Tundra vs F150

Dalko43

Explorer
I wouldn't bet on it... the 3.0 has 250 hp @ 3250 rpm and 440 lbft @ 1750 rpm. The 3.5 has 375 hp @ 5000 rpm and 470 lbft @ 3000 rpm.

The 3.5 makes roughly the same HP in the lower RPMs as the 3.0 and then makes quite a bit more as the RPMs rise. While the 3.0 makes its TQ down low... that's literailly all it has to offer.
I think you need to refresh yourself on the horsepower equation: HP = (Torque * RPM)/5252.

I haven't seen anyone do calculations specifically for the 3.0 v6 diesel, but if its making more torque at a lower RPM compared to the 3.5l ecoboost, its likely making more horsepower at that lower RPM as well.

The baby power stroke also has about 1,000 less payload due to the weight of the motor. When you add in all the cost, the 3.0 is the most expensive option to drive per mile.
The 3.0l diesel doesn't way 1,000lbs more than the 3.5l ecoboost. Ford could likely boost the payload if they desired to do so. Cost is relative. You might pay a little more for the 3.0l diesel in the shortrun...you might quickly recoup the added costs if you're doing lots of highway driving and/or towing.

Though I will say that I find the cost argument less and less logical in this day and age. People think nothing of modifying the crap out of their F-150 with bigger tires, lifts, ECU tunes....all of which degrade mpg's. Or people will daily drive gasoline Ram 3500's or F-350's to and from their office jobs. But those same people will swear away diesels because of the added "costs." Makes no sense...
 
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FJR Colorado

Explorer
I really don't know how anybody can be a Ford fanboy. It seems to me that in my 40+ some odd years of dealing with vehicles, that they have ALWAYS sucked. My family had a few Fords and they never failed to fail.

GM really sucks (now) and so does Jeep/Chrysler. But at least those brands had their Halcyon Days. I honestly can't ever recall a time when it was like "yeah, Ford's are decent"... not now, not ever. GM? Mopar? Yes, they had times of great products (even if those days are long gone).

A few years ago, I took my daughters on a fantastic 10 day trip to Yellowstone and the surrounding area. On the way back, we spent one last night in Lander, WY before returning home. In the hotel hot tub, some really nice lady was practically crying. She explained that their whole vacation had been ruined by the failings of their brand-spankin' new Ford F-150. It had failed coming up from Texas. The Ford dealer in WY thought that had it fixed only for them to get 1 day out and having to be towed again. They finally rented a Jeep to see Yellowstone for a day or 2 but the vacation was ruined. I politely offered that they should get a Toyota... Since my 2006 Tundra with 130K+ miles had just gone over 2,600 miles without a burp....

I rent cars almost every week and am in the National plan whereby you pick whatever is available. Once in a while, I'll pick an F-150 if one is sitting there. I can't begin to tell you how dis-impressed I am. But hey, if Ford lovers love them, that's A-OK. Millions of people go to McDonald's every day.
 

Dalko43

Explorer
Fanboy opinions? So, because it's your narrative it is therefore fact?

And yeah, the 22RE is slow as hell. And old. Just like the 3VZ that you hate so much. FROM THIRTY YEARS AGO. Shocking how there's an entire performance industry built around them, and you can still buy them for a reasonable price...
It's also shocking how Toyota naysayers have to dig back into the archives in order to make their case, which is a very shaky case to begin with.

I guess we should pretend that Ford's 6.4 and 6.0l diesels and early 3.5l ecoboosts didn't have notorious reputations for breakdown's...instead we should lambast Toyota because of a mediocre engine they produced 30 years ago?

Honestly, it's not fleet sales and pricing that drives Ford sales...it's that there will always be people who buy Ford's because they're Ford fans. For the longest time, that mentality prevailed in the car segment as well; people avoided buying the "imports" because they weren't American-made. Eventually, the domestic OEM's screwed up their car offerings so badly that they lost a large portion of their market share to those suspicious "imports."
 

Tex68w

Beach Bum
I really don't know how anybody can be a Ford fanboy. It seems to me that in my 40+ some odd years of dealing with vehicles, that they have ALWAYS sucked. My family had a few Fords and they never failed to fail.

GM really sucks (now) and so does Jeep/Chrysler. But at least those brands had their Halcyon Days. I honestly can't ever recall a time when it was like "yeah, Ford's are decent"... not now, not ever. GM? Mopar? Yes, they had times of great products (even if those days are long gone).

A few years ago, I took my daughters on a fantastic 10 day trip to Yellowstone and the surrounding area. On the way back, we spent one last night in Lander, WY before returning home. In the hotel hot tub, some really nice lady was practically crying. She explained that their whole vacation had been ruined by the failings of their brand-spankin' new Ford F-150. It had failed coming up from Texas. The Ford dealer in WY thought that had it fixed only for them to get 1 day out and having to be towed again. They finally rented a Jeep to see Yellowstone for a day or 2 but the vacation was ruined. I politely offered that they should get a Toyota... Since my 2006 Tundra with 130K+ miles had just gone over 2,600 miles without a burp....

I rent cars almost every week and am in the National plan whereby you pick whatever is available. Once in a while, I'll pick an F-150 if one is sitting there. I can't begin to tell you how dis-impressed I am. But hey, if Ford lovers love them, that's A-OK. Millions of people go to McDonald's every day.

Look, everyone has their preference or predisposed biases, some rational, most emotional. I have owned lots of Ford's and Toyota's, at least 10 Ford's and we are now on our sixth Toyota and fourth Lexus and this spans from 1995 MY to the present. Pre-2010/2011 I would agree that Ford was a bit of a turd for the most part, that was back when GM was on top of their game, those tables have flipped in the present and GM is absolute crap for the most part now IMHO. I think most would agree that Toyota has gotten stagnant in recent years from a lack of innovation and advancing their designs and tech, but that's also a bit expected from the brand and part of the reason why they have such good resale and reliability, it's a double edged sword in today's market and with the tech driven masses now days it appears that Toyota will likely have to adjust to survive. With all of the new model updates due to drop in the next few years (Tundra, Sequoia, 4Runner, Land Cruiser, maybe Tacoma) it's safe to say that Toyota might be making some big moves in order to keep up with those market demands, or at least we all hope so.

I can't help but notice your signature line and it's fair to say you have a bias as well and your inability to see any possible way that someone could be loyal to another brand shows your bias even more. I'll agree that Toyota as a whole is usually a safer bet in the long run than any domestic, only a fool would disagree, but everyone's experience is different and there are people out there (on this very board even) that have had horrid luck with Toyota's as well. If it's my money Ford gets the nod on a half-ton truck, the Tundra is stale and a dozen years old, the new model can't come soon enough. Toyota is slipping the mid-size game since the third Gen Tacoma debuted and the competition is catching up and even surpassing them in some ways. Toyota doesn't even offer a HD truck so that argument is pointless. I'd take your rental car seat of the pants reviews with a grain of salt, no matter the make, if it's in a rental fleet it has been abused in every way and poorly maintained, most owners don't treat their personal vehicles with such disrespect.

At the end of the day people buy cars for different reasons and a lot of consumers aren't basing their decision off of what might be the most cost effective over the next decade or the most reliable. There are buyers that simply buy off of passion and emotion, there are those that are tech focused and live for the latest gizmos, some buy for status and recognition, some on price and financing options, and others buy based off of spec sheets, reviews and/or getting the proper tool for the job at hand. I can't fault anyone for spending their money in any of those ways because it's their money, not mine. At the end of the day there are lots of options out there and they all exist because there's a market demand for it and these companies wouldn't survive if people weren't buying their products. All manufacturers have the perks and their problems as well as their day in the sun, you can't stay on top for forever and that includes Toyota.
 

Jnich77

Expedition Leader
I really don't know how anybody can be a Ford fanboy. It seems to me that in my 40+ some odd years of dealing with vehicles, that they have ALWAYS sucked. My family had a few Fords and they never failed to fail.

GM really sucks (now) and so does Jeep/Chrysler. But at least those brands had their Halcyon Days. I honestly can't ever recall a time when it was like "yeah, Ford's are decent"... not now, not ever. GM? Mopar? Yes, they had times of great products (even if those days are long gone).

A few years ago, I took my daughters on a fantastic 10 day trip to Yellowstone and the surrounding area. On the way back, we spent one last night in Lander, WY before returning home. In the hotel hot tub, some really nice lady was practically crying. She explained that their whole vacation had been ruined by the failings of their brand-spankin' new Ford F-150. It had failed coming up from Texas. The Ford dealer in WY thought that had it fixed only for them to get 1 day out and having to be towed again. They finally rented a Jeep to see Yellowstone for a day or 2 but the vacation was ruined. I politely offered that they should get a Toyota... Since my 2006 Tundra with 130K+ miles had just gone over 2,600 miles without a burp....

I rent cars almost every week and am in the National plan whereby you pick whatever is available. Once in a while, I'll pick an F-150 if one is sitting there. I can't begin to tell you how dis-impressed I am. But hey, if Ford lovers love them, that's A-OK. Millions of people go to McDonald's every day.
Oh...oh... can I play the anecdotal game too: I have owned 4 - F150's, 1 -F350, 1 - Mustang, and a Fusion Hybrid. My two previous work trucks were F150's..... ya know what... not a one of them gave me problems. They never "failed" and aside from normal wear and tear I didn't have to work on them.

My Fords were no less reliable than my two Toyotas or four Nissans.
 

Dalko43

Explorer
I think most would agree that Toyota has gotten stagnant in recent years from a lack of innovation and advancing their designs and tech, but that's also a bit expected from the brand and part of the reason why they have such good resale and reliability, it's a double edged sword in today's market and with the tech driven masses now days it appears that Toyota will likely have to adjust to survive. With all of the new model updates due to drop in the next few years (Tundra, Sequoia, 4Runner, Land Cruiser, maybe Tacoma) it's safe to say that Toyota might be making some big moves in order to keep up with those market demands, or at least we all hope so.
I think your assessment of Toyota's current market performance and future viability are way off.

Toyota North America is currently selling more trucks combined (Tundra's, 4runner's, Tacoma's) than it ever did in years past. It's Tacoma and 4runner sales for 2018 set an all-time high, and while the Tundra's sales for 2018 aren't as high as they were in 2006-2007, they're still selling more now than they were 8-9 years ago. So the idea that Toyota's lack of change and innovation is threatening their market share is unfounded. Also, the idea that Toyota's vehicles haven't changed is unfounded. Even the Tundra, for as old as the underlying platform is, has seen changes and improvements over the years. And arguably, it's that tried-and-true formula that has enabled its sales figures to consistently increase over the last 8-9 years.

Toyota will definitely make changes to some of its older models (4runner, Tundra) in the coming years. But they have no need to make "big moves" in order to keep up with any demands or competitors. People buy Toyota's because they're reliable and they have good resale value...so long as Toyota doesn't violate either of those two principles, Toyota will continue to sell its 4x4's. These trucks have never been the best-in-class at anything, and they never will be.


I can't help but notice your signature line and it's fair to say you have a bias as well and your inability to see any possible way that someone could be loyal to another brand shows your bias even more. I'll agree that Toyota as a whole is usually a safer bet in the long run than any domestic, only a fool would disagree, but everyone's experience is different and there are people out there (on this very board even) that have had horrid luck with Toyota's as well. If it's my money Ford gets the nod on a half-ton truck, the Tundra is stale and a dozen years old, the new model can't come soon enough. Toyota is slipping the mid-size game since the third Gen Tacoma debuted and the competition is catching up and even surpassing them in some ways. Toyota doesn't even offer a HD truck so that argument is pointless. I'd take your rental car seat of the pants reviews with a grain of salt, no matter the make, if it's in a rental fleet it has been abused in every way and poorly maintained, most owners don't treat their personal vehicles with such disrespect.
People keep saying things about the Tundra: it's "stale," "old," "outdated." Yet I never hear one specific example of a how its age is actually hindering its performance. It has a torquey engine, good brakes, a huge fuel tank, adjustable headlights, an integrated brake-controller, heated seats, and bluetooth. It drives well and handles a load...what else are you looking for in a truck? If you want to gucci up your truck with the latest and greatest tech features and amenities, get a F-150. But you can't set there with a straight face and tell me that the other gasoline 1/2 tons have a substantial performance advantage over the Tundra...they might look more pretty, but that's about it.

As for the Tacoma being surpassed by other midsized trucks, I'm not sure what you're basing that off of. Toyota sold over 245k Tacoma's last year. The next closest midsized competitor (Colorado) came in at 168k...not even close by my count. We could sit here and guess where the Ranger and Gladiator will fall within those sales trends over the next years....but that would only amount to speculation. The Colorado, Ranger and Gladiator do offer a greater diversity of engine options, but the Tacoma, for all of its faults, is still considered the benchmark in the midsized segment....Toyota hasn't lost any ground within that market segment, rather the consumer base has grown as of late.
 
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vanmichel

New member
People keep saying things about the Tundra: it's "stale," "old," "outdated." Yet I never hear one specific example of a how its age is actually hindering its performance. It has a torquey engine, good brakes, a huge fuel tank, adjustable headlights, an integrated brake-controller, heated seats, and bluetooth. It drives well and handles a load...what else are you looking for in a truck? If you want to gucci up your truck with the latest and greatest tech features and amenities, get a F-150. But you can't set there with a straight face and tell me that the other gasoline 1/2 tons have a substantial performance advantage over the Tundra...they might look more pretty, but that's about it.
Really? You can't think of ONE example? How about fuel mileage? Tacomas get worse gas mileage than other brands full-size truck lines. Not to mention the screw up with the new transmission in the Tacoma. The Tundra on the other hand is lucky to see 15 mpg while Ford, RAM, and GM are all around the 22 mark with diesel options capable of closer to 30 mpg.

You even note that Toyota is behind on tech features and amenities.

Toyota has realiability. That's what keeps people coming back. But lets not act like every other manufacturer's product is garbage when it comes to reliability as well. There are plenty of older domestic trucks on the market with hundreds of thousands of miles.
 

Jnich77

Expedition Leader
People keep saying things about the Tundra: it's "stale," "old," "outdated." Yet I never hear one specific example of a how its age is actually hindering its performance. It has a torquey engine, good brakes, a huge fuel tank, adjustable headlights, an integrated brake-controller, heated seats, and bluetooth. It drives well and handles a load...what else are you looking for in a truck? If you want to gucci up your truck with the latest and greatest tech features and amenities, get a F-150. But you can't set there with a straight face and tell me that the other gasoline 1/2 tons have a substantial performance advantage over the Tundra...they might look more pretty, but that's about it.

Well let's see:

My 2017 F150 tows better than my first or second generation Tundra ever did, has better brakes, rides better, its quieter, it handles better, has more interior room, gets substantially better fuel economy, insursnce is less, and cost thousands less to buy.

In fact, other than sounding better when I hit the happy peddle, the Tundra did nothing better than my F150. The Tundra was a great truck when the second generation was released.... and hasn't improved since.
 

Tex68w

Beach Bum
I think your assessment of Toyota's current market performance and future viability are way off.

Toyota North America is currently selling more trucks combined (Tundra's, 4runner's, Tacoma's) than it ever did in years past. It's Tacoma and 4runner sales for 2018 set an all-time high, and while the Tundra's sales for 2018 aren't as high as they were in 2006-2007, they're still selling more now than they were 8-9 years ago. So the idea that Toyota's lack of change and innovation is threatening their market share is unfounded. Also, the idea that Toyota's vehicles haven't changed is unfounded. Even the Tundra, for as old as the underlying platform is, has seen changes and improvements over the years. And arguably, it's that tried-and-true formula that has enabled its sales figures to consistently increase over the last 8-9 years.

Toyota will definitely make changes to some of its older models (4runner, Tundra) in the coming years. But they have no need to make "big moves" in order to keep up with any demands or competitors. People buy Toyota's because they're reliable and they have good resale value...so long as Toyota doesn't violate either of those two principles, Toyota will continue to sell its 4x4's. These trucks have never been the best-in-class at anything, and they never will be.




People keep saying things about the Tundra: it's "stale," "old," "outdated." Yet I never hear one specific example of a how its age is actually hindering its performance. It has a torquey engine, good brakes, a huge fuel tank, adjustable headlights, an integrated brake-controller, heated seats, and bluetooth. It drives well and handles a load...what else are you looking for in a truck? If you want to gucci up your truck with the latest and greatest tech features and amenities, get a F-150. But you can't set there with a straight face and tell me that the other gasoline 1/2 tons have a substantial performance advantage over the Tundra...they might look more pretty, but that's about it.

As for the Tacoma being surpassed by other midsized trucks, I'm not sure what you're basing that off of. Toyota sold over 245k Tacoma's last year. The next closest midsized competitor (Colorado) came in at 168k...not even close by my count. We could sit here and guess where the Ranger and Gladiator will fall within those sales trends over the next years....but that would only amount to speculation. The Colorado, Ranger and Gladiator do offer a greater diversity of engine options, but the Tacoma, for all of its faults, is still considered the benchmark in the midsized segment....Toyota hasn't lost any ground within that market segment, rather the consumer base has grown as of late.

I expected you of all people to take my post personally, it's par for the course in every thread you're involved in, when it comes to Toyota's you're a known quantity nevertheless. You made the point in your rebuttal that basically solidifies why "a large portion" of people buy a Ford over a Toyota, they want the bling, the flashy, the latest gadgets and tech. We live in a "Me" generation/era and catching the approval and attention of others is high on the list of many. It's sad that we live in a world where most care so much about what others think when in the end none of that really matters, but it be that way. I never said that the Tundra was a bad vehicle, it's a fantastic truck but even with some slight face lifts over the last 12-13 years it's still the same truck at it's core. I laugh at the brakes always being a so-called selling point, they aren't and it needs the large fuel tank when it gets 11-13 mpg's. But in another year we will get the new Tundra and I am sure that it will have a lot of improvements, hopefully fuel economy, interior design/layout, and tech are the main segments.

In regards to the Tacoma, we all know that the 3rd Gen has been the most polarizing and the biggest disappointment yet. I have never heard more bitching about a drive train in recent years as I have about the 3.5L in the Tacoma. There are tons of documented buyers unloading their truck due to their disgust of the motor and tranny alone. It will continue to outsell the Colorado because GM is crap and has never had the market dominance in that segment, Nissan has never had the numbers that Toyota has had here in the states and it doesn't matter until their new Frontier makes it here anyway. That said, if the Ranger isn't a complete bust I am sure that in time it will eclipse the Tacoma in sales once again, sheer volume alone will make sure of it.

I'm not bashing Toyota here, I'm just a realist basing my opinion off of my experiences and those around me. Look at my signature line, both vehicles currently in the driveway are Toyota's. I know what they are and what they aren't and I accept them for that, but I'll never have a full-size Toyota truck over a Ford (at least for the time being) and that's ok for both you and me lol. Maybe one day the Tundra will be the hands down winner, but as of right now I can say confidently that is not the case, at least for the majority of buyers.
 

Jnich77

Expedition Leader
Really? You can't think of ONE example? How about fuel mileage? Tacomas get worse gas mileage than other brands full-size truck lines. Not to mention the screw up with the new transmission in the Tacoma. The Tundra on the other hand is lucky to see 15 mpg while Ford, RAM, and GM are all around the 22 mark with diesel options capable of closer to 30 mpg.

Bingo!!!! My 4 door, fullsize truck uses less fuel than a Tacoma , whilst providing far superior performance and comfort.
 

bkg

Explorer
It's also shocking how Toyota naysayers have to dig back into the archives in order to make their case, which is a very shaky case to begin with.

I guess we should pretend that Ford's 6.4 and 6.0l diesels and early 3.5l ecoboosts didn't have notorious reputations for breakdown's...instead we should lambast Toyota because of a mediocre engine they produced 30 years ago?

Honestly, it's not fleet sales and pricing that drives Ford sales...it's that there will always be people who buy Ford's because they're Ford fans. For the longest time, that mentality prevailed in the car segment as well; people avoided buying the "imports" because they weren't American-made. Eventually, the domestic OEM's screwed up their car offerings so badly that they lost a large portion of their market share to those suspicious "imports."
really? why is it Toyota fans completely dismiss even the other evidence in this very thread???? C'mon... at least try to pretend to be objective.
 
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