Upgrading Alternator to charge house batteries faster

john61ct

Adventurer
max inrush of 5, not 6, C

Yes a "do not approach" max current safety spec is a whole 'nother topic, as is short-term peaks vs continuous.

Not something to actually worry about IMO so long as the battery is healthy (over SoH 80%) and ** voltages ** are being well regulated, and (maybe) temp sensors can isolate the bank, if you are being very conscientious, e.g. have kids sleeping over the bank
 

IdaSHO

IDACAMPER
As you will note from some of the comments above, you may have a greater need for that 75A than you realize.

Idling is very useful when you want to run the microwave and the battery is low, but it will not appreciably charge the bank. And the key thing is that you want those long hours of absorb charge, after you hit "full" charge, and most of us never idle the engine for four+ hours. This is where a good solar set up is a lifesaver. (And a bad one; one that does not allow a long absorb stage, can hurt you.)

The key point is to avoid chronic undercharge.


Uh, no.

Again, a solar array capable of 17-20 amps, and 20 amps of charging when the truck is running, we never need more.
That's literally less than 5 hours (at 20 amps) needed to (nearly) completely top off the house bank.
Sunny days, zero worries at all. Solar does the rest of the charge. 100% SOC is common, by mid-day.

The Victron BVM monitor proves that.

The ONLY time we need to even idle the truck is when we stay for more than a few days in one place, in the winter, panels covered in snow....
Even then we still have a second array of panels we could deploy on the ground. Its just easier to remote start the truck from the camper :ROFLMAO:
If the bank dips below 60%, we will run the truck for half an hour each morning. This typically keeps things about 50%
Once back on the road, its all gravy.

We've had this setup since 2012/2013. First set of deep cycles lasted nearly 6 years.
And I'm pretty sure running them dry and letting them freeze is really what did them in, not age and charge/discharge cycles or SOC.
You do have to try pretty hard to destroy true wet deep cycles. :LOL:
 

john61ct

Adventurer
Again, you are **nowhere near** Full going from 50% or even 30-40% SoC

in only 5 hours.

Nothing to do with amps "available" from your source once you get over the minimum required.

A 500A source might get you to Full in 7hrs 20min, while a 75A source takes twenty minutes longer, maybe 30.

That is just the nature of lead batteries, no matter how high the CAR in early Bulk stage, once you hit CV/Absorb, the actual current accepted goes way way down every hour after that,

but you can't stop charging until you hit that endAmps spec.

That is, if you are wanting to actually get good longevity by regularly getting to 100%.

If you cannot do that, or don't want to bother

and accept you will need to replace the bank more frequently

that is your conscious informed decision.

But it's a shame to just assume the source stop-charge algorithm works accurately, never adjust things just out of ignorance.
 

john61ct

Adventurer
The Victron BVM monitor proves that
Only if you know how to calibrate it, keep adjusting it for changing conditions, and frequently "reset" it's 100% SoC point every few cycles.

**You** are the one that needs to wait for 100%, measure endAmps, and **tell the BM** when you get there.

It will then be within 6-8% accuracy at best, for 3-6 cycles, at most.

The Merlin SmartGauge gets to 2-4% and stays there, without any of those ongoing shenanigans.

Trust but verify.
 

DiploStrat

Expedition Leader
Read and understand john61ct's comments. They are correct and, FWIW, are the same as the Lifeline tech manual. And I'll bet a hot latte that the other decent manufacturers are about the same, with adjustments for AGM vs. wet cell.

My point is that I damaged the AGMs on my truck as I assumed (silly me!) that the Go Power! solar controller had a similar profile to the Blue Sea controller that I had on my previous truck. The key difference here is the long absorb stage. If your solar controller is set to give you on the order of one hour of absorb for every 100Ah of lead acid battery, then you will probably have great battery life - all other things considered.

The Go Power!, much like the infamous Progressive Dynamics converter, hits the target voltage, in this case around 14.4v but then drops to float within half an hour or so. As john61ct points out, this is nowhere near long enough to drop the charge rate to the target of 0.5A per 100Ah of bank; in my case, around 3.0A.

So, if you have lots of sun (as you probably will in Idaho), and your solar controller is set to hold the absorb voltage until the charge rate drops to 0.5A per 100Ah, then you are probably fine. Just don't run 'em dry!
 

john61ct

Adventurer
target of 0.5A per 100Ah of bank; in my case, around 3.0A.

hold the absorb voltage until the charge rate drops to 0.5A per 100Ah, then you are probably fine
Yes that is the goal for many battery models, but check the data sheets or tech support if yours are different.

> one hour of absorb for every 100Ah of lead acid battery

That is less canonical.

The key is **user custom** adjustability of AHT, takes trial and error, and sometimes needs adjusting with changing conditions. Going a bit too long on average is better than too short sometimes.

> Just don't run 'em dry

Result of **much** longer than "a bit" too long, very very rarely the problem, but yes that is a key advantage of FLA over sealed, just add more water.

______
Note that there are (more expensive) SCs that you add a proprietary BM / remote module, to terminate charge cycle (drop to float) based directly on tapering current hitting your chosen endAmps spec.

So Absorb time is different every cycle, perfect 100% SoC finish every time.

Whizbang Jr being a classic example.

Victron BMV used to do it integrating with the old BT modules, but a firmware update removed tgat feature years ago.

Check with their tech forum if it ever got otherwise re-implemented
 

DiploStrat

Expedition Leader
Yes that is the goal for many battery models, but check the data sheets or tech support if yours are different.

That is a quote from the Lifeline manual. Other brands/formulations may vary, of course.

> one hour of absorb for every 100Ah of lead acid battery

That is less canonical.

True. This was given to me by a tech at AMSolar who swore, on holy relics, that he had gotten that number from the engineers in the back room at Lifeline, not the sales types. I have used it for years. The Lifeline manual doesn't give a specific absorb time, only the desired end state charge of 0.5A per 100Ah. Makes sense, when you think about it. The Magnum, however, asks for an Absorb time, so I use the one hour per 100Ah rule.

...
Note that there are (more expensive) SCs that you add a proprietary BM / remote module, to terminate charge cycle (drop to float) based directly on tapering current hitting your chosen endAmps spec.

So Absorb time is different every cycle, perfect 100% SoC finish every time.

THAT would be perfect and might tend to get better with each cycle.
 

IdaSHO

IDACAMPER
Only if you know how to calibrate it, keep adjusting it for changing conditions, and frequently "reset" it's 100% SoC point every few cycles.

**You** are the one that needs to wait for 100%, measure endAmps, and **tell the BM** when you get there.

It will then be within 6-8% accuracy at best, for 3-6 cycles, at most.

The Merlin SmartGauge gets to 2-4% and stays there, without any of those ongoing shenanigans.

Trust but verify.

Its regularly calibrated, if anything on the conservative side of things.
I never pretend I have 100% healthy batteries ;)

Every time we are home for more than a few weeks, appliances are shut down, and solar is allowed to fully charge the bank.
Only then do I recalibrate.
 

IdaSHO

IDACAMPER
Again, you are **nowhere near** Full going from 50% or even 30-40% SoC

in only 5 hours.

Everything is relative. What do you consider nearly full?

The way we roll, 80% is what I consider nearly full. Especially in the winter.
Summer time with good solar we have zero problems hitting 95%+SOC every day.
 

IdaSHO

IDACAMPER
That is, if you are wanting to actually get good longevity by regularly getting to 100%.

If you cannot do that, or don't want to bother

and accept you will need to replace the bank more frequently

that is your conscious informed decision.

But it's a shame to just assume the source stop-charge algorithm works accurately, never adjust things just out of ignorance.

Ignorance? Like you ignoring its less than $300 worth of bank that lasts 6 years without perfect care?

Sure. :ROFLMAO:
 

john61ct

Adventurer
Was not in any way referencing you personally, no idea who you are, no idea why you would take my post as an insult, just sharing info in a public forum.

There is no shame in ignorance anyway, it's a specialized topic area, and I am happy to learn new things every day!

And yes in your case of course that's fine, your rig your call.

Others may have $3000 worth and feel extra effort is worthwhile!

And finally, you think six years is a lot? It's not, lots of quality FLA deep cycling banks last double that.

EoL being defined by industry as 80% SoH, but non mission-critical consumers might push to 70% or even lower, so long as you are aware of the increased risk of unexpected "events" sometimes dangerous ones.
 

john61ct

Adventurer
Everything is relative. What do you consider nearly full?
Full means 100% Full, as discussed above look at the specs in the batt mfg data sheet.

endAmps at 0.005C for most.

Deka FLA is "Current change over 1 hour period of less than 0.1A", but that is an absolute amps delta for just one unit, usually ~200Ah

All of the good manufacturers have well qualified tech support staff you can discuss your specific issues.

Even 98% might be over an hour away from 100%, and the difference to longevity is major.

PSOC abuse is the #1 cause of shortened lifespan.

But as I stated, up to you if you care or not, if you don't, then just ignore the topic.
 

john61ct

Adventurer
Good reference posts from MaineSail

Everything there on DC electrickery is well worth parsing closely, everytime I re-read his stuff the more I understand it.

AGM charge cycle

Battery Monitors
 

IdaSHO

IDACAMPER
Full means 100% Full

Don't dodge the question.

Ill ask again...

Everything is relative. What do you consider nearly full?

The way we roll, 80% is what I consider nearly full. Especially in the winter.
Summer time with good solar we have zero problems hitting 95%+SOC every day.
 

john61ct

Adventurer
OMG. How long is a piece of string?

My point, again, is if you "cannot" or choose not to

ensure getting to 100% Full at least once a week, ideally "most cycles"

then that PSOC abuse will drastically shorten lifespan.

Getting to 80% or 85% or 90% will not change much.

The impact of stopping charging (dropping to Float) at 98.5% is still very significant, compared to 100%.

Many members are not aware just how critical that one care factor is, and their situation may allow them to correct the issue relatively cheaply and easily

for example reading the manual, finding out how to adjust AHT, getting their ammeter out and increasing the profile until they see their desired endAmps is getting reached.

Either it does or it doesn't. Yes, C-rate is relative, but only to Ah capacity, not anyone's opinion.

That's my point, that is all.
 

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