Transmission Type

[Saratoga]

Hiya Folks

Well, my background is that I'm on my 3rd LR right now, which is a V8 with automatic transmission (gearbox). The previous two had manual 'boxes. I learnt to drive on a manual (1992) and up until 2 years ago I rarely drove an auto, large or small.

But things change. The company I work for now has most of their fleet using automatics and I've found that it is a lot more relaxing and easier driving them; I can concentrate on other things on the road for example and taking things easy. However, I drive larger vehicles up to about 20,000kg in weight and smooth travel is a priority.

Most of my driving of the auto has been on-road but having read a variety of threads on this forum regarding gearboxes I would like it if you could give your point of view and what your recommendation for gearbox type is for doing on road and off road driving. I've seen lots of posts of users preferring to have a manual gearbox. In the UK I have found the predominance is to have manual gearboxes whilst in the USA it is automatics but it seems that off roads, manuals are liked considerably...

1st LR. 1972 Series 3 Lightweight with 4sp manual gearbox, fairy O/D, 4cyl 2.25 L petrol engine

2nd LR. Range Rover Classic 1984 3.5L V8 with 5sp manual gearbox

3rd LR. Defender 1998 V8 Automatic.

 

[Antichrist]

There weren't many manual gearbox coilers imported to the US, so whether or not people prefer them, most drive autoboxes off-road.
A minority have driven both manual and auto Land Rovers off-road. Of those, some prefer auto, some manual.

The autos perform well off-road, but I prefer manual overall for various reasons.

 

[timmy!!!!!!!]

I have a manual transmission disco back home and an auto that I daily drive. I really like the autobox a lot more than the manual transmssion.

 

[Saratoga]

I'm sure you with the auto's have V8's or other petrol engines attached to them. For me in the UK it is more cost effective to run a diesel Probably a 300 TDI Auto

So Timmy, what sways your opinion towards auto's ?

 

[JackW]

I prefer a manual for various reasons - mostly the lower gear ratio in first gear for descents and a little more control in some situations but I was very impressed with my 3.9 powered 1991 Range Rover with an automatic. It easily went just about anywhere I wanted to go with it and let me concentrate more on my line and wheel placement without having to worry about the gears as much. It was very handy on ascents to put it in second and let the transmission do its job. I haven't driven a diesel automatic Rover but I would assume it would be a great combination. One thing where I think the automatic had the edge over the manual was in situations where wheel spin was a problem. There were quite a few times where the Range Rover walked up over obstacles that manual transmission D-90 and Discovery V-8s had problems with.

 

[Saratoga]

Thanks for that Jack. The only time so far off road that I have seen an auto perform better was when I was tutoring someone for a short sharp hill decent. In the manual he kept trying to drop the clutch but managed it much better in the auto.

But likewise in the last few days I've driven a V8 Defender Auto where the ECU was misbehaving and ended up having my passenger shifting it between N and D while I operated the footbrake, accellerator and ignition key to keep it going.

I know a lot of my colleagues at work run auto cars because it makes like so much easier for them.

There are quite a few off road tricks I have used in the past with manuals to get unstuck that is near impossible to do with an auto but likewise the control with an auto is constant. I'll still keep reading up on what others think too

 

[ipgregory]

I guess it depends on the terrain type to some degree. In the Mud then its hard to pick one over the other as both have good and bad points. Hill descents are going to depend on the gearing and the terrain type again as well as the trans. My D90 Auto is fine on loose surface descents. Maybe a bit faster feet off than a stick would be, but not too bad. Where the Auto really shines for me is in the typical SW US rocky terrain I travel over. An Auto with left foot braking gives much, much greater fine speed control in my opinion. You can go as slow or as fast as you need. I drove sticks for many years back in the UK in the mud. Now I drive an Auto and have no desire to go back. Did take me quite a while to adjust though.

YMMV

Ian

 

[JackW]

ipgregory is right on target with the control that you can obtain using a left foot braking technique with an automatic - especially in rocky terrain its a great benefit. Very steep descents are where the stick shift has a real advantage.

Either gearbox takes a different technique but it basically boils down to personal preference.

 

[UK4X4]

I found rockcrawling etc the auto gave me a soft touch, easier on drive components.

here in the desert an auto is nice as to change its just jam to the floor and faster than to change gear,

But with the manual I have better control and won't overheat or burn up in the soft stuff.

...

Talking rugged overlanding..........I want a manual, as bearings are widely available gears can be welded and filed, clutch's can have the lining replaced.

Basicly more easily repaired in a low tech enviroment.

In 5 auto box repairs in the US and latino land

I had 5 auto box failures shortly after, even using gearbox specialists

in my one self done gearbox rebuild in spain with standard bearings, seals and a borrowed part it went on for another 3 years...

 

[R_Lefebvre]

I think everyone here pretty much nailed it.

If you weren't aware, I have a 2004 Discovery with the 4.6, and it had the Auto.

I loved the auto off-road, and tollerated it on-road. I generally hate autos with a passion. They waste power, and they're always in the wrong gear on the road. But the 4.6 has a decent torque curve, it seemed OK to drive to me. And that's pretty much how it is for me. The only time I accept an auto, is if it's powered by a V8. I hate autos with 4's and V6's. I can normally drive a 5 speed box smoother than an auto.

Off-road, the auto was awesome in the really technical terrain. You never have to worry about stalling. And getting a wheel up on a big rock is easy with left foot braking. I could see why some wouldn't like descents with an auto, but the Hill Descent Control on the D2 really works well. Likewise, I'd hate to have the auto shifting on you when you don't want it, but on the D2 in Manual Mode, it was fantastic. Put the stick in a gear, and it stays there. You want 4th because it's slippery and you want controllable wheel torque? Done. You want it to stay in 1st, no matter what, done.

Then I got some water in the box, and it was finished. The clutches fell apart, and 5000 miles later, I was left stranded somewhere with no warning whatsoever. I had about 5 miles from the first hint of trouble to complete loss of drive. I had started to think the box would be fine, but it wasn't. As UK4x4 stated, hard to repair. Even in a major city. I was looking at $3500 for the box to be rebuilt, plus probably another $1000 for the torque converter, and you should replace the cooler as well. Repairability in the field is pretty bad. I've been in many transmission plants, and it's a clean room environment. A single spec of dust can jam up a solenoid valve. The D2 transmission doesn't have a fill tube or dipstick, which is retarded. It makes field servicability a nightmare.

Not good.

So, I converted it to manual transmission. It was a significant undertaking, but not too bad once you're in to it. All factory parts off the shelf.

Over the road, it's hard to say if it's better. The R380 isn't a great shifter, so you lose time between gears. But once in a gear, it has more power. So, if you downshift before a hill when you're heavily loaded, you'll pull up the hill easier than when the torque converter unlocks and you downshift with the autobox.

Both have their pluses and minuses. Neither is better, just different. The auto shifts much faster and smoother, but you have more chance of being in the right gear with the manual. You can downshift before a corner, and pull out strongly with the manual. Downshift before a hill. Etc.

Off-road, again... different.

There's no question, that in highly technical terrain, the auto is superior. Allowing more control, and frees up more concentration to allow the driver to think about other things other than the clutch pedal. It also frees up the left foot to work the brake. With the manual, I often need to use the handbrake to hold the truck from rolling while I restart the truck and engage the clutch.

But I find in light to moderate terrain, the manual has the advantage. I can just leave it in 1st or 2nd, and with the 4.6, it will just walk over the terrain. I can concentrate on steering around obstacles, and it just chugs along. With the auto, it would often come to a stop on minor obstacles, requiring a bit of gas to bump it over. Not a huge deal, but it makes a difference.

I feel the auto is easier on the rest of the powertrain components than the manual. The driveline clacks around a lot more with the manual.

Shifting between high and low range on the transfer box is much easier with the manual.

 

[Saratoga]

Shifting between high and low range on the transfer box is much easier with the manual.

Thanks for that Rob, and yes, I agree with that. The only time I managed to get from low box to high box whilst moving was in my 1972 Lightweight. I was towing a large load up a hill and started from 2nd low without overdrive and then to 4th low with overdrive and then up into high box 2nd without overdrive. I had a broken tooth on the gearbox in 3rd

My mate in a RR Auto had to actually stop in a layby and struggle to get it back into highbox

But that was quite a post you made and you laid out some worthwhile points.

My use would be the majority of UK use with some continental occasionally. I think so far unless the price of D2s drop I'll end up with a 1997 Discovery 300tdi Auto but if the D2s come down it will be a Discovery 2 TD5 Auto. I don't need it at the moment as my daily driver but I can't always say what is in the future. However, from what you have said about the transmission I think it is worth me going for the auto's. If all else fails I can always put a manual box in there as you did but I would think the vehicle would be due for an upgrade then anyway (I Hope!)

Cheers

 

[ipgregory]

Somethings amiss there then. I shift Low to High whilst rolling on both my D1 Auto, my D1 5spd and my D90 Auto all the time and have done so with all the previous LRs I have owned as well, both Auto and Stick. Only stop briefly if I want to go High to Low and only then because I don't like the crunch....

 

[R_Lefebvre]

No crunch with the 5 speed while moving. Well, if I get it right, which I'm getting better at. Used to get a massive THUNK going low to high, and that's better too. Not sure why exactly.