Trek Bicycles Powerfly FS Plus e-Assist bikes

Jason911

Adventurer
Had a opportunity to spend a few hours with Trek Bicycle's 2017 Powerfully 8 full suspension plus sized mountain bike - codeveloped with Bosch Industries. Aspects of Trek Bikes superb bicycle geometry aside, the e-assist technology is truly remarkable. Using a planetary gear set and a compact robust high-speed electric motor connected to a powerful lithium ion battery - it made for those long hill ascents over difficult terrain almost seem effortless. Bear in mind you do still have to pedal, and be cognitive about which gear to be in on the rear cassette; it is not a pure electric bike. Four mode settings allow you the rider to choose how much or how little of an e-assist you want versus how much of a battery range you want. Turbo mode will get you a short 22 miles of battery range, at it tops out at 22 mph of e-assist. Any faster than that and its all you; human power makes the rest of the speed. Eco mode, at the other end of the spectrum could offer a 60+ mile range of riding, while providing a limited pedal assist to make those steep ascents less. Sport and Tour mode make up the remaining two modes, and offer equal amounts of differing distance and assistive pedal power.

The question I have is wondering if who the bike is being marketed to is the right demographic? Looking beyond that intended spectrum and perhaps at a older more mature crowd could offer a larger more diverse assortment of potential riders with larger disposable incomes.

https://youtu.be/5C2JYcjlIRc
 

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p nut

butter
I really hope (no-nonsense) regulations get put on these e-bikes. I don't want to see them on the trails. Limit them to motorized trails. No matter how you spin it, it's a motorcycle.
 

Jason911

Adventurer
I really hope (no-nonsense) regulations get put on these e-bikes. I don't want to see them on the trails. Limit them to motorized trails. No matter how you spin it, it's a motorcycle.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but before one formulates that opinion it is important to understand all of the facts associated - so that one can make an informed educated decision.

E-Assist bikes are electric-enhanced bicycles with a compact motor and a small battery. They provide a boost to your own pedal power, so you can ride farther and faster with less effort. Trek e-bikes are quick, with predictable, easy-to-control power and a long-lasting removable battery that recharges at any household outlet. More easily climb up hills. Haul a heavy load. Take the long way home. All the smooth benefiting power of electric pedal-assist. Read that again - you still have to PEDAL. Limited pedal-assist top speed of 22mph: anything beyond that and its all rider. Range is about 65 miles(on the Trek).

Electric motorcycles are plug-in electric vehicles with two or three wheels powered by electricity. The electricity is stored on board in a rechargeable battery, which drives one or more electric motors. Electric motorcycles can achieve top speeds of 100mph and have a range exceeding 130 miles on a single charge. And you as the rider do not pedal.

Big difference between the two when you look at them objectively. And relatively simple to understand the difference.

I really hope that if/when government decides to step in and regulate(tax, usage fees, etc) the e-assist bikes, that they understand both the benefits of the assist-bicycle and do not just lump them into a "electric motorcycle". Because we do not need more government regulations, stipulations and laws to govern us, all on the guise "to make us safer". We need less government, and better educated people to make better educated choices on their own.
 

p nut

butter
... climb up hills. Haul a heavy load. Take the long way home....

Funny. You can do that on a regular bike! Imagine that.

_
Again, spin it how you want. It's a motorized vehicle. Simple as that.
 
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jk_surgeonfish

Observer
Funny. You can do that on a regular bike! Imagine that.

_
Again, spin it how you want. It's a motorized vehicle. Simple as that.

Can you elaborate as to the main reason these would be an issue on trails? If the max speed is 22mph when using electric power I question the need for regulations. I ride MTB and 22mph is easily attainable on most trails. Heck, I have hit 52mph on my MTB. I am also very alert for other trail users and slow to walking pace or stop when I encounter hikers. We share the trails so I make the effort to not make them feel unsafe when I ride. There are already trail rules in place for this.

Just trying to understand your thoughts on this better.

Thanks
 

proper4wd

Expedition Leader
So can I build an electric bicycle with pegs instead of pedals so long as I stay under 22mph?
 

jk_surgeonfish

Observer
How about explaining? What is the main opposition? I'm not arguing either way just trying understand better? Motorcycles are loud, tear up trails extensively in some cases (compared to MTB). Is it just the fact that someone is not pedaling they should be regulated? Is the main opposition the fact that someone who normally would not be riding on a trail now has the ability to do so thus clogging trails up?
 

Jason911

Adventurer
I advocate their use, but perhaps for a different demographic. Whats to say a mature individual wants to go out and ride the trails with his or her grandkids, but perhaps the hips/knees/stamina just isn't what it used to be. Now they have an option to continue their lives with their family, without worrying about any of the above. But because it is deemed a motorized vehicle by one lone dissenter of narrow mind - the bike and therefor the individuals shouldn't be allowed to on trails?
 

Haf-E

Expedition Leader
The only issue with electric bikes is that they can be boosted for high power & speeds. Same with eliminating the need to pedal - eliminate the assist mode - making it into a low powered motorcycle effectively.

I think there will be problems with trail access - similar to when mountain bikes started become popular. I was involved with a battle for access to a local trail system that was eventually shut off from mountain bikes because the local horse riding club didn't want to share the trails and had a lot more influence on the county commissioners. We even showed that there were only about 10 horse riders a week on the trails - while there were 50+ bike riders on each Saturday/Sunday...
 

p nut

butter
Can you elaborate as to the main reason these would be an issue on trails? If the max speed is 22mph when using electric power I question the need for regulations. I ride MTB and 22mph is easily attainable on most trails. Heck, I have hit 52mph on my MTB. I am also very alert for other trail users and slow to walking pace or stop when I encounter hikers. We share the trails so I make the effort to not make them feel unsafe when I ride. There are already trail rules in place for this.

Just trying to understand your thoughts on this better.

Thanks

First, I have no issues on getting people out on bikes. Being out on the trails on 2 wheels is fun, exciting, and a lot of times, humbling. More people on bikes = good thing, right?
_
However, I do have issues with e-bikes. Main concerns (among many) are two fold: Future trail access and safety. There are already too many trails being closed or in jeopardy of being shut down, due to (not-so-smart) mountain bikers causing trouble with hikers, horse-folks, trail damage, etc. It's almost already a losing battle. Now we put motorized bikes into the equation. Ugh. Most of the people I've seen on them are novices, that don't have enough time on a bike to be able to pedal up a mountain on their own. Do you know what a recipe for disaster looks like? Hey, let's give these novices more power! They don't know a thing about trail etiquette, control at speed, but that's ok! Because as Jason911 put it, "better educated people to make better educated choices on their own." Yeah, right. You do know there are already hacks on these e-bikes to make them fully auto (no pedaling) and go much faster than 22mph.
_
Look, I feel for the grandpa with health problems, because I'll probably be there someday. But do I want gramps to be on the same trail with me or my kids, knowing fully well that he may not be physically capable to handle a bike if things go awry? No thanks.
_
I'll change my mind once they become regulated and trails be designated. For now, take them on dirt bike trails (there are plenty!) and OHV roads. Stay off of MTB trails. And get off my lawn.
 

Co-opski

Expedition Leader
well put p-nut.

There is a time and place for eBikes and I do see them as a beneficial transportation tool for society. But for specifically designed and most of the time volunteer maintained by the mountain bike community it is ok to ask that they be restricted to multi-use trails. Until eBike users organize, lobby, build and maintain trails, I would prefer them off non-motorized mtb specific trails (pumptracks, singletrack and downhill).

In town on multi-use non-motorized bike trails and bike lanes, I have a different opinion, that they are fine. In Anchorage I serve on the board of our bike collective, this summer we partnered with the local library, Surly (Bill Trailer) and Yuba Mundo cargo eBikes to build a mobile library powered by an eBike. After it was built we found out that at the time eBikes were not permitted within Anchorage's bike paths and sidewalks. Funny because Segway tours are all over this city in the summer. I believe that this has changed now.

In an urban environment eBikes are an asset to building separated bike lanes and a more bike commuter friendly infrastructure. I look at it as "one-less-car" and that is a good thing.

In regards to the Trek's bike. I like it a lot. The Bosch mid-drive is nice too. I could see this bike ripping fireroads and mountain passes all over the west.
 

p nut

butter
...

In town on multi-use non-motorized bike trails and bike lanes, I have a different opinion, that they are fine. In Anchorage I serve on the board of our bike collective, this summer we partnered with the local library, Surly (Bill Trailer) and Yuba Mundo cargo eBikes to build a mobile library powered by an eBike. After it was built we found out that at the time eBikes were not permitted within Anchorage's bike paths and sidewalks. Funny because Segway tours are all over this city in the summer. I believe that this has changed now.

In an urban environment eBikes are an asset to building separated bike lanes and a more bike commuter friendly infrastructure. I look at it as "one-less-car" and that is a good thing...

While I agree MUT and urban usage is much better, I still think some sort of mandated certification, or at least making the people sit through a basic bicycle safety/law video wouldn't be a bad idea. Just last month, I was driving down a 2-lane road, and I (safely) pass someone on a Specialized Turbo. A little ways down the road, I wait to make a left hand turn, and when I finally get the clear, the guy zooms by me....on the left side! (I'm in the US, BTW). I've never had a cyclist do this, but because of the fact that he's got extra zip from the motor, he felt safe to pass me with a very dangerous maneuver. I just hope nobody gets killed before something is done about these type of bikes.
 

Christophe Noel

Expedition Leader
This debate has been raging for a couple of years. Most of the industry peeps I know don't have any qualms with e-bikes on trails. They don't do any more damage than a regular bike. In fact, hack riders with standard bikes are still the number one killer of trails next to horses. They don't particularly increase the likelihood of negative or harmful trail encounters due to speed.

My only complaint is with people just getting lazy. It's one thing for people to use these bikes to even the fitness scales with other riders. By the way, "mature riders" doesn't mean slow. Does the name Ned Overend ring a bell? Anyway, there are a few people I've seen on the trails who are using e-bikes as an alternative to simply going slower, over shorter distances because they lack fitness. That kinda sucks.
 

mathers420

Observer
I do like them on multi use trails/roads, my wife does not want to put in the hours it would take for her to keep up with me on a bike tour, however with an e-bike she would be able to do that with a minimal amount of training.

I wouldn't have a problem with her using the assist to get up hills and glide easier, but anything with roots and rocks and tight trails would seem to be recipe for disaster.
 

proper4wd

Expedition Leader
no-motorized-vehicles-beyond-this-point-sign-k2-0368.png


It has a *motor*, so its *motorized*. Its not the bike industry that will have a problem with it - its a whole new market $$$$$ for them. Its access that will suffer, because its leverage for groups to use against bicycle recreation. They will just ban anything with wheels now that bicycles have motors.
 

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