Toyota 4.0 v6 0w20 oil? Wtf?

Boatbuilder79

Active member
Whatever you want it to mean. ;)
So am I supposed to think that you paid your dues and went through all the required steps to get a piece of paper and a number from your state government that says you can LEAGALLY call yourself an engineer?

A lot of guys who have paid their dues are really protective of the title engineer. It carries a lot of weight and means a lot to their livelihoods.

Are you just a really nice guy and just offering some really valuable insights to everyone on the internet for free?
 

luthj

Engineer In Residence
Yes I am an engineer with a degree. No reason to get upset.

Though unless I am doing work that requires a PE stamp, there is no legal limits on the title engineer Or it's usage that I am aware of.

Generally I find titles are a tiny slice of the picture, especially on the Internet, even more so in a field as broad as engineering. I find it's easier to evaluate the data/arguments separate from the sources credentials.
 

DaveInDenver

Expedition Leader
Yes I am an engineer with a degree. No reason to get upset.

Though unless I am doing work that requires a PE stamp, there is no legal limits on the title engineer Or it's usage that I am aware of.

Generally I find titles are a tiny slice of the picture, especially on the Internet, even more so in a field as broad as engineering. I find it's easier to evaluate the data/arguments separate from the sources credentials.
Actually most state do define the legal term "engineer" to mean someone licensed. If you sell your service to the public as an engineer it is assuming the responsibility as defined in the law, which means you should be stamping drawings and carrying insurance. I'm a licensed Professional Engineer in Colorado even though I've only ever had to stamp side work. But since the FedGov pays a higher rate to someone licensed employers like it.

Legally in most states you do not have to be licensed if you only sell your services to an employer, who is then assuming the liability for your work and can decide if a P.E. is necessary or not. But hanging your shingle out then you generally do have to be licensed.

Now there are many gray areas outside of traditional electrical/civil/structural/mechanical/geotech that people don't get their license (e.g. almost no one in software or microelectronics). But the state Board or state Attorney General could fine them for practicing without a license if they so desired. The gray area is if the consumer generally expects something to be "engineered" or not. When you hire a software engineer to write an app there's really no expectation the person is licensed so it would be a tough legal case to make.

There's been a few cases I've heard of the Board getting an individual or company to drop the "engineering" out because they lacked a license. Usually they just change to "design" or something like that. They are usually doing household stuff. Like telling people their retaining walls or garden sheds were engineered when they weren't stamped, if the sketch was even drawn by someone with an engineering degree.
 
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FordGuy1

Adventurer
This is the main point. Unless a company expects you to only buy the one vehicle you can't ever assume it will last one day beyond the warranty. While they want a reputation of good cars the fact is if most people don't keep a car more than something like 100,000 miles there's no reason they should build one that lasts to 200,000. OTOH they are required (either by market demand or regulation) that the car to get good mileage from mile zero.

So it should be of no surprise to an engineering mind that those are two of your main design variables that go to fitting your curve. If Toyota has done the calculations for what it takes for the population of 1GR-FEs to hit their median and mean targets it's then my individual goal is to do whatever I can to hopefully be a right tail outlier.

In this case following their recommendations to the letter I don't think is going towards that goal. My feeling is 0W20 isn't about finding the right weight for conditions but a blanket spec that gives them the best chance to meet CAFE and its due to their ability to make good engines that they won't seize or wear out too fast.

Perhaps I'll be proved wrong in a decade but I doubt we'll ever have extensive data since the fact is most people don't keep their cars past 11 years and of the ones who do most are probably already questioning the recommendation or won't do the detailed analysis (assuming they even rebuild their own engine at all and not just slap in a reman or used one) to determine if oil weight factored into the demise of their engine.
Your exactly correct. I am definitely not an engineer, but I do run 6 dealerships (parts and service) and certainty deal with all of the stupid **** engineers do all day long.
 

DaveInDenver

Expedition Leader
Your exactly correct. I am definitely not an engineer, but I do run 6 dealerships (parts and service) and certainty deal with all of the stupid **** engineers do all day long.
LOL, I'm not going to throw a fellow engineer under the proverbial 4Runner here. I'll say this, being a degreed and licensed engineer as well as holding AWS welding certs I can honestly say everyone and no one is an idiot.
 

Wallygator

Adventurer
I figure I can't go wrong with what Toyota recommends as they have tested this vehicle way more than I have. If I changed anything (probably won't) to get more piece of mind, or whatever, it would be to change the 0w20 oil at 5,000 miles instead of the recommended 10,000 miles.
 

shade

Well-known member
I figure I can't go wrong with what Toyota recommends as they have tested this vehicle way more than I have. If I changed anything (probably won't) to get more piece of mind, or whatever, it would be to change the 0w20 oil at 5,000 miles instead of the recommended 10,000 miles.
OCI is probably at least as important as the viscosity used when deciding between 0W-20 or 5W-30. Oils wear out and collect enough contamination that 10,000 miles is more than I'm willing to go without having a used oil analysis performed.
 

Wallygator

Adventurer
OCI is probably at least as important as the viscosity used when deciding between 0W-20 or 5W-30. Oils wear out and collect enough contamination that 10,000 miles is more than I'm willing to go without having a used oil analysis performed.
It is a long time especially for us older peeps that were raised on 3000 mile oil changes....but it is the factory recommended interval for my 2016 4Runner and therefore most likely is well within the spec of the oil and it's wear out/contamination point.
 

shade

Well-known member
It is a long time especially for us older peeps that were raised on 3000 mile oil changes....but it is the factory recommended interval for my 2016 4Runner and therefore most likely is well within the spec of the oil and it's wear out/contamination point.
I know 10,000 miles is becoming a new standard, and there's nothing wrong with doing as Toyota recommends. I think the heart of this thread comes down to which Toyota should we believe. :)

I'd do at least one UOA on a 10,000 mile OCI, though.
 

Wallygator

Adventurer
I know 10,000 miles is becoming a new standard, and there's nothing wrong with doing as Toyota recommends. I think the heart of this thread comes down to which Toyota should we believe. :)

I'd do at least one UOA on a 10,000 mile OCI, though.
Yeah I completely understand what you are saying and full disclosure....I have 34200 miles on this thing and this next oil change at 35000 will be the first time I have let it go the whole 10000 miles. I have changed it at 5000 this whole time using factory Toyota 0w20. This current 10000 mile oil is Amsoil OE 0w20. I plan on sending a sample off for analysis just for the heck of it.
 

shade

Well-known member
Yeah I completely understand what you are saying and full disclosure....I have 34200 miles on this thing and this next oil change at 35000 will be the first time I have let it go the whole 10000 miles. I have changed it at 5000 this whole time using factory Toyota 0w20. This current 10000 mile oil is Amsoil OE 0w20. I plan on sending a sample off for analysis just for the heck of it.
What OCI does Amsoil recommend? 25,000 miles?
 

Wallygator

Adventurer
What OCI does Amsoil recommend? 25,000 miles?
With their premium oil they do recommend that change interval with a filter change and oil analysis at 12,500 miles from what I remember. I put the OE version in which recommends changing it on the factory recommended interval. The OE is cheaper than the premium stuff of course. I am having a hard enough time with the 10000 miles let alone try and do 25000 miles. :D:eek:
 

Boatbuilder79

Active member
Your exactly correct. I am definitely not an engineer, but I do run 6 dealerships (parts and service) and certainty deal with all of the stupid **** engineers do all day long.
The engineers have to get their designs past the bean counters and the bureaucrats so they have to pick their battles.

Just be glad that anything gets built and works as well as it does.
 

DaveInDenver

Expedition Leader
With their premium oil they do recommend that change interval with a filter change and oil analysis at 12,500 miles from what I remember. I put the OE version in which recommends changing it on the factory recommended interval. The OE is cheaper than the premium stuff of course. I am having a hard enough time with the 10000 miles let alone try and do 25000 miles. :D:eek:
I'll never get comfortable with a 25k mile interval and I wonder how many people leave their filters on for the whole time not knowing. That's the real problem with it I think. If you leave oil in 10k or 25k or whatever it is I bet you're running with the bypass in the filter open for some of the time. Maybe not at 10k, but that's got to be the limit with any filter that's actually fine enough to filter efficiently for the tolerances we're talking about here, single digit or sub micron.

That's the thing I don't get when people talk about it over on Tacoma World or anywhere like BITOG trying to find the exact moment their oil has become fully used as some sort of hyper mile test. Why do you want to make your particular truck into a lifecycle product test mule?

Let Toyota do that, which they are presumably doing to come up with their recommendations. Then if you're a particular OCD type you take 65% of that so that your routine interval has margin. Plus you're never at risk in case you run long or find yourself doing an emergency tow or some other unexpected thing. I stick to 5k intervals with Mobil1 and a Denso filter and from UOA tests I know there's 2,500 miles easily left in case I need to drive cross country for a funeral and I'm at 4k miles on the oil.

Same reason I never let my fuel tank drop below 1/2. What if Armageddon hits and I need to get 100 miles from town RIGHT NOW? Huh, what are you gonna do then if you didn't fill up last night and gotta wait in line at the Shell?
 

Boatbuilder79

Active member
I think the 0w20 oil spec is kinda like having to spec low flow toilets in a building.

It seems kinda dumb and doesn’t really do much good but it could kinda be sold as being in the best interest of the public and their employer.

And it gets the project past the government so it’s better than not building anything and everybody being unemployed with nothing to drive.
 
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