UCE3 - Utah Cruiser Expedition 3
- Thread starter Box Rocket
- Start date
Box Rocket
Well-known member
There are plenty of places where I can share trip reports free of criticism when there is no controversy to begin with. For most of you I'm glad you're enjoying the report. Next time I'll post up more photos of my expensive camp chairs (which I haven't bought for some reason) and my gourmet food (i.e. donuts and diet coke) that I made while camping at the KOA.
cruiserdude80
Observer
I am curious, how do you figure out what roads will keep you off pavement for most of your adventure? Do you look at satellite images from like Google Maps, is it local knowledge, guide books? What is a good resource(s) for planning a trip like this?
I like the way you have set up your Tacoma and Land Cruiser. They are well thought out vehicles.
I like the way you have set up your Tacoma and Land Cruiser. They are well thought out vehicles.
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cruiseroutfit
Supporting Sponsor: Cruiser Outfitters
3? I can count more like 3 dozen.
To the thread's recent direction (misdirection?). Were there wet areas? Of course, mud was flooding across roads throughout Southern Utah to the point it was being cleared off with snow plows. Did we do lasting damage to routes? absolutely not. It's easy to cherry-pick a handful of pictures from a 1000 mile trip and put them in whichever context you want.
Let's take for example the Bullfrog-Notom Road in which was highlighted by one of roverrocks examples of non-Tread Lightly, I'd challenge anyone not be ankle deep in the sand that is present when not wet. Could we have turned back when we approached the short sections of mud sure, but when does the impact of turning around 6 vehicles and back-tracking x miles present more of an impact than simply driving through some mud that won't show signs of ruts by the time it dries? Not to mention the fact the counties, BLM and state were lining up to re-grade many of these roads back to passenger car status. Were the conditions ideal? I think we can all agree they were not.
Tread Lightly isn't a black or white, cut and dry subject, and neither is ones personal definition of an Outdoor Ethic. One must make decisions based on their experience of the area, the land use situation in the area and the overall impact they will have throughout the area. I've seen the Bullfrog-Notom Road flash and wash out no fewer than a half dozen times in my short life and it will flash many, many more. I do appreciate that we can have this discussion and if nothing else it serves as a reminder that we all need to be doing our part to keep public lands open to the public for years to come, through respectful use, stewardship and action when lands are threatened.
And for what it is worth, Wayne County wants to pave this very route (yes, the one we are arguing about over temporary ruts in the sand). Not at all related to the fact there are ruts but the fact mother nature washes it out so frequently and the deep sand prevents motor-home and boat traffic to and from Powell along with the Burr Trail Switchbacks. All are facing the same threat, pavement... not closure.
Roverrocks mentioned SUWA, funny not to long ago I met with SUWA's Executive Director and Field Director in Juan Palma's office (BLM Director for the State of Utah) and discussed these very routes. It wasn't ruts and washouts we were there to discuss, rather pavement... turns out we had more in common with SUWA in this scenario than most would believe. So when SUWA uses these pictures to close routes, I'll hear about it first
Enough on that... Great report Adam!
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RRCamel
New member
An awesome adventure , I'm from Spain and the part I could do not live a crossing that one-tenth of that is enough, and I speak only for travel on the tracks. I am one who prefers to turn to get out of a road , like the friends I go out , especially damage we could cause , come on, we respect nature as much as possible . Yesterday I pass the link to a friend to see the pictures and talk after we reach the same conclusion, we feel envy as we say here how they can enjoy nature , freedom they have. Where I live the laws prohibiting go in groups of more than four cars can not run on the tracks if you use tires more than 35 inches , the depth of the lug of the tire may not exceed an inch and a half, the winch can only be use in case of emergency, if the path gets dark during camping is prohibited when driving on snow tracks are prohibited , and endless prohibitions over the rule of our local governments to prohibit , regulate not ....... ..........., Just back to say that was an awesome story and apologize because my English is very bad and I have to use a translator.
dmc
Adventurer
I do most/all of the planning for the UCE trips. For me it's first hand knowledge, then maps, then Google earth. Oddly this is the exact opposite of how I do 98% of my other trips where I just think of a region of the southwest where I haven't been, head to that region, then find a dirt road and start wandering. I rarely plan beyond that. All I need to be happy is a dirt road I've never been on before. The more difficult part is coming up with the concept to make it more than just wandering. Our group has a lot of experience so it needs to be something intriguing and unique. In 04 the first UCE was connecting all the National Parks in Utah (and Grand Canyon) via dirt. UCE2 was Corner to Corner (http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/48929-Utah-Cruiser-Expedition-2010) and this was obviously low to high. My first trips like this were width (solo) and length (with one other truck) of Utah on dirt. Once I had those under my belt it became very easy. We are lucky in that Utah has extremely diverse terrain so it's easy to build an awesome trip. My original idea for UCE3 was see if we could travel 800 miles on dirt and average 9k feet elevation. That idea fell apart when it dawned on me all the roads would be the same. Not as enjoyable as traveling through different eco systems.
So in a nutshell.
1- Have a theme or concept
2- Get the right people for the trip
3- Rely on what you know/first hand knowledge
4- Maps
5- Google earth
Box Rocket
Well-known member
3? I can count more like 3 dozen.
To the thread's recent direction (misdirection?). Were there wet areas? Of course, mud was flooding across roads throughout Southern Utah to the point it was being cleared off with snow plows. Did we do lasting damage to routes? absolutely not. It's easy to cherry-pick a handful of pictures from a 1000 mile trip and put them in whichever context you want.
Let's take for example the Bullfrog-Notom Road in which was highlighted by one of roverrocks examples of non-Tread Lightly, I'd challenge anyone not be ankle deep in the sand that is present when not wet. Could we have turned back when we approached the short sections of mud sure, but when does the impact of turning around 6 vehicles and back-tracking x miles present more of an impact than simply driving through some mud that won't show signs of ruts by the time it dries? Not to mention the fact the counties, BLM and state were lining up to re-grade many of these roads back to passenger car status. Were the conditions ideal? I think we can all agree they were not.
Tread Lightly isn't a black or white, cut and dry subject, and neither is ones personal definition of an Outdoor Ethic. One must make decisions based on their experience of the area, the land use situation in the area and the overall impact they will have throughout the area. I've seen the Bullfrog-Notom Road flash and wash out no fewer than a half dozen times in my short life and it will flash many, many more. I do appreciate that we can have this discussion and if nothing else it serves as a reminder that we all need to be doing our part to keep public lands open to the public for years to come, through respectful use, stewardship and action when lands are threatened.
And for what it is worth, Wayne County wants to pave this very route (yes, the one we are arguing about over temporary ruts in the sand). Not at all related to the fact there are ruts but the fact mother nature washes it out so frequently and the deep sand prevents motor-home and boat traffic to and from Powell along with the Burr Trail Switchbacks. All are facing the same threat, pavement... not closure.
Roverrocks mentioned SUWA, funny not to long ago I met with SUWA's Executive Director and Field Director in Juan Palma's office (BLM Director for the State of Utah) and discussed these very routes. It wasn't ruts and washouts we were there to discuss, rather pavement... turns out we had more in common with SUWA in this scenario than most would believe. So when SUWA uses these pictures to close routes, I'll hear about it first
Enough on that... Great report Adam!
I appreciate the response Kurt.
Nature lover
New member
Enjoyed the trip report and pics. I think y'all treaded as light as you could considering the road conditions you encountered. Please continue to share your adventures.
Neat trip. I too had concerns as I browsed through the report and pictures. After reading all the responses I overall feel better about it. The muddy roads, yeah, they'll get graded. Rebuilding roads across washouts- if you didn't, someone else would have.
I think you legitimately did give fodder to those trying to close roads to 4x4 access. If one really wants to nitpick tread lightly, then overall you didnt. The pictures from the top of Mt. Baldy(I think? your high point) The perspective of the picture makes it seem that where your vehicles are parked may not necessarily be intended for vehicles to drive on. Going around the first BIG washout, and driving in and out of a stream bed... the situation sucked, I dont have a better idea, and maybe the stream bed you used instead was meant as a sneak route, but without being there and seeing it from your perspective, it seems you left the trail to make another one. The same with going down the mountain on the ATV trail. Isn't that just widening a trail not intended for full size vehicles? Pulling off the trail at Bolder Mountain to have lunch? You may ask where you should have gone, I don't know, but probably not drive 6 vehicles onto the grass. Lastly the tourists. Yeah, what can be done, they messed up, and you did what you had to do to help. Did you really need to drive 2 vehicles off the road though?
I think someone mentioned locale, and thats about spot on. I drive Jeep tours in the San Juans during the summer months, and each trip I always see some ******* who feels that the hundreds of miles of off road networks just isn't enough for them, and they need to drive off and park off the road, when there are many, many ample spots to pull off, congregate and camp. It makes me hypersensitive(and I can admit that) to seeing people abuse our backroads and trails.
Do I think you abused them, no. But if I drove on/through and parked on some of the places you did, I certainly wouldn't have posted those pictures online to save myself the headache of "maybe"- especially if I was representing an organization or company. I think perspective makes a big difference too. I wasn't there, I can only assume from your pictures, and they don't always tell the full story. Im not trying to attack you, but just make you aware that other people have different expectations and perceptions. I think the discussion is good, because overall, I think you guys did alright, but I have concerns, and I think some great points on both sides have been made. I dont have kids, but if I did, I certainly would have used the situations as a learning experience to them. "We're driving down this muddy road because there's no other way. We're not going to shred up and down it and do doughnuts, but minimize the impact we have on it."
I think you legitimately did give fodder to those trying to close roads to 4x4 access. If one really wants to nitpick tread lightly, then overall you didnt. The pictures from the top of Mt. Baldy(I think? your high point) The perspective of the picture makes it seem that where your vehicles are parked may not necessarily be intended for vehicles to drive on. Going around the first BIG washout, and driving in and out of a stream bed... the situation sucked, I dont have a better idea, and maybe the stream bed you used instead was meant as a sneak route, but without being there and seeing it from your perspective, it seems you left the trail to make another one. The same with going down the mountain on the ATV trail. Isn't that just widening a trail not intended for full size vehicles? Pulling off the trail at Bolder Mountain to have lunch? You may ask where you should have gone, I don't know, but probably not drive 6 vehicles onto the grass. Lastly the tourists. Yeah, what can be done, they messed up, and you did what you had to do to help. Did you really need to drive 2 vehicles off the road though?
I think someone mentioned locale, and thats about spot on. I drive Jeep tours in the San Juans during the summer months, and each trip I always see some ******* who feels that the hundreds of miles of off road networks just isn't enough for them, and they need to drive off and park off the road, when there are many, many ample spots to pull off, congregate and camp. It makes me hypersensitive(and I can admit that) to seeing people abuse our backroads and trails.
Do I think you abused them, no. But if I drove on/through and parked on some of the places you did, I certainly wouldn't have posted those pictures online to save myself the headache of "maybe"- especially if I was representing an organization or company. I think perspective makes a big difference too. I wasn't there, I can only assume from your pictures, and they don't always tell the full story. Im not trying to attack you, but just make you aware that other people have different expectations and perceptions. I think the discussion is good, because overall, I think you guys did alright, but I have concerns, and I think some great points on both sides have been made. I dont have kids, but if I did, I certainly would have used the situations as a learning experience to them. "We're driving down this muddy road because there's no other way. We're not going to shred up and down it and do doughnuts, but minimize the impact we have on it."
stolenheron
Explorer
2 posts in 2 years? with the second being advice... hmm. and yes, i know. post count doesnt not = experience, qualifications, knowledge, etc. but it is just odd to see someone normally quiet speak up in a thread with a long time member who we know has the experience and knowledge.
btw, been to durango, co many times (both for the snow and the for the summer as well). even did some wheeling there in an '87 Range Rover Classic.
btw, been to durango, co many times (both for the snow and the for the summer as well). even did some wheeling there in an '87 Range Rover Classic.
