stoves have been used in tight confines with relative safety for hundreds of years. Out west, you'd be hard pressed to find a sheep camp without one. Boats? Small cabins? It could easily be argued that propane and diesel systems are just as dangerous, if not worse. No need to transport flammable compressed gas, leaks, spills, mechanical failures etc. Also, efficiency isn't a real concern. Plenty of available wood. Frankly I'm surprised more expedition vehicles don't use one nowadays.

I concur!

I have my eye on a Kimberly Stove, but I'm having trouble paying the $3995.00 price tag.

Kimberly Stove in Alaska.
 

DzlToy

Explorer
To address the CO issues with a small, well sealed and insulated space, there will be a CO and/or CO2 monitor in place, as well as a small fresh air intake, likely hidden in a cabinet or under body storage box, under a bed, etc., so it does not compromise sound or heat insulation. Additionally, with a small space, you are likey not confined there for long (meals are prepared and eaten outside, etc) So it's more for sleeping and foul weather IMO, than to cocoon oneself in a 12 foot superinsulated box on the back of an FG and not come outside or open the door/window.

The $600 Dickinson Marine "twig stove" linked on the page above, is exactly the mini fireplace to which I referred. It would have no trouble heating a small well insulated space and if you were concerned about too much heat going up the chimney, you could always run the piping Russian style with a bit of extra work.
 

ersatzknarf

lost, but making time
Hi DT,
Glad you saw it :D
I think that their products are very nice :chef:

The $600 Dickinson Marine "twig stove" linked on the page above, is exactly the mini fireplace to which I referred. It would have no trouble heating a small well insulated space and if you were concerned about too much heat going up the chimney, you could always run the piping Russian style with a bit of extra work.
 

1aquaholic

Adventurer
So I'm probably over thinking this but it looks to me that R value in windows is very low, double pane around 2, and I want a lot of window area in my build so there isn't much point in paying more for a potentially weaker material in the walls to up the R value to 8. I'm back to thinking just a strait honeycomb wall with good heating and maybe A/C. Anyone have thoughts on this? Thanks

j
 

mhiscox

Expedition Leader
So I'm probably over thinking this but it looks to me that R value in windows is very low, double pane around 2, and I want a lot of window area in my build so there isn't much point in paying more for a potentially weaker material in the walls to up the R value to 8. I'm back to thinking just a strait honeycomb wall with good heating and maybe A/C. Anyone have thoughts on this?
My thought is that you're probably right for the Northwest climate. We need big windows because we're stuck in the cabin better than half the year, and the temperature extremes are not that great. I'd think differently if I was making a truck for the Southwest deserts, but in the Northwest, big window area trumps energy efficiency, in my humble opinion.

(FWIW, because our need for air conditioning is very occasional--maybe necessary for only two or three trips a year--I've gone to using portable AC units. Not the most elegant solution, but quieter than a rooftop unit and you eliminate 100 pounds of weight and drag high up on your roof. And the best part is that you leave it out of the truck for the forty weeks of the year you don't need it.)
 

gait

Explorer
heat loss calculator may be useful for "sensitivity analysis"
http://www.chromalox.com/resource-center/calculators/comfort-heater.aspx
sorry, its non-metric! :)

Not sure what sort of strength you are looking for in the walls. The sandwich panels get their strength from the skins, the sandwich material just keeps the skins apart. My bed base is same 23mm fibreglass pu foam as walls, supported only at edges. Double bed, two people. Inner sprung mattress. Still flat after a few years constant use. I have a hole in one wall where vehicle came together with a steel post and ripped the outer skin and foam. The floor needed extra skin thickness so foam didn't compress due to walking on it. Diy shower floor contouring used higher density foam under fibreglass. And so on.
 

dlh62c

Explorer
....and I want a lot of window area in my build..

You can let the window size and placement drive the internal design or you can let the internal design drive the size and the placement of the windows.

I'm back to thinking just a strait honeycomb wall.....

A strait honeycomb wall sounds great. How do you plan to attach four sides, a roof and a floor together?

This Blog might give you some insight as to what's involved. Just click on 'Newer Post' to follow the build process. SuperCamper
 
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LeishaShannon

Adventurer
img.jpg

You can see the thermal bridge effect here. Outside is ~23c , the inside of the camper is ~27c (no windows open), and the aluminium window frame that clamps around the window cutout conducts the heat from the sun straight into the camper heating the inside frame to 39c. It doesn't help that the frame is black!
 

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